NASA Scientist Jailed for 13 years for offering to sell state (Moon) secrets to Israel.

Originally posted by spav5
You are simply speculating like the rest of us.

Well no... actually not like the rest of us

reply to post by Arken


Clearance on a NASA program that is public domain or NASA isn't for us any more.
A public company worked on the lander that had everything open to the public.
Well as far as anyone concerned with engineering details.
So now going to the Moon is some hush hush secret.
Someone decided to make it a secret to make other agents look good.
Naturally the secrets can't be disclosed to us so this guy is cooked.

The ancients can battle over when the Moon came along but when, according
to Velikovsky, Saturn caused the Flood of Noe in a Cosmic rain storm the Moon
must have gotten a taste of water. So what. Is Velikovsky a secret.

ED: his specialties to wit:
satellites, early warning systems, methods for retaliating against large-scale attack, communications intelligence information and major elements of defense strategy.
This reminds me of an aircraft designer the went to US congress to have his designs made and
congress refused so he sold them to Russia. One copy each ended up coming to US in a
defection unknown to an air defense monitor Lyne at that time. Talk about out of the loop.
So deals can be made. Sounds like the wrong channels were tweaked.

Originally posted by spav5
So if it takes bigger boosters..they simply make bigger boosters.

If you are stating it as fact...I disagree.

Ok, ok, you got me. The real secret is...they have a Burger King on the moon.

The reason that it's a BK is that the military has a contract with BK - there's you a conspiracy! Every base of any size - there's a BK. All service members are coerced into having DINNER WITH THE KING! Perhaps due to the fact that the British secretly own the US???!! And let me tell you, I don't like Whoppers all that much anyway, given a choice between the Army food and BK, I was always debating which was worse. But I digress.

So, due to the contract, the military was required to put a BK on the moon.

Now, it doesn't make sense, because it's backbreakingly expensive, no-one's there to eat them except the employees, and you have to continually resupply the thing. Cola syrup just doesn't keep well in low gravity and pressure, donchaknow. But you can't PROVE there isn't one, and they COULD do it, so it has to be there!

You see, that's the end point of your logic. You can't prove a negative, and it *could* be done, so it has to have happened! Can't be refuted!

But from the more rational side, you generally try to prove a positive. Prove they ARE there. Hell, even give some reason why it would be desirable. If you could establish motive, means, method, and circumstantial evidence it might at least make it more interesting as a conjecture. Other than nuclear shaped charges for tunneling, if you were making a secret underground lunar base, there isn't one. Why would you spend huge amounts of money to emplace nukes a quarter million miles away, then have to constantly maintain them? It doesn't provide you with a tactical advantage, having them in LEO would, although that's bad enough logistically, but not on the lunar surface.

I mean, you don't even have them in circumlunar orbit, you're postulating they're on the lunar surface. You went down into another gravity well with your putative nuclear launch site - making taking off and landing to GET to them for maintenance or launching them even more painful, bulky, and expensive. Then when they get here, they'd have to have complex reentry systems - there's another thing you didn't consider. When you do a lunar return, the entry corridor is very very small and the reentry speed is fantastically high. There's a limited number of low energy return orbits, and the transit time is in days. There's very little room for miscalculation and you have to provide a really involved ablation system. You don't have to worry much about ANY of that for LEO reentry, which is why ballistic missiles aren't covered in a foot of ceramic.

Originally posted by zorgon

What I want to know is how does a guy like this...

get to work for Reagan's Star Wars program, develop the concept for the NAVY Clementine satellite, work for NASA, con DARPA and the NAVY NRL and only get 13 years minus time served

You know, I can't tell if he looks more like a fat Soupy Sales or the Jon Lovitz "Tommy Flannigan" pathological liar character.

I have to wonder what it was he sold them, or tried to. It would have to be SCI to get that law used against you, but only 13 years worth in the pen. I mean, if you're going to flaunt something SCI, you ought to go fullbore, get your money's worth.

OTOH, it's not past us to sell Israel technology that actually IS SCI. I've seen stuff we did years back go up for sale from an Israeli company as their own work five years later. They didn't even bother changing the mold sprues, although they did remove some of the features.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Ok, ok, you got me. The real secret is...they have a Burger King on the moon.
The reason that it's a BK is that the military has a contract with BK - there's you a conspiracy! Every base of any size - there's a BK.

that makes sense Did you know that LEGO made a Mars robot toy for the kids on Mars colony? Only its more of a tool than a toy. The Russians tested it out on ISS

what's that you say? "Pics or it didn't happen?" Oh okay no problem


"Therefore a public competition was announced to create attention offering interested people to participate in developing a robot that will be in the condition to support the ISS crew during their daily routine work." - Smithsonian report

On that Israeli and secret thing... according to my sources they don't always get the goods

From email....

