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"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." - Obama. What the MSM isn't telling you.

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posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by The Old American
 





Except nobody but Trayvon and Zimmerman know who the first physical aggressor was. You're still working on assumption and not intelligence. You really need to stop now. It's getting pathetic.


Wrong. We have always known who the first aggressor was. Zimmerman chased down martin and cornered him. Sounds aggressive to me. It has been proven.

And great, an insult. Arent you mature.




posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 





See its this weird twisting of facts that is embarrassing. Martin was chased down by Zimmerman. Zimmerman was not "just attacked" for no reason. He seeked a confrontation with Martin. Not Self defense no matter how you look at it.

Okay, I didn't realize that there was an eyewitness that saw the fight begin and that Zimmerman had started a physical altercation. I guess when you post the link, I will know that.
There is an eyewitness to a physical altercation, where Martin was beating Zimmerman, not vice versa.
edit on 24-3-2012 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by SonoraUndergroundLabs
reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


I already know what I need to know about you and your history. Computers do wonders when the you have a brain. In the end we all end up in the ground some way or another so see ya on the other side pal. Believe what you think. We shall all soon see


Yes, yes, very scary. So... you either hacked my comp or searched my screen name? I hope its the latter. Either way, that's pretty weird way to go about things.

Reveal my secret history for all to see! Reveal for me! Reveal for all! I have no secrets, except the secrets I have! And if you posses them, then please share them! Share them, my little friend.

(on a side : I am impressed at your prowess)

lol the last refuge of the ignorant
threats & violence

lol
don't worry tsuki,when ya curb stomp him
we all know it was self defense



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


We know that Trayvon was running away and Zimmerman was chasing him.


Now...since when is running away considered an agressive action???



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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I intentionally waited a few days before really forming an opinion about this whole thing because I knew that as the hours passed more and more "evidence" would present itself and maybe change my perspective. It is now apparent that the ebb and flow of this issue will probably continue because it (this case) has been so over-fueled by the MSM. They suck and frankly if you want the truth about anything you are probably better off "looking inward".

Take a look at the OP (beginning of the thread) and look to the last couple of replies. It tells the whole story. If you have the time after reading the beginning and the end...then go back and read all of the stuff in between. Not so surprising to me is that constructive dialogue has morphed in to destructive banter. Oh sure, people have their strongest opinions about racially charged and emotional cases that involve a boy's life coming to a tragic halt; and that's probably what led to this deterioration, BUT this kind of S**T victimizes all of the observers, concerned citizens and those who can count themselves in as caring. Anyone who has taken the time to voice their opinion in this thread cares -- at some human level.

We are all in here looking for the truth and we are clearly better at arriving at the truth when we work together. Division is what is at the heart of racism...fear is what stops us from fixing it. This is not about race!!! One human being took another human being's life. Why? None of us really knows for sure...right now.

I am not hedging on sharing my opinion here (about the case)...read on. I just hope that we can all gather some useful data to come to conclusions and form our own opinions that lead to the truth...

This is-- what I am considering:

1. Both of the 911 tapes that I heard certainly make me question Mr. Zimmerman's intent and position in this. The 911 call that he made sounds almost too calm and is inconsistent with his muffled commentary ("these a**holes always get away"). At that point Zimmerman had only observed a person who was NOT breaking any laws. He assumed that Trayvon Martin was potentially one of the people responsible for area break-ins. The second 911 tape recorded someone screaming for help. That definitely did not sound like a full-grown adult male. Now having a 14 year-old son myself, I find it much easier to subscribe to the theory that it was Trayvon's screams that we heard. BTW, my son is 6 feet tall and weighs approximately 160 pounds. There are those of you who will inevitably argue that there was "eyewitness" testimony and accounting that disqualify my opinion. My response to that is that there seems to be "eyewitness" testimony and accounting that supports my opinion as well. Hell, if we wait a few more days, I'm sure there will be more testimony and accounting of another theory. Like I said before; just opinions-- because I think that the facts are all ready skewed in this very high-profile case.

2. I don't care what the "splitting hairs" version of the law is. That dispatcher told Zimmerman NOT to pursue Trayvon! This is the same man (Zimmerman) who stated that he held law enforcement in the highest regard in writing. This bull of him pursuing the boy is definitely a vigilante approach. Let's not forget that Mr. Zimmerman had been previously criticized by the members of HIS community for having a bit of an overzealous approach to his "watch" position. This is a WATCH position.

