Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

reply to post by TKDRL


And if he truly was defending himself, then he's good to go. That's the question--was he? Some people don't believe he was and some people do. I just don't see how you can instigate a situation and then claim self defense. We'll have to wait and see what else comes about.

Originally posted by SeriousIndividual
The police report claims Zimmerman said he was calling out for help, but nobody came to his aid. Now why would he admit that right away to the police if it wasn't true. He had no idea someone was recording audio nearby and we know on that audio you can hear someone yelling "Help" so how on Earth would it make any sense to come the conclusion the person yelling "help" on the audio is Martin? Do you really think Zimmerman knew the audio of the fight was somewhat being recorded? Do you think he had some sort of master plan to get away with murder? He's just some overly concerned guy. Clearly the person on the audio is Zimmerman yelling "help". The only witnesses to the incident point to Zimmerman's story as they say he appeared to be losing the fight. The voice on the audio does sound somewhat like a teenager, but if you listen to the 9/11 call from Zimmerman then you'll notice his voice isn't very deep at all. It's actually somewhat high. The voice yelling "help" on the audio definitely could be his and the evidence points to it being his.

edit on 2-4-2012 by SeriousIndividual because: (no reason given)

All speculation. The fact is that several forensic voice analyses have concluded that it is very unlikely that Zimmerman was the one calling for help on the tape. One does not need to provide a motive to conclude that the evidence is inconsistent with a statement that person made. Using the argument that "it sounds like to me that it.." goes nowhere because it is a totally subjective evaluation and, as we are seeing, many claim it sounds like Martin and many claims that is sounds like Zimmerman.

Now you state there is evidence that the voice is Zimmerman's. Could you please share that.

Originally posted by CoherentlyConfused
reply to post by TKDRL

 

And if he truly was defending himself, then he's good to go. That's the question--was he? Some people don't believe he was and some people do. I just don't see how you can instigate a situation and then claim self defense. We'll have to wait and see what else comes about.

If you allow every wanna-be cop to chase after people it will eventually backfire

If you think about it, I don't understand how "stand your ground" could be interpreted as "chase after people because you believe they're suspicious". Zimmerman started this whole thing, and who knows, if some dude chases after me (sry, I mean "follow") in the dark, things would have probably turned ugly too.

reply to post by CoherentlyConfused


It doesn't mater if he was defending him self, the fact of the matter is, is that Zimmerman thought trayvon was guilty of something ( which he never was ), and because of that, he ended up killing a kid, If all trayvon was doing was going to the store and coming back, then obviously George Zimmerman provoked the whole thing, he was the adult in the situation and he handled it all wrong, he obviously has mental issues.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by metamagic
The doubt in my mind that needs to be explored are the points at which Zimmerman's statements do not jive with the evidence. For example he said he was screaming help but the forensic analysis suggests that it was not him doing the screaming. Zimmerman's claims are the only thing we have that we can subject to that sort of scrutiny.

No argument here.

I just read the FBI is now investigating.

I think I need to apologize, I misread your first reply to me and thought you were trying to explain away the need to investigate.. my bad.

Originally posted by metamagic

Originally posted by cdesigns
This is for you who say Zimmerman didnt have any injuries, WHY the police officer is looking behind his head? that particular granny video might not show his injury but the police is clearly looking at something behind his head. The injuries were reported on the police report and on the EMT records.

DEAL WITH IT

(1) It's quite a jump of illogic to assume that because a police officer is looking behind Zimmerman's head to assuming there is an injury there. If I told you I had a gold bar in my briefcase and you looked, your looking would not be proof that there was a gold bar there. In fact to me it looks like the police officer is shaking his head "no" after looking.

This does not prove or disprove anything, what would be conclusive is a medical report or affidavit from either the EMTs who treated him or the hospital he claims to have been treated at. Which brings us to...

(2) I have yet to find any reference to an EMT report anywhere. What I do find are references to a call between EMT and dispatchers that cancel a second ambulance. It is true that we do have the police report, but there is no evidence the police did an examination or followed protocols when there is blood. What would settle it once and for all is either the medical report or a statement that one was not filed because there was no injuries. Since you say there is one, then please help settle this by providing a reference to it. Thank you.

Oh really? Read the police report we have had for over a week
use the search function and you will find in this thread anything
and everything

Originally posted by metamagic


I think I need to apologize, I misread your first reply to me and thought you were trying to explain away the need to investigate.. my bad.

I'm on your side. I agree with everything you've presented.

reply to post by trag3dy

That's the way I see it. An adult with a gun and a large vehicle chasing a minor at night...and he wants to claim self defense? It's ludicrous to me.

Stand your ground is an even more insane defense.

