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Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

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posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by LErickson
 


Changing out of a wet and dirty shirt when you have a dry one... What would be the point of staying in a wet shirt? To prove how macho you are or something? The cops are supposed to not let him change into a dry shirt, why? You make the weirdest claims.



Find me one legitimate cop that agrees with you that upon finding a man shooting someone to death, he will be allowed to go and dispose of evidence.
I will wait right here.




posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by LErickson
 


Who said anything about disposing evidence? Are you drunk? Did you even stop to consider that maybe the cops took it and bagged it as evidence?



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by KTATS

I have no idea what you think you are proving with copying and pasting your nonsense. As usual.


You really don't realize just how comical you are to many of us do you?

Almost your entire argument is based around you stating your opinions as facts, constantly dismissing other people when they offer you facts and logical theories and opinions, you go so far as to accuse them of lying, fixate on minor meaningless tidbits that have been explained ad nauseum, Frankly, I'm exhausted for all the people that try to get through to you...

honestly you come off very childish and are so obvious in your bias, if I thought you were a little brighter, I'd question your motives.


I find myself agreeing with your observation, but I think his frustration and maybe those like him, might come from not being able to really put himself in the shoes of Zimmerman (as an innocent man), while it seems very easy to do so for Martin. This is assuming he's actually interested in the truth, many just want to defend their agenda, and they are very easy to spot as they never concede any point even when it's obvious they should.

Experience tends to build a little wisdom, and only a fool or the inexperienced wouldn't consider it. It opens up a lot of possibilities that you just wouldn't have unless you've been through something similar yourself. He's serially dismissed everyone with actual experience that disagrees with him, so I find that very telling.

I believe Trayvon attacked Zimmerman first, I think he was agitated at being followed and decided to do something about it. I don't think he realized Zimmerman was armed or if he did, wanted to somehow surprise him and it didn't work out. I don't believe Zimmerman just shot him for no reason, I just don't. I could be wrong, but based on everything I've seen up til now, that's the way I see it.

All the other events leading up to this and what happened after are debatable as far as who was right or wrong, legal or not, frame of mind, etc. and they are important, but the physical act is a little easier to picture and piece together.

I'll admit It is tiresome trying to just get some straight facts without any spin.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by LErickson
 




Short bus day?


This whole thread is a short bus day,thank you for holding it down sir.

I hope Zimmerman gets locked up, they already gave him bail.

If i shoot someone dead I want bail!



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


How insightful. Bet I know how you vote and feel about gun control without even asking. Just sayin.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by LErickson
 




Short bus day?


This whole thread is a short bus day,thank you for holding it down sir.

I hope Zimmerman gets locked up, they already gave him bail.

If i shoot someone dead I want bail!


EVERYONE deserves a bail
this is still AMERICA!!
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
being arrested is not proof of anything
or a crime... this rhetoric is what is a short bus



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by LErickson
 


Who said anything about disposing evidence? Are you drunk? Did you even stop to consider that maybe the cops took it and bagged it as evidence?




Sure, that is total SOP. Just change your clothes out here in the street, put those in this bag so you are dry when you get to the station. Who cares if it is completely destroying evidence just letting you take it off.

Like I said, find a legit cop to back you up because you are getting sillier.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by Legna
reply to post by Corruption Exposed
 


How insightful. Bet I know how you vote and feel about gun control without even asking. Just sayin.


Gun control ?


Gimmme a break!

Let's let wannabee cops run the streets with guns, and you care about my possible thoughts on gun control, Trayvon should have had a gun. That's how I feel. Stand your ground!
edit on 22-4-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: trayvon



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Treyvon should have had a gun. That's how I feel. Stand your ground!
edit on 22-4-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)


I agree a shoot out and then its over..

like the good ol days... but of course
no one is allowed to do that now..



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by LErickson
 


Who said anything about disposing evidence? Are you drunk? Did you even stop to consider that maybe the cops took it and bagged it as evidence?


I have to wonder just how drunk you and the people that starred you are.
How long do I really have to let this go before you realize how you are stepping on Zimmerman's defense, once again?

