reply to post by butcherguy
First, why are you so defensive?
Just like I was trying to convey to you that TM could have run because GZ displayed his gun. We know TM wasn't casing house when he ran, if you
listen to the dispatch call GZ says 'he coming to check me out'....so was he casing houses and checking out GZ at the same time. I am basing my
arguments on things we actually know happen. You are basing yours on things that have never been mentioned in this case. TM couldn't be casing
houses, and checking out GZ while circling his car.
GZ could have displayed his gun while TM was getting closer as some sort of warning. We don't know, but we do know TM wasn't casing houses and
casing GZ at the same time, like you propose. And if he was up to no good like you say, then why did he wait so long to run? Why did he approach GZ to
'check him out' .. then run. See that is where my possible scenario works, and yours doesn't. TM wasn't a spirit at that point, he couldn't be
doing so many things at once.
Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun, page 331
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:28 PM by fbluth
reply to post by butcherguy
They don't show what you want them to show. We can discuss TM high school records as soon as we have access to GZ high school records. If TM had a criminal record that could be scrutinize we could do that. But basing you opinion of whether he deserved to die on being suspended from school a few times isn't a very strong argument.
I prefer to look at things that matter, like grown adults being accused of hitting gf's, and police officers, and showing other violence towards woman than to look at a high school transcript of a young person who is learning about life and lessons. But like I said, as soon as GZ high school transcripts become available we can revisit this issue.
They do that to protect juveniles. We have all sorts of laws to protect juveniles. If GZ wanted to use these types of things in his defense he should have killed a legal adult, then no one would have even mentioned HS records.....so I have to wonder, why are you?
They don't show what you want them to show. We can discuss TM high school records as soon as we have access to GZ high school records. If TM had a criminal record that could be scrutinize we could do that. But basing you opinion of whether he deserved to die on being suspended from school a few times isn't a very strong argument.
I prefer to look at things that matter, like grown adults being accused of hitting gf's, and police officers, and showing other violence towards woman than to look at a high school transcript of a young person who is learning about life and lessons. But like I said, as soon as GZ high school transcripts become available we can revisit this issue.
They do that to protect juveniles. We have all sorts of laws to protect juveniles. If GZ wanted to use these types of things in his defense he should have killed a legal adult, then no one would have even mentioned HS records.....so I have to wonder, why are you?
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:31 PM by butcherguy
reply to post by fbluth
Didn't say that I think I know you.
From what I have read so far, I can't really say that I want to.
Your choice of theory to believe in the OJ case tells me a lot about how much facts mean to you. I have read about the idea that Jason did the murders. IMO, it is a whacky theory that has little to back it up in terms of facts. If you believe that is what happened, that simply tells me what facts mean to you... that's all. Human beings are very complex, I would never claim to know you.
But dont think you know me because I know think OJ simpson is innocent of the actual murder and only guilty of covering up, that will do you no good, not in this conversation or any other.
Didn't say that I think I know you.
From what I have read so far, I can't really say that I want to.
Your choice of theory to believe in the OJ case tells me a lot about how much facts mean to you. I have read about the idea that Jason did the murders. IMO, it is a whacky theory that has little to back it up in terms of facts. If you believe that is what happened, that simply tells me what facts mean to you... that's all. Human beings are very complex, I would never claim to know you.
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:35 PM by fbluth
reply to post by Xcathdra
1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. Wrong.
4. Personal attack ... pretentious prig
5. Lies and accusations.
6. I can deem you an unreliable source if I want to. You can't stop me. I think you are an unreliable source. I would never use you as a source. I can say that and it isn't a personal attack.
7. Lies and more accusations tossed my way. Thanks, I caught them.
8. I don't owe you any thing. I will post how I see fit. I am allowed in this coversation just as much as you are. You can try to control the conversation. Ill just stay on topic.
9. Get over it and leave me alone. I didn't bring your name into this conversation, someone else did. I expressed that I don't find you a credible source, I am allowed to do that. I didn't attack you like you claim. You read my response to someone who mentioned you. If you don't like your name being brought up, tell them. I responded to them, not you. So really, get over it. I don't find you the least bit credible AFTER reading all of you posts.
1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. Wrong.
4. Personal attack ... pretentious prig
5. Lies and accusations.
6. I can deem you an unreliable source if I want to. You can't stop me. I think you are an unreliable source. I would never use you as a source. I can say that and it isn't a personal attack.
7. Lies and more accusations tossed my way. Thanks, I caught them.
8. I don't owe you any thing. I will post how I see fit. I am allowed in this coversation just as much as you are. You can try to control the conversation. Ill just stay on topic.