Originally posted by trag3dy
reply to post by CoherentlyConfused

 

It doesn't mater if he was defending him self, the fact of the matter is, is that Zimmerman thought trayvon was guilty of something ( which he never was ), and because of that, he ended up killing a kid, If all trayvon was doing was going to the store and coming back, then obviously George Zimmerman provoked the whole thing, he was the adult in the situation and he handled it all wrong, he obviously has mental issues.

Does not make him a murderer or make him guilty
of not acting in self defense.
Treyvon was almost 18 a legal adult
17 year old is a child? Well so is a 60 year old a child of someone
You can be tried as an adult at 12 years old

"I saw two men on the ground, one on top of the other. I felt they were scuffling and I heard gunshots which to me were more like pops," he said in an interview broadcast on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, his voice disguised to protect his identity. "I don't know if was an echo but it definitely made more than one pop. "After the larger man got off there was a boy, obviously now dead, on the ground facing down.

Link here


New witness account describes how Zimmerman had Trayvon Martin pinned on the ground when he shot him....

this contradicts the previous witness, Zimmermans FATHER

reply to post by popsmayhem


Yeah, you can be tried as an adult at 14 or whatever, but too bad trayvon wasnt the perpetrator in this case, he was the victim, a 17 year old teenaged victim, hes a kid no matter what you say, and george killed him for something he provoked.

a couple of things i would like to point out and clear up.


1. the second ambulance was called off. Ok, why was that? they had one (allegedly) injured person and one dead person. Why would they need 2 ambulances. That would require one ambulance and one coroner. So the calling off of the second ambulance is not even remotely evidence of anything so stop bringing that up.

2. Mr.Zimmerman was arrested. He was not charged, but he was arrested. If you are handcuffed and detained, you are arrested. If you can not leave of your free will you have been arrested. Now the police have 24 to 48 hours depending on local and state laws to be charged or released.

3. the fact that the lead investigator wanted him charged means that he was doing his job. The investigator always wants to arrest and charge a suspect. That makes the case closed quickly and makes his/her numbers look good.

4. the fact that the State attorney declined to press charges shows that the amount of evidence present was not sufficient to disprove the suspects statement. To break it down for the thick heads around here, there was not enough evidence to secure a warrant on murder or manslaughter charges.

5. People keep mentioning if a large man was following you with a gun you would have been scared. ok, great, I see your point. But it was dark, Mr Martin had no way of seeing the gun. He did not know that Mr.Zimmerman was armed, unless Mr Zimmerman brandished the firearm. If that is the case, then Mr .Zimmerman would have been charged with the crime of brandishing a firearm and if I am correct Assault. Assault if I am not mistaken is the threat to use force or violence against another person. If that was the case, then Mr.Zimmerman is guilty as he started the altercation. If however, he did not brandish the weapon, and was indeed on his way back to the vehicle, that confrontation is now over, if, Mr.Martin then proceeded to follow him to the sidewalk or wherever and begin a physical altercation, that make Mr.Martin the legally responsible aggressor.


now, that being said, what we are left with is a bunch of hearsay and contradicting eye witness statements. I believe this case should go to a grand jury and ALL of the evidence, police video, 911 recordings, etc be presented, which I am sure it will. If the evidence does show that Mr. Martin was shot in the back, then Mr.Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter and sentenced to prison. Bear in mind, that murder is premeditated, they would have to prove he had the intent from the beginning of the scenario to kill Mr.Martin. So the charge would be manslaughter. If the evidence supports the statement of Mr.Zimmerman, then well, Mr.Zimmerman is innocent and alot of people owe him a lot of apologies.

An article pointing out a few of
the lies the media has been making
up and feeding to people keeping
this story so filled with BS and people
are point to what the media has said
as *evidence* against zimmerman
when this is not evidence of anything
but a media spin making zimmerman
sound already guilty based on BS.



Trayvon Martin case exposes worst in media

Here are three recent, troubling examples:

1. After ABC News aired surveillance video of George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter, entering a police precinct without any apparent injuries, the Daily Caller treated the tape like a Zapruder film, enhancing still images from the video and concluding that it found "what may be an injury to the back of his head." The site's photo "analysis" of the back of Zimmerman's head--replete with yellow Photoshopped arrows--"indicates what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long."
2. NBC told the Washington Post that it has launched an internal investigation of the "Today" show's editorial process after its morning show aired an edited conversation between George Zimmerman and a 911 dispatcher recorded moments before the shooting. The investigation came after Fox News and others pointed out that the network spliced two parts of the call together, making it appear as if Zimmerman had said, "This guy looks like he's up to no good. He looks black." In reality, Zimmerman was answering a dispatcher's question:
3. In an flailing effort to break news in a month-old shooting, CBS News aired an interview with Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who handled Trayvon Martin's burial.Media spin and lies

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by metamagic

Originally posted by cdesigns
This is for you who say Zimmerman didnt have any injuries, WHY the police officer is looking behind his head? that particular granny video might not show his injury but the police is clearly looking at something behind his head. The injuries were reported on the police report and on the EMT records.