What is his "evidence" that he was "attacked?"
John says the guy wearing red was on the bottom.
Who was wearing red?
According to you guys it was Zimmerman because um...
he was wearing a dry red top in the police video.

Want to try again?


He changed out of his wet red coat into his dry read coat.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by LErickson
 




Short bus day?


This whole thread is a short bus day,thank you for holding it down sir.

I hope Zimmerman gets locked up, they already gave him bail.

If i shoot someone dead I want bail!


EVERYONE deserves a bail
this is still AMERICA!!
INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
being arrested is not proof of anything
or a crime... this rhetoric is what is a short bus




Everyone deserves bail?

Your America that you exist in is a deluded illusion.



Really though, I hope you get the help you need.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by LErickson
 


Well it's a good thing I am not involved in the defense then isn't it. Also a good thing you are not involved in the prosecution. We are on a discussion board, speculating. If the case gets dismissed, or he gets a not guilty verdict, will you be able to let it go and move on? Or are you gonna bitch for months, and yell how it was a giant conspiracy?

In the grand scheme of things, this case is really nothing to me. I am not emotionally invested in it. I saw the way the media has played it, and saw the way some people on this board was playing it. It was nothing but trying to play on people's emotions, and nothing to do with facts. That is the only reason I got involved in the discussion at all.

The conspiracy that I saw, was the media smear campaign going on. It started out in the media as "Poor black unarmed kid with some skittles, shot by a racist for walking home!"

They slowly been moving the goalposts back farther and farther, as more evidence comes out that backs up what george said.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by Classified Info
 


no,
Soldier,
and not young.
Would Love to be John Wayne
He had a cool life, but then he died.
edit on 22-4-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by popsmayhem
 


Pops, we are arguing with children,
Like Treyvon they know how to fight,
but do they know how to resolve without conflict?



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Treyvon should have had a gun. That's how I feel. Stand your ground!
edit on 22-4-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)


I agree a shoot out and then its over..

like the good ol days... but of course
no one is allowed to do that now..


is this your attempt at sarcasm? i doubt it, somehow i believe you would like to be in the wild wild west days, maybe you and zimmerman should go move down to mexico where its still lawless. you guys could play super hero cop and profile cartel members down there lol!!!



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by Classified Info
 


no,
Soldier,
and not young.
Would Love to be John Wayne
He had a cool life, but then he died.
edit on 22-4-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)


john wayne much like ted nugent like to act like big gun toting tough guys but they were actually cowards who dodged their respective drafts. so much for patriotic americans.



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:43 AM
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Ive been accused of making things up and not citing my sources for my claims, despite it being very apparent that I have cited every source for every claim I have made and pointed out others flat out lies and misleading statements. In order for people who have made it clear that they know very little and care even less of this case I have typed this up for you to reference. The next time any of you feel the need to accuse me of not citing my sources or for making up claims I will be referring you this post. I have followed this case, I do know what I am talking about.

What we know

1. Zimmerman called non emergency on a ‘suspicious’ guy in the neighborhood who he described as ‘up to no good’ acting weird and reaching for his waist band. He states this person is ‘staring at me’. He says he is in his ‘late teens’. He states he has something in his hand and is checking him out. ‘These a’holes’ always get away. ‘# he’s running’….gets out of car. ‘#ing punks’…are you following him ‘yeah’ … ok we don’t need you to do that. ‘He ran’. He request the officer call him back to find out exact meeting point. This call has been reported to have started at 709 or 711 and some odd seconds. The call lasted a little over 4 minutes ending between 713 and 715 and some odd seconds.
a. George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted

2. Trayvon Martin called his Girlfriend at 712 and that call lasted 4 minutes. Ending at 716p.
a. She reported that Trayvon told her that a man was watching him so he put his hoodie on. She says Trayvon was cornered and ask Zimmerman ‘What are you following me for?’ and the man (Zimmerman) says ‘What are you doing around here?’ She reports she thinks someone pushed Trayvon because his head set fell off and went to the ground and the call ended.
b. Trayvon Martin's Girlfriend Speaks, Discusses Neighborhood-Watch Shooting in Florida

