Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

reply to post by popsmayhem


We don't know that Trayvon was trying to kill Zimmerman, but it does appear that he was beating him up and in a manner that justified his reaction even if it caused the death of the teen.

We don't know, if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman up and yelling for help, as some have suggested, he might have stopped and just been doing what he could until help arrived. Unfortunately for him what he was doing, apparently beating Zimmerman's head off a sidewalk, put a man in legitimate fear for his life (for good reason) and justified him in shooting the teen.

That is the truth and that is what we need.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Your right and wrong at the same time video taped reenactments are not admissible.Most of the reason being that the court feels it can bias a jury. In other words there to stupid to realize the video isnt evidence. However computer reenactments are admissible and i guarantee will see one on how the fight had to occur.But i have my doubts it will get that far.We have prosecutors and major attorneys weighing in on this case.And there making the prosecutor look bad and im sure the judge at the arraignment will have a hard time not dismissing the case at his arraignment.Since in reality the states case is a joke the affidavit looks like it was written by the Martin family.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

We don't know that Trayvon was trying to kill Zimmerman, but it does appear that he was beating him up and in a manner that justified his reaction even if it caused the death of the teen.

We don't know, if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman up and yelling for help, as some have suggested, he might have stopped and just been doing what he could until help arrived. Unfortunately for him what he was doing, apparently beating Zimmerman's head off a sidewalk, put a man in legitimate fear for his life (for good reason) and justified him in shooting the teen.

That is the truth and that is what we need.

edit on 28-4-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Your spending to much time trying to figure out why zimmerman shot him during the fight.He told us why he said Treyvon tried to grab his gun.If they fought over the pistol its self defense because at that point someones getting shot.. According to statements by police, there was still a full magazine in it, meaning after the bullet in the chamber had fired, striking Trayvon, the gun failed to cycle and send a bullet from the magazine to the chamber.This makes it likely something stopped the slide from chambering the next round like say someone grabbing it?

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

sure the judge at the arraignment will have a hard time not dismissing the case at his arraignment.Since in reality the states case is a joke the affidavit looks like it was written by the Martin family. ]

I don't think the judge will
take that chance of life
or limb.. I mean with the mob rule
mentallity around i would no be surprised
he was taken out by a bunch of maniacs
or have the dead bodies added up
to his name if that happened..
went to far already arresting him
and charging cats out the bag
this will be on one man if this is done now..
Judge wont risk his life for this one he is
getting handed the biggest case
of his life.. gona ride the train
the gravy train. Had to pry this
case from the first judges hands,
she had conflict of interest written
all over her.

reply to post by dragonridr


Thats my point though... Reenactment of what? We dont know what transpired from moment of contact to arrival of the police. The physical / forensic evidence will give us an idea, and Zimmermans testimony / statements can fill in the blanks, but its still one sided. At the time of the police "reenactment" there was not autopsy report to factor in either....

So what exactly can be reenacted?

Also, the reenactment that was referenced was apparently done the following day, according to his post, at a time when Zimmerman was not considered a suspect or facing criminal charges. To turn around and then use that information against him.... you see the issue im referring to.

In their zeal to rush Zimmerman to charges and a trial, they have essentially flushed some of the evidence collected down the drain. When you are notifed that the PA is declining to prosecute, that is typically the end of it. Hell I ahve had cases where the PA declined to prosecute. Each time I get a letter and a short reason as to why and thats the end of it.. I move on and so does the PA.

This case though is not typical.. The amount of information leaked from the begining, the political fire storm and manipulation caused by the media and civil rights leaders.. The civil suit and the trademark on Trayvons name...

Personally speaking.. This looks like nothing more than a malicious prosecution based on politics and a need for the state politicians to try and manipulate the situation to blame Zimmerman for the failure in the SYG law.

People argue that no arrest and no charges were a miscarriage of justice....
The PA's actions in charging him with murder 2 and the detectives admission on the stand he couldnt support his statement of Zimmerman attacking Martin and the judge sustaining the PC is in fact a miscarriage of justice.

