Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Treyvon went running, which is why zimmerman got out of his SUV to see what street he went down..

Then why did Zimmerman tell investigators at one point Trayvon circled his car and he was scared? Since when do scared armed men get out of their car to follow someone they are afraid of?

The investigator discusses it here...23:20

Prosecutor - 'Did he, uh, Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant, at one point claim to the police that he was scared because Mr. Martin started circling his car?'

Investigator - 'Yes'

Prosecutor - 'But despite, according to Mr. Zimmerman, he still got out of his car and chased Mr. Martin, correct?'

Investigator - 'He went after him, yes.'

Bond Hearing

Eye witness saw zimmerman screaming for help. That will hold a lot of weight in court.

Eye witness heard someone screaming while 2 people were scuffling on the ground. Eye witness doesn't know for sure who he heard for sure. Police have already told one witness 'No, you didn't hear Trayvon screaming, you heard Zimmerman'.....

EPIC FAIL by Police in Trayvon Martin Investigation

Now if treyvon went running and was so scared of zimmerman why did treyvon not run home which was pretty close to where this all went down.

He was trying to, Zimmerman shot and killed him before he could make it there.

Zimmerman could of never caught up with treyvon unless treyvon wanted him too and ambushed him.

I haven't seen the reports on how fast Zimmerman could do the 100 yard dash yet, have you? What motivation did Trayvon have to ambush him? None. What motivation did Zimmerman have to confront and try to detain Martin? His neighborhood was being burglarized by alleged black males, which is what made Zimmerman suspicious of Trayvon....that was his motivation.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting

Originally posted by Crakeur
The issue of this case is that the guy committed a crime by killing the kid. Whether it was self defense, or not, is up to the jury not me (thank god).

DITTO THAT! I'm soooooo glad I'm not on that jury.
REF: Stand your ground -
Alan Gershowitz discusses 'Stand your Ground'

Dershowitz explained to Beck that if he were a judge, under Stand Your Ground laws, he would undoubtedly throw out the charge of second degree murder but said even if Stand Your Ground were not applicable, Zimmerman could still be legally tried under the lens of self-defense.

Gershowitz says that 'Stand your Ground' is still applicable and that the blood on Zimmermans head is the 'smoking gun' for the Stand Your Ground to apply.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
reply to post by Libertygal

 

The rest of her statement.....

"There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

So what she is saying is that George was racially profiling Trayvon. Do you agree with her?

If you do then there is the civil rights violation case.....not that her testimony means anything....but she seems to confirm what has been accused of him.

His friend Frank Taffe seems to agree with her as well....seems alot of racial profiling was going on in that neighborhood.

I agree with your point. Not sure where something like that will lead, but if you have young black males robbing the neighborhood, and you see someone (before he knew he was a young black male he called 911) acting suspiciously, you want to act pro-actively and call the police. Kind of like the whole thing with 9/11, no? They want us to believe Muslims did it, yet, they refuse to search like-looking people and pick on grannies and toddlers at the airport. Where does PC end and safety begin? It is a tough question.

It was not until later into the 911 call, when asked by the dispatcher for identity information, that Zimmerman realized he was a black male.

As I said in a previous post, perhaps Trayvon was lost and forgot which apartment he was in, as I have no idea how long he had been going to this apartment where his father was staying with his girlfriend. If he simply got confused as to his location, and was looking to be sure he was in the right place before just walking in the door, to Zimmerman, this could have looked "suspicious".

I remember when I moved to a new apartment when I was a teen, when I ventured out the first few times, I not only double, but triple checked I was in the right place before I walked in the door! I imagine, looking back on it, I may have looked "suspicious" to someone had they been observing me. If that was the case in this instance, what a horrible, horrible thing to have happened.

reply to post by FlyersFan


So because someone said his great-grandfather was peruvian-black, now he has gone from white, to hispanic, to black? Thats just ridiculous.