DEAL WITH IT

(1) It's quite a jump of illogic to assume that because a police officer is looking behind Zimmerman's head to assuming there is an injury there. If I told you I had a gold bar in my briefcase and you looked, your looking would not be proof that there was a gold bar there. In fact to me it looks like the police officer is shaking his head "no" after looking.

This does not prove or disprove anything, what would be conclusive is a medical report or affidavit from either the EMTs who treated him or the hospital he claims to have been treated at. Which brings us to...

(2) I have yet to find any reference to an EMT report anywhere. What I do find are references to a call between EMT and dispatchers that cancel a second ambulance. It is true that we do have the police report, but there is no evidence the police did an examination or followed protocols when there is blood. What would settle it once and for all is either the medical report or a statement that one was not filed because there was no injuries. Since you say there is one, then please help settle this by providing a reference to it. Thank you.

Oh really? Read the police report we have had for over a week
use the search function and you will find in this thread anything
and everything

Are you really reading my posts? Because you haven't responded to any of the points I have raised. Yes I have read the police report which states that it was the SFD that examined and treated Zimmerman. We have a police report that speaks of injuries that are not visible less than half an hour later in a police video, and a report that there is no sign of a struggle on the body of Martin. My point is that given these inconsistencies, what would resolve the issue is a statement from the paramedics who examined Zimmerman, and who are qualified to make such an assessment, as to the the extent and nature of his injuries. You keep referring to the emt report but I can find no published report of any such report. I will also accept a hospital report from any qualified medical personnel who treated Zimmerman as to the nature of his injuries. So here it is.

If you are going to cite this EMT report as proof of Zimmerman's injuries, then post a link to it or a copy of it. If it's going to clear your boy, then put the proof where your mouth is.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by rebellender

I'm good , made my point.
you just make it what ever topic you choose and have a good day with it

You made no point at all. You made accusations.

Ever occur to you - I might have asked a question just to see how who/what answered? Like you.

I'm quite capable of looking up stuff on Google.

ask you a question Annee? no sorry wont go there, again , have a nice day

Cooper transcript

Not a new witness. THIS IS WHAT WAS REALLY TOLD
on ac360

I saw two men on the ground, on top of each other, obviously thinking, okay something really horrible is happening. And at that point, not looking out the window, I heard a yell for help, and then I heard … another excruciating type of yell. It didn’t even almost sound like ‘help,’ it almost sounded so painful. But I wasn’t watching out the window. [...] Next time I looked out the window, there same thing, two men on the grass, on top of each other [...] I couldn’t see a lot of movement because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard gunshots, which to me, were more like pops.
he said, he’d guess Zimmerman was the man on the top, but he could not say for sure since it was dark outside. Both struggles, he said, were in the same location on the grass
At first I heard the voices with my window closed. And pretty much in that area, people walk their dogs, and you’ll hear people talking, and you can hear them very clearly even when they’re not talking loud. So I thought it was rather loud, but I had just shut my window (because it started raining) ….

Lines up with the kid who was walking his dog also.

Originally posted by dalek

"I saw two men on the ground, one on top of the other. I felt they were scuffling and I heard gunshots which to me were more like pops," he said in an interview broadcast on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360, his voice disguised to protect his identity. "I don't know if was an echo but it definitely made more than one pop. "After the larger man got off there was a boy, obviously now dead, on the ground facing down.

Link here


New witness account describes how Zimmerman had Trayvon Martin pinned on the ground when he shot him....

this contradicts the previous witness, Zimmermans FATHER

The only factors about this case that are relevant on a societal level are the mechanisms that would polarize people so passionately.
Why the media, politicians and talk show host would ride this for all it worth.
A truly disgusting expose of society rubbernecking at tragedy.

Originally posted by popsmayhem
An article pointing out a few of
the lies the media has been making
up and feeding to people keeping
this story so filled with BS and people
are point to what the media has said
as *evidence* against zimmerman
when this is not evidence of anything
but a media spin making zimmerman
sound already guilty based on BS.

Holding a guy down and then shooting him dead might not fit with what you want to believe, unfortunately for you, that's how the truth works.
Trayvon was pinned down and then shot

Originally posted by rom12345
The only factors about this case that are relevant on a societal level are the mechanisms that would polarize people to passionately.
Why the media, politicians and talk show host would ride this for all it worth.
A truly disgusting expose of society rubbernecking at tragedy.

so the death of a young man is Irrelevant?