Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

There is absolutely no solid evidence to suggest he wasn't defending himself as he stated.
That is the fact. If evidence comes out that proves otherwise I will adjust my opinion if necessary to incorporate it.

edit on 30-3-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Then I suggest you watch one of the videos I linked which showed where TM was killed. If you agree that it wasn't anywhere near GZ's car then we are making progress.

Originally posted by spacedog1973

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

The white on black racism is approaching 1950/60's levels ... at least in the world of online comments. People feel same making horrible horrible offensive hurtful dangerous comments online because they feel safe.....alot of white racist have hidden themselves behind close doors for years....but this case has brought them out online.....I have seen thousands more white against black comments than I have black against white comments. And frankly it doesn't matter which side has more, what matters is its is 2012 and alot of people still have these racist attitudes. I think its sad myself.

Yes, I agree, but its not representative of society as a whole. Ron Paul supporters can tell you that much to their dismay.

I also think that whilst there is a growth of the use of the internet, many are casual browsers and do not join forums, but read the news, occasionally watch youtube, but official channels and never concern themselves with comments. If they play computer games, its the ones that come with windows.

The people you see online with their racist comments are a very vocal but pathetic minority that can never muster up real world support of any significance. They are paranoid, ill educated and fantasize about armegedon mainly because they hate their lives.

Let them have their forums and delusions and don't concern yourself with them except for amusement.

I agree most people aren't 'hardcore' racist and dont publicize it. But if all the people who made a truely racist comment online had there names published or something for the world to see, I know most would regret saying it, but the internet gave them the safety to voice their 'true' feelings. I know most people are not hard core about this, but situations like this case happen and we get reminded that the racist are still here they are just hiding better these days.

reply to post by Kali74


Thank you.
Sometimes I do come off as a hardline Zimmerman supporter which isn't the case, it is just a stance I get locked into because people don't just disagree the become hostile about it and so when I start to defend it I have to explain it in a way that makes me sound locked into an opinion. As evidenced by some of the people still arguing, when I say words like "likely" they pick on those subjects as me being wrong rather than me being honest which is what I am actually trying to do. I am trying to be fair.

I just can't believe that the conspiracy that would have to exist in order for Zimmerman to have just been a cold blooded murderer actually exists. I do think the media has manipulated the people supporting Martin with younger pictures of him and by representing him as a completely innocent child with no sort of behavioral problems. I just want to keep it open because It would suck if I was in Zimmerman's position and the only people that considered me as possibly being truthful and justified in the killing (not innocent of course, he did kill the kid) were racists or idiots. I don't want to hear about someone killing him in revenge or him killing himself in distress.

Originally posted by spacedog1973

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

There is absolutely no solid evidence to suggest he wasn't defending himself as he stated.
That is the fact. If evidence comes out that proves otherwise I will adjust my opinion if necessary to incorporate it.

edit on 30-3-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Then I suggest you watch one of the videos I linked which showed where TM was killed. If you agree that it wasn't anywhere near GZ's car then we are making progress.

....and treyvons body was found with his feet closest to the concrete sidewalk, so how was he banging Zimmermans head against the concrete if his feet were at that end? Just another reason why the lead investigator got it right and wanted to charge Zimmerman.....but it seems Zimmermans daddy called in favors and is now in the process of being busted.

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

Originally posted by spacedog1973

Originally posted by pizzanazi75

The white on black racism is approaching 1950/60's levels ... at least in the world of online comments. People feel same making horrible horrible offensive hurtful dangerous comments online because they feel safe.....alot of white racist have hidden themselves behind close doors for years....but this case has brought them out online.....I have seen thousands more white against black comments than I have black against white comments. And frankly it doesn't matter which side has more, what matters is its is 2012 and alot of people still have these racist attitudes. I think its sad myself.

Yes, I agree, but its not representative of society as a whole. Ron Paul supporters can tell you that much to their dismay.

I also think that whilst there is a growth of the use of the internet, many are casual browsers and do not join forums, but read the news, occasionally watch youtube, but official channels and never concern themselves with comments. If they play computer games, its the ones that come with windows.

The people you see online with their racist comments are a very vocal but pathetic minority that can never muster up real world support of any significance. They are paranoid, ill educated and fantasize about armegedon mainly because they hate their lives.

