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"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

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posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


ZImmerman was told -repeatedly- BY POLICE not to engage suspicious persons. Just because this time was a 911 operator means nothing.




posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


"Giving up the right to claim" = the claim will not stick.

It is a legal parlance not to be taken as literal inability to claim self-defense. You are absolutely correct.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by Freenrgy2
 


You scenario doesn't make sense.


Makes perfect sense if you step into GZ's shoes for a second.


Why am I following someone larger than myself that I believe is a criminal?


Assumption on your part. GZ thought Martin looked suspicious.


Why did I follow closely enough to be able to be struck by said individual?


GZ didn't. He got out of his SUV because he lost sight on him. Only when he turned and headed back to his SUV did Martin approach him.


How did said individual know I was carrying a gun unless it was exposed?


Oh, I don't know. You have it tucked in a side holster and as your attacker is beating you he spots it. Does it really have to be exposed?


Could said individual be frightened for his life because some man with a gun that he doesn't know is harassing him?


Did he know GZ had a gun BEFORE he started attacking him? Another assumption on your part.
edit on 27-3-2012 by Freenrgy2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by Annee
 


"Giving up the right to claim" = the claim will not stick.

It is a legal parlance not to be taken as literal inability to claim self-defense. You are absolutely correct.


I understand Zimmerman's lawyer said he did not "qualify" for Stand Your Ground - - - so they were going to go for Self Defense.

I don't know what else they could/would use.

Of course - - - I'm taking the statement from the lawyer as hearsay until factually verified.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by Freenrgy2
 


Wow..

What are you talking about?

I thought we were doing role playing.. I guess it was just a thinly veiled attempt to try to inject your own supposition into a scenario you have no idea about since you were not there and the only person that was there is someone who is not trustworthy as he has previously filed a false police report claiming an assault that never happened.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Aye, hence the "Trayvon went for my gun" angle that is now creeping into the scenario.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Annee
 



He was working as an extension of law enforcement.

He probably also took calls for fires.
Does that make him a firefighter?

He would have taken calls for accidents and injuries..... Was he an EMT also?

What about when a drunk miss-dialed 911, would he be a bartender then?



I do not think Annee is saying he is Law Enforcement, but he IS a representative of Law Enforcement. Who do you think sets the protocols and standards for 911 dispatchers? You do realize that 911 operators are hired by the department right? The average 911 Operator undergoes 6 months of training before ever taking a call on their own. This is why 911 Operators are held to very high standards.

The training for a 911 Operator is no joke. They have to be pretty well versed in laws, procedures, and medical situations. The 911 Operator is not an EMT- but when you dont have an EMT around, they can be the next best thing.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by Freenrgy2
]Why did I follow closely enough to be able to be struck by said individual?



GZ didn't. He got out of his SUV because he lost sight on him. Only when he turned and headed back to his SUV did Martin approach him
.

This is not GZ's story. GZ told police he got out of his truck to see what street he was on. Which brings up a whole new set of questions. You have a man who has been patrolling this area for years, yet he doesn't know the street names?



Could said individual be frightened for his life because some man with a gun that he doesn't know is harassing him?


Did he know GZ had a gun BEFORE he started attacking him? Another assumption on your part.
edit on 27-3-2012 by Freenrgy2 because: (no reason given)


Weather or not Martin knew GZ had a gun or not is irrelevant. Martin could have just as easily been scared because he was being followed by a Stranger in a truck, in the dark.
edit on 27-3-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by Annee
 


Aye, hence the "Trayvon went for my gun" angle that is now creeping into the scenario.


Even if its true that Trayvon tried to grab Zimmerman's gun - - - - who created the situation for this to happen?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 



The training for a 911 Operator is no joke. They have to be pretty well versed in laws, procedures, and medical situations. The 911 Operator is not an EMT- but when you dont have an EMT around, they can be the next best thing.
Oh, if it isn't, some operators are a joke.


