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Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

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posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by conspiracy nut
 


So I guess they should have just skipped the autopsy and repairing the body and gave them the body right away? I am sure Tray's parents would really appreciate that eh? .....




posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


Trust who you want I guess. I trust a medical examiner over a liar, I mean lawyer any day


Ok, then link a copy of the medical examiner report that shows the body was released 39 hours later. I will tell you why you can't do that, because that report hasn't been released to the public.

Which again brings into question....where did the person that wrote the story you linked to get that information?

It was also reported by the Funeral director that he had to go back and forth with the ME to get the body released because it was listed still as a John Doe......it was on Nancy Grace, I believe, Im looking for the clip.

The Martin Lawyers have said it and the Funeral Director said it......maybe they could tell George to release a statement to confirm it.....maybe you will believe it then.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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they could have notified the next of kin and had them identify the body. thats not too much to ask is it?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by conspiracy nut
 


So I guess they should have just skipped the autopsy and repairing the body and gave them the body right away? I am sure Tray's parents would really appreciate that eh? .....


Im interested in the autopsy it will be able to tell the trajectory of the bullet.This will either validate zimmermans story or cause his defense a big headache.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by conspiracy nut
 


So I guess they should have just skipped the autopsy and repairing the body and gave them the body right away? I am sure Tray's parents would really appreciate that eh? .....


How long do you think an autopsy would take on a gunshot wound to the chest?

And how much 'repairing the body' do you think an ME does? They don't do any......

That is what the mortician is for at the funeral home....they do any type of 'repairs to the body' that may be needed to dress them and make the face and hands presentable for an open casket......if they can't make a body look suitable then there is a closed casket. A medical examiner does none of those things.

But the point is still why was he listed as a 'john doe' at all....you should watch the video clips, its explained very well that the police knew by at least 3am or so in the morning who Trayvon was.....unless of course they went back and edited the police report.....which is another argument to be made, but had you watched the videos you would have known that already.


edit on 25-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by conspiracy nut
 

Is it not standard practice in FL, for family to pick out the funeral home? That is how it went in NY. If the medical examiner knew 39 hours later, which funeral home the family wanted, how can the family be claiming that they were in the dark?

The article said according to the medical examiner, that would lead you to believe that they contacted the examiner personally. I believe you can get in a lot of trouble for making up a quote, and claiming it came from someone, if it did not.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


I guess it would depend on the workload, no? Perhaps there was other bodies that came in before Tray's that needed tending to? Also, I thought the ME stitched up the Y in the chest after the autopsy, I could be wrong though.
edit on Wed, 25 Apr 2012 00:19:48 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


Trust who you want I guess. I trust a medical examiner over a liar, I mean lawyer any day


Ok, then link a copy of the medical examiner report that shows the body was released 39 hours later. I will tell you why you can't do that, because that report hasn't been released to the public.

Which again brings into question....where did the person that wrote the story you linked to get that information?

It was also reported by the Funeral director that he had to go back and forth with the ME to get the body released because it was listed still as a John Doe......it was on Nancy Grace, I believe, Im looking for the clip.

The Martin Lawyers have said it and the Funeral Director said it......maybe they could tell George to release a statement to confirm it.....maybe you will believe it then.


Ok lets look at this you think a day and a half is a long time right? But when did the shooting occur? 10 p.m. Feb. 26 a monday night.They notified them they could pick up the body Feb. 28th At 1 p.m. .So assuming they open at 9am and close at 5 or 6p.m. they had one day for the autopsy and a morning to clear the paperwork on the 28th.Doesnt really sound unreasonable does it.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


Actually after spreading open a person for autopsy they do indeed repair the body.In an autopsy they would have had to crack open his chest to check for the path of the bullet so there not going to give him to the funeral home with his chest spread open.

The police wouldn't change the name until they have positive id and that was the next morning with his father.
edit on 4/25/12 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


Trust who you want I guess. I trust a medical examiner over a liar, I mean lawyer any day


Ok, then link a copy of the medical examiner report that shows the body was released 39 hours later. I will tell you why you can't do that, because that report hasn't been released to the public.

Which again brings into question....where did the person that wrote the story you linked to get that information?

It was also reported by the Funeral director that he had to go back and forth with the ME to get the body released because it was listed still as a John Doe......it was on Nancy Grace, I believe, Im looking for the clip.

The Martin Lawyers have said it and the Funeral Director said it......maybe they could tell George to release a statement to confirm it.....maybe you will believe it then.


Ok lets look at this you think a day and a half is a long time right? But when did the shooting occur? 10 p.m. Feb. 26 a monday night.They notified them they could pick up the body Feb. 28th At 1 p.m. .So assuming they open at 9am and close at 5 or 6p.m. they had one day for the autopsy and a morning to clear the paperwork on the 28th.Doesnt really sound unreasonable does it.