Let them have their forums and delusions and don't concern yourself with them except for amusement.

I agree most people aren't 'hardcore' racist and dont publicize it. But if all the people who made a truely racist comment online had there names published or something for the world to see, I know most would regret saying it, but the internet gave them the safety to voice their 'true' feelings. I know most people are not hard core about this, but situations like this case happen and we get reminded that the racist are still here they are just hiding better these days.

I didn't think for a second racists were gone, but they have retreated and are marginalized. That have no-where else to go but forums. Most of it is trolling and they need forums between themselves, not out on the open where they are roundly condemned. Racists need company.

Racists and bigots are here for as long as humans aren't perfect. Thats the reality. The goal is to keep them out of positions of power and by ridiculing them in public. The US has come a long way, but has still far to go.

reply to post by spacedog1973


When someone can explain to me why the kid came back to confront GZ other than to assault him then I will start to turn my opinion back to my first stance of supporting TM. It just seems to me that if he was afraid as his girlfriend says that someone was chasing him, and he was going to "walk fast" away that he would have made it home and gotten away after GZ said on the phone that the kid was running (do we dispute that the kid ran, because his gf said he didn't, is she reliable?) and he lost sight of him.

If GZ lost sight of the kid, and the kid ran home the odds of GZ catching up to him would be very unlikely. If TM was scared there is no way he would have approached GZ. So me this lends credence to GZ story.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

When someone can explain to me why the kid came back to confront GZ other than to assault him then I will start to turn my opinion back to my first stance of supporting TM. It just seems to me that if he was afraid as his girlfriend says that someone was chasing him, and he was going to "walk fast" away that he would have made it home and gotten away after GZ said on the phone that the kid was running (do we dispute that the kid ran, because his gf said he didn't, is she reliable?) and he lost sight of him.

If GZ lost sight of the kid, and the kid ran home the odds of GZ catching up to him would be very unlikely. If TM was scared there is no way he would have approached GZ. So me this lends credence to GZ story.

His place of death puts him far away from the road. GZ would have had to leave his car and walk for some time to even confront him. You really need to see where he was killed in relation to the road and then make a judgement. Becasue the only witness statement that confirms that TM confronted GZ is the killer's own statement. Thats not objectively looking for evidence to support a view at all. Im sure you can see that.

reply to post by spacedog1973


It just doesn't make sense that they would ever come in contact again after GZ tells the 911 operator that the kid started to run and he lost sight of him. At that point it sounds like Zimmerman was walking back because he was discussing where to meet the police. I don't think Zimmerman was making up some complete lie and fabricating all this evidence so that he could get away with murder a few moments later.

It just doesn't make sense. Zimmerman says he lost sight of the kid, then talks to the operator for a while after never mentioning seeing the kid again. In that time he was still on the phone the kid, had he actually been afraid, would have been making his way home, yet it appears he came back.

That is what doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

When someone can explain to me why the kid came back to confront GZ other than to assault him then I will start to turn my opinion back to my first stance of supporting TM. It just seems to me that if he was afraid as his girlfriend says that someone was chasing him, and he was going to "walk fast" away that he would have made it home and gotten away after GZ said on the phone that the kid was running (do we dispute that the kid ran, because his gf said he didn't, is she reliable?) and he lost sight of him.

If GZ lost sight of the kid, and the kid ran home the odds of GZ catching up to him would be very unlikely. If TM was scared there is no way he would have approached GZ. So me this lends credence to GZ story.

Who said that Treyvon came back to confront Zimmerman? You are assuming that. Zimmerman said on the 911 call that 'he's running now'....but do we know that is even true? No we don't. That is zimmermans word against treyvons and unfortunately he is dead.

