Kerry Falsely Accuses Bush on Draft

Originally posted by taibunsuu

Originally posted by Phoenix

In defining the issue however, I do not believe Kerry has to resort to outright lying to his constituency in order to get his point across.

That lying is a defining issue IMO.

And what else lying, hmmm, lemme think... Ok, how about saying that 'Democracy is no the move' in Iraq, when the place is at its most chaotic state since the invasion and the military has numerous no-go areas that can't be touched until after the election?

Or, how about saying the world is safer from terrorism since the invasion of Iraq? If that's true, how safe do you feel as an American going abroad these days? Why are there zero investors in Iraq right now compared to a year ago?

I know you like your candidate, but you have to admit that both sides fudge the facts just a wee bit to make themselves look good.

You should have listened to Allawi's comments at the press conference a while ago. You would have seen how wrong you are on that point. As he stated, there are only three provinces where trouble still brews. The rest of the country is progressing nicely. Of course, right after Kerry called the man a liar, two congressmen who have just returned from Iraq, one Democrat and one Republican, BOTH agreed that the Iraqi Prime Minister spoke the truth. Hmmm....can't claim partisanship there, now can we????

Originally posted by RANT
"There will be no draft when John Kerry is president," Edwards said, a statement that drew a standing ovation.

To summarize and contrast:

Bush: "And, no, we don't need a draft. What we need to do is -- don't worry about it."

Cheney: "I don't foresee a situation in which we'd want to go back to the draft. ...Now, we keep the law on the books. It's always conceivable..."

Edwards: "There will be no draft when John Kerry is president."

And of course, you have Kerry's statements against a draft in the cited article questioning Bush's resolve against having one.

Kerry has every right to alert voters to Bush's lack of conviction on opposing a draft. He plainly states Bush might bring back a draft, because as of yet Bush hasn't ruled it out at all.

Rant.....you are kidding me right? Kerry alerting voters of Bush's lack of conviction?...dude....*shakes head* Kerry is the definition of lack of conviction....

By the way...just like Edwards spoke in behalf of Kerry saying he "might not" (it should be changed to this..) reinstate the draft, it was Donald Rumsfeld who said that no one in the executive branch supports or has talked about reinstating the draft.

"I don't know anyone in the executive branch of the government who believes it would be appropriate or necessary to reinstitute the draft," Mr. Rumsfeld told a Washington gathering of members of the Newspaper Association of America, the American Society of Newspaper Editors and the Associated Press.

Excerpted from.
www.washtimes.com...

Anyways...do you even know what Kerry stands for? He voted in favour of the Patriot act, yet this year he changed his mind, go figure kerry changing his mind? and spoke against it....after he voted for it and gave a speech that this would help in the fight against terror....

This is just like the scare tactics that was used, i wonder by whom.....to make voters think that president Bush was thinking about postponing the elections if we were attacked.... Condoleezza Rice said that no one was talking about doing this and Bush is not even thinking on doing this, that we had elections in time of war and internal conflict and it won't be postponed.

Also, is it possible that Bush meant "don't worry about it" because it is not going to happen??? that's what i think about his statement above.

I would worry more on Kerry's habit on changing his mind on the same issue to fit the views of the crowd he is in... I can't believe people are not seeing through this tactic of Kerry's... Oh btw...if, that is a big if and one i don't think will happen...if Kerry becomes president, yes i can tell you that he will keep his word....since he has voted and spoken for and against every issue there is to talk about.....

Actually, i would be very worried about Kerry becoming president, but he has done a good job at letting those that know what to look for that he is a fool, a liar, and not even a man since he won't stand up for what he believes in.

[edit on 23-9-2004 by Muaddib]

Wow,

Quite a thread.

It is amazing how people on both sides of the political fence are so blinded to the real issues. Bush supporters regurgitate the spin regarding flip/flopping and terrorism verbatem, which is disgusting coming from members of any party. Make the minimal effort to get a little idea of the bigger picture before opening your mouths. I love the one that says that there will be a terrorist attack if Kerry is elected. If there is going to be an attack, it is going to happen irregardless of who is elected, everything I read and hear about these attacks say that they are planned years in advance. Another good spin effort is this whole "Kerry voted not to give the troops on the ground what they need to fight" (and Cheny is going around saying that Kerry refused to approve money to give the troops body armor and ammo) In fact, Kerry voted to approve the money, but in a fiscally responsible manner, not with more deficit. I want to know why Bush/Cheney sent our troops into battle without enough body armor in the first place!