9. Get over it and leave me alone. I didn't bring your name into this conversation, someone else did. I expressed that I don't find you a credible source, I am allowed to do that. I didn't attack you like you claim. You read my response to someone who mentioned you. If you don't like your name being brought up, tell them. I responded to them, not you. So really, get over it. I don't find you the least bit credible AFTER reading all of you posts.
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:35 PM by butcherguy
reply to post by fbluth
If your reading comprehension was better, you might realize that I am not being defensive.
I am making a point of your seeming inability to comprehend what I am attempting to convey to you in my posts.
First, why are you so defensive?
If your reading comprehension was better, you might realize that I am not being defensive.
I am making a point of your seeming inability to comprehend what I am attempting to convey to you in my posts.
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:39 PM by fbluth
reply to post by butcherguy
the feeling is mutual......
your choice of dismissing anything someone told you to believe tells me alot about you, you've been told OJ was guilty and you've bought into....like it or not OJ was acquitted of criminal charges....therefore like it or not, im right. OJ is innocent of murder in the criminal sense......the killer is still out there and his name is jason simpson.
We can end this conversation now, it easy to see you are judgmental and we will never find common ground to have a civil conversation.
Ill be ignoring you from here on out. Take care.
the feeling is mutual......
your choice of dismissing anything someone told you to believe tells me alot about you, you've been told OJ was guilty and you've bought into....like it or not OJ was acquitted of criminal charges....therefore like it or not, im right. OJ is innocent of murder in the criminal sense......the killer is still out there and his name is jason simpson.
We can end this conversation now, it easy to see you are judgmental and we will never find common ground to have a civil conversation.
Ill be ignoring you from here on out. Take care.
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 08:45 PM by fbluth
reply to post by butcherguy
See you have to use language that you think undermines me. It doesn't, it makes anything you say look weak. I can read and comprehend just fine, but people like you that use that as rebuttal can't really hold a conversation or debate. Its a proven debate tactic used by the losing side.
Me asking why you are so defensive is because you post come across as very defensive. If you don't like that I'm sorry, you seem to attack at any thing, It doesn't matter what the point or the issue your first line of defense is attack. That is also a tactic used by the losing side of a debate.
Im sorry you are losing, I know it isn't fun.
See you have to use language that you think undermines me. It doesn't, it makes anything you say look weak. I can read and comprehend just fine, but people like you that use that as rebuttal can't really hold a conversation or debate. Its a proven debate tactic used by the losing side.
Me asking why you are so defensive is because you post come across as very defensive. If you don't like that I'm sorry, you seem to attack at any thing, It doesn't matter what the point or the issue your first line of defense is attack. That is also a tactic used by the losing side of a debate.
Im sorry you are losing, I know it isn't fun.
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 09:07 PM by butcherguy
Originally posted by fbluth
reply to post by butcherguy
the feeling is mutual......
your choice of dismissing anything someone told you to believe tells me alot about you, you've been told OJ was guilty and you've bought into....like it or not OJ was acquitted of criminal charges....therefore like it or not, im right. OJ is innocent of murder in the criminal sense......the killer is still out there and his name is jason simpson.
We can end this conversation now, it easy to see you are judgmental and we will never find common ground to have a civil conversation.
Ill be ignoring you from here on out. Take care.
Thank you so much!
I think that others should take note.
This may be helpful.
reply posted on 12-5-2012 @ 09:20 PM by fbluth
reply to post by Xcathdra
This is all I am going to say to you. I included you in a post because someone used you as a source. I scrutinized that information just as I would if they posted a source as the nbc or fox. It was no different of an analogy. I did not attack you in any way. I said I didn't find you a credible source. I did not bring you into the conversation, but if someone uses you as a source, I am going to take issue with that because I don't find you a credible source from past experience with you. That is how we vet our sources. I, personally, have vetted you not credible. I am sorry that struck a nerve with you, that is just how I feel.
I don't owe you anything just because you ask, I post sources when sources are needed, I don't post sources just because you demand them. I don't answer to you. My background is irrelevant, just like your is. You say you are a police officer, ok, do I have to believe that? No. This is the internet anyone can say anything, I could tell you what my education is and profession, but it would hold no bearing on this conversation. You wouldn't believe me if I told you, just like I don't believe you are a police officer because you say so.
We need no further interaction. I mentioned you because someone else used you as a source, you replied to me in regards to that message. I will ask you to refrain from speaking to me, there really is no point. You have also shown we will never find common ground and frankly, I don't like you based on what I know of you. I don't make it a habit of communicating with people I don't like.
This is all I am going to say to you. I included you in a post because someone used you as a source. I scrutinized that information just as I would if they posted a source as the nbc or fox. It was no different of an analogy. I did not attack you in any way. I said I didn't find you a credible source. I did not bring you into the conversation, but if someone uses you as a source, I am going to take issue with that because I don't find you a credible source from past experience with you. That is how we vet our sources. I, personally, have vetted you not credible. I am sorry that struck a nerve with you, that is just how I feel.
