Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

I'll ask you again, are we talking about the same timeframe here? When you say Trayvon was out of line, are you referring to the fact that he simply ran away, or are you including the alleged attack in that statement? Because I completely agree with the latter if its true, and completely disagree with the former.

reply to post by solarjetman


It's obviously the same time frame. What is there for you to agree or disagree with. We know what we know and what we don't I said that if you use common sense you can make a more educated determination of what likely happened afterward. We don't know, but some things are more likely than others.

Zimmerman on the phone and the teen runs away and he loses sight of him. He remains on the phone for a minute or so more giving the teen a good headstart. The teen was shot only 70 yards from his dad's/dad's girlfriend's house several minutes later. So what is most likely that Zimmerman ran this football player down and started a fistfight with him despite GZ being armed and then the fight turned and he shot the kid OR that the kid didn't make it home because he stopped and hid and while Zimmerman was walking through the area Trayvon jumped out and started the fight?

It doesn't take a genius. The kid was a football player, had he continued running he would have been home. He was like 15 seconds from his front door and he had several minutes (like 10 or more I think between the call and the shooting, someone can correct that if I am wrong). It is ludicrous to think that Zimmerman caught the kid after losing sight of him and giving him a minute or so head start. As I said we can't prove it, but we can use common sense to determine what makes sense and what doesn't.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
UUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

update

"The first round of discovery documents in the George Zimmerman Case are most likely to be provided to O’Mara Law Group on Monday, May 14. Public release of the of the discovery may be delayed as we may be filing a motion to further redact information, and an opportunity to review the discovery is necessary to determine the applicability of that motion. While we understand the frustration of those who want to view the information as soon as possible, we believe that Mr. Zimmerman’s right to a fair trial, decided by an impartial, unbiased jury is paramount."

I am sure the discovery will shed some
let in zimmermans favor and be able
to put some of these rumors against
him to rest.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

Argh.. Look, I'm not trying to be a smartass, all I am asking is when you said this:

I'll just say.. if it were me and I saw some guy following/watching me my first and natural instinct would be to yell out asking what they wanted and to explain that I was just going home. Not just run, even in fear if it was just one guy and at a distance I know that is how i would respond.

It sounded to me like you were criticizing Trayvon's action when he "just ran"-- in reference to his actions in the timeframe that ends right about when Zimmerman ended his phone call. The confrontation and attack happened AFTER this timeframe, and I am not addressing that here. Whether Trayvon jumped Zimmerman like a punk or he was helplessly murdered after this timeframe I don't care, I still strongly disagree that running away from a stranger following you is an unreasonable action.

reply to post by solarjetman


No.. Zimmerman had undoubtedly been watching him for a while. I am just saying my first instinct would not be to run unless they were running after me. If someone was watching me etc or following/keeping an eye on me, before I decided (for whatever reason he did) to run, I would probably ask them what they were doing and if no answer maybe run. However if he had Zimmerman would probably have asked him what he was doing since he was just watching his neighborhood then TM could explain and it would have been over.

That unnecessary explanation given, all the facts indicate that Trayvon likely committed the only crime that night and likely jumped Zimmerman. Also, no one has ever even considered (despite Trayvon's criminal past) that maybe he WAS up to something. It is possible. What if Zimmerman's suspicions were right on the money?
What if he wasn't wrong in his profiling and was correct to be suspicious in the first place and that is why Trayvon ran? Then he was not only innocent, but correct start to finish and not as stupid as he seems for following.

I am just trying to not be bias against the guy like everyone else. I am shocked that no one will break from their original biased media driven opinion as I did.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

Actually, that explanation was completely necessary, because that's all I was talking about. You keep bringing up the events following that timeframe as if I am somehow criminalizing Zimmerman by calling Trayvon's initial actions a reasonable thing to do. I am in fact completely neutral on my stance-- I refuse to criminalize the man until more facts come out in the trial. I don't have a problem with Zimmerman calling the cops on Trayvon either, because you're right, maybe he WAS up to something bad. However, using EXACTLY THE SAME LOGIC, in Trayvon's eyes maybe Zimmerman was up to something bad. That is the only unbiased stance you can really take here.

You even admitted yourself that you would run if enough alarms went off in your head about the situation. Is it so radical to think for someone else, like a teenager, the alarms might go off a little bit sooner?

I will meet you halfway and say that maybe a handwave acknowledging that he saw Zimmerman and that there's no trouble would have helped. Otherwise, I personally wouldn't engage any more than that (and now that I think about it, not sure Zimmerman would have even heard him on the phone with the windows rolled up and rain outside anyways).