I am a republican, but I am disgusted by how Bush doesn't discuss the issues that we face as a country, but instead every word out of his mouth is about flip/flopping or using the threat of terrorism (a grave and serious threat to our nation) as a form of terrorism (scare the crap out of voters) in order to win the election. Vomit. Vomit. GW needs to pull his head out of the sand, really understand what the hell is going on and take steps to correct it, THAT IS WHAT I AM PAYING HIM FOR!

Given the aggressive policy of the Bush administration in the middle east and the issues that the Army and Marines are having with retention and recruiting (they are the ones taking the losses God bless them!) the Bush administration may have to reinstate the draft. It is becoming apparent that Iran may be the next target. We are decreasing force levels in Korea (gee, there is a brutal dictator in the north) and a standing army of what, something like 1 to 2 million soldiers! We aren't going to be bothering them any time soon. We are reducing force levels in the US to cycle troops out of the war zone. The call up numbers from guard and reserves is at the highest level since WWII for goodnes sake!

Some dems in the house of reps proposing a bill to re-instate the draft doesn't have any bearing on what Kerry said about the draft. What logic are you using to connect these two events?

Hey Muaddib, I bet you couldn't really explain any background detail behind the statements you made about flip/flopping if you had to. How can you say Kerry doesn't have the stones to stand up for what he believes in after what he did after actually serving in a war zone and firing a weapon in battle. I am talking about what he did after the war, you don't have to agree, but you have to agree he has big ones and isn't afraid to take a tough stand and stick to it. BTW, Cheney is on record for saying that "He had better things to do" during the Vietnam war in reference to his lack of military service. But now he/Bush are the protectors of America??? Yea, now that they have an army of secret service agents to protect them that is. . .




[edit on 24-9-2004 by CaptAvatar]

I just read a story on how the National Guard is going to miss it's FY 04 recruiting goals by about 9%.

This is due to the fact that a large percentage of guardsmen are former active-duty military, and they know about 40% of the Guard is currently deployed.

If recruiting goals are not being met, either the pot has to sweeten or the draft will come into play, one or the other.

Simply the fact that the all-volunteer force is not meeting recruiting requirements during a hot war that's lasted more than 18 months is not a good sign.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Typical of Kerry to try to scare voters into making them believe what Bush is going to do if re-elected.

Let's not forget Cheney's little speech about how there will be another terror attack if Kerry is elected. I would call that scaring voters.

Originally posted by RANT
Bush won't go on record opposing a draft, like Kerry/Edwards.

Why is that?

IMHO, Bush won't go on record denouncing the draft because the draft is inevitable. Kerry etal are making promises left and right...promises they won't be able to keep.
RANT, if the draft is so far fetched, why is the Selective Service budget being increased?

And, when the draft does come, not everyone will ahve to join the military. It will be 2 years of national service.

Draft or no draft this post is about Kerrys need to lie about who is the party with draft legislation on the table - a clue, it is not the republican party nor Bush.

Guess that leaves only one alternative to guess for

Originally posted by RANT
Bush won't go on record opposing a draft, like Kerry/Edwards.

Why is that?




Of Course you don't need a draft if you cut and run, like Kerry plans to do. Remember the last time a Bush made a promise? "Read my lips"? Nobody can predict exactly what will happen in the future, so to promise no draft is stupid, but it is coming from democrats, so what do you expect?


Edit for excessive posting...20 yard penalty...remains 1st down! Sorry!

[edit on 25-9-2004 by Carseller4]

[edit on 25-9-2004 by Carseller4]

Originally posted by TenaciousGuy

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Typical of Kerry to try to scare voters into making them believe what Bush is going to do if re-elected.

Let's not forget Cheney's little speech about how there will be another terror attack if Kerry is elected. I would call that scaring voters.

The Truth hurts! Terrorist will be jumping for joy if Kerry is elected. We have not been attacked since 9/11, that is not by chance, it is because you can't plan a major attack when you are on the run.

President George W. Bush....protecting your ass...like it or not!

I apologize for this being slightly off topic but . . .
Hey Carseller4, what evidence or logical argument do you have that shows
that whatever Bush has done since 9/11 has prevented a terrorist attack? Just saying it doesn't make it so. It is my understanding that the 9/11 attacks were planned for years prior to them happening. It was 8 years between the two attacks on the world trade center (1993 and 2001). And by your own logic, the 9/11 attacks happened while GW was in power, so if he is so scary to terrorists, why did they attack on his watch?

