Exclusive! First hand Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman Zimmerman Innocent Smoking Gun

Originally posted by spacedog1973

Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

On the ground facing down? So how was it that TM was the aggressor if he was face down when Zimmer got up?

So does that mean TM was shot in the back? Last I heard the medical examiner said that he saw ZERO marks on TM's hands (meaning he was not fighting anyone), and the only injury was the shot wound...

I dont even know the point of this post. I am not suggesting TM was the aggressor.

I was pointing out there is no way TM could of been the aggressor if he was face down... The fact that the examiner saw no marks of a fight suggests the same...

I also did not hear where he was shot, chest or back. That would mean a lot in determining my conclusion.

That was the point...

reply to post by spacedog1973


I don't know where you guys are trying to go with this.
Where is your evidence that Zimmerman followed the kid and confronted him? How do you know he doesn't stop in his tracks when they said "we don't need you to do that?" I think he may have continued following and watching for a few seconds, but then on the very same call he says he lost sight ofthe kid. I think then he turned around. So if he turned around the second they said to or 15 seconds later it doesn't matter because that isn't what led to the confrontation.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Because evidence suggest Zimmerman is telling the truth.
Past run ins really don't matter, but if you want to bring them in there was also a story about the school catching him with 20 some pieces of women's jewelry and a screwdriver in class. So it could be argued that he may have been casing the houses.

If you wanna play the if game.
Really what matters isn't their pasts as much as the witness, police, and paramedic statements and physical evidence (Martin shot in front from extremely close range, etc).

Past run ins matter as much as they help big a picutre about the individuals and lend credence to allegded actions where no direct evidence is availbe.

GZ didn't state that TM was involved in any offence. FACT. Thats as much as can be gleaned from any of TM's previous run ins with his school. Its should be mentioned that the jewllery was sent to the police and nothing was found. It should also be stated that he had no criminal record.

Conversly, GZ DOES have a record of prior arrest. He has a record of being sacked from a previous security job. Witnesses stated that he has been aggressive to a woman and injured here at work.

He has been arrested due to violence toward police
He had been involved in violence toward a prior partner.

These are factors that are important. If TM was seen by GZ in the midst of an offence, then TM's previous encounters with school authority would be relevant somewhat but given he was not charged, it is unlikely that would stand up.

reply to post by sealing


So Zimmerman was 7 foot tall?

Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz

Originally posted by spacedog1973

Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

On the ground facing down? So how was it that TM was the aggressor if he was face down when Zimmer got up?

So does that mean TM was shot in the back? Last I heard the medical examiner said that he saw ZERO marks on TM's hands (meaning he was not fighting anyone), and the only injury was the shot wound...

I dont even know the point of this post. I am not suggesting TM was the aggressor.

I was pointing out there is no way TM could of been the aggressor if he was face down... The fact that the examiner saw no marks of a fight suggests the same...

I also did not hear where he was shot, chest or back. That would mean a lot in determining my conclusion.

That was the point...

Im not saying he was or wasn't. But no-one saw the start of the fight. This was at the end of it as far as I know. Personally, I think there is no reason for TM to have started the fight due to a lack of motive. GZ was the neighbourhood watch guy. He had all the motive and history to start the fight. We know he has a history of previous violence.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Because evidence suggest Zimmerman is telling the truth.
Past run ins really don't matter, but if you want to bring them in there was also a story about the school catching him with 20 some pieces of women's jewelry and a screwdriver in class. So it could be argued that he may have been casing the houses.

If you wanna play the if game.
Really what matters isn't their pasts as much as the witness, police, and paramedic statements and physical evidence (Martin shot in front from extremely close range, etc).

School records are much different than criminal records. And past run ins absolutely matter, tell Treyvons lawyers and the court that past criminal record doesn't matter. It could also be argued that Zimmerman was profiling Treyvon based on the other 911 calls, like the one about the 7-9 y/o black boy....that could be argued could it not?
And if the evidence matters so much to you then why on the police tapes, 35 mins after the shooting, where Zimmerman shot Treyvon in fight for his life at very close range is there no visible blood on his shirt? He would have all sorts of Treyvons blood on him. I didn't see any signs of that in any of the tapes....did you? Witness are speaking to the media and saying that the police have put words in their mouths and completely ignored things they have said. There are at least 3 witness that have said police have either ignored their statements or told them they didn't hear things they said they heard. So yes those things are very important, but so is the past of the killer, zimmerman. Wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by pizzanazi75
reply to post by yeti101

 

And for doing 'more than he needed to' ... you know that pesky killing and all ... you dont think he deserves any punishment? He was studying criminal justice, he had conceal permit, that alone shows that he should have acted in the total opposite of how he acted instead of doing 'more than he needed to'....

might show it to you, but it don't prove it..