Evidence is tainted... evidence has been illegally obtained... media manipulation.... a charge without a base.

This case is going to become case law, I guarantee it.

reply to post by popsmayhem


If a Judge / PA is ever found to have filed charges / sustained charges based solely on public opinion that must be the end of their careers. There is a reason we have laws and legal procedures for investigations.

There is a reason that the symbol for our Judicial system was chosen..

Lady Justice holding scales in one hand and a downwards sword in the other all the while blindfolded -


The Blindfold -
Justice is meant to be blind.. It does not take sides, it has no preconceived notions about a person guilt or innocence, it doesnt care if you are white, black, asian, hispanic, martian or klingon.


The Scales -
The scales represent the arguments and evidence... weighing each side of the argument, again blindfolded to prohibit any appearence of impropriety or favortism. The facts in the case must stand on their own weight.


The Sword -
The sword represents justice (punishment if needed)... the fact the sword is turned down is to represent punishment and can only be applied if the scales weigh against a person. Its meant to represent firm but fair, that our judicial system is a forum of last resort. To be non threatening.

Its like the knights of old and the origions of our military salute. Its based on the procedure when 2 knights would come across each other. It was to raise their face shield to denote non hostile actions towards the other person. It slowly continued from there and evolved through the ages (which is one of the reason police officers / law enforcement have a "shield" (badge) on their uniform - its a throwback to those times). After the age of armor and knights the salute was used to show that the person had no weapon in his hand (British palm out).

The PA in this case has chucked several hundred years of US Juris prudence out the window in order to appease people who have absolutely nothing at all to do with this case.

Last I checked it involved Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman... I was not aware that Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson [snipped] were present when it occured. They, like these groups demanding Zimmermans head, need to sit down and shut the hell up.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I agree wholeheartedly.

I still think,that the Presidents "opinion" was the worst thing,that could happen.

That really set the tone,of the media firestorm. Only now,are we seeing Zimmerman,portrayed as a human being.MHO

reply to post by sonnny1


Obamas comments, along with how the media (certain outlets, like MSNBC) is dragging this out, makes me wonder if their is not a game being run under the surface. With all the recent comments from Democrats pushing the race issue in other realms, this incident seemd to convient to have splashed into the news almost a full month after it occured.

For MSNBC to get caught editing the 911 call...

Something else is present....

reply to post by Xcathdra


Sure.

Distraction from the real issues,in this country.Maybe even something more,nefarious.....

Not to take away from the pain,and heartbreak,both family's are dealing with.

I said this,and will stand by it. Those in the media,that called for Zimmerman's head,could have spent that media time,doing something positive. I am 100% sure,that their are other messages,that could have been said. I know if I had that 15 min,I would have asked for people to take some of their free time,and sponsor a child,from a broken home. Imagine the POTUS,using his time for good,instead of polarizing America,a bit more. Thats MHO,of course,but I think its a great Idea.

I believe the plan from the getgo was to cause major rioting, and shove another wedge into the racial divide they have going for them. Anything to keep a majority of people from seeing the financial divide that is being wedged behind the scenes. Get the minds off the raising unemployment, banks tossing people out of their homes. Nothing like race riots and mass chaos to keep people from pointing the finger at those responsible....

reply to post by sonnny1


There was another thread that touched on the topic of race and it revolved around zimmerman and Martin... I said it then and I will say it hear now -

Black people are not criminals...
White people are not criminals...
Asians are not criminals...
Hispanics are not criminals...

People who choose to break the law are criminals... Everything else about them is irrelevent.

The sooner we get on that page the sooner we can end the careers of the professional race dividers in this country.

White... Black.....Asian..... German......South Africa......Vietnam....

We are all human...
We all live on the same planet...
Whether we want to admit it or not, our histories and futures are all intertwined.

Originally posted by TKDRL
I believe the plan from the getgo was to cause major rioting, and shove another wedge into the racial divide they have going for them. Anything to keep a majority of people from seeing the financial divide that is being wedged behind the scenes. Get the minds off the raising unemployment, banks tossing people out of their homes. Nothing like race riots and mass chaos to keep people from pointing the finger at those responsible....

