School has children make their own paddles.

I honestly didn't know there were still schools in the US that still used corporal punishment. They used it on me when I was a kid and I didn't turn out TOO crazy (although the jury's still out on that).

At one Florida school, students make the paddles used in spankings

“You can’t buy them anywhere,” Dixon said, according to StateImpact, a partnership of local public media and National Public Radio. “There’s not a market for them, so yeah, students make it.”

The report didn't say how many paddles a school the size of Holmes County High, with about 500 students, might need. An attempt by msnbc.com to contact Dixon by telephone was not successful Thursday evening.

Florida is among 19 states that allow school staff to use corporal punishment, according to the Center for Effective Discipline. Other states allowing corporal punishment: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming.

MSN

Of course, the federal Gubment has to stick their nose into the issue and seeks to pass a law to outlaw all corporal punishment in schools citing the obligitory "studies indicate that corporal punishment in schools has a negative effect on students".

For now, the legislation is tied up in comittee and doesn't look like it will go anywhere.

Ending Corporal Punishment in Schools Act introduced

Data collected by the U.S. Department of Education’s Office of Civil Rights shows that over 220,000 students in 20 states, in schools across the country are corporally punished, and studies indicate that corporal punishment in schools has a negative effect on students. Children of color and with disabilities experience corporal punishment at disproportionate rates. This legislation aims to alleviate this and promote positive school cultures and climates.

Additionally, data shows there is no evidence that corporal punishment is an effective disciplinary tool or that it results in academic success.

School Safety Partners

I checked on these "S tudies" and, in my opinion, most are biased against corporal punishment from the get-go and sought to disprove the effectiveness of corporal punishment.

I found one that seems to be unbiased. It states that while corporal punishment comes with the risk of turning into abuse, it does increase compliance on the part of the child.

Is Corporal Punishment an Effective Means of Discipline?

"That these two disparate constructs should show the strongest links to corporal punishment underlines the controversy over this practice. There is general consensus that corporal punishment is effective in getting children to comply immediately while at the same time there is caution from child abuse researchers that corporal punishment by its nature can escalate into physical maltreatment," Gershoff writes.

But, Gershoff also cautions that her findings do not imply that all children who experience corporal punishment turn out to be aggressive or delinquent. A variety of situational factors, such as the parent/child relationship, can moderate the effects of corporal punishment. Furthermore, studying the true effects of corporal punishment requires drawing a boundary line between punishment and abuse. This is a difficult thing to do, especially when relying on parents' self-reports of their discipline tactics and interpretations of normative punishment.

APA.org

I think the federal gubment should keep its nose out of the business of the states. If a state wants to allow corporal punishment in their schools, that should be the business of the people of that state and nobody else. Let the state determine, on an individual basis, whether corporal punishment is effective and keep the feds out of it.

This, of course, is a very sensitive subject. One study that I did find, regarding corporal punishment in schools as a disciplinary approach, found that for students with disabilities, such as autism, corporal punishment would be devastating:

www.hrw.org...

Landon K., a six-year-old boy with autism, was in first grade at his Mississippi elementary
school when his assistant principal, “a big, 300-lb man, picked up an inch thick paddle and
paddled him [on the buttocks].” His grandmother, Jacquelyn K., reported, “my child just lost
it ... he was screaming and hollering ... it just devastated him.” Jacquelyn knew that paddling
was harmful for children with autism: “I had already signed a form saying they couldn’t
paddle. I sent that form in every year ... When a child with autism has something like that
happen, they don’t forget it. It’s always fresh in their minds.”
Landon was traumatized and became terrified of school. “He was a nice, quiet, calm boy,”
noted Jacquelyn, but after the paddling, “he was screaming, crying, we had to call the
ambulance, they had to sedate him ... The next day, I tried to take him to school, but I
couldn’t even get him out of the house. He was scared of going over there, scared it would
happen again ... We carried him out of the house, he was screaming. We got him to school
but had to bring him back home ... Now he has these meltdowns all the time. He can’t focus,
he cries.”
Jacquelyn withdrew Landon from school, fearing for his physical safety and mental health.
She was threatened by truant officers: “[They] said I’d go to jail if I didn’t send him back to
school ... If I felt he would have been safe in school, he would have been there. I’m sure they
would have paddled him again. I don’t trust them. If they don’t know what they’re dealing
with, how can they teach a child? And the sad thing about it, he can learn. He can learn.”1
* * *
Jonathan C., a 15-year-0ld boy with autism, was repeatedly subjected to corporal punishment
at his Florida school. On October 2, 2008, for example, he was picked up by a male staff
member and thrown “into the tile floor, face-first,” after screaming in the cafeteria and
running away from a staff member. Staff members dragged him to a meeting room, where
the male staff member “put him in a chokehold. Other staff members [came] running. Three
or four of them tackle[d] him, and he [was] thrown to the floor again.” The staff members
used their strength and body weight to pin Jonathan, face-down, to the floor.

