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Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

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posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


He ran inside and locked the door. That tells you he first went outside to see what the ruckus was about. When he saw the ruckus was some hooded psycho beating another guy up, he ran to call for help. Maybe if he had a gun, he woulda shot him instead,




posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary
reply to post by spacedog1973
 


I think you need to learn how the justice system works. He does not need to prove he feared for his life, the prosecution, if there is even a trial need to prove he did not. Innocent until proven guilty in the court of law in this country.


I think you completly misunderstand the justice system. A man killing someone on the street in front of a police oifficer and hundred witnesses is likewise innocent until proved guilty.

However, in self defense cases, the defendant will claim they used the right of self defense. This is defined as I have mentioned it. Proportionality.

If you cannot defend this position, then you will not meet the definition of the law. This is a little like expecting yourself to be found not guilty for the murder by walking into court with a innocent until proven guilty status.

In other words, he needs a defense. Perhaps you should read up on self defense laws.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary
reply to post by spacedog1973
 


Around here you get made fun of as a sissy if you try that wrestling around stuff. And hitting while someone is down is frowned upon, if there are bystanders, they will intervene at that point.


Most trained fighters are not sissys by any standard and they routinely take their fights to the ground where they are more easily subdued. I suggest you watch some mixed martial arts, or take a few classes. They spend the majority of the time on floor work. And these are the toughest people you are ever likely to meet.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by spacedog1973
 


He does walk into court with the status of innocent. It is up to the prosecutor to convince the jury otherwise, if he cannot convince the jury beyond a shadow of a doubt, they must aquit. That is exactly how the criminal law system works. What are they teaching people in schools these days?



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary
reply to post by GhettoRice
 


These two only saw the aftermath:

This one didn't see a thing, she just heard some voices, and made some assumptions.


This one however, actually saw trayvon on top of zimmerman, beating him up.


Correction. The night of the killing 'john' saw 2 people 'wrestling'......he changed it to beating in the doorway interview......john is not a reliable witness.....he high tailed it into his house, locked the door and ran upstairs to get the phone....I think John was to scared/in shock to recollect clearly what he saw.....unless of course those gaps were filled into him by the police.

John - I saw 2 people wrestling and one yelling for help.
Police - Oh you mean the guy on bottom in red, was screaming for help.
John - Well I don't know I just heard a yell for help.
Police - Well since this man in red is the only one alive it must have been him yelling for help, right John?
John - Right. Yes sir.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by spacedog1973
 


Only certain fighters fight that way in MMA, there are plenty of guys that would rather stand up and go toe to toe. Around here, you will be called a sissy, if you try to grab on or take it to the ground. Guess it must be a cultural thing.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


That's conjecture, and quite dishonest. Every time someone says something that don't fit into your view, you are gonna say the cops pushed them into it?

Here is another theory. The girl that saw nothing, but only heard it, thought it was trayvon screaming. They found out from the other witnesses, that it was in fact zimmerman screaming. They told the girl that to ease her mind, rather than to commit a huge coverup conspiracy? They were trying to ease her mind sound a lot more plausible than all the cops trying to cover up for zimmerman.
edit on 8-4-2012 by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Say a cop is following you, checking you out
as you walk down the road, the cop then
comes over to you and says hey what are you doing?
Go swing on that cop, get on top of him and start
pounding his face in and see how fast he shoots you.
Even if the cop hit you first you better just stand down
because if you then get on top of him and start pounding
his face in he will and has every right to shoot you then in self defense
in fear for his life...



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary
reply to post by spacedog1973
 


He does walk into court with the status of innocent. It is up to the prosecutor to convince the jury otherwise, if he cannot convince the jury beyond a shadow of a doubt, they must aquit. That is exactly how the criminal law system works. What are they teaching people in schools these days?


Grow up.

Self defense is the most common defense that people use in homnicide. If you don't understand that when you claim a law as your defense you need to show that you comply with it, I really can't help you.

I think you have not been in any fights and have not been to any court. If you think that the status of not guilty until proven innocent will protect you from not having to prove that you meet the critera for self defense you are either plain naive or just idiotic.

Its the sign of immaturity when you are fixated on semantics, rather than reality. And this is the second time your immaturity has risen when speaking to you.Go and see how self defense cases are used in a real court, not the internet. See how long and how foolish a defense comprised of 'not guilty' will last.

I think you are the only person here, who doesn't understand the reason why Zimmerman';s whole team has been trying to justify his actions in the court of public opinion. Because this is exactly how he will need to process his defense in a court.