I just wanted you to know that yes...I keep very busy and I'm on a 'mission'! My Mission is to keep America safe through development of some very exotic technologies. And yes, as you mentioned, I've worked on/with HAARP. If you want to learn more about that see US Patent #xxxxxx.If you read the patent you'll understand the relevance to HAARP and the Stealth Bombers, etc. You're an intelligent man and I'm certain that you'll be able to make the connection. If you read US Patent xxxxx, you'll understand (a little better) my connection to/with and collaboration with these men. LOL...suffice it to say that the 'Predator' (as in the movie) is alive/living at Los Alamos!

Follow up...

Hi, Ron...Good Morning! Thanks for the note and you certainly touch on points of similarity and interest (proving that great minds think alike!). I am free to talk about any of my published US Patents which are in the public domain. I am, however, under an edict from DoD under the NSA to 'report any inquiries relative to the stealth patent'. I had a phone call from a person who identified himself as an 'Under Sectetary of Defense' and the person read a statement to me which I later found was excerpted from the National Security Act, as amended. I was 'ordered' to report any inquiries of any kind, by anyone, to DoD relative to that case (patent). I've only had to do that one time in 20 years when a group of Israeli's, based in Philly, contacted me relative to undertaking collaboration on some 'project' in Haifa. I reported this as instructed and the group 'disappeared' shortly thereafter.

So not everyone is like that schmarmy used spaceship salesman in that picture

reply to post by zorgon


Damn Knight!!!

reply to post by Arken


Shame because....the photo that ATS member zorgon posted was, well....a well-known example of a NASA-type flight.

IN fact.....ANYONE who can pay for it, can experience the same sort of.....well, "experience".

IN FACT...many roller coasters offer the same "effect"....the feeling of "falling".....

Well this guy does not appear on the list of prisoners in Guantanamo. When we jail spies, maybe there is no oversight and they just walk away and live on a nice tropical island. I mean, who is in charge of stashing spies? Personally as a tax payer, I would like to know we have spies locked up.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by spav5
So if it takes bigger boosters..they simply make bigger boosters.

If you are stating it as fact...I disagree.

Ok, ok, you got me. The real secret is...they have a Burger King on the moon.

The reason that it's a BK is that the military has a contract with BK - there's you a conspiracy! Every base of any size - there's a BK. All service members are coerced into having DINNER WITH THE KING! Perhaps due to the fact that the British secretly own the US???!! And let me tell you, I don't like Whoppers all that much anyway, given a choice between the Army food and BK, I was always debating which was worse. But I digress.

So, due to the contract, the military was required to put a BK on the moon.

Now, it doesn't make sense, because it's backbreakingly expensive, no-one's there to eat them except the employees, and you have to continually resupply the thing. Cola syrup just doesn't keep well in low gravity and pressure, donchaknow. But you can't PROVE there isn't one, and they COULD do it, so it has to be there!

You see, that's the end point of your logic. You can't prove a negative, and it *could* be done, so it has to have happened! Can't be refuted!

But from the more rational side, you generally try to prove a positive. Prove they ARE there. Hell, even give some reason why it would be desirable. If you could establish motive, means, method, and circumstantial evidence it might at least make it more interesting as a conjecture. Other than nuclear shaped charges for tunneling, if you were making a secret underground lunar base, there isn't one. Why would you spend huge amounts of money to emplace nukes a quarter million miles away, then have to constantly maintain them? It doesn't provide you with a tactical advantage, having them in LEO would, although that's bad enough logistically, but not on the lunar surface.

I mean, you don't even have them in circumlunar orbit, you're postulating they're on the lunar surface. You went down into another gravity well with your putative nuclear launch site - making taking off and landing to GET to them for maintenance or launching them even more painful, bulky, and expensive. Then when they get here, they'd have to have complex reentry systems - there's another thing you didn't consider. When you do a lunar return, the entry corridor is very very small and the reentry speed is fantastically high. There's a limited number of low energy return orbits, and the transit time is in days. There's very little room for miscalculation and you have to provide a really involved ablation system. You don't have to worry much about ANY of that for LEO reentry, which is why ballistic missiles aren't covered in a foot of ceramic.