Regardless, I tend to believe that the corporal punishment decision, should be left to the parents, not school officials. Just from a practical point, the school districts employing corporal punishment risk being hit with a huge law suit, if a child is injured. Whether it stops the bad behavior or not, I believe that the risks far outweigh the benefits, and would urge that districts find a better way to modify behavior of students. Just my opinion.

I think a good source of info on this subject would be a book (which you can download for free) called "A bomb in the brain" by stefan molyneux, you can download it from his website "freedomain radio"

I mean could we use paddles in our everyday lives? Say someone didn't like the way you spoke to them, could they start hitting you with a paddle? Wouldn't that be assault?

If your dog misbehaved, can you hit your dog with a paddle?

Violence should never be acceptable under any circumstance barring self defense! It goes against logic for an adult to hit a child.

Originally posted by mee30

Violence should never be acceptable under any circumstance barring self defense! It goes against logic for an adult to hit a child.

Someone should tell that to the guys in our State Department and all those guys we have hanging out in Iraq and Afganistan.

I think there are pros and cons to this whole debate but, I don't think the federal gubment should get involved with the internal matters inside the states. Let each state decide whether maintaining order in the schools is worth using corporal punishment or not. Let the states and the individual school districts determine what's right for them.

If parental outrage over finding out their kids had been paddled were enough, schools would drop this option real fast. The fact that schools in some states still do this indicates to me that the parents in those states and school districts are OK with their kids being paddled.

reply to post by FortAnthem


But are the kids okay with being paddled? Sod what the parents think or what the states think! The child does not chose the parents and the child does not chose to go to school or not! Why are children not viewed as being a person? Even corporations that do not even exist are given personhood! Why does a child not have the same rights as we do? We would not accept such behavior towards us, so why would we dish it out on them?

Children play up in school because they don't want to be there! Because they are not free! Freedom is something we all want!

I don't think there are any pros to hitting a child, and anyway regardless of any perceived pros it is assault! If a child was hurting another child would we not tell them it is wrong to hit? But then to punish them we hit them? Isn't it rather illogical?

Stefan molyneux has throughly smashed this subject to bits... If you would like I could try to find some of his videos on the subject?

15 years ago we lived in Northern Alabama .. they still paddled in the schools. That's why we started homeschooling. There was no way I was going to send my hispanic-Catholic-northern accented child to a school full of fundamentalist southerners with paddling privileges. The week we left Alabama there was a teacher in the news .. she was upset because the city had taken her school paddle away. Seems that too many kids had gone home with bruises from her beatings. She complained that she wouldn't be able to maintain discipline for the month that they took the paddle away. :shk: I was sooooo glad to leave there ....

Okay so here is the first part, you can find the rest i'm sure. Sorry I've never embedded a youtube video before and not even sure this will work! Ant way please watch it, he's far superior at explaining it than I.

Here you go, I fixed it for you. Watching it now.

Nevermind, you fixed it.

ETA: he does present interesting facts and statistics but his whistling his s's gets REALLY annoying.

I wonder what level of abuse they use to classify something as an "adverse childhood experience" and whether paddling in school would merit being reported. The ACE seems to be a very subjective measurement as some would report every time someone said a harsh word to them while others might only consider things that caused a trip to the hospital as an ACE.

He has a lot of statistics to back up what he is saying but, you know what they say about statistics:

Lies, damned lies, and statistics

Wiki

reply to post by FortAnthem


Yeah I finally figured it out lol. If only I'd read it properly the first time! Thanks any way. And welcome to the world of stefbot! He's awesome! His channel has a wealth of info as does his site. I find his logic and reasoning very hard to beat. Enjoy.

reply to post by mee30


I'm not really confortable with the idea of a school paddling my children.

I would worry about the possibilities for abuse and one of my children has a learning disability and I would hate to think the school might reach for the paddle every time he acted up. Like ProfEmetrius pointed out; kids with autism and learning disabilities are especially prone to abuse and to being traumatized by corporal punishment.

If a school were to do it, it should be done only as a last resort, when all else has failed and parents should be fully informed when their children begin school what the school's disciplinary policy is. Like I said earlier; if enough parents object to corporal punishment of their children, the school district would be forced to change their policy.