Look what I found on a local gun forum, Paper targets, they are selling it for 1 for $5 and 10 for $30

Originally posted by cdesigns
Look what I found on a local gun forum, Paper targets, they are selling it for 1 for $5 and 10 for $30

They are getting those banned,
why do you think treyvons parents
are having his name copy righted..

So they can make the green off it..

Other then that, it is just a hoodied
piece of paper to shoot out...

They had bin laden ones i shot at
all the time loved them

reply to post by popsmayhem


trayvons parents had his name copyrighted to keep other people from making money off it and to help with their legal bills. the trayvon shooting range paper or whatever you call it was just as senseless as the zimmerman wanted dead shirts. you cant justify either one.

reply to post by popsmayhem


Can't see how they can possibly ban them. They should not have included the skittles and iced tea though, those are trademarked. A generic hoodie image is not.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

trayvons parents had his name copyrighted to keep other people from making money off it and to help with their legal bills. the trayvon shooting range paper or whatever you call it was just as senseless as the zimmerman wanted dead shirts. you cant justify either one.

I agree it is a bit distasteful
i would not feel right shooting
at it knowing what it really
represents, the things people
go through to make dough

Got you guys a source for it.. stay tuned for updates

George Zimmerman's lawyer outraged over Trayvon Martin shooting target hoodie prints

Seller claims they sold out in 2 days

While the seller wouldn't confirm how many printed targets were made or sold, he did say that some were sold to Florida gun dealers.
The attorney for George Zimmerman says he’s disgusted by the Trayvon Martin-inspired targets that recently surfaced for sale on a gun website.

"This is the highest level of disgust and the lowest level of civility," Mark O’Mara told WKMG Local 6, a CNN affiliate in Florida.

Read more: www.nydailynews.com...

‘Trayvon Martin’ gun range targets sold out in two days
www.rawstory.com...

Maybe TM ran in the first place because GZ had his gun out and TM saw it. Why else would TM go from a leisurely walk to an all out run? My guess, and that is what it is, and im sure you all will laugh and point fingers, but my guess is GZ had his weapon out while he was still in the car, he made TM aware of this gun as TM approached walking home and TM ran. There is no other explanation I can think of for TM to go from walking to running for no reason except he was scared of GZ. That is if you believe GZ, maybe TM just walked faster like Dee Dee has said. Either way, TM picked up the pace to 'walking faster' or 'running' by either account, so you have to ask yourself why would TM go from a walk to a run (or walking faster) for no reason?

My reason is I think GZ made his gun visible to TM. There is no evidence to suggest he didn't, so please don't say I'm wrong, or to prove it, or that I'm ridiculous. It's no more ridiculous as a concealed weapon carrying adult with a past history of aggression to police officers and women (gf and former co worker saying he was jekyl and hyde and hurt a woman one night tossing her out of a bar) getting out of his safe vehicle to chase someone who had run from him on a dark rainy night, now is it?

reply to post by fbluth


Yeah?
Well, maybe Zimmerman had a silencer on his weapon and was shooting at him from his truck while he was rolling down the street.
No?
Well then maybe he had a whole crew of his 'racist friends' herding Trayvon to their special predetermined killing location.
No?
Maybe they hunted Trayvon down somewhere else, killed him and wrapped him up in a carpet and hauled him to the location where Zimmerman said the altercation took place. Then Zim called 911, they planted the body, Zim's friends beat him up a little so he could claim that Trayvon jumped him.

Unbelievable?

I have the same amount of evidence for my ideas as you do that Zimmerman had his gun out while still in his vehicle.....None.

We can all imagine things that might have happened.

reply to post by butcherguy


I figured such a ridiculous answer.

Now, if you'd like to stick to evidence around this case, cool. None of you scenarios are possible. My scenario of GZ possibly having his gun out is possible. So if you would like to stick to likely scenarios based on available evidence the cool. If not why bother?

Why did TM run in the first place? I offered my theory, whats yours?

And since the prime witness is dead, the prosecution and jury are going to have to consider such things. They will be weighed and examined. Im sorry you don't like that, but its the way it is. In a jury room they will use the reasonable person standard and they will weigh GZ actions against that of a reasonable person and GZ action that night from the point he exited his vehicle were not that of a reasonable concealed weapon carrying person. They are not, and a jury will agree.