Following is on topic

What evidence does anyone have that shows that Kerry lied about anything to do with the draft? As far as scale goes, saying that if Kerry is elected prez there will be a terror attack is a whole lot worse than saying that because GW won't change his strategy and has our military spread extremely thin (true, who doesn't believe this!) he may have to institute a draft.

Originally posted by CaptAvatar


Hey Muaddib, I bet you couldn't really explain any background detail behind the statements you made about flip/flopping if you had to.

I already have many times, do a search on the forums and you will see the evidence. So, to quote you, check your facts before you run your mouth thank you.

That first, second...about the troops leaving Korea, we have been talking about leaving for a long time, but it seems that they are going to be sent to Iraq. i did a piece on this story a month or so ago.

Third, i don't agree with every issue that Bush stands for, but i least i know that he does not change his mind as often as Kerry does.

Originally posted by nativeokie

What deception is that? President Bush has said nothing about the draft...it's Kerry who is bringing it up as a scare tactic. How can you call something a deception by Bush when he hasn't said anything on the subject?

I and in the military now, and I can tell you for a fact that the Air Force is actually CUTTING it's numbers. The Army is increasing, but they have met ALL enlistment goals for the year. There will be no draft. Period.

*edit for spelling

I just got out of the navy because they too, are cutting their numbers. However there are many solicitations for ex navy to join national guard, army, and army reserve by our Command Career Councilors. (they even had reps at the mandatory seperation class TAPS).

[edit on 2004-9-25 by NuTroll]

Originally posted by Carseller4

Originally posted by TenaciousGuy

Originally posted by Intelearthling
Typical of Kerry to try to scare voters into making them believe what Bush is going to do if re-elected.

Let's not forget Cheney's little speech about how there will be another terror attack if Kerry is elected. I would call that scaring voters.

The Truth hurts! Terrorist will be jumping for joy if Kerry is elected. We have not been attacked since 9/11, that is not by chance, it is because you can't plan a major attack when you are on the run.

President George W. Bush....protecting your ass...like it or not!

\



Gee, I dunno, but if I was a terrorist, I think I would want Bush re-elected, what with him preoccupied with Iraq and all, it just seems the War on Terror is not as important anymore, now the focus is in Iraq. I hear bin Laden has a Bush Cheney sign outside of his cave...

FYI

Check out this link regarding the GOP's ideas regarding the draft. At least this has real references to real information regarding the Bush's plans for a draft.

www.blatanttruth.org...

Here is the Selective Service plan for being ready to implement a draft within 3 months of getting the go ahead.

www.sss.gov...

[edit on 26-9-2004 by CaptAvatar]

"Kerry voted not to give the troops on the ground what they need to fight" (and Cheny is going around saying that Kerry refused to approve money to give the troops body armor and ammo) In fact, Kerry voted to approve the money, but in a fiscally responsible manner, not with more deficit.

Kerry voted no on S. 1689 (Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Iraq and Afghanistan Security and Reconstruction Act, 2004 )
www.senate.gov...

The only responses for a senate vote are "Yea" or "Nay," there is no option for "Yea, but in a fiscally responsible manner."

Originally posted by CaptAvatar
FYI

Check out this link regarding the GOP's ideas regarding the draft. At least this has real references to real information regarding the Bush's plans for a draft.

www.blatanttruth.org...

Here is the Selective Service plan for being ready to implement a draft within 3 months of getting the go ahead.

www.sss.gov...

[edit on 26-9-2004 by CaptAvatar]

You know, I didn�t' comment on your first post in this thread. I let it go as a bumbling rant. Then you posted this.

Let me explain something to you. The Selective Service has to have an implementation plan. Without it, there would be no reason to have the ability to draft people. You'd say, "Call them up! Start the draft!", and there would be no plan to do so.

Now, as for the other site you posted, the link doesn't work, the site won't come up, even when googled. But, when you DO google it, the description of the site is, "The Blatant Truth exposing the Bush Doctrine of greed, repression and fraud." Yeah, we can expect some totally unbiased, truthful information from a site that gives itself THAT moniker, right?

Since you are relatively new, I'll give you a little friendly advice that you can take or leave, your choice. Post links to sites that are REAL news sites, not sites that bash one side or the other. Things like "whatreallyhappened.com" and this, "blatanttruth.org" site just eat away at your credibility.

Make it easier on yourself. Do your homework before you post.