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

Where is your evidence that Zimmerman followed the kid and confronted him?

his girlfriend was on the phone to him and is a witness to this. Calls have been logged and confirmed. GZ followed him.

How do you know he doesn't stop in his tracks when they said "we don't need you to do that?"

See above

I think he may have continued following and watching for a few seconds, but then on the very same call he says he lost sight ofthe kid. I think then he turned around. So if he turned around the second they said to or 15 seconds later it doesn't matter because that isn't what led to the confrontation.

You don't know what led to the confrontation. no-one does. Thats the basis of the investigation.

I don't know where you guys are trying to go with this.

I'm going where the evidence seems to lead. To GZ's guilt so far.

reply to post by spacedog1973

That's exactly what I said... no motive for TM only for GZ, to try and be top cop and put an end to the break-ins.

GZ just did something really stupid that he is going to have to live with for the rest of his life. Right idea, wrong actions...

So yes I agree...

put zimmerman on trial and ask him under oath what exactly it was that he said when he murmured f*(*&^n coons?
maybe his memory will get a little fuzzy at that point...how conviiiiiiiennnnient!!! ask him why if he was having life threatening injuries (his head being bashed in, nose broken) why did he refuse medical treatment?

i'm sure his lawyer will not let him be asked anything.

well we will see the evidence, "bloody clothes" a detailed reenactment and map of the struggle.

for everybody defending zimmerman just make sure you never walk around looking suspicious an by suspicious i mean walking around wearing anything which can be remotely misconstrued as thuggish and while your at it dont dress like a hippie, dont get tatoos and dont shave your head, basically make sure you look like a typical perfect law abiding conservatively dressed citizen, anything else and you MUST BE UP TO NO GOOD and some overzealous ARMED wannabe cop might follow you around. and then you might have to explain yourself to someone that you dont know from adam. also make sure your kids do the same.

Originally posted by SmArTbEaTz
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

That's exactly what I said... no motive for TM only for GZ, to try and be top cop and put an end to the break-ins.

GZ just did something really stupid that he is going to have to live with for the rest of his life. Right idea, wrong actions...

I think his ideas were wrong from the outset. He was a self appointed neighbourhood watch guy from 2006 i think. Thats before they even had an official one in 2011.

His Uncle was a millionaire business man.
His father was a magistrate and Vietnam Vet.
George worked as a car salesman, a Security Guard and an Underwiter (current)

To me, there a level of 'proving to his family that he can be something too' in all of this, as a cause to his motives.

I think he overstepped the mark in his zealousness. If you look at his history, you can see that this could have happened years ago. He was a powerkeg waiting to go off.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by spacedog1973

 

I don't know where you guys are trying to go with this.
Where is your evidence that Zimmerman followed the kid and confronted him? How do you know he doesn't stop in his tracks when they said "we don't need you to do that?" I think he may have continued following and watching for a few seconds, but then on the very same call he says he lost sight ofthe kid. I think then he turned around. So if he turned around the second they said to or 15 seconds later it doesn't matter because that isn't what led to the confrontation.

The evidence that he followed the kid and confronted him comes from the girlfriend for one, she has stated this through Treyvons lawyers who have phone records she was on the phone with him 1 min before police arrived and found him dead. For two, he told the 911 dispatch .. 'are you following him' ... 'yes'..we dont need you to do that...so at very least we know he did follow him at one point...that is from Zimmermans own mouth.

What do you think led to the confrontation then? Do you think Treyvon decide to then start following Zimmerman and attack? His girlfriend says that at the point of confrontation that Treyvon says 'why are you following me/do you have a problem'....and zimmerman replies 'what are you doing here' and the girlfriend then indicates that she can hear what appears to be a shove....and then treyvons ear piece went to the ground and the call was cut off....

I believe Zimmerman says 'what are you doing around here' and then shows his gun in his waistband, maybe drawing it, maybe not, but making it known he has it, at that point Treyvon start to run, Zimmerman grabs him...thats the point where the ear piece comes out...treyvon starts screaming (heard on 911) and the scuffle started on the sidewalk, move to the grass where zimmereman got Treyvon to the ground (face down), drew his gun, maybe planning to use it, maybe thinking he would just use it to subdue....and it goes off, he stands up....Mary curtcher comes out at that point seeing Zimmerman over Treyvon.....

thats how I see that mystery 1 minute going down.