A phrase frequently used in tort and Criminal Law to denote a hypothetical person in society who exercises average care, skill, and judgment in conduct and who serves as a comparative standard for determining liability. The decision whether an accused is guilty of a given offense might involve the application of an objective test in which the conduct of the accused is compared to that of a reasonable person under similar circumstances. In most cases, persons with greater than average skills, or with special duties to society, are held to a higher standard of care. For example, a physician who aids a person in distress is held to a higher standard of care than is an ordinary person

Reasonable Person Legal Def.

reply to post by fbluth

I think many people here are simply refusing to look at this as the COMPLEX issue it is. They can't get beyond the fact that the MSM was twisting the story (which they were)-- they stopped right there, and now believe that anyone who questions a narrative that favors Zimmerman from here on out is a brainwashed zombie. The thing is, I don't think a single person in this thread right now is calling for Zimmerman's head or for a rope, or screaming cold-blooded murderer, any other of the extreme stances out there. No one in this thread is talking about skittles, iced tea and a 12 year old choir boy. The only thing people are doing is continuing their quest for the truth, even if it means revisiting some of our initial beliefs-- that's it.

There are holes in the Trayvon narrative that people are parroting, AND there are holes in Zimmerman's narrative that people are parroting. But my god, I said something negative about Zimmerman, now watch someone call me a Trayvon brainwashed fanboy...

reply to post by solarjetman


I agree. Ill admit that I think GZ is guilty based on all the evidence I have seen so far. But I also admit that if something comes out in discovery that shows me TM somehow did something criminal first I am willing to change my opinion, so far nothing I have seen makes be believe anything but GZ acted very recklessly and it ended up in a horrible serious crime he committed.

But I am willing to consider all possibilities and weigh all of those options and your right, around here if you so much a s question any of GZ words or actions you are automatically attacked as ridiculous, ignorant, buying into media propaganda, all of those things. Ive found it very difficult to even try and have any type of conversation with GZ supporters about this because the first time I challenge anything they can't possibly answer or if they answer honestly then they have to start thinking maybe GZ is guilty of something and they have resolved GZ a national hero who is being railroaded so they can't allow themselves to think rationally about this case. It is pretty frustrating.

Pops I noticed you changed your avatar and signature. Interesting.

I agree. Ill admit that I think GZ is guilty based on all the evidence I have seen so far. But I also admit that if something comes out in discovery that shows me TM somehow did something criminal first I am willing to change my opinion, so far nothing I have seen makes be believe anything but GZ acted very recklessly and it ended up in a horrible serious crime he committed.

But I am willing to consider all possibilities and weigh all of those options and your right, around here if you so much a s question any of GZ words or actions you are automatically attacked as ridiculous, ignorant, buying into media propaganda, all of those things. Ive found it very difficult to even try and have any type of conversation with GZ supporters about this because the first time I challenge anything they can't possibly answer or if they answer honestly then they have to start thinking maybe GZ is guilty of something and they have resolved GZ a national hero who is being railroaded so they can't allow themselves to think rationally about this case. It is pretty frustrating.

That's fine and that's your belief. Others see Trayvon attacking Zimmerman and that's fine too. I personally can see it going either way, and prefer to wait for this new evidence to come out before forming an opinion. Either way, it looks like the prosecution is going to have a hell of a time convicting Zimmerman given some of the laws Xcathdra pointed out.

What I am NOT cool with is when people reduce this to "good vs evil," meaning everything that happened in the entire sequence of events is entirely one person's fault. People deciding whether they like Zimmerman or Trayvon, then blaming absolutely everything on the other guy.

That's precisely what people are doing, and it makes me uneasy at best. Look, if everyone is so caught up on escaping the MSM brainwashing, well guess what, by reducing this to "good vs evil" you are falling RIGHT into their trap. It's not about which side you pick, it's the fact that you even look at this that way and pick a side. That's setting up the groundwork for a race war.

I already know what's coming, so I'll reiterate that I'm NOT saying you can't formulate an opinion on whether Zimmerman was innocent. I'm talking about believing in one guy's innocence like it was your religion, blaming absolutely everything on the other guy, including things many people would do in their situation, and violently attacking anyone who questions your faith.

reply to post by fbluth


interesting theory but remember tray was on the phone w deedee and according to her testimony he made no mention of gz pulling out a gun. prosecutors say they have evidence and witnesses that george chased tray. i believe tray lost gz and gz went running to try and find / catch up to him i.e chased him down.