Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

So if you assault someone but the school takes care of it internally it doesn't say as much about your character as if you assault someone and are arrested for it?

It absolutely does. Kids while in school are learning life lessons and are more apt to make mistakes that are teachable moments. If any thing had happened at school that would have been out of the norm the police would have been involved and a record would exist, like the record of Zimmerman.

And...I don't believe the school had any record of assault regarding Treyvon....I think your mistaking a comment on a twitter feed for actual documentation of an incident.

Treyvon is victim, just as in a rape case, his character is not being called into question. He was not in the process of committing any crime, he was walking home from the store talking on the phone to a girl.

reply to post by spacedog1973


Absolutely not, no evidence supports that Zimmerman actually followed him for more than a few seconds. He himself admits to losing sight of Martin on the phone.

The girlfriends testimony is spotty at best considering she has reason to be bias and couldn't see what was happening.

So far the evidence supports Zimmerman, the cops, the medics, and the eyewitness' story. I am a completely unbiased observer. At the beginning of this thread I was against Zimmerman, but since then new info has come out and he has been persecuted in such a way that he is unable to receive a fair trial and his life is in danger.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


That is just not true at all. There are rumors of at least two assaults on top of recorded incidences of the jewelry, pot and pot paraphernalia, and graffiti. You are absolutely wrong here.

It says just as much about ones character in school as it does outside of school. The only difference is that it is recorded by different organizations. If the kid was capable of criminal activities (just a few days prior) then he was still capable a few days later.

This is something that is undeniable.

BTW just curious how old was Zimmerman when the charges were filed against him?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

Absolutely not, no evidence supports that Zimmerman actually followed him for more than a few seconds. He himself admits to losing sight of Martin on the phone.

The girlfriends testimony is spotty at best considering she has reason to be bias and couldn't see what was happening.

So far the evidence supports Zimmerman, the cops, the medics, and the eyewitness' story. I am a completely unbiased observer. At the beginning of this thread I was against Zimmerman, but since then new info has come out and he has been persecuted in such a way that he is unable to receive a fair trial and his life is in danger.

of course zimmerman is going to say he is innocent and acted in self defense, some cops are known to bungle investigations/lie/cover up things, i'm not sure about the medics but zimmerman didnt get treatment for any life threatening injuries til the next day, ask yourself would you wait til the next day to seek treatment for life threatening injuries? the witness is the witness that agreed with zimmermans side of the story, why did the cops ignore the lady who saw it go down in a completely different manner? evidence? where are the bloody clothes?

this is not an open and shut case. i would like to see an unbiased thorough investigation and i would like to see zimmerman prove that he is not guilty in an unbiased court of law.

How does one come to and uneducated conclusion with such definitive lack of evidence?
A little about my "unofficial education":
-Iraq 2times Afghanistan 1time.
-Shot and killed enemies.
-seen blood And gore up close. Seen gun shot wounds up close.
-watched as someone was wrestling and a "defender" shot someone on top of them.

So.... The injuries to Zimmerman, it was raining, blood washes away when still fresh and undried even from some clothes. Rain would have also helped wash blood from wounds. Facial wounds bleed bad at the moment
of impact but subside quickly due to lack of facial meat below skin. Is it possible to hit some and n

reply to post by pizzanazi75


We do not know that. It is not the same as in a rape case. If Martin got away and came back and made the first actual contact then he is actually guilty of something.

Whether or not he intended to commit a crime that night, if he hit GZ then he ended up doing so.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

Absolutely not, no evidence supports that Zimmerman actually followed him for more than a few seconds. He himself admits to losing sight of Martin on the phone.

The girlfriends testimony is spotty at best considering she has reason to be bias and couldn't see what was happening.

So far the evidence supports Zimmerman, the cops, the medics, and the eyewitness' story. I am a completely unbiased observer. At the beginning of this thread I was against Zimmerman, but since then new info has come out and he has been persecuted in such a way that he is unable to receive a fair trial and his life is in danger.

Thats not true...the spot Treyvon was killed in shows Zimmerman followed him for quite some distance. Look at the map of the neighborhood and where zimmerman called 911 from. That is clear evidence that he followed him for a quite a ways.
Why is the girlfriends testimony spotty? She gave her sworn statement to Treyvons lawyers before this became national news.
What new information has come out to lead you to switch sides and go from being against Zimmerman to for him?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

Absolutely not, no evidence supports that Zimmerman actually followed him for more than a few seconds. He himself admits to losing sight of Martin on the phone.

I refer you to my previous post and the GF testimony. You are simply wrong. There IS evidence.

The girlfriends testimony is spotty at best considering she has reason to be bias and couldn't see what was happening.

Explain how it is 'spotty'.

So far the evidence supports Zimmerman, the cops,

The cops wanted to charge him and were overruled

the medics,

Medical report is not out. Video shows no serious wounds to Zimmerman. No bruises on TM either. In any event, Medical record are irrelevant except to confirm GZ claim of having a nose broken. Which is patently a lie.

and the eyewitness' story.