Its not the length of how long it was kept that necissarily concerns me. What does is, why was it listed as a 'John Doe' and why did it take 3 days for it to be unlisted as a 'John Doe'.....but yeah, if the shooting happened at 715p, the autopsy should have been done at the last the following after noon.......toxicology may have taken longer but not the autopsy itself. So, yes, 39 is still to long, but what is more concerning is why he was listed as 'john doe' and why he remained that way for 3 day.....I know you don't believe the lawyers, but I do.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


Actually after spreading open a person for autopsy they do indeed repair the body.In an autopsy they would have had to crack open his chest to check for the path of the bullet so there not going to give him to the funeral home with his chest spread open.

The police wouldn't change the name until they have positive id and that was the next morning with his father.
edit on 4/25/12 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)


So how many hours or days do you think it would take to sew up that 'crack' in his chest? It is not being sown to heal....its is being sewn to close.....how long you think that would take?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by dragonridr
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


Actually after spreading open a person for autopsy they do indeed repair the body.In an autopsy they would have had to crack open his chest to check for the path of the bullet so there not going to give him to the funeral home with his chest spread open.

The police wouldn't change the name until they have positive id and that was the next morning with his father.
edit on 4/25/12 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)


So how many hours or days do you think it would take to sew up that 'crack' in his chest? It is not being sown to heal....its is being sewn to close.....how long you think that would take?


If it's a complicated case like a homicide ... it can take many hours -- 4 to 6 hours for the autopsy. its very complicated procedure.ill leave out the gory details.Just keep in mind an ME works 8 hr days like everyone else.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 




I didn't ask how long the autopsy would take. I asked how long you think it would take to sew up the chest they cracked open? You said the release of the body could have been delayed because the autopsy and 'repair' work takes time. Thats why I asked the question and you ignored it.




So how many hours or days do you think it would take to sew up that 'crack' in his chest? It is not being sown to heal....its is being sewn to close.....how long you think that would take?


I know what goes into autopsy and preparing bodies. I didn't ask you anything regarding the details of the autopsy.....focus on the questions.
edit on 25-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)





The police wouldn't change the name until they have positive id and that was the next morning with his father.


Then how do you explain the fact that Trayvons name appears on the partial police report filed at 3am something on the 27th? Either that police report was changed after the fact or they knew who he was....which one is it?

You can watch this clip and hear it being discussed. So did they know who he was or did they change the report?

What time was Trayvon ID?
edit on 25-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


There is proof of that. The reason they couldn't convict her of murder was because there was no evidence of it. There was evidence of other crimes and she would have been convicted. The reason she wasn't was because they didn't charge her with the crimes she would have been proven guilty of.

It is more than just my opinion. There was tons of evidence that she was guilty of negligence, and improperly burying/hiding/whatever a corpse. Also several other crimes. I don't need to argue that here though. If you need to be schooled on that one you can private message me.

I wasn't saying you weren't allowed to but it was the epitome of hypocrisy what you said to the other poster. Also evidence does not point to Zimmerman covering up a crime. I am simply going with what the evidence points to. That is all. I know it hurts your feelings and you take it personally for some reason and I am sorry for that. There is no point in deluding yourself though. Evidence points to a killing in self defense.
edit on 25-4-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


Ok that video starts off with the BS bad quality survailence video debate..... Not a very promising source so far.....
So all this video shows is nothing but the word of the funeral guy. Then again they brought up the bad quality video tape again. There was a photograph that shows his injuries.

Oh now I see, you bitch at me for putting up a source a couple days old, then you put up a source from the day the crappy video was released?

edit on Wed, 25 Apr 2012 02:05:19 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75
You are wrong again. There is always an ID put on a dead body. They still use toe tags. There has to be a physical ID actually attached to a body......for the exact reason you mentioned...computer glitches. Its called being prepared in case of things such as glitches....how would they identify bodies if say there entire computer system failed? Ill tell you how....they look at the toe tag.

The ignorance....I swear.

Ignorance.... wow.... pot.. meet kettle.

Actually you sir are wrong. Not only am I telling you that you are wrong, several people in this thread are telling you you are wrong, Law Enforcement is telling you you are wrong and the State of Florida through their Statutes are sayng you are wrong and the Medical Examiner is telling you you are wrong.

Since you dont agree how about you put your money where your mouth is and back your claims.

* - Please post your source that details proper protocol for law enforcement and the identification, preservation, storage and tagging of a deceased individual.
* - Please provide your source showing where a person cannot be named John Doe.
* - Please show me protocol / policies in terms of whats required for body identification outside of visual observation.

You keep being rude to people.. You call them liars... You dismiss their info while telling them they are wrong yet you have NOT posted anything to support what you are saying.

Just like your failed attempt to tell me I dont know Police Protocol, when in fact I do and I gave those links to you (which apparently you never bothered to read). You continued telling me I dont know procedure and all of my requests for you to provide your sources were never posted / supported / backed up by you.