3. Here's the part that adds up even less for me. Zimmerman claims that he was attacked while getting into his truck. I suspect that he had the gun on him all ready and if not it would be logical to assume that it was in his truck??? Here are some alternative measures if this were the case. Turn or not and point the gun at Trayvon and order him away from your vehicle. I suspect that throwing Skittles at Zimmerman while he (Zimmermman) pops off a few rounds would not have been the logical approach that Trayvon would have taken. I'm gonna guess that the threat of firing the gun or maybe even a warning shot would have bought Zimmerman enough time to get in his truck, lock the door and drive away.

Something isn't adding up here...this story stinks. I don't care if Trayvon sold babies on the black market...He was unarmed and was not committing any crime. He was killed (murdered) just based upon the fact that MR. Zimmerman DECIDED to pursue Trayvon. IMHO.

MY OPINION for what its worth.

Peace.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by The Old American
 





Except nobody but Trayvon and Zimmerman know who the first physical aggressor was. You're still working on assumption and not intelligence. You really need to stop now. It's getting pathetic.


Wrong. We have always known who the first aggressor was. Zimmerman chased down martin and cornered him. Sounds aggressive to me. It has been proven.

And great, an insult. Arent you mature.


You missed the word "physical", genius. Until you put your hands on someone, physical force is not justified under the law. But keep posting. It's getting kind of funny.

/TOA



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by TsukiLunar
 





See its this weird twisting of facts that is embarrassing. Martin was chased down by Zimmerman. Zimmerman was not "just attacked" for no reason. He seeked a confrontation with Martin. Not Self defense no matter how you look at it.

Okay, I didn't realize that there was an eyewitness that saw the fight begin and that Zimmerman had started a physical altercation. I guess when you post the link, I will know that.


No, you misunderstand. No one knows who threw the first hit. And, quite frankly, it does not matter. Zimmerman went and chased and cornered someone FOR NO REASON. No matter how you look at it, Zimmerman was looking for some sort of confrontation. When you go and actively pick fights with a scared child, which is what Zimmerman did, you can not claim self defense.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by butcherguy
 


We know that Trayvon was running away and Zimmerman was chasing him.


Now...since when is running away considered an agressive action???
It is not, it is considered evasive.

There is an eyewitness that places Martin on top of Zimmerman, beating him.

That may be considered aggressive, I believe.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by xEphon
 
Stalked?By Trayvon's girlfriends account Trayvon told her he was being followed he did not seem worried.When his girlfriend told him to run he said no he would just walk fast.Her next statement was that when Zimmerman approached he asked a simple question.(Sorry I am just stating witness accounts and not speculating)The next witness account (remember they were there and not you) states that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman as he was walking back to his car.Now I am asking how can you turn this into stalking?By the witness accounts including Trayvons girlfriend's.Zimmerman was not being aggressive.I feel sorry for you as you have been decived by the MSM.If they didn't have a agenda and would post current pics of Trayvon and both sides of the story.I might see where you are coming from.If your opinion didn;t change with the whole story



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT



ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.
www.myfoxtampabay.com...



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by The Old American
 





Except nobody but Trayvon and Zimmerman know who the first physical aggressor was. You're still working on assumption and not intelligence. You really need to stop now. It's getting pathetic.


Wrong. We have always known who the first aggressor was. Zimmerman chased down martin and cornered him. Sounds aggressive to me. It has been proven.

And great, an insult. Arent you mature.


You missed the word "physical", genius. Until you put your hands on someone, physical force is not justified under the law. But keep posting. It's getting kind of funny.

/TOA


Chasing down someone and corning them for NO REASON sounds physical aggressive to me. We have no idea who layed hands on who first. So stop acting like you do.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by sonnny1
 


www.huffingtonpost.com...



"Obviously, this is a tragedy," he said. "I can only imagine what these parents are going through, and when I think about this boy, I think about my own kids, and I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this, and that everybody pulls together -- federal, state and local -- to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened."


I cant see him polarizing anyone. He was asked about it, and gave diplomatic answer in my opinion.

To paraphrase his entire response: "I understand this is a tragedy and how the parents feel, having kids of my own i would be devastated if this happened to them. I am glad to see that law enforcement is working together to find out how this happened."

He did not take a side if I am missing something show me please. I am truly curios as to why exactly everyone is bashing Obama for doing the exact opposite of what they are bashing him for.
edit on 24-3-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)


Well, hes "Personalizing" the situation.Saying "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," goes beyond a diplomatic way of doing it. Second,Hes done NOTHING to "personalize" all the other cases like this either. There are TOO many cases like this,but this one is something special,that he has to personalize,or feel the need to get in the way of ? I cant buy coincidence,to personalize this particular case. Just cant .