I'm not a crazy supporter of corporal punishment in schools but, I hate the idea of the Feds interfering in a subject that should be decided on a state or local level.

damn it
they made us make our own paddles too when we were kids
out of spruce

for canoeing

IMHO using violence teaches violence

reply to post by FortAnthem


Hmmmm Well like I've said could someone beat you if you did something they deemed to be against the rules? In law aren't you supposed to use reasonable force? If a child refused to 'obey' a certain request for instance, what force would be reasonable? Again you have to akin it to an adult life! And the proof is out there1 Abuse leads to all kinds of problems in the world. And as the vid demonstrates it has an accumulative effect. The more a child is abused the more likely they are to have a whole host of problems!

I know you are not for it exactly but when you say that you are worried about how allowing paddling could lead to abuse, you are not accepting that paddling in and of itself is abuse! Or like I say, would you accept it in your own life? Would you accept being paddled?

Here I'll put forward an example... Say you're at work and one of the rules is you can not use the photo-copier for your personal stuff... You break the rule, can the boss paddle you? No? Okay say the boss gives you a warning! But you do it again! Can he they paddle you now? No? Okay this time he gives you a real stern telling off! And perhaps a written warning! But again you ignore this and do it again! Now can the boss paddle you?

When does it become acceptable for the boss to paddle you?

I don't see what it has to do with the fed or the local government or the parent or teachers or anyone! Hitting people is not acceptable! Unless as I say for self defense and even then it has to be reasonable force!

Or are we saying that children are not people?

Originally posted by mee30
reply to post by FortAnthem

 

I know you are not for it exactly but when you say that you are worried about how allowing paddling could lead to abuse, you are not accepting that paddling in and of itself is abuse! Or like I say, would you accept it in your own life? Would you accept being paddled?

Like I said in the OP; I was paddled in school. It only happened once and I got the message and stopped acting up in class.

It was more the embarrasment of the situation that I remember than the pain involved that I remember. In fact, I can hardly remeber any pain at all.

Personally, I think we coddle our kids way too much nowadays. Parents refuse to believe that their little angles could ever act up and God help anyone who dares to discipline them.

In my day, if a kid was seen acting up in the neighborhood, you could count on the nearest parent to give them a swat on the behind and tell their parents what they had been doing. Today, something like that happens and the police will get called out against the parent for keeping order. That, IMO is the reason for the increased lawlessnes and disrespect coming from children these days.

Everybody thinks they have "rights" that allow them to be total A-holes in public with no consequences EVER. If we would just take the time to instill a little discipline when they are young, they would carry that discipline into their adult years and not grow up to be the thugs we see running around the streets today.

Originally posted by mee30
When does it become acceptable for the boss to paddle you?

I don't see what it has to do with the fed or the local government or the parent or teachers or anyone! Hitting people is not acceptable! Unless as I say for self defense and even then it has to be reasonable force!

Or are we saying that children are not people?

Obviously, it would always be wrong for the boss to paddle an employee. An employee has reached the age of reason and you can talk to them and reason with them.

A small child does not yet have the capability to understand complex logic or reasonable arguments. Sometimes you have to emphasize that something is wrong with a smack on the behind to get their attention and drive a point home. It should be used as a last resort and only in extreme cases when all else has failed.

After a child has achieved a certain level of maturity, say middle school, I think paddling would be totally inappropriate as they should have reached the age where they can understand reasoning.

reply to post by FortAnthem


"I think paddling would be totally inappropriate as they should have reached the age where they can understand reasoning"

Wow I find this part the most worrying of all, you advocate hitting really young children? Like what toddlers? A child that can not defend themselves at all? Did you watch all the videos in the series I provided? Between the ages of 0-4 years in when 90% of the brain develops and this is the age group that are the highest risk of being effected.

You say that we coddle kids too much these days, but the facts are actually that still a very high percentage of parents are hitting their children! You think that the problems are occurring because of a lack of discipline when in reality it is the opposite.

After I put up that vid I realized that perhaps it wasn't the best example as an introduction to stefan's work purely because it is heavily laden with graphs and such. Let me try again, more specifically aimed towards spanking.



This is good actually because it deals with state paddling. I know it didn't have a bad effect on you but as you said it only happened once. But for many it is not the case.

Oh and I have a 6 year old a 2 year old and a 4 month old. I've never hit any of them and they listen to me very well. Even the 2 year old can understand reasoning very well.

I would never allow anyone to harm or hit my child, but would sue their bottoms and if it took going up to the criminals running the system, so be it, with a smile on my face. And inform the mcdonald's worker public servant judge that not only is this to permantly grace this country with high human rights standards, but I'm also grading his performance and ready to see him fired and working at a burger king joint if he is a block to real justice.

NEVER ALLOW ANYONE TO TOUCH YOUR CHILD!