North Korea directs missiles towards Australia

Originally posted by auswally
I have to ask. even if this is true. shooting a missile over any country is the REAL issue here

just my thoughts on it

Wal

Yeah, seeing as I'm in the U.S. I think we have even more of an issue to contend with. Here we are slipping into other countries without consent to hunt down terrorists, and we're about to tell NK that they can't fly a missile over your air space? Wouldn't that make us even more arrogant than what the world already considers us to be? We'll do it, of course, because believe it or not we love the Aussies. But it doesn't mean we have to love being in this position.

Originally posted by AaronWilson
reply to post by beam1

 

I was indeed serious. As well, sport is sport and all sides deserve equall cheering and respect. I generally stay out of sides debates due to the nature of humans to pick sides. (Our R-Complex loves doing that, its why we have a hierarchical system in all facits of life.) I am still confused why one side is allowed to do testing while another is not? I understand N.Korea has a bad track record for almost everything, but its just a missile test schedualed to crash into the ocean. You can get some pretty advanced hobby rocket kits that have full yaw control, I dont see anyone getting mad at me for sub orbital launches.

"bad track record"

Sport was just the concept, yes they both deserve cheering in sport.. Will you cheer for nk if they decide to hit another country?

What side are you on? Why dont you mind a country that is not our ally to point missles at australia? Thats like someone breaking into your house with a gun pointed at you, will you still be confused?

reply to post by beam1


You know what... I really wish i can convince my stupid government to stay out of everyone sh!t.. From the stuff im reading australia can clearly defend them selves..

From what you guys think we havnt won a war since ww2, i would love to see australia win ww3..

reply to post by beam1

What side are you on? Why dont you mind a country that is not our ally to point missles at australia? Thats like someone breaking into your house with a gun pointed at you, will you still be confused?

I am just trying to make sense of the complex global situation, I can't do a thing about it. Firstly North Korea is not dumb enough to fire a nuclear weapon without seeking its own annihilation. It is this kind of relationship that forces the UN security council to sit down and work through the problems. As more countries come under the spot light of nuclear participation, the platform to actually work responsibly through issues hardens and develops. With large long term projects between Asia and Australia, we do have a responsibility in the region.

From our political actions in supporting some of the lies going around I am not surprised someone is point a gun at our head. It is like listening to a crack addict hearing some of the junk going around in the media at times. Sure there are lots of conflict and insecurity going on, but when we can not be honest about the reasons for being their it is all bound to go down hill.

reply to post by kwakakev


I agree 100%! There is nothing we can do about whats going on...

All i know is that yes we can test missles, yes we have nukes etc... If your on our side have and test all you want but i do not want the other side to have them.. Call it greed, not fair etc. But unlike many on ats i love america and every other country that shares its same freedom.. I wouldnt want that to change by letting others that dont share our same freedom to practice in getting an upper hand on us.

I wouldnt want to live in NK would you? Would you want to live in places that dont even let a conversation like this happen on the internet? Or be killed over what religion you believe in.. A lot of ppl on ats think that if the u.s was to go down the world would be a better place, little do they know...

reply to post by beam1

If your on our side have and test all you want but i do not want the other side to have them.. Call it greed, not fair etc.

I call it establishing the pecking order, quite common for all mammal groups to do it. If a country is not strong enough to force its way into the nuclear club it has no right in being there. The establishment of self determination is a big part of the UN charter of human rights and it is quite clear that the full implementation of this consensus still has some way to go. I also agree that there is value with a free and open society, having somewhere like here to talk about 9/11 and other issues has helped a lot in understanding it.

As for being a citizen of NK, if I understood its history and culture I would be better positioned to understand it. Caught between China, Japan, Russia and America, with no real peace, just a long term stalemate. I would be tense too. Guns and bombs has been a very effective way to communicate in the past, as a world we really have to get over this form of national and cultural dialogue. I am fully down with the self defence part, but some of these assaults just appear to be perpetuating cycles of violence. Culture, competition, resources are all part of it.

Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by beam1

 

If your on our side have and test all you want but i do not want the other side to have them.. Call it greed, not fair etc.

I call it establishing the pecking order, quite common for all mammal groups to do it. If a country is not strong enough to force its way into the nuclear club it has no right in being there. The establishment of self determination is a big part of the UN charter of human rights and it is quite clear that the full implementation of this consensus still has some way to go. I also agree that there is value with a free and open society, having somewhere like here to talk about 9/11 and other issues has helped a lot in understanding it.

As for being a citizen of NK, if I understood its history and culture I would be better positioned to understand it. Caught between China, Japan, Russia and America, with no real peace, just a long term stalemate. I would be tense too. Guns and bombs has been a very effective way to communicate in the past, as a world we really have to get over this form of national and cultural dialogue. I am fully down with the self defence part, but some of these assaults just appear to be perpetuating cycles of violence. Culture, competition, resources are all part of it.