The latest such mistake to make headlines involved Gina Conteh, a 12-year veteran 911 operator in Atlanta, who according to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, had amassed a 2,100-page personnel file documenting such problems as falling asleep at her desk, getting into heated screaming matches with co-workers that earned her a trip to anger-management classes, and scores of reports of mishandled calls. sleeping 911 operators ABC News Photo Illustration Recent 911 operator mishaps have critics... View Full Caption But none of those mishaps or the other problems reportedly documented in her file caused Conteh to lose her job, that is, until Aug. 2, 2008. On that afternoon, authorities said Conteh gave the wrong address to ambulance drivers responding to a distress call from a woman, Darlene Dukes, who was feeling sick. While police and paramedics worked for more than half an hour on Dukes, desperately waiting for the ambulance to arrive, she eventually died of a blood clot in her lung and Conteh was fired.



ABC News Thank God they are so good.

Google " 911 operator errors" then you can see how great they are. They are not cops, they are not EMT's and they are not firemen.

Chances are that the protocol for them are written by bureaucrats. See government...... Cops don't write much more than reports and tickets.




edit on 27-3-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 



They have to be pretty well versed in laws

Even the cops are not 'well versed in the laws'.

Ask one some real questions on the laws sometime. I have, wasn't impressed either.... when you figure these guys are in charge of arresting you if you break these laws.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
" 911 operator errors" then you can see how great they are. They are not cops, they are not EMT's and they are not firemen.

Chances are that the protocol for them are written by bureaucrats. See government...... Cops don't write much more than reports and tickets.


Bully for you.

One thing about the internet - - - you can always find someone to support your viewpoint.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Zimmerman is clearly a man with some issues.

I am actually surprised that his council isn't trying to establish some sort of mental instability.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 
Maybe if someone close to you died because of a failure that was a 911 operator, you would see them for what they are.

Instead, you see the New Black panthers as having a few bad apples.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Some Operators are a joke. They do make mistakes. That is why when they do, it is such a big deal. Had the 911 Operator in THIS case failed to Zimmerman to not follow Martin, we would be having a whole different discussion about how this 911 Operator failed in doing his job properly. I am not going to cloud this issue with what other 911 Operators have done in other cases. Let us talk about THIS 911 Operator who acted appropriately and did the right things.

And yes, some cops don't even know the law. Which is why this topic even exist now. Had the Police Department investigated this properly and interviewed everyone right away, there would be no special investigation now.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Furbs
reply to post by Annee
 


Zimmerman is clearly a man with some issues.

I am actually surprised that his council isn't trying to establish some sort of mental instability.


It would seem so. At least on some level.

I feel sorry for him. I don't think he ever intended to hurt anyone. I think this falls under a terrible accident (of sorts) - - - as a result of Zimmerman creating the situation for it to happen.

Because Zimmerman is responsible for creating the situation - - - that resulted in a death - - - I do believe that falls under Manslaughter.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 
Let me ask you, If a 911 operator gives you an order, are you legally obliged to follow that order?

Do they have that power?



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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THERE WERE 62 NEW REPORTED BURGLARIES IN THE AREA *SINCE* TRAYVON MOVED
INTO THE AREA (cause his Parents didn't want him anymore), ALL
BURGLARIES IMMEDIATELY STOPPED AFTER TRAYVON WAS KILLED. He needed money
to buy drugs that he was using (hence empty bag) and distributing. HE
WAS FOUND WITH OTHER WOMENS STOLEN JEWELRY IN HIS BACKPACK. I wonder if
anyone has yet asked his "girlfriend" who's Womens' Jewelry he was
collecting!! OOOOooooooh. That hurts. Why did he have old lady's
jewelry stuffed in his backpack when he was detained for assaulting that
Bus Driver? THEN, THE BURGLARIES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD MYSTERIOUSLY
STOPPED!!!!!!



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Well it is not an order to begin with. To my knowledge they can not order you to do something. They advise.

Now this is very key to my argument that I have been making. When someone, like a 911 Operator, advises you to do something. You have a choice to follow the advise or not follow the advise.

If you choose to not follow the advise, you assume all the risk that comes with that decision. This goes right to the heart of weather or not George Zimmerman's decision to not listen to the Operator constitutes Negligence on his part. If it does, and that negligence has lead to to the death of another, that is involuntary manslaughter.



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