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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This happened over a month ago. You just now hear about it, and instead of thinking critically are you going to jump to conclusions based on your "race" or "white mans' burden" or buyout of your emotions already running high.? i mean this stinks to me. It is so sad when anyone loses their life at such a young age especially somebody already headed on the wrong track before a second chance. What kind of music was the the young man listen to? Music has such an effect on young people. Especially negative forms of entertainment. Why was he suspended for eight days? At what hour of the day was it? Where was his mother? Was it after curfew?
Look at who is involved. NAACP and Nation of Islam? Was he Islamic or maybe US pseudo-Islam is just the anti white religion so good enough. why isn't louis farrakhan and jesse jackson being hit by DHS for hate speech? Distractions from Sherif Joe? I don't know could be! We all need to slow down. There its an agenda to this. It sinks. This boys death and its fog of actions are being exploited IMHO. I even read an article on HuffPost saying Zimmerman (Jewish Last name) lived in a WHITE HISPANIC NEIGHBORHOOD. What does that mean? Breitbart warned its before his death Obama was not done with the racial division be careful. Read my signature. Be careful ATS community.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal

Originally posted by stanats

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by sjorges2002
And the skittles on him could have been used to announce that he was skittling.- Know one but Trayvon knows and he's been shot dead for attacking zimmerman.

reply to post by TsukiLunar
 




Or he was eating the skittles and where is your proof that Martin attacked Zimmerman first?
edit on 24-3-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)


The obvious answer to your question is another question. Where is your proof that things didn't occur as Mr. Zimmerman described it? He is innocent until proven guilty.
edit on 24-3-2012 by stanats because: spelling


The proof that it did not happen the way Zimmerman says it happened is in the public statement of Martin's girlfriend who claims to have been on the phone with Martin at the time. This fact was confirmed from the local news who pulled the phone records that showed, Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend just prior to the shooting.

She states that Martin told her he was being followed. He tried to run. At some point, Zimmerman approaches Martin. At this point Martin asked, "Why are you following me?" Zimmerman replied, "What are you doing here" and which point the phone call id disconnected and she speculates Martin was pushed which caused the headset to fall off.


The problem here is that local police claim that Zimmerman was justified. Many people disagree. There was no chance for innocent until proven guilty. The Police decided he was innocent. As you can tell from this thread, there are many questions that have not been answered.


Your doing it again....you have no idea of how the system works do you? The Police do not judge innocence or guilt. When they have facts that a crime has been committed, they charge and arrest the "accused". The Police, at the time of this incident, had witness statements and DID NOT have facts that a crime was committed.

If facts arise later, the prosecutor will issue an arrest warrant for the accused and have the police arrest them. If the family wants an inquiry, they can request it. Even a Grand Jury Investigation, which is the direction this case has gone.

Got it....hope you understand it now????



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by OutKast SearcherYou are flat out lying Trayvon told his girlfriend he wouldn't run.He would walk fast in any event Zimmerman approached and asked a question.The next witness states that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman .
 



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:08 PM
link   
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT



ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.
www.myfoxtampabay.com...



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by The Old American
 





Except nobody but Trayvon and Zimmerman know who the first physical aggressor was. You're still working on assumption and not intelligence. You really need to stop now. It's getting pathetic.


Wrong. We have always known who the first aggressor was. Zimmerman chased down martin and cornered him. Sounds aggressive to me. It has been proven.


And great, an insult. Arent you mature.


Proven? Proven by who....you? Please don't think that high of yourself....you all crack me up, LOL!



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 



Zimmerman went and chased and cornered someone
where did Zimmerman corner Martin? Who witnessed that taking place?

No misunderstanding. I asked for a link that showed the eyewitness that saw Zimmerman get physical with Martin.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


Thats just unfair. He was just saying he empathized with the family, which we can all do. People here are claiming he twisted and is using this to his gain, but none of his statements reflect that.

He did not condemn Zimmerman, he did not play any sort of race card. All he did was empathize with a grieving family and say "let the justice system handle it". How is that wrong? I dont understand.



posted on Mar, 24 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by The Old American
 





Except nobody but Trayvon and Zimmerman know who the first physical aggressor was. You're still working on assumption and not intelligence. You really need to stop now. It's getting pathetic.


Wrong. We have always known who the first aggressor was. Zimmerman chased down martin and cornered him. Sounds aggressive to me. It has been proven.

And great, an insult. Arent you mature.


You missed the word "physical", genius. Until you put your hands on someone, physical force is not justified under the law. But keep posting. It's getting kind of funny.

/TOA


Chasing down someone and corning them for NO REASON sounds physical aggressive to me. We have no idea who layed hands on who first. So stop acting like you do.


Wow, talk about twisting facts! I have never once said I think either started anything. I believe what I said was:


However, there is no evidence for or against Trayvon or Zimmerman throwing the first punch.


Your lies and assumptions are here for all to see, however. Again, please keep posting them. It's hilarious!

/TOA



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