I guess you miss the point. You don't have to be a racist to racially profile someone. His neighbor, who was black, that was quoted was clearly saying he was racially profiling because of recent neighborhood events by alleged black males. Maybe he was a racist, maybe he wasn't. Thats not the point.

reply to post by Libertygal


I agree, I don't think this woman's words will mean much as far as court is concerned. I just think in that neighborhood it seems like it was generally accepted that it was ok to be suspicious of young black males. I agree where do you draw the line. I think Zimmerman drew his line when he called 911, he had a concern, he reported it, and that was all he should have done. I mean he was 'captain' of the neighborhood watch, and was 1 credit short of a degree in criminal justice.....All signs point to he knew better than to follow in the first place....911 shouldn't have even had to tell him 'we don't need you to do that'....all his back training should had already told him that.

Maybe Trayvon was lost. I mean who knows. But if he was lost I don't really think he would look in windows or anything to find the right place to go to.....which has never been reported. But my point being is, if he was lost, Zimmerman being the 'captain' and all could have approached him in a nice manner. I mean whats the saying 'you catch more fly with honey.....'.....or maybe even he could have rolled down his window and offered help. I mean I don't know why so much blame has been put on Trayvon. Don't we teach kids to be scared of men in big SUV following them at night? I mean, Trayvon may have thought he was getting kidnapped.....that goes back to Zimmerman, by all his past training, should have known never to leave the safety of his vehicle. That's how I see it.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
So because someone said his great-grandfather was peruvian-black, now he has gone from white, to hispanic, to black? Thats just ridiculous.

Show me exactly where I said he was just black. Good luck with that.
I posted the fact that he is NOT a doofy fat white guy like the MSM tried to make him into.
His heritage is hispanic/white/black. His heritage is very diverse. That's just a fact.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


I agree with all the points you make. The only thing is, there is still so much we do not know, and won't until the trial. I do agree Zimmerman made some mistakes, though, but not any that should put him away for life. That we *know for certainty*.

I can see how people can wind his mistakes into him pushing Trayvon into the "stand your ground" type defense, but sadly, this is the one thing we will never know, as Trayvon can't speak in his defense.

This leaves us the facts of the case, most of which we do not have, and won't until trial, to work with.

I can disagree that Zimmermans' mistakes should bring him a life sentence, however, because of some points I made in prior posts. Following Trayvon was not illegal, if he did it with the intent to simply keep tabs on him until the police arrived.

As I stated in a post I made, I followed a drunk driver (my husband was actually driving) for quite some time. I saw him do a hit and run, and all the while, just like Zimmerman, I was on the phone with 911. I even lost the call once, and had to call them back.

Never once did someone tell me not to follow.

Never once did it cross my mind to approach or to attempt to detain this person once they stopped their vehicle.

All I did was observe and relay the information. I did not hang up until police were on scene, though.

When they found out I was just a normal citizen, they were shocked. They thought I was an off duty cop, because even the person involved in the hit and run did not report the accident, only onlookers did. The person then failed to appear in court.

Point being, I can identify with some portions of the story, and can see how something innocent can perhaps, on *both* sides, be misconstrued.

I do not think the drunk driver knew I was following him for some time, but when I was pulled over waiting for the police to arrive after he stopped, he did approach my vehicle. I was on the phone with 911 and told them he was approaching me. I was terrified and shaking. He asked me for a jack, because when he hit the car, he flattened his tire. He also asked me who I was on the phone with. Thankfully, moments later, several police cars arrived.

If had had a weapon on me, I can see how I could have overreacted. I was scared to death when he just walked up on me like that, not knowing if he knew I was behind him all along, and not knowing his state of mind other than having watched him for some 10 or so minutes driving like an insane person.

With so many unknowns, we can only guess as to the states of minds of both the people involved, and as I said, we will never hear what was going through Trayvons mind, so we will always have to speculate on that.

reply to post by pizzanazi75

So because someone said his great-grandfather was peruvian-black, now he has gone from white, to hispanic, to black? Thats just ridiculous.

How might we describe President Obama? White, or black?

The fact that it matters is the part that is ridiculous.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
reply to post by Libertygal

 

Don't we teach kids to be scared of men in big SUV following them at night? I mean, Trayvon may have thought he was getting kidnapped.....that goes back to Zimmerman, by all his past training, should have known never to leave the safety of his vehicle. That's how I see it.