You have stated you know Police Procedure - Please prove that or quit lying - your choice.

So are you lying now like you did then? Or are you just joining the conversation late and didnt have access to
current information?

Let me clarify for you again just so you understand it this time -

You sir are wrong.

A person can be stored and listed as a John Doe, even if that person has a dirvers license on them. Again learn the difference between a funeral home and a Coronor / Medical Examiner while also learning the difference between a medical autopsy and a forensic autopsy. Please learn the different requirements and burdens placed on each group which directly affects how a body is processed. Please learn the burden of identification for both groups and why one is higher than the other.

A person can be tagged as John Doe.
A person can be entered into the system as John Doe.
A person can be buried as a John Doe.
DNA can be used to identify a person, but only if they are already in the system or if they have family members who can give DNA for familial comparison.

The following tells you that you are wrong -
Florida Statutes Covering Medical examiners
Florida Statutes - M.E. - Disposition of bodies
FLS 406.13 - M.E. Records and Autopsy
FLS - 120.54 Rulemaking

FLS 406.11 - Examinations, investigations, and autopsies.—
FLS - 872.04 - Autopsies; consent required, exception

FL 406.145 - Identification of Body by Law Enforcement
FLS 963.003 - Procedure
Florida Department of Law Enforcement - Commission of Medical Examiners Rules - Procedures and Ethics


Now that you have all the info, please explain to those people you have called liar, ignorant etc how they can be those things when the info above clearly shows you are not only wrong, but have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about.

I look forward to your response.

Lets see if you can actually engage in the conversation and admit you are wrong or will you just simply ingnore this post / all the info contained in the post while launching more personal attacks.. You know the attacks.. It what you do when you cant refute facts and wont admit you are wrong.

If you cant attack the facts, you attack the person and hope no one notices. Please get a new tactic.
edit on 25-4-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by pizzanazi75
How long do you think an autopsy would take on a gunshot wound to the chest?

And how much 'repairing the body' do you think an ME does? They don't do any......


I have never met a person who could be wrong in so many ways, have it pointed out them them that they are wrong, all the while the person ignores the facts and continues to speak as if they know somthing.

Please provide a source that supports your view of what an autopsy is.

i can see from your misinformation that you have no concept of how a forensic autopsy works or whats done to the body prior to it being released as evidence and returned to the family / sent to the funeral home.

You just need to close your mouth now and stop embarrasing yourself.

If you cant attack the facts, you attack the person and hope no one notices.
edit on 25-4-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:11 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


There is proof of that. The reason they couldn't convict her of murder was because there was no evidence of it. There was evidence of other crimes and she would have been convicted. The reason she wasn't was because they didn't charge her with the crimes she would have been proven guilty of.

It is more than just my opinion. There was tons of evidence that she was guilty of negligence, and improperly burying/hiding/whatever a corpse. Also several other crimes. I don't need to argue that here though. If you need to be schooled on that one you can private message me.

I wasn't saying you weren't allowed to but it was the epitome of hypocrisy what you said to the other poster. Also evidence does not point to Zimmerman covering up a crime. I am simply going with what the evidence points to. That is all. I know it hurts your feelings and you take it personally for some reason and I am sorry for that. There is no point in deluding yourself though. Evidence points to a killing in self defense.
edit on 25-4-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)


You still missed the point, as usual.

You couldn't 'school' anyone on either one of these cases. Unless of course you get to that 'school' on the short bus.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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Until the trial starts there is no evidence, no proof, there is nothing but pure speculation.

There is really nothing more to be said about this case until the next court proceeding.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:17 AM
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Maybe you should post a source....ive posted many. If you kept up with conversation you would know I provided sources for my claims...unlike you and others.




Q: How long does it take to perform an autopsy? The time it takes to perform an autopsy depends on the presence and nature of natural disease and/or injury. Autopsies average a couple of hours.





Q: Does an autopsy disfigure or affect the appearance of the body? The basic autopsy involves making a Y-incision (cutting across the midline of the chest and abdomen) and cutting along the top and sides of the head. Although the process sounds disfiguring, autopsy incisions are rarely noticeable after completion of the autopsy if the body is clothed.


About Forensic Pathology




The average autopsy -- including paperwork -- takes approximately four hours to complete. The external examination of the autopsy, which involves both dictation and paperwork, lasts about half an hour. However, the internal examination of an autopsy will last from one to two hours. If the investigation is part of a complex homicide case, the autopsy could take four to six hours to complete.

How long does an autopsy take to complete?

Now would you like to rephrase your statement to me? I know what I am talking about.

To take the words out of your mouth.....


You just need to close your mouth now and stop embarrasing yourself.

If you cant attack the facts, you attack the person and hope no one notices.
edit on 25-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



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