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
reply to post by LErickson

 

That video you posted is totally irrelevant..

Only when I posted it or was it irrelevant when the other two posters beat me to it as well?

For one it doesn't show what happened between Zimmerman and Trayvon.

Your point?
No one said the video had anything to do with who hit who first. It demonstrates some big holes in his DEFENSE though.

Two something looks out of place in this video.

Good cuz it came from the people on your side of the argument, not mine.

I thought it was raining that night? Everything seems dry. I don't know this video tells us nothing about what happened during the scuffle, regardless.

It tells us all kinds of things about the scuffle. It tells us his head was not being split open. He was not being beaten to within an inch of his life. He was not being punched repeatedly in the face. No one was shot to death while sitting on top of him.

This video looks staged if you ask me.

Good. I am glad you think that. It was squeezed too.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


No but when he
has a gun, he thinks he is.

reply to post by pizzanazi75


So if you assault someone but the school takes care of it internally it doesn't say as much about your character as if you assault someone and are arrested for it?

reply to post by pizzanazi75


Her word is just her word though. I think it would have been brought up sooner. I would like to see the source where it says she was on the phone one minute before police arrived (not calling but actually on the phone with him). I am saying he told his girlfriend the guy was following him and then didn't clarify if the guy had stopped. What does that matter. We know the guy followed him for at least a moment. He got away though we know that from Zimmerman's own report. So how did he get caught by Zimmerman as you suggest if Zimmerman lost sight of him and was returning to his truck to wait on police? Why didn't the kid go to his dad's gf if it was very nearby? Evidence suggest when he saw that Zimmerman stopped chasing him, he circled around and came back on him.

reply to post by sealing


Your mood is very Ironic. You definitely did drink the kool aid.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Ok.. you guys you aren't thinking about this without bias.
He did receive on sight medical treatment, when they say he refused treatment they mean he refused further treatment. That means he was cleaned and probably given liquid stitches, but he didn't go in an ambulance to have a head xray.

To me the suspected "F'n Coons" sounds more like an audio artifact. He is so mellow through out the call. He doesn't really cuss or anything. It's just kinda weird how it fits in, but you can't really understand it.

I believe Zimmerman says 'what are you doing around here' and then shows his gun in his waistband, maybe drawing it, maybe not, but making it known he has it, at that point Treyvon start to run, Zimmerman grabs him...thats the point where the ear piece comes out...treyvon starts screaming (heard on 911) and the scuffle started on the sidewalk, move to the grass where zimmereman got Treyvon to the ground (face down), drew his gun, maybe planning to use it, maybe thinking he would just use it to subdue....and it goes off, he stands up....Mary curtcher comes out at that point seeing Zimmerman over Treyvon.....

reply to post by pizzanazi75




That is all absolute speculation and let me tell you why it doesn't make sense. First it is unlikely that Zimmerman could catch the kid after he lost sight of him. The kid was a football player, he was likely very fast and could have been home in a matter of minutes if not seconds (depending on the size of the place). He was shot at extremely close range. So in order for him to have come into that range with Zimmerman he had to come back. That is where the TM supporters whole story falls apart. Also I think if it was Trayvon saying help they would be parading that around still, I believe it is disputed that it is Zimmerman. If that was wrong, if it wasn't Zimmerman they would still be playing that card heavy. So most likely it is Zimmerman begging for help on the tape.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by pizzanazi75

 

Her word is just her word though.

Thats obvious. Witness testimony is one of the poorest quality forms of evidence that can be presented at trial, if its the only form of evidence available, HOWEVER, witness testimony is the ONLY kind of evidence that can support GZ. There are other forms of evidence which support TM's position of an unjust killing.

I would like to see the source where it says she was on the phone one minute before police arrived (not calling but actually on the phone with him)

He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man...I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run. Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone.

I told him to run seconds before he was shot

I think it would have been brought up sooner

His girlfriend was probably the first witness to come forward following the public awareness of the case
.

Why didn't the kid go to his dad's gf if it was very nearby?

He was on his way to his father's when he was killed...

Evidence suggest when he saw that Zimmerman stopped chasing him, he circled around and came back on him.

There is NO evidence of this. If there is, present it.

edit on 30-3-2012 by spacedog1973 because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-3-2012 by spacedog1973 because: (no reason given)