His girlfriend never said he ran....she said she told him to ... she said 'suddenly martin was cornered' .. she then heard treyvon say 'why are you following me? - she heard zimmerman say 'what are you doing here?' ... then she hears what sounded like a shove and treyvons ear piece hit the ground and the call went dead....she never said he ran ... maybe if you knew what the girlfriend actually said it would add credence to her story...right? Trayvon Martin's Girlfriend Speaks, Discusses Neighborhood-Watch Shooting in Florida
And his girl friend tells him to run...he says no, gonna walk fast...she says no, run, then he is corned... treyvon ask zimmerman why he is following him... that indiciates zimmerman had caught up to treyvon...not that treyvon went back....this is the point the witness start hearing voices outside that escalate to treyvon screaming.....you do realize the conversation between the girlfriend saying run and the phone going dead is a matter of maybe 10 seconds...its a short exchange...how did zimmerman get so far from his truck if he wasn't pursuing treyvon?....zimmerman corned him ,probably grabbed treyvon, treyvon tried to get away...treyvon still yelling...there is a scuffle ... and then at some point zimmerman shoots treyvon from some angle..that angle is also very very very key.....the witness saw him standing over treyvon within seconds of the gun going off.....my guess is he shot treyvon in the back .. thats why treyvon was fond face down hands under him and why zimmerman has none of treyvons blood on him .... or any significant injuries.....

IF you listen to the link I provided, does the girlfriends account hold any credence with you? Or do you think she is just making it up to try and get revenge? She gave a sworn statement long before it became national news .. and her version fits with other witness accounts as exchange of words, what treyvon was seeing reporting back to her .... he has no motive to tell her nothing that is not happening to him at that moment and she has not motive to make anything up, and from all accounts her statements have remained consistent unlike things coming out of the zimmerman camp. Is she credible to you?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

It just doesn't make sense that they would ever come in contact again after GZ tells the 911 operator that the kid started to run and he lost sight of him. At that point it sounds like Zimmerman was walking back because he was discussing where to meet the police. I don't think Zimmerman was making up some complete lie and fabricating all this evidence so that he could get away with murder a few moments later.

It just doesn't make sense. Zimmerman says he lost sight of the kid, then talks to the operator for a while after never mentioning seeing the kid again. In that time he was still on the phone the kid, had he actually been afraid, would have been making his way home, yet it appears he came back.

That is what doesn't make sense to me.

Well after he hung up with 911 he must have spot him and took pursuit again after him. Nobody said he was making up a complete lie so he could commit murder in a few mins. That is what you are wanting to hear, but nobody is saying he set out that night to kill him...but he did kill him, still a crime.

Again why does it appear that he came back? Why can't it appear that Zimmerman caught up with him? That seems more logical to me considering Zimmerman already took pursuit. Just because he said he turned around and was going back to his truck doesn't mean it is true. Do you know how far away from his truck he was? Look at a map of where his truck was and were Treyvon's body was found.....that points more towards zimmerman following treyvon. But im sure you won't see that.

Originally posted by popsmayhem


The video is not clear enough to really
see his injuries. I pointed out the broken
nose, and the bruised eye socket.

You mean the three broken noses and three bruised eye sockets?
Or...
You mean you pointed out interlace.

Hey, here is a thought. Why are those exact same "injuries" visible in any of the moving video that covers just about every angle? Only in your blurry interlaced still? And it occurs on everyone in the picture? What's up with that?

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Yes.. but as I have said most likely he ran, she said that Martin said he would "walk fast," but that is even irrelevant. You have to realize that your theory is getting a little out there if you think that Zimmerman was fabricating everything to the paramedics and didn't see Trayvon run. I am using logic and what I know about that night from both Zimmerman, and the GF. You are implying that not only did Zimmerman make up everything he said on the 9-11 call, but that would imply he had intentions to murder Trayvon before hand, and that there was a conspiracy involving dozens of people to cover it up. That is a hell of a way to go to deny that it's probable that the kid returned to cause trouble.

Come on. Which is more likely? I am trying to be fair here and explaining what about the story doesn't work, you are obviously bias if you actually believe what you stated. Occam's razor.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


No.. that is what you are implying. There is a time frame here. He lost track of the kid and was returning to he could figure out how to meet the police. The phone call continues and he is talking calmly to the operator about where to meet the police there is no way he is running in pursuit at that time and it continues for a bit. So the kid, being a football player, had to put some good distance between them. Distance that would probably not be recoverable. The only reasonable explanation ATM is that the teen doubled back and approached Zimmerman. He should have kept running all the way home.

You are just wanting to ignore this gaping hole in the story.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


It is far away from his truck, but still the kid would have no problem outrunning Zimmerman of this I will remain confident, and I don't think Zimmerman was lying when he said he lost sight of the kid. I don't know, I don't think Zimmerman would risk the kid getting on top and possibly getting his gun if he was out to murder the guy, and even though he talked about "these assholes always get away" he didn't seem exceptionally hyped or angry on the phone. He actually sounded pretty subdued. Why on earth would he let the kid get on top of him if they were facing each other and coming at each other as the map suggests.

Also worth noting, there is a concrete path right by where they fell so it is very likely that is where Zimmerman's head was banged, not the road sidewalk.

Trayvon is never cornered. They fell and he was killed in an open space between houses. If he saw that Zimmerman had a gun before they were wrestling on the ground he would have turned and run because he had plenty of space.

reply to post by spacedog1973


Two of the biggest racists in the country showed up just for the media spotlight, Jackson and Sharpton.

Doesn't look like they are shamed.

Make all assumptions you want about what Zimmerman did, the evidence shows that this was self defense. the police report, and I am sure the medic report, along with follow up visits to the doctor will show that Zimmerman got punched.

Even TM's girlfriends statements support GZs side of the story, and in a court of law, it will be interesting to hear what she winds up saying.

Trying to make a man guilty for keeping an eye on his own property. That is wrong.

The police report puts the body just around the first corner. Where is Martin's house from there? That is the missing piece.

reply to post by poet1b


I don't know how accurate this map is, but Trayvon's path is assumed.



If it's correct Trayvon was cut off on his way to his dad's gf's.
The blogger is a bit bias though. It doesn't look like Trayvon could have been cornered there, but I don't know. There is a sidewalk that Zimmerman could have had his head hit on.

I really don't know about this case. It's pretty back and forth. I will say the most shameful thing I have seen so far is Trayvon's parents copyrighting his name..

Here is a question for all those that are on the TM side of the case.

How come with all of the police, emt's, and ruckus (including a gunshot!) Trayvon's dad and girlfriend didn't file a police report or know what happened until the next day? Were they home? What was going on. The shooting went down really close to the house where she supposedly lived.

1) GZ must have spotted TM from outside the gated community: I that assertion totally groundless.
2) timing is key here knowing that you can walk from the north entrance to TM’s home in about 3min there is no way TM ran straight home. He must have spent time hiding somewhere north of the spot where he was eventually killed.
Here is the timing information I have collected:
7:09 – GZ calls 911 to report TM’s activity in the gated community.
7:11 – GZ reports that TM runs away and starts chasing him on foot.
7:12 – TM calls girlfriend and tells her about GZ chasing him and that he lost him (according to girlfriend).
7:13 – GZ ends 911 call with clear indication that he is not planning to wait police at the mail boxes.
7:16 – TM’s call to girlfriend ends on TM saying GZ is behind him again followed by an altercation (according to GF).
7:16 – First 911 call from 1st ear witness of the struggle.
7:16 – First 911 call from 1st eyewitness of part of the struggle reporting for for man in white (TM) being on top of man in red (GZ).
7:16 (about) – A 14yo kid walking his dog sees the fight with 1 man on the ground another one on top but like the other eyewitness he wouldn’t see the whole fight.
7:17 – Police arrives in the gated community.
7:17 to 7:18 – 4 911 calls reporting gunshot.
7:19 – Last 911 call from the 14yo witness and his little sister.

Ok here is what I have decided. If everything in Trayvon's defense is true then he had to go somewhere and hide because he was literally like 70 yards from his dad's girlfriends and could have been there in a one minute run (and he was a football player) yet why would he hide rather than run there? If Zimmerman's defense is correct than the reason Trayvon didn't make it home and met up with Zimmerman again was because he hid and jumped Zimmerman. If it were me as a kid and I was afraid I would have made that mad dash home. It seems like anyone would run like hell for home if they were within sight of it. So that is very weird to me. Trayvon died about 150 feet from his dad's girlfriends place.

www.scribd.com...
Thought that was pretty funny. Im a professional Ebonics translator if anyone needs help

reply to post by DavidWillts


Your point in posting that, is what?