3.The first 911 call came in starting at 7176p and 11 seconds, this are call is made before the gunshots were heard. This call recorded the screams and the gunshots.
a. Trayvon Martin Case 911 Calls Time Stamped part 1 (placed before gunshot)

4. 911 callers report hearing screaming and seeing 2 people ‘wrestling’ on the ground as ‘John’ describes it on his 911 call. Witnesses describe hearing screams, then a gunshot and the screams immediately stopped. Witnesses Mary Cutcher and Selma report that they go outside and ask 3 times ‘what is going on/is everything ok?’….the answer they get back is ‘call the police’. They report seeing Zimmerman straddling Trayvon with both knees on either side of him on his knees and his hands on Trayvons back. 911 caller reports seeing Zimmerman stand up and walk away, this caller reports seeing no visible injuries on Zimmerman from her vantage point.
Neighbor: Trayvon Martin Shooting wasn't self defense

. All 8 911 calls. Johns starts at about 8 minutes.
John also is asked ‘anything else you heard’ he responds ‘um, no, a guy yelling help’……he never mentions he was just outside and saw the two ‘wrestling’….he reports this in his doorway interview when he also changes ‘wrestling’ to ‘beating’. This is also important as to why Zimmerman should have been secured at the scene and not allowed to talk to witnesses. How do we know what Zimmerman may have told ‘john’? John is also the only one who has reported seeing the ‘man in the red jacket’ on the bottom. Is ‘John’ also the person who took the ‘bloody photo’? Is ‘John’ the person that Zimmerman told to ‘call his wife, he just shot someone?
ii. Eyewitness Zimmerman Martin shooting Incident

5. Police arrived on the scene at 717p. It has been reported on the 911 calls that people see someone with a flashlight, they assume that is the police. It was disclosed in the bond hearing that Zimmerman had 2 flashlights on him. A standard size and a keychain size.
6. Rescue service arrives sometime between 717p and 730p because Trayvon was pronounced dead by rescue at 730p. We know a second EMS unit was cancelled prior to arriving. Zimmerman was treated for his non life threatening injuries in the back of a police car and was seen on CCV footage arriving at SPD at 752p without any bandages visible on his face or head, without any blood visible on his clothing.
a. Trayvon Martin Ambulance Audio Recording

7. Zimmerman is question and released even though the lead investigator wanted to charge him that night.
8. Zimmerman has a few scratches on the back of his head.
9. Trayvon has bullet hole in his chest.

Cont. in next post.

edit on 22-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by rebellender
reply to post by popsmayhem
 


Pops, we are arguing with children,
Like Treyvon they know how to fight,
but do they know how to resolve without conflict?


Arguing?

This is a discussion, just because the world doesn't agree with your views don't consider it arguing. Time to get off your mom's teet and grow up, and own up.



Look in the mirror before you call us children son.
edit on 22-4-2012 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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What we don’t know

1. Who made first physical contact?
a. Why this won’t matter.
i. If it is established that Trayvon is screaming for help in the 911 calls Zimmerman will have no defense. Not SYG and not self defense. He will never be able to justify shooting an unarmed teenager in the chest who was screaming for his life. It was mentioned in the bond hearing that the FBI has analyzed the tapes. This could be one reason why the prosecution is so confident in charging 2nd degree murder. A lot of people like to overlook this point, but so far we have 2 expert that have come out and said it is NOT Zimmerman yelling. If Trayvon’s parents, family, friends, have any voice recordings of him I am sure they turned them over to the FBI.
2. Did the police take pictures at the scene?
3. Why didn’t the police drug/alcohol test Zimmerman?
4. Why didn’t the police contact the parents of Trayvon?
5. Why was he listed as a ‘John Doe’ for 3 days after they knew who he was already?
6. Why didn’t the police try to contact Trayvon’s girlfriend?
7. Did the person who took the picture on their cell phone take other pictures? Who is this person? Did they know Zimmerman before the shooting?
8. What exactly Zimmerman has told police in his video taped statements. It has been testified to that his statements do not coincide with the evidence and that he has told several different stories.