You are not impressing me with what you think is knowledge. How do you know that they don't have nukes that do not need maintaining? Don't give me more gobbledegook that you read on some site.

YOU ONLY "KNOW" WHAT YOU ARE TOLD...IF YOU ARE NOT TOLD THEN YOU DO NOT KNOW.

My guess is that you have not been told about the latest nukes..or any top secret government operation regarding this planet or any "heavenly" body.

Miscalculations this and that..lol. You have flown a rocket to the moon..or even into space?

You KNOW diddly squat..and that is only because you learned it from Diddly Squat.

Peace

Originally posted by Vandettas

Originally posted by fedeykin

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
I observe the moon through a high quality telescope all of the time, there are no bases or military on it as far as i have seen. Good luck building something on the far side in the dark though.

Ever heard of camouflage?

So when someone says "there is nothing on the moon & nothing being hidden on the moon"
you say : Disinfo agent.

But then when someone says "the moon can be viewed all the time by anyone through high quality telescope"
you say : Camouflage on the moon.

You really said "Camouflage"?!?

I have no strong feelings one way or the other on the subject but please...

I'd believe the so called disinfo agents before I'd believe in something like that.
At least they provide "fake" evidence and opinions rather the stories of
invisibility and 7/11's on the moon.

I personally don't beleive there is anything out of the ordinary on the moon. However, the argument that you look at it with a telescope and haven't seen anything is not valid.

It is incredibly easy to hide things from view. Any military or government is completely capable of concealing anything here on Earth, they can hide everything including tanks, bunkers and buildings from incredibly powerful telescopes on satellites that far outclass any telescope you will own; so what tells you that any military or government presence on the moon is not hidden?

If the US government doesn't want YOU to know about it, then it will not want China and Russia to know about it either. Hence: It will be hidden from sight.

This is just basic logic. Would that people could use logic more often.

Originally posted by spav5

My guess is that you have not been told about the latest nukes..or any top secret government operation regarding this planet or any "heavenly" body.

Miscalculations this and that..lol. You have flown a rocket to the moon..or even into space?

You KNOW diddly squat..and that is only because you learned it from Diddly Squat.

Peace

I wonder what it takes to be a lunar BK fry cook, Spav? Have you asked yet? DO THEY HAVE WHOPPER SPECIALS!!?

I mean, how do you know they don't? Have you been there?

There could be BK's on every heavenly body! You can't prove there aren't!! Every. Heavenly. Body. Put there by the government.

whats cool is flipping burgers on the moon or mars ...
( and pan cakes, n pizzas too, for that matter)
it takes a while for them to come back down

they become sloooooow foooooddd

though feeze drying (just stick it out the hatch on the shade side
and fast fry (ditto but on the sun side )
and microwaving are somewhat easier then they are on earth....

Originally posted by Bedlam
There could be BK's on every heavenly body! You can't prove there aren't!! Every. Heavenly. Body. Put there by the government.

Well I am glad it's BK and not that McD's stuff

What about Pizza Hut? I hear they hold the record for the farthest delivered Pizza into space... odd thing though, apparently peperoni doesn't hold up in space so they had to substitute salami... weird huh? But I did find that putting peperoni in the freezer doesn't work

This whole spy thing doesn't smell right though, I mean after all Gary McKinnon was going to get 76 years for a simple peek into unprotected computers that shouldn't have had anything sensitive anyway... (and he still hasn't been processed 10 years later)

So do they really have a 'Spy Retirement Home' like on that British series 'he Prisoner'?

Originally posted by ProudBird
Shame because....the photo was, well....a well-known example of a NASA-type flight.

That WASN'T NASA... they are not allowed to get funding from private ventures... that is why Pizza Hut also went to Russia to make their outer space deliveries




Station captain Yuri Usachev proudly displays the first chain pizza out of the gravity well. (HO/WirePix)

Originally posted by zorgon

This whole spy thing doesn't smell right though, I mean after all Gary McKinnon was going to get 76 years for a simple peek into unprotected computers that shouldn't have had anything sensitive anyway... (and he still hasn't been processed 10 years later)

So do they really have a 'Spy Retirement Home' like on that British series 'he Prisoner'?

Wow, you must be psycho, I mean psychic. See the latest pm I sent. It's a fictional outline for the first act of that movie script.

Welcome to your new retirement villa, Doctor. 100 acres of gently rolling red dