Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

It has absolutely been contradicted.
Show me a transcript btw, because everything I have heard is that her story has changed several times.
The girlfriend is less reliable than the eyewitnesses in my opinion. Her testimony is no different than that of a racist because she has a reason to hate zimmerman.

Zimmermans story has changed at least 3 times and all of his 'character' witness have said different things about what he told them. You don't have a problem with that?

Originally posted by conspiracy nut

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

No one ever said he had a life threatening injury. Just more exaggerated claims to try to make one guy look bad.

When you are getting your head banged against the ground you aren't clearly thinking "well when the damage is sufficient enough to justify it, I will shoot this fella." No you don't know what the damage is, but you don't know if or when it will stop. You react. If you don't react you are a fool.

I guess everyone here is so self righteous that you would let this guy beat you to death because he is younger and deserves a chance to show he will stop and doesn't know any better.

the guy is bashing your head into the ground to the point that you feel your life is in danger yet you refuse to go to the hospital for treatment?

i thought he was gonna kill me, he is unarmed, the cops are on their way, i'll shoot him. whatever happened to a fair fight? come on if thats the case take your ass whoopin like a man, trayvon would still be alive and we wouldnt be in this predicament now would we?

what are the odds that trayvon would have beaten zimmerman to death? honestly how many 1 on 1 fights between 2 unarmed people end up in death? maybe if trayvon was some kind of mixed martial artist and zimmerman was some pathetic weakling but that is not the case now is it!!!

The narrative that people want to present is based in ignorance.

1. They want to make out TM as a criminal. But even when they do, all that they can smear him with is theft and smoking herb
2.Being a criminal doesn't make you a murderer. people have to really wise-up on this and learn something about the motivation of criminals. Theft or even selling drugs is acquisitive offence, the purpose is to make money not to cause physical harm.
3.TM has no history of violence
4.GZ has history of violence
5.GZ father stated that GZ told him he had a broken nose. No record of this was made by police at the scene. One office mentioned that his nose was bleeding. The other officer didn't even mention this in his report.
6.We know that GZ according to a witness followed TM and confronted him. We even know the words which were spoken.
7. We know that a fight broke out. We know that GZ lied about the nature of the fight.
8.Someone or both screamed during the fight. Both parents identify their son.
8. GZ killed TM
9.GZ has no visible injuries, did not go immediatley to hosptial. Does not appear to just have escaped a life threatening fight.

How does one come to and uneducated conclusion with such definitive lack of evidence?
A little about my "unofficial education":
-Iraq 2times Afghanistan 1time.
-Shot and killed enemies.
-seen blood And gore up close. Seen gun shot wounds up close.
-watched as someone was wrestling and a "defender" shot someone on top of them.

So.... The injuries to Zimmerman, it was raining, blood washes away when still fresh and undried even from some clothes. Rain would have also helped wash blood from wounds. Facial wounds bleed bad at the moment
of impact but subside quickly due to lack of facial meat below skin. Is it possible to hit some and not have wounds on hand? Yes. Why in the world would anyone think that TM would land and be face up if he was shot while being on top of Zimmerman? If I was on the bottom shooting And TM got shot and fell on me I'd roll him off, which MAY lead to landing face down if the entrance wound is on front Of TM.
Witnesses. They are usually half unreliable due to the stress involved and
possible opinions of the situation, so we must take those with a grain of salt.
what about the 911 calls? Oh yes the "help help help" being yelled as the woman is on the fone.
Zimmerman stated he yells for help but NO ONE came to help.
Now why would someone yell for help tht was so full of rage that he just " had"
to shoot this kid. Makes no sense, as such his statement is backed up by 911 audio.
Blood spatter evidence in this case is out. Wounds are the key for lining up
who says what happened as to who was aggressive and being on top.
I myself would NOT allow someone to put one hand aggressively on me without taking action.
If I was being hit and the person reached in their pocket (which was not said or shown, just hypothetical)
during a physical altercation then I would assume the worst and use my escelation of force
out of sheer protection, BUT I AM a trained soldier.
Race has become a huge factor in this regardless of anyone's opinions on right or wrong.
It shouldn't be BUT that's the world we live in. Those who attempt to poison the justice system with
racial crap are only making it worse. Handing guilt or innocence before proof is also crap.
I support neither side, I only ask for justice. If that means guilty by evidence, good.
If it means innocent by evidence, good. Either way our system did its job.
Don't go out and start # just because you have a notion due to some opinion in life that
sways you to one side. I have spent to much time defending freedoms to see American turn into a racial
pot of # with people fighting over skin color while a kid is dead. Let the cops and Feds do their jobs.
As for me? I am PRO firearms. I am trained with a sidearm and can make
A split second decision without using color creed or age as a deciding factor.
If anyone threatened me physically and I felt the need to halt the progress of my life being altered by injury
I would not hesitate to take action.
As for this? The truth will show its ugly face and one side of this argument will NOT be happy.
As for me? I hope our justice system does a good job and decide off evidence on not public opinion.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

It has absolutely been contradicted.
Show me a transcript btw, because everything I have heard is that her story has changed several times.
The girlfriend is less reliable than the eyewitnesses in my opinion. Her testimony is no different than that of a racist because she has a reason to hate zimmerman.

Now you are not making sense.

There is no transcript but interviews she has made with the media, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER WITNESS. Because, the police have did not see fit to charge GZ. If you are interested in what she says, go to the links I put up in previous posts or listen to the interviews. Google is your friend.

Don't use the term racist incorrectly.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Yeah of course, but there is actual evidence to corroborate his claim.
His head was bashed against the concrete. He didn't do it to himself, people would have seen that of course.
Since his head was being hit against the ground, not only does it corroborate his story, but it shows that his life was in danger and he was justified.

The video below shows an obvious wound from the video.
video.msnbc.msn.com...

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

You are making a really poor argument. The two are not comparable this isn't a sex crime where there is only one motive. This is a crime where it is not only possible, but likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman. If you can't make a better argument I am done with you because there are eye witnesses that saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.

Here I will argue it on the only level you are capable of apparently. It would be akin to a rape victim having someone over hear them at a party stated they were going to sleep with someone and claim rape to get them in trouble. You are trying to make a "she asked for it" argument out of a "stranger heard the victim's plan with his own ears" argument.

What was the motive in this case that makes the character attacks any different than an attack on a rape victim. Attacking the victim is a classic move, be it rape or any other crime, so my argument is very strong whether you like it or not.
Why is it likely that Treyvon attacked Zimmerman? What motive did Treyvon have? Does he have an official documented history of violence, or a history of calling 911 on black males in the neighborhood.....no that is zimmerman, yet you say its likely Treyvon attacked Zimmerman for no reason, and entirely discount the girlfriends statements.
Im talking about the attack on the victim, that is what is similar to rape cases. Treyvons own lawyer compared the attacks to rape victims, as have other people commenting on the matter, I will stay over here and be stupid with them, you can go hang out with Zimmerman since you seem to admire him so much.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Yeah of course, but there is actual evidence to corroborate his claim.
His head was bashed against the concrete. He didn't do it to himself, people would have seen that of course.
Since his head was being hit against the ground, not only does it corroborate his story, but it shows that his life was in danger and he was justified.

The video below shows an obvious wound from the video.
video.msnbc.msn.com...

It seems you misunderstand the law of self defense and SYG.

If TM was attacked, he has EVERY right to defend himself. So until it is known how the fight started, the injuries or otherwise to GZ are irrelevent except to prove that he was lying by saying his nose was broken.

And so far there is one witness who states that GZ started the fight. So that would put the law on TM IF he had retaliated, which he had every right to do.

reply to post by spacedog1973


What? I didn't use the term incorrectly. You are the one that said that witnesses can be racist and therefore are unreliable, I said she would be just as unreliable as any racist because she hates GZ. I think maybe you need to read it again.

There are no interviews that I have seen with the girlfriend. Just what the lawyer says she said. The whole girlfriend angle is ridiculous. She didn't mention to the family that she was on the phone with him when things happened until three weeks later? She is just saying what the lawyer wants.

Can you please show me anywhere that says she was actually on the phone with him a minute before the cops got there? If that were true she would have heard the gunshot. It is just not true.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Yeah of course, but there is actual evidence to corroborate his claim.
His head was bashed against the concrete. He didn't do it to himself, people would have seen that of course.
Since his head was being hit against the ground, not only does it corroborate his story, but it shows that his life was in danger and he was justified.

The video below shows an obvious wound from the video.
video.msnbc.msn.com...

Where exactly is that head wound from having his head repeatedly bashed in the concrete? It sure isn't in any of those videos.
Could you also point to the grass stains and wet jacket that has been reported, I can't seem to locate those things either. I also don't see any blood on him from shooting and killing Treyvon from such a close range, mind pointing that out on that video?
We all seen pictures of Rhianna after she was assaulted, we know what a beat up face looks like, that video does not show a person who just 30 mins earlier had his head bashed repeatedly against concrete or was being beaten in the face to the point of a broken nose.
Please point out the things I have missed in the video, you seem to be very good at seeing things that aren't there.

Originally posted by popsmayhem
UPDATE EXCLUSIVE
Brother: Medical records will prove George Zimmerman's story-- George Zimmerman's brother said medical records will prove that his brother was attacked and his nose was broken by Trayvon Martin before he fatally shot the teen.

Robert Zimmerman Jr. spoke to CNN's Piers Morgan Thursday night saying he wanted to correct some of the "mythology" and untruths that have been spread about the controversial shooting.

www.cnn.com...

edit on 30-3-2012 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

Unless Robert Zimmerman Jr was actually there and witnessed what happens, the truth is he is taking his brother's word for what happened. The truth is, Robert Zimmerman Jr doesn't know any more or less than the rest of us.

And Medical Records would only prove injuries, it wouldn't actually prove how those injuries occurred. If what the Funeral Director says is accurate at all, it will be very difficult to prove that Martin ever touched Zimmerman.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

What? I didn't use the term incorrectly. You are the one that said that witnesses can be racist and therefore are unreliable, I said she would be just as unreliable as any racist because she hates GZ. I think maybe you need to read it again.

There are no interviews that I have seen with the girlfriend. Just what the lawyer says she said. The whole girlfriend angle is ridiculous. She didn't mention to the family that she was on the phone with him when things happened until three weeks later? She is just saying what the lawyer wants.

Can you please show me anywhere that says she was actually on the phone with him a minute before the cops got there? If that were true she would have heard the gunshot. It is just not true.

Video with GF speaking

There are others if you search

Originally posted by spacedog1973
If TM was attacked, he has EVERY right to defend himself. So until it is known how the fight started, the injuries or otherwise to GZ are irrelevent except to prove that he was lying by saying his nose was broken.

SO they both had the right to defend themselves
and treyvon lost.

Remember men use to dual over
being calld an idiot. first with swords
then with guns..

If both idiots thought they were acting
in self defense which could be possible
then by all rights come hell or highwater
one of them was going to die did it have to be
that way? NO i think both of them stood there ground
one guy won one guy lost but dont hang the guy who won
a fight to the death for winning, either way it had turned out.

reply to post by spacedog1973


Nope. There is no evidence but the witnesses and the fact that Zimmerman was underneath and had the damage done to him. You can't prove anything else, he was the one that was in danger of sustaining damage or death therefore he is justified. There is not really anything else they can investigate to come to a different conclusion. He is innocent until proven guilty and to charge him would be to risk putting an innocent man in prison which we can't do.

So case closed pretty much.

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by spacedog1973
If TM was attacked, he has EVERY right to defend himself. So until it is known how the fight started, the injuries or otherwise to GZ are irrelevent except to prove that he was lying by saying his nose was broken.

SO they both had the right to defend themselves
and treyvon lost.

Remember men use to dual over
being calld an idiot. first with swords
then with guns..

If both idiots thought they were acting
in self defense which could be possible
then by all rights come hell or highwater
one of them was going to die did it have to be
that way? NO i think both of them stood there ground
one guy won one guy lost but dont hang the guy who won
a fight to the death for winning, either way it had turned out.

When you are attacked, you become the defender. There cannot be two defenders.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

What? I didn't use the term incorrectly. You are the one that said that witnesses can be racist and therefore are unreliable, I said she would be just as unreliable as any racist because she hates GZ. I think maybe you need to read it again.

There are no interviews that I have seen with the girlfriend. Just what the lawyer says she said. The whole girlfriend angle is ridiculous. She didn't mention to the family that she was on the phone with him when things happened until three weeks later? She is just saying what the lawyer wants.

Can you please show me anywhere that says she was actually on the phone with him a minute before the cops got there? If that were true she would have heard the gunshot. It is just not true.

Here is a link that about the girlfriend. So i guess Treyvons lawyers have now altered phone records to make up this angle of the story. Is that what you are saying?

Trayvon Martin's Girlfriend Speaks Out! (DETAILS)

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

Nope. There is no evidence but the witnesses and the fact that Zimmerman was underneath and had the damage done to him. You can't prove anything else, he was the one that was in danger of sustaining damage or death therefore he is justified. There is not really anything else they can investigate to come to a different conclusion. He is innocent until proven guilty and to charge him would be to risk putting an innocent man in prison which we can't do.

So case closed pretty much.

You would make a crappy juror.

'No evidence but the witnesses'

But there is a witness who was on the phone to him

'I don't believe her'

Pick and choose who you want to believe. Just don't make out you are impartial.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

Nope. There is no evidence but the witnesses and the fact that Zimmerman was underneath and had the damage done to him. You can't prove anything else, he was the one that was in danger of sustaining damage or death therefore he is justified. There is not really anything else they can investigate to come to a different conclusion. He is innocent until proven guilty and to charge him would be to risk putting an innocent man in prison which we can't do.

So case closed pretty much.

Well unless it was me or you then they would
of screwed us over a barrel.
BUT to stand up for justice, and the law of florida,
they have no evidence or case against zimmerman.
Playing the law is like gambling for a man sometimes
you win and sometimes you loose.

reply to post by spacedog1973


Yeah.. ok she still only spoke with the lawyer there and with questions from the lawyer. You are probably smart enough to know how it works with lawyers? Right?

reply to post by spacedog1973


Actually I would make a great juror. It is so funny that you say that because you are the one that has condemned a man I am the one basing my opinion only on evidence. Go to the start of this thread and I defended Trayvon, where we are at now, the evidence is in favor of Zimmerman.

You are basing your opinion on ideas like the paramedics and cops and witnesses are lying. You are basing your opinions on a blurry video and a lawyer directed girlfriend.

I am honestly judging fairly. I would make a great juror. I understand that she is a witness, I was the first person to point that out in this thread actually. That doesn't make her any more reliable than the juries on site and she couldn't see what happened and she has reason to be bias.