I don't owe you anything just because you ask, I post sources when sources are needed, I don't post sources just because you demand them. I don't answer to you. My background is irrelevant, just like your is. You say you are a police officer, ok, do I have to believe that? No. This is the internet anyone can say anything, I could tell you what my education is and profession, but it would hold no bearing on this conversation. You wouldn't believe me if I told you, just like I don't believe you are a police officer because you say so.
We need no further interaction. I mentioned you because someone else used you as a source, you replied to me in regards to that message. I will ask you to refrain from speaking to me, there really is no point. You have also shown we will never find common ground and frankly, I don't like you based on what I know of you. I don't make it a habit of communicating with people I don't like.
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 08:26 AM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by cdesigns
That's pretty distasteful.
You have to understand though.. if someone can make something to rile people up they will.
Those were probably printed by one skinhead but democrats will have you believing they come free with every new handgun purchase in the U.S.
That's pretty distasteful.
You have to understand though.. if someone can make something to rile people up they will.
Those were probably printed by one skinhead but democrats will have you believing they come free with every new handgun purchase in the U.S.
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 08:30 AM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by fbluth
There is absolutely nothing in your post that meshes with reality. When you read the entire thread maybe you will get an idea. I don't even have to give a decent response because there is so much garbage in your post it's not worth addressing it all.
Just go through your post thought by thought and know now that what you said/thought was wrong.
There is absolutely nothing in your post that meshes with reality. When you read the entire thread maybe you will get an idea. I don't even have to give a decent response because there is so much garbage in your post it's not worth addressing it all.
Just go through your post thought by thought and know now that what you said/thought was wrong.
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 08:35 AM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by conspiracy nut
That is impossible.
You and I both know it. Trayvon had a head start because of GZ being on the phone with the dispatcher. There is NO way the heftier near 30 year old could catch the 17 year old football player that had a head start.
The reason the met again was because Trayvon hid and when GZ passed in front of him TM jumped out and attacked him. It is the most likely scenario.
Also FBluth is clueless thinking that GZ had his gun out. If he had his gun out he would have never gotten jumped in the first place. Who would get that close to someone with a gun? If TM saw a gun, trust me he wouldn't have hid and jumped GZ he WOULD have run home then. Honestly if GZ had shown the gun TM would probably be alive today, instead he thought he was going to take an unarmed guy and ended up shot.
That is impossible.
You and I both know it. Trayvon had a head start because of GZ being on the phone with the dispatcher. There is NO way the heftier near 30 year old could catch the 17 year old football player that had a head start.
The reason the met again was because Trayvon hid and when GZ passed in front of him TM jumped out and attacked him. It is the most likely scenario.
Also FBluth is clueless thinking that GZ had his gun out. If he had his gun out he would have never gotten jumped in the first place. Who would get that close to someone with a gun? If TM saw a gun, trust me he wouldn't have hid and jumped GZ he WOULD have run home then. Honestly if GZ had shown the gun TM would probably be alive today, instead he thought he was going to take an unarmed guy and ended up shot.
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 08:37 AM by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by fbluth
Nothing about your scenario works. I have layed out the most likely scenario based on the FACTS in this thread many times. I will gladly lay it out one more time if you need to learn something (though I assume you have already read it when you were signed into one of your other accounts here).
Nothing about your scenario works. I have layed out the most likely scenario based on the FACTS in this thread many times. I will gladly lay it out one more time if you need to learn something (though I assume you have already read it when you were signed into one of your other accounts here).
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 10:26 AM by fbluth
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
No you haven't. You have completely ignored the witness the inv. mentioned at the bond hearing that seen someone being chased just seconds before the shooting running towards TM house. So what you have done is make up a fantasy. TM did not hide anywhere or ambush anyone. If you want to stay up on this case and have a conversation fine. But all you want to do is make up accusation against TM and me. You haven't even watched the bond hearing, if you had you would know the prosecution has a witness that seen a chase right before the shots.
So.
1. Follow the case or don't talk about it.
2. Quit making up things and passing them off as facts or even possible. Its' not possible Trayvon hid and ambushed, their is a witness that proves this.
3. If you have a problem with me, fine. but don't act like you even know what is going on in this case. You keep pushing the narrative that TM ambushed GZ if you had knew one iota of what was going on in this case then you would know that that is not possible. Since you don't know that, I take that to mean, you really don't anything about this case and base all you opinions on your emotions and fantasy.
4. You don't know what TM saw that night. You don't know if GZ had his gun out. We do no TM didn't ambush anyone. Well those of us following the case and listening know this. You really need to catch up on this case or move on. All you are doing is passing along false information as fact.