Are you still at school? Honest question



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


He ran inside and locked the door. That tells you he first went outside to see what the ruckus was about. When he saw the ruckus was some hooded psycho beating another guy up, he ran to call for help. Maybe if he had a gun, he woulda shot him instead,


Still didn't answer my question of how does he know its Zimmerman yelling for help? How could he identify a red jacket when Trayvon was supposedly on top him, in the grass....in the DARK.....I mean you sure give a lot of credit to john that you discount in others.....John surely saw something, I will stick with his 911 call and believe he saw 2 people wrestling and isn't sure of much else beyond that. For him to claim for SURE zimmerman was yelling I have a problem with, unless of course they are friendly neighbors and already knew each other before this incident....if that came to light I wouldn't believe a work he said



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary
reply to post by spacedog1973
 


Only certain fighters fight that way in MMA, there are plenty of guys that would rather stand up and go toe to toe. Around here, you will be called a sissy, if you try to grab on or take it to the ground. Guess it must be a cultural thing.


I don't watch MMA I just train in it and have done for the last 3 odd years.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem
Say a cop is following you, checking you out
as you walk down the road, the cop then
comes over to you and says hey what are you doing?
Go swing on that cop, get on top of him and start
pounding his face in and see how fast he shoots you.
Even if the cop hit you first you better just stand down
because if you then get on top of him and start pounding
his face in he will and has every right to shoot you then in self defense
in fear for his life...


Zimmerman couldn't be a cop even at 28. Its a poor comparison.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by GhettoRice
 


Doesn't matter in your eyes though.
It's the guys life. If he thinks for a second that his life might be about to end and all that implies. If he has a second of fear of the extinguishing of his existence than he is justified to do whatever it takes to prevent that from happening.

I do not believe that Trayvon was afraid. I would even suggest that he knew why the guy was watching him, but that is just my own speculation. He did in fact have time to make it to his home 70 yards away. He never had to come into contact with Zimmerman. The moment he lost Zimmerman he shouldn't have been found again and I find it impossible to believe that Zimmerman could catch up with this lean, football playing high schooler.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by spacedog1973
 


If growing up means I have to accept some twisted version of courts, where you have to prove yourself innocent, then no thanks.

And for the record, no, I am not still in school. I will take that as a compliment



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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Who won this thread?



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by spacedog1973
 



A person claiming self-defense must prove at trial that the self-defense was justified. Generally a person may use reasonable force when it appears reasonably necessary to prevent an impending injury. A person using force in self-defense should use only so much force as is required to repel the attack. Nondeadly force can be used to repel either a nondeadly attack or a deadly attack. Deadly force may be used to fend off an attacker who is using deadly force but may not be used to repel an attacker who is not using deadly force



A person who is the initial aggressor in a physical encounter may be able to claim self-defense if the tables turn in the course of the fight. Generally a person who was the aggressor may use nondeadly force if the victim resumes fighting after the original fight ended..



These are the key issues in this case. The first was clear beforehand.

Self defense summary



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary
reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


That's conjecture, and quite dishonest. Every time someone says something that don't fit into your view, you are gonna say the cops pushed them into it?

Here is another theory. The girl that saw nothing, but only heard it, thought it was trayvon screaming. They found out from the other witnesses, that it was in fact zimmerman screaming. They told the girl that to ease her mind, rather than to commit a huge coverup conspiracy? They were trying to ease her mind sound a lot more plausible than all the cops trying to cover up for zimmerman.
edit on 8-4-2012 by cyb3rR3v0luti0nary because: (no reason given)


It is not dishonest at all. I will say the cops pushed them into when it appears the cops have put words in other witness accounts. The witnesses said that not me. The cops are proving they didn't take this 'investigation'' serious in the beginning.....don't shot the messenger .... pun very much intended.

They didn't find out from other witness it was Zimmerman screaming. Only witness that says they heard Zimmerman is yelling was 'John'....find me another one that says it was Zimmerman yelling.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


One guy had a hoodie on, the other guy didn't. The silhouette of a guy wearing a hoodie is way different than someone wearing a jacket. Maybe that is how how could tell?



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by pizzanazi75
 


There was a kid that said it as well. But his mother retracted it. Could it have been she was scared of retaliation against her son from the angry mobs? That's just as much a possibility as the cops trying to convince him and take part in a big coverup.



posted on Apr, 8 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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Its the sign of immaturity when you are fixated on semantics


Are you thinking more in terms of the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law?




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