Nk put them selves in the psition they are in plain and simple, they demand and threat when they want or need something, their is a reason why we help train and protect south korea over north.. Nk has given many reasons to wipe them off the map and no one has done it yet so no one is perpetuating violence but them selves. They are not in a position to be aiming missles at any country. you dont get in the nuke club by force, its too late in the game to go that rout, you want nuke plants go about it the way other up and coming countries are doing it.

You are trying to understand something you already know.... We keep a very close eye on them cause they have a bad track record and whats the point in aiming missles at australia? All they want is attention and they keep going about it the wrong way.

I agree as a world every country should have equal power and desputes shouldnt lead to war but reality is that thats not the world we live in. We have enough nukes and missle testing as it is we dont need nk or any other country with more of it. We dont want to attack nk just cause, so nk should find other non violent means to make them selves relevent in the world and join a side to be protected by, sk did it..

reply to post by CaptainBeno

If it hits land then attacking N Korea would be justified and China would probably stay out of the conflict. The UN will have to have ba**s to authorise an invasion with the world's army but not US. US can supply the ammo, rockets, intelligence and advise. Funny how they can claim they do not have enough to eat but can waste their money on missiles and satellites. Next they'll say they want to put up a space station like China. Wonder what these people have for brains. Being unreliable is bad enough, living a dream when you cannot afford is even worse.

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by Foley03a4

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by maestromason
We Americans will not have it.

Hate our occupation of your country all that you want to.... but we will be there to protect you guys!

Yeah right! You mean from all the enemies that you created for us???? Jezz thank's.
Or will it be like WWII,Russia will get the job done and you'll take the credit.

edit on 24-3-2012 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)

Where does the "America think they won WW2" come from??? Seriously,Because of that movie 'Saving Private Ryan'? I was 7 years old learning about the battle for Stalingrad,Siege of Leningrad and so were my buddies. Every thread I see this America bashing,Most of us are in fact down to earth people. Yeah there are a few people here with that "Oh yeah America man,we're the best" attitude,and you all know what,I can't stand those folks. And I also can't stand our Government either. When criticizing the U.S. Governments action I kindly ask that you refer to it as the "U.S. Government" and not America. And BTW my family is from the south so we are not 'Yanks'.....................

What about the HBO series "The Pacific", it left out Australians completely with the only reference to them was "Theyre all fighting in Africa".

Which is a load of bs. If it was set in America I wouldn't of cared, but for the majority of the series it was in Australia and had NO reference to Australians fighting in New Guinea at all.

Absolutely disgusting, this is why Americans believe they saved Australia, because their media has fed them BUllShIt

I for one do not think we saved Australia,Hollywood is known for making illogical BS. I don't take a television series as a reference..

Originally posted by Foley03a4

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by Foley03a4

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by maestromason
We Americans will not have it.

Hate our occupation of your country all that you want to.... but we will be there to protect you guys!

Yeah right! You mean from all the enemies that you created for us???? Jezz thank's.
Or will it be like WWII,Russia will get the job done and you'll take the credit.

edit on 24-3-2012 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)

Where does the "America think they won WW2" come from??? Seriously,Because of that movie 'Saving Private Ryan'? I was 7 years old learning about the battle for Stalingrad,Siege of Leningrad and so were my buddies. Every thread I see this America bashing,Most of us are in fact down to earth people. Yeah there are a few people here with that "Oh yeah America man,we're the best" attitude,and you all know what,I can't stand those folks. And I also can't stand our Government either. When criticizing the U.S. Governments action I kindly ask that you refer to it as the "U.S. Government" and not America. And BTW my family is from the south so we are not 'Yanks'.....................

What about the HBO series "The Pacific", it left out Australians completely with the only reference to them was "Theyre all fighting in Africa".

Which is a load of bs. If it was set in America I wouldn't of cared, but for the majority of the series it was in Australia and had NO reference to Australians fighting in New Guinea at all.

Absolutely disgusting, this is why Americans believe they saved Australia, because their media has fed them BUllShIt

I for one do not think we saved Australia,Hollywood is known for making illogical BS. I don't take a television series as a reference..

But the truth is imagine if Australia made a movie about the American Revolution but didn't show Americans at all and merely said "they're all fighting over in Canada".

Its the exact same thing that you did to us, the Battle for Australia was OUR conflict that we won, yet they didn't show us at all.

reply to post by beam1


So what would you do if an invading force took over half of your country? They have every right to be paranoid, insecure and distrusting as boarder skirmishes still continue today. A lot of support and pressure was applied by Russia and China to stop the US invasion during the Korean War. A big problem is that America never bothered to ask, like the British did with Singapore which was a great success. They just went in with the guns and tried to get as far as they can. Reconciliation has yet to be achieved with the boarder between north and south Korea a big fault line between Eastern and Western nations.