several different stories.
Other

1. We also know that several witnesses have come forward claiming the police did not want to talk to them and even put words into their mouth. Such as the witness who says that she heard the boy screaming and the cops told her ‘no, it was Zimmerman screaming’ and the mother of the 13 year old boy saying that the investigators gave her son choices of the color of clothing Zimmerman may have been wearing and her statement in her living room from the lead investigator that this was not self defense. We also have the statements that the state attorney came to Sanford the night of the shooting and made the decision not to charge. We have the fact that the SPD did not contact the parents, that they kept his body listed as a ‘John Doe’ for 3 days. We know the SPD did not try and contact the girlfriend on the phone with Trayvon.
a. EPIC FAIL by Police in Trayvon Martin Investigation
c. Trayvon Martin Witness: Sanford Police "Blew Us Off" in Teen Death
e. Trayvon Martin Case Mother Of A 13-Year Old Witness Speaking Out In This Al Sharpton Interview
g. Martin Family Attorney on Evidence Against Zimmerman & the Attacks on the Memory of Trayvon

2. According to Zimmerman’s father his son got out of his SUV walked down the sidewalk that connects Twin Lakes to Retreatview Circle. His father reports he is looking for an address to give police. His father states that Zimmerman is walking back to his SUV when he come to the connecting sidewalk that runs between the 2 buildings, one on Retreatview Circle and the other on Twin Lakes. His father states that Trayvon came up to Zimmerman and asked ‘Do you have a problem?’ His son replies ‘No, I don’t have a problem’ Trayvon replies ‘Well you do now’ and punches Zimmerman in the nose and gets him to the ground and starts beating his head in the ground. This, according to Zimmermann’s account to his father all took place at the ‘T’ of the sidewalks, however Trayvon’s body was found 2-3 town houses deep down the middle sidewalk.
a. George Zimmerman's Father Speaks Out On All The Hate His Son Is Getting
c. George Zimmerman's Father - Full Interview on Trayvon Martin Shooting - Sean Hannity -- 4-4-12

3. According to Zimmerman brother’s account of what Zimmerman told him he never followed or chased Trayvon. This was in his first interview with Piers Morgan. He says that Zimmerman had to move his head to stop it from being beat on the concrete one last time so he ‘didn’t end up in diapers being spoon fed by his brother’…..so If Zimmerman didn’t chase or follow anyone how did Trayvon’s body end up 2-3 houses deep in back yards of a row of town houses? How did he just move his head off of the sidewalk when the position of Trayvon’s body says that they were at least 4 feet or so from the concrete sidewalk in a position with their feet towards the sidewalk, not their heads.
a. George Zimmerman's brother 'George didn't chase anyone

Cont. in next post.

edit on 22-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 22 2012 @ 11:50 AM
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c. Zimmerman's brother gives account
e. Trayvon Martin's Reported Body Location 1

4. We know from previous news reports and family accounts and from the bond hearing that Zimmerman has told several different stories. He has said that he was attacked from behind while going back to his truck. He has said that words were exchanged and the he was struck. He has said that Trayvon circled the car and made him scared before he ever got out to follow him. These are just several that have come out that we know of. There could be more in the taped interviews with Zimmerman as was eluded to in the bond hearing.
a. Trayvon Martin Lynching: Lawrence O'Donnell Challenges Orlando Sentinel Report
c. Bond Hearing – 23:30 – circled car

I am sure there are a few things I am missing and I am sure a few of you will try to point it and then try to confuse and muddle the waters. I fully expect it. If you have any valid claims to offer with sources I will entertain them, if you just want to accuse me of taking sides, being biased, calling you names, typos, making things up, etc…..you can just move on. I wont respond to any of that nonsense.

If I have missed something valid and factual that should have been added feel free to let me know.


edit on 22-4-2012 by pizzanazi75 because: (no reason given)



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