Eye witness only saw end of fight. This has no baring on anything since we don't know who started it. Eyewitness also says that he saw GZ get off TM. Conflicting reports = 0

I am a completely unbiased observer.

Don't kid yourself

At the beginning of this thread I was against Zimmerman

If you say so, I guess we have to believe you. Buts it just witness testimony not to be trusted, no?

but since then new info has come out and he has been persecuted in such a way that he is unable to receive a fair trial and his life is in danger.

He was not going to get a trial before social media made this viral. If his life is in danger now, what difference does it make if he is or not given a trial? Does that automatically make it safer?

reply to post by conspiracy nut


No one ever said he had a life threatening injury. Just more exaggerated claims to try to make one guy look bad.

When you are getting your head banged against the ground you aren't clearly thinking "well when the damage is sufficient enough to justify it, I will shoot this fella." No you don't know what the damage is, but you don't know if or when it will stop. You react. If you don't react you are a fool.

I guess everyone here is so self righteous that you would let this guy beat you to death because he is younger and deserves a chance to show he will stop and doesn't know any better.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

That is just not true at all. There are rumors of at least two assaults on top of recorded incidences of the jewelry, pot and pot paraphernalia, and graffiti. You are absolutely wrong here.

It says just as much about ones character in school as it does outside of school. The only difference is that it is recorded by different organizations. If the kid was capable of criminal activities (just a few days prior) then he was still capable a few days later.

This is something that is undeniable.

BTW just curious how old was Zimmerman when the charges were filed against him?

Recorded police involvement trumps school records everytime. In fact, adult CONVICTIONS trump child convictions everytime. Why? Because the law feels that adults should be more responsible than children as such they are usually sentenced differently for the same crimes.

The Criminal Justice System accepts that childhood behavioiur is not indicative of adult behaviour. Why do you feel differently?

reply to post by spacedog1973


How is it SPOTTY?
It is coming from a biased, unrecorded, source. There is no evidence that anything she says actually happened.

The neighbors, paramedics, and police have no real stake in the case. You are suggesting a HUGE conspiracy is more likely than the victim's girlfriend lying in an attempt to punish her boyfriends killer.

Originally posted by SoldierVET30
How does one come to and uneducated conclusion with such definitive lack of evidence?
A little about my "unofficial education":
-Iraq 2times Afghanistan 1time.
-Shot and killed enemies.
-seen blood And gore up close. Seen gun shot wounds up close.
-watched as someone was wrestling and a "defender" shot someone on top of them.

So.... The injuries to Zimmerman, it was raining, blood washes away when still fresh and undried even from some clothes. Rain would have also helped wash blood from wounds. Facial wounds bleed bad at the moment
of impact but subside quickly due to lack of facial meat below skin. Is it possible to hit some and n

supposedly zimmerman changed clothes before going into the police office. i find it very hard to believe that rain would have washed away the blood stains or the traces of blood on the clothes zimmerman had on during the struggle. would the rain also mysteriously heal a life threatening gash to the back of the head to the point that zimmerman refused to go to the hospital?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

We do not know that. It is not the same as in a rape case. If Martin got away and came back and made the first actual contact then he is actually guilty of something.

Whether or not he intended to commit a crime that night, if he hit GZ then he ended up doing so.

edit on 30-3-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

the character attacks are the same thing as a rape case. Attack the victim and make it seems like they are beneath justice and asked for what they have gotten.
What makes you think Treyvon got away and came back? Seems more logical that Zimmerman continued pursuit and found him. What reason would Treyvon have to leave then come back? Zimmerman already has shown he is hell bent on pursuit.
the girlfriends testimony is a good clue as too who hit who first....you just don't want to believe her because you have decided she isn't reliable but a man with a history of violence and an obsession for law enforment and a tendency to report black males to the police is completely reliable and justified in killing an unarmed teenager ....

Martin was not carrying a weapon, was not found with drugs or alcohol in his possession, was not committing any crime and there is absolutely no evidence that he was intending to commit one.

If you're a teenager looking to rob a home or commit some other crime and you notice someone following you, do you stick around? No, you'd run. He was alone, so it's not like he was with a bunch of friends looking for trouble. Sneaky people, when in a position of getting caught being sneaky, tend to run. He had a head start and yeah, he probably could have outrun him. So why didn't he if he was such a suspicious thief?

If he had no reason to run and nothing to hide, why would he just decide to just sneak up and jump this guy after falling back enough to think he lost him? Wouldn't he be freaked out just trying to figure out what the hell he was being followed for? I don't see a motive.

So very little time passed from the time the 911 call ended to the shot, that it's very possible they both thought they lost each other for a moment but just another step or two by either one and they met face to face. Looking at the way that neighborhood is laid out, it's pretty open behind the homes. If Zimmerman was not following Martin, how did he end up from the street where his truck was all the way into someone's backyard?