Most male kids in high school stopped getting taught of stranger danger a long time ago. Do you also expect HS students to hold their mommy's hand to cross the road?

On Zimmerman's training:

I've had a lot of training and I can't think of any specific training that you would be referring to. (women may be taught differently)

reply to post by pizzanazi75


No, I was suggesting it as a possibility. Do you deny that that is a possibility?

Have you not gotten yet that your entire case is built on there having to have been a huge conspiracy including police, paramedics, witnesses, and now as XCath pointed out to you also the medical examiner?

That is what your argument suggests and that is why we are so confident you are wrong. It is just incredibly unlikely. Every thing you have clung to to support your conspiracy has fallen apart, his wounds being documented were the icing on the cake.
As much as I am not a fan of police, I don't think they sprung up an on site cover up/conspiracy to protect GZ. If you are right (don't sweat it, you aren't) then there would have to be a big conspiracy going on.

So either you concede that you think this is a giant conspiracy or that evidence suggests GZ is innocent of murder.

reply to post by Crakeur


It wouldn't be unheard of for the person that has the upper hand in a fight to also be screaming for help.
People do that all the time. There are lots of cases of women beating attackers up all the time screaming for help. So if Trayvon's voice is the one screaming the case isn't open and shut. He could have hid, jumped Zimmerman, then while beating him (in his mind to save himself) yelled for help so people could get out there, essentially holding what he perceived as an attacker off. However he likely acted prematurely. I do think Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle, between the houses, from the opposite direction Trayvon entered between the houses, not knowing that Trayvon was hiding there. When the kid saw Zimmerman he though he was hunting for him to hurt him, jumped out and attacked him. Zimmerman fearing for his life shot the teen.

This would hurt Zimmerman's case, but it wouldn't rule out self defense. It would make it arguable though.I honestly don't think Zimmerman intended to murder the teen and I do think he shot him while in fear for his own life. He was undeniably being beaten.

I am also not entirely sold on this voice analysis. There is such a disparity between his low near whisper 9/11 call and the background shrieks for help. It is important to know what they compared the yells to. If it was the 9/11 call then I think they were premature and someone should get a sample from Zimmerman for analysis.

reply to post by Crakeur


No.. he followed an innocent teenager from a distance. He shot an attacker. The teen was no longer innocent when he attacked.

I should say if, but all evidence is leaning that way. The shooting, obviously came after or during the attack, the teen was no longer innocent if he was on Zimmerman beating him.

reply to post by Tadeusz


Ha.. the whole reason they charged him with murder 2 was because he would found not guilty. I kinda thought the point was to try to cause riots. Anyone with common sense could see that murder 2 was not intended to stick.

So now Zimmerman is supposed to sacrifice himself at some alter to prevent riots. Do you guys see how god complex that appears?

We know he hit someone, evidence is zimmermans face.
People came running out of the house, and there are witnesses
who were there and zimmerman had NO TIME to injure himself.
So if he did not injure himself then treyvon injured him.
Which means since treyvon injured him and he has no bruises
or marks that zimmerman NEVER PUNCHED OR TOUCHED HIM AT ALL.
If zimmerman never punched treyvon at all then we know that it was treyvon
who instigated the whole thing by putting is hands on zimmerman
It shows that treyvon was on top of zimmerman fighting him.
Lines up with eyewitness testimony, zimmermans testimony,
everything lines up.. No holes in zimmermans story,
which is why he was not charged at first. Why the police chief
wanted to resign, he knows THIS IS WRONG, and public
opinion, mob rule, is NOT the rule of LAW...

Because, with treyvon being on top of zimmerman beating
his face in, would prove treyvon was the agressor
because treyvon was never hit by zimmerman!!

reply to post by FlyersFan


I don't think that applies to stand your ground, but plain old self defense. How can you stand your ground, when your back is on said ground, and you are being pummeled?

You don't need any stand your ground to defend yourself against an attack, unless their is retarded legislation on the books that makes it illegal to defend yourself, and tells you that you must try and run away first. Because showing your back to an attacker is always a wonderful idea. In that case you don't make new crap up to remedy it, you get rid of the retarded laws altogether.