If NK feels more secure in having nukes, good as it means they can finally feel some peace with national sovereignty. Foreign relations will continue to be a bloody mess while it is all me, me, me at the discussions with Israel and Palestinian just one of many examples. A key component of conflict resolution is in understanding the other parties grievances. While some things cannot be undone, the more we understand the actual problem the better capable we are in addressing it.

Another possibility is that NK wants a war.

The population are starving, production is crap. The only thing thats somewhat steady is the military, and with the old man gone who knows who is really calling the shots, lots of generals and high ranking officials in the system.

History shows that after wars the country destroyed gets rebuilt and modernized.

The could see a war as the only way out with honor.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


These types of conflicts do take generations to heal, Jerusalem is still getting argued over thousands of years later. The new NK leader does appear a bit more receptive to peace, he is still pretty young so depends on what type of guidance he gets. So far I have been happy with what little I have heard.

If I was running a country like N.K. and my business is to test missiles and point them to where ever I want in the hopes that no one else will know the exact trajectory of that missile, I would be a bit worry if one of my men finds this thread indicating that U.S.A. Intelligence knew that trajectory!

Unless of course, I wanted them to know to see what they will do or how much they know!

Anything with the U.S.A. involvement in anything is always bad news in my eyes (IMO)!

reply to post by kwakakev


Last i checked north korea started the war with the south.. Nk wanted/has a comunist government wile the south has a democracy. Considering that sk has had a much better success, if i was the leader, i would put my pride aside for my ppl sign a peace treaty and join in on the success..

I would not be spending money on missle pointing knowing damn well i dont have a fighting chance, if china didnt step in sk would have owned nk. Like i said it is too late in the game to try to get what you want by force, if you dont already have nukes it is pointless to try to get it by threats..

Im sorry but i just do not agree with you on letting them test missles just cause we can. If what you want is world peace then why in the world you feel its ok to let every other coutry point missles at our allies? I understand you feel bad for them cause everyone is against nk but its like i said before, they put them selves in that position and just continue to dig that hole.

After all the attack they have done to sk recently no one has wiped them off the map yet so again why do they keep provoking? Why keep trying by force, why not just do a peace treaty and call it a day..

By the way sk asked us to protect them they didnt want a commy gov.. Look how thing turned out for the south and north.. Complain about america all you want but from the looks of thing sk is a success, cant say that about the north now can you...

reply to post by phalanx001

It used to be China's puppet when both China and N Korea were reclusive back in the 50s and 60s. China has moved forward but N Korea is still caught in the time capsule. They are a pain in China's as** if you know what I mean, creating problems in the region which will ultimately drag China into the fray. China should have annexed the Korean Peninsula back in the old Tang Dynasty days so that now Korea would just be another province of China and the Korean language would just be the local dialect. Despite the numerous dynasties in China none wanted the Korean Peninsula. Really baffles me.

Originally posted by beam1
reply to post by kwakakev

 

China had to step in because she would not want to have American military bases and missile installations on the Korean Peninsula just next door just like the Americans did not want Soviet missiles in Cuba. Its normal and not out of the ordinary. Back then things were not so one sided. Today with economics used as a weapon also....things are however not the same and you do not see much drastic retaliations.

reply to post by kwakakev

If I am not mistaken this young man had his education in Switzerland and stayed in the school's hostel. Being exposed to the Western culture I am sure he will want to turn his country around but he needs time. The "old guards" would have to retire off before he could implement any drastic changes.

It wouldn't surprise me if this is being done for the sole purpose of trying to gain a little leverage when bargaining for humanitarian aid. NK receives a lot of $$$ in aid and I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting even more of it.

reply to post by beam1


Obama has just given his comments on the issue:

Obama again told North Korea on Monday to abandon its nuclear ambitions, warning its erratic and provocative behaviour would not be rewarded. 'By now it should be clear, your provocations and pursuit of nuclear weapons have not achieved the security you seek, they have undermined it,' he said. 'And know this - there will be no more rewards for provocations. Those days are over. This is the choice before you. This is the decision you must make.'

bigpondnews.com...

South Korea got set up as the next step and a sink for military conflict after America knocked out Japan. Over time, with a new political system and global support it has demonstrated its capabilities compared to the North. Too much sudden change is generally a bad thing, now the next generation gets a chance to see what parts work and gradually adapt in a more localised and appropriate way. Similar to how British rule of Singapore for 200 years allowed for many trade and cultural ties to establish and better assist long term Foreign Relations.

If what you want is world peace then why in the world you feel its ok to let every other coutry point missles at our allies?

It does make for a more level playing field when everyone has a gun at the table, otherwise it is more of a stand over situation. Before all the globalist go getting the eraser back on the map, I do have a lot of respect for the North Koreans and the environment they have had to live in. When the day comes to go kick ET's butt, I would be happy to have them on my six.

At the moment they have been stuck between thousands of years of conflict between China and Japan and more recently getting hotter with US and Russia also clashing in the region. I do agree with slanteye that if anyone is going to pick up the pieces it will be China.