According to the girlfriend, Trayvon did ask why he was being followed and Zimmerman asked what he was doing there, so, if you believe her story, they had a verbal exchange before any physical contact was made.

Edited to add that this merely my interpretation of events. Conjecture. Theory.

Originally posted by conspiracy nut

Originally posted by SoldierVET30
How does one come to and uneducated conclusion with such definitive lack of evidence?
A little about my "unofficial education":
-Iraq 2times Afghanistan 1time.
-Shot and killed enemies.
-seen blood And gore up close. Seen gun shot wounds up close.
-watched as someone was wrestling and a "defender" shot someone on top of them.

So.... The injuries to Zimmerman, it was raining, blood washes away when still fresh and undried even from some clothes. Rain would have also helped wash blood from wounds. Facial wounds bleed bad at the moment
of impact but subside quickly due to lack of facial meat below skin. Is it possible to hit some and n

supposedly zimmerman changed clothes before going into the police office. i find it very hard to believe that rain would have washed away the blood stains or the traces of blood on the clothes zimmerman had on during the struggle. would the rain also mysteriously heal a life threatening gash to the back of the head to the point that zimmerman refused to go to the hospital?

Who said he changed clothes? I have not heard that anywhere. The footage at the station is 35 mins after the shooting. He had to be checked by SFD first and then transport time. Where and when did he change clothes....any source for that? He has on a red jacket still so if he changed clothes and they took it for evidence he kept the jacket.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

How is it SPOTTY?
It is coming from a biased, unrecorded, source. There is no evidence that anything she says actually happened.

The neighbors, paramedics, and police have no real stake in the case. You are suggesting a HUGE conspiracy is more likely than the victim's girlfriend lying in an attempt to punish her boyfriends killer.

edit on 30-3-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

All witness testimony is biased. Thats why it is not overly valued. People have poor eyesight, people are racist, people lie etc. But that doesn't make it spotty. Spotty infers that it has been contradicted by other evidence, when it hasn't. When witness testimony can be backed by physical evidence, then it becomes more likley that it is the truth. So far, there is absoulutely no evidence to suggest that it is untruthful in any way.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


You are making a really poor argument. The two are not comparable this isn't a sex crime where there is only one motive. This is a crime where it is not only possible, but likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman. If you can't make a better argument I am done with you because there are eye witnesses that saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.

Here I will argue it on the only level you are capable of apparently. It would be akin to a rape victim having someone over hear them at a party stated they were going to sleep with someone and claim rape to get them in trouble. You are trying to make a "she asked for it" argument out of a "stranger heard the victim's plan with his own ears" argument.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by conspiracy nut

 

No one ever said he had a life threatening injury. Just more exaggerated claims to try to make one guy look bad.

When you are getting your head banged against the ground you aren't clearly thinking "well when the damage is sufficient enough to justify it, I will shoot this fella." No you don't know what the damage is, but you don't know if or when it will stop. You react. If you don't react you are a fool.

I guess everyone here is so self righteous that you would let this guy beat you to death because he is younger and deserves a chance to show he will stop and doesn't know any better.

the guy is bashing your head into the ground to the point that you feel your life is in danger yet you refuse to go to the hospital for treatment?

i thought he was gonna kill me, he is unarmed, the cops are on their way, i'll shoot him. whatever happened to a fair fight? come on if thats the case take your ass whoopin like a man, trayvon would still be alive and we wouldnt be in this predicament now would we?

what are the odds that trayvon would have beaten zimmerman to death? honestly how many 1 on 1 fights between 2 unarmed people end up in death? maybe if trayvon was some kind of mixed martial artist and zimmerman was some pathetic weakling but that is not the case now is it!!!

reply to post by spacedog1973


It has absolutely been contradicted.
Show me a transcript btw, because everything I have heard is that her story has changed several times.
The girlfriend is less reliable than the eyewitnesses in my opinion. Her testimony is no different than that of a racist because she has a reason to hate zimmerman.

Originally posted by spacedog1973

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

How is it SPOTTY?
It is coming from a biased, unrecorded, source. There is no evidence that anything she says actually happened.

The neighbors, paramedics, and police have no real stake in the case. You are suggesting a HUGE conspiracy is more likely than the victim's girlfriend lying in an attempt to punish her boyfriends killer.

edit on 30-3-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

All witness testimony is biased. Thats why it is not overly valued. People have poor eyesight, people are racist, people lie etc. But that doesn't make it spotty. Spotty infers that it has been contradicted by other evidence, when it hasn't. When witness testimony can be backed by physical evidence, then it becomes more likley that it is the truth. So far, there is absoulutely no evidence to suggest that it is untruthful in any way.

Isn't Zimmermans statement also biased? His is THE most biased he has the most reason to lie. Would you not agree? Wouldn't Zimmerman also be capable of lying to protect the killer of her boyfriend?