In a sane world at least.....

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread822667/pg290#pid13989583[/url]

 

I don't think that applies to stand your ground, but plain old self defense. How can you stand your ground, when your back is on said ground, and you are being pummeled?

You don't need any stand your ground to defend yourself against an attack, unless their is retarded legislation on the books that makes it illegal to defend yourself, and tells you that you must try and run away first. Because showing your back to an attacker is always a wonderful idea. In that case you don't make new crap up to remedy it, you get rid of the retarded laws altogether.

In a sane world at least.....

edit on Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:01:56 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

The fact that there was a fight and treyvon was on top of zimmerman
and treyvon had no injuries as per say the Funeral director, it shows to me he was not defending
himself but blatantly BEATING someone to a pulp.
In the ambush treyvon did on zimmerman.
No other way zimmerman could of caught up
with a running treyvon, we know he ran, zimmerman went
to see what street he went down, if treyvon would of kept running
home or called 911 this would of never happened, zimmerman
would of never caught up to him.. This is how the ambush
happened. Treyvon did not like the fact zimmerman was checking
him out, which is legal and was zimmermans job as watch captain.
THAT SOMEONE treyvon ambushed
happen to have a gun and they used it in self defense.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
So because someone said his great-grandfather was peruvian-black, now he has gone from white, to hispanic, to black? Thats just ridiculous.

Show me exactly where I said he was just black. Good luck with that.
I posted the fact that he is NOT a doofy fat white guy like the MSM tried to make him into.
His heritage is hispanic/white/black. His heritage is very diverse. That's just a fact.

I haven't seen any pics of his black-peruvian great-grandfather......how do you know its a 'fact'?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

So because someone said his great-grandfather was peruvian-black, now he has gone from white, to hispanic, to black? Thats just ridiculous.

How might we describe President Obama? White, or black?

The fact that it matters is the part that is ridiculous.

You can describe Obama any way you want. I call him black, just like I would call zimmerman white. If I saw Zimmerman how he looked in court and had to describe him, I would have said a 'tan white man'. Now, if I had to describe Zimmerman in his old mug shot I would have said Hispanic. His physical appearance has changed somewhat from the mug shot to now, there is no denying that. Obama has looked like a black man in all the pictures Ive ever seen of him. I haven't seen any pics of Obama where he appeared white. I have seen pics of Zimmerman where he appeared Hispanic as well as White.....which are actually the same thing. There is 'white of hispanic decent' and 'white of european decent, or not of hispanic decent'.....fill out a government application sometime, it breaks it down very nicely.

No the fact that it matters shows that our country has actually not come very far at all in regards concerning race relations.

reply to post by Logmafia

Most male kids in high school stopped getting taught of stranger danger a long time ago.

At what age do you teach your children to stop being afraid of stranger danger. That is one of the stupidest comments I have read in this entire 250+ thread. I guess grown adults who get kidnapped and murdered had no reason to be afraid of stranger danger. That comment was completely ignorant.

If you had read any of my past post, in just the last few pages you would have seen I linked to where Zimmerman has CCW training, he himself invited the SPD to do a neighborhood watch presentation, and he was 1 credit away from a degree in criminal justice. That is all training.

Who do you think is a woman? We all know Zimmerman isn't a woman. I am not a woman. So what exactly is your point with that comment?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

So either you concede that you think this is a giant conspiracy or that evidence suggests GZ is innocent of murder.

I don't know who you think you are, but you don't tell me what to do.

I believe Zimmerman is guilty based on all the evidence available that you choose to ignore. Zimmermans boo boo's don't mean anything for his defense. It means more for Trayvons defense. It shows he was fighting for his life before Zimmerman killed him. That is exactly how a jury will see it. Its called the logical explanation. Just because Trayvon is dead does not mean he wasn't allowed to fight for his life before he was murdered.

Jury's don't like it when grown adults murder unarmed teenagers that are screaming for their life. And they don't like grown men who then lie to try and get out of murder. Jury's also weigh evidence and a bullet hole is much heavier than a boo boo to the nose and head.

So either you concede that you think this is a giant conspiracy or that evidence suggests GZ is GUILTY of murder.