No you haven't. You have completely ignored the witness the inv. mentioned at the bond hearing that seen someone being chased just seconds before the shooting running towards TM house. So what you have done is make up a fantasy. TM did not hide anywhere or ambush anyone. If you want to stay up on this case and have a conversation fine. But all you want to do is make up accusation against TM and me. You haven't even watched the bond hearing, if you had you would know the prosecution has a witness that seen a chase right before the shots.
So.
1. Follow the case or don't talk about it.
2. Quit making up things and passing them off as facts or even possible. Its' not possible Trayvon hid and ambushed, their is a witness that proves this.
3. If you have a problem with me, fine. but don't act like you even know what is going on in this case. You keep pushing the narrative that TM ambushed GZ if you had knew one iota of what was going on in this case then you would know that that is not possible. Since you don't know that, I take that to mean, you really don't anything about this case and base all you opinions on your emotions and fantasy.
4. You don't know what TM saw that night. You don't know if GZ had his gun out. We do no TM didn't ambush anyone. Well those of us following the case and listening know this. You really need to catch up on this case or move on. All you are doing is passing along false information as fact.
edit on 13-5-2012 by fbluth because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-5-2012 by fbluth because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 11:22 AM by conspiracy nut
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
how is that the most likely scenario? zimmermans dad, brother and trayvons girlfriend all said zimmerman confronted trayvon. the prosecutors say they have evidence and witnesses that said that zimmerman chased trayvon and at one point trayvon turned around and fought zimmerman in self defense. stand your ground?
how is that the most likely scenario? zimmermans dad, brother and trayvons girlfriend all said zimmerman confronted trayvon. the prosecutors say they have evidence and witnesses that said that zimmerman chased trayvon and at one point trayvon turned around and fought zimmerman in self defense. stand your ground?
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 01:46 PM by popsmayhem
Little update for you guys
the donations are piling in for
both parties, and I say good..
The more money these families get
the less the state of fl will be out
of this whole fiasco..
Donations flood in for families of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman
www.standard.net...
Yes i have donated.
the donations are piling in for
both parties, and I say good..
The more money these families get
the less the state of fl will be out
of this whole fiasco..
Donations flood in for families of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman
The mother of slain Florida teenager Trayvon Martin will be able to take about eight months of paid leave from her county job, thanks to the generosity of county employees.
Sybrina Fulton, who has worked at the Miami-Dade County housing authority for 23 years, collected $40,825 worth of donated vacation time, county records show. The paid time off is in addition to the nearly $100,000 the family raised on wepay.com and at rallies, which will be used to launch a criminal justice advocacy foundation in Trayvon's name.
The donated days are the latest in a mounting fortune in contributions that have amassed on both sides of the controversial case. With websites dedicated to the grieving parents of Trayvon Martin as well as for the man who killed him, and now even his attorney, funds gathered in the wake of the Feb. 26 tragedy promise to reach half a million dollars. Donors continue to reach into their pockets, even as each side criticizes the other's purpose and intent in seeking donations.The goal is to raise $1.5 million
Trayvon's family are not the only ones raising money.
Zimmerman, the man who shot their son, raised $204,000 in just three weeks with a PayPal account posted to a website. He spent about $50,000 before his defense lawyer ever learned of the fund's swelling balance, his attorney, Mark O'Mara, acknowledged.
O'Mara recently created a new fundraising site administered by a former IRS agent and registered with the Florida Division of Consumer Services. He told ABC News that he raised nearly $8,000 in the first few days the site was active.
"I'm not going to be unrealistic to the fact that everyone is seeking donations in relation to this case, including the Trayvon Martin family," O'Mara said at a recent press conference. "It seems as though we have become in this criminal justice system a system where we can ask other people to help us. That's what we are doing."
The fund now also includes the $150,000 balance transferred from the original PayPal account Zimmerman had set up.
www.standard.net...
Yes i have donated.
reply posted on 13-5-2012 @ 03:19 PM by TKDRL
reply to post by Autumnal
Like I said, as long as the crucify zimmerman crowd keeps making stuff up to try and make zimmerman look bad, turnabout is fair play. None of us were there, only two actual eye witnesses came forward. Both stated trayvon was on top beating zimmerman. Other than that, it's all speculation.
If they have some special witness that proved anything near what the prosecution claimed, I doubt the head investigator would have said what he did.....
Like I said, as long as the crucify zimmerman crowd keeps making stuff up to try and make zimmerman look bad, turnabout is fair play. None of us were there, only two actual eye witnesses came forward. Both stated trayvon was on top beating zimmerman. Other than that, it's all speculation.
If they have some special witness that proved anything near what the prosecution claimed, I doubt the head investigator would have said what he did.....
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