Not to go to far off topic but there has been one other thing I have noticed... Everytime there is a story that gains traction with Obama and his status as a citizen, something major always seems to pop up. Just thought I would throw that out there...

Not to go to far off topic but there has been one other thing I have noticed... Everytime there is a story that gains traction with Obama and his status as a citizen, something major always seems to pop up. Just thought I would throw that out there...

Like the rich don't pay their fair share
and occupy wallstreet. Or Treyvon looks
like my son and a massive rally cry
from loyal supporters an outrage
to cause so much mob rule,
a case where there is maybe at the most MAYBE
evidence of negligent homocide or manslaughter
gets charged up too a 2nd degree murder?

They are buying time, if zimmerman was not
charged with murder RIOT, if zimmerman is found
innocent RIOT. If zimmermans head is not brought
to al and jack first class USPS on a platter in a pretty
tied up box RIOT..

reply to post by pizzanazi75


You aren't allowing yourself to think about this freely. If Zimmerman entered between the two rows of houses further down than where Trayvon entered and then decided to take a DIFFERENT route back to his car he wouldn't have to turn around. He could simply begin walking towards his car while looking around for Trayvon. Then when he passed the position where Trayvon is hiding (maybe between two houses) Trayvon could come out and come up behind him.

You are thinking about it all wrong. Trayvon wouldn't have to get passed him, nor would Zimmerman have to turn around and go back the way he came. He simply takes another route back to his car eventually retracing Trayvon's steps and a hidden Trayvon comes out on him. Time will show that this is the most likely scenario and very probably what happened.

reply to post by dragonridr


I understand that. I wasn't spending too much time. I was just clarifying that we don't know for a fact Trayvon was trying to kill Zimmerman just that Zimmerman was in enough fear and danger to justify the killing.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Yeah.. she threw all of her own actions and the whole case into question when she said they were trying to "get justice for Trayvon." As Dershowitz said though, same thing happened in the Anthony case and they still let it ride. There is a lot of money to be made on this trial by the media and there are a lot of rich white people afraid that black people are gonna riot...

Seriously though this whole thing is questionable and this prosecutor annoys me.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


No you are thinking about it all wrong......we have Zimmermans account from police and his family as to what he told them......he said he turned around to go back to his car.......you can keep saying I don't know what I am talking about, but you can't change what his family and police have said that he said happened.......

Your scenario is complete fantasy that you want to happen....no one, not even Zimmerman, Zimmerman's family, police or anyone else has suggested he took a different route back to his car.......

Keep ignoring everything pointed out to you......par for the course.......

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Yeah, but he didn't say I turned around and retraced my steps. Or if he did how do you know Trayvon wasn't hiding and when he saw the guy turn around to go back he didn't come out and jump him. Here I'll illustrate on the map two different scenarios. The first is yours where he turns around and retraces his steps, the second scenario is based on original proposed paths of the two guys.

In the first is your plan, the purple line is Zimmerman's possible path, when it turns to dots is where he turned around and the brighter green/yellow lines show where Trayvon could have come (from either side) when he saw Zimmerman turn and to head back.


The second one shows what people originally said were Zimmerman and Trayvon's paths, I don't know if they are still valid but this is what was originally suggested. That Zimmerman ran down in front of the houses before going in between. If that was the case he could have walked back towards his car in between the buildings. If he did that then he could have passed Trayvon's hiding place and Trayvon come out behind him. In this one, again Zimmerman's path is purple and Trayvon is the brighter green/yellow. This isn't just based on assumption. Originally this is the paths that were suggested (including sites that drew lines just like mine (excluding Trayvons going off to the sides like mine to show he could have hid).


Now before you go off on one of your insulting tirades about how I don't know anything or understand anything how about you tell me what there supposed paths were, or what you think and I will do them over to fit your idea and show you how Trayvon still, not matter the situation, could have hid and jumped Zimmerman. Or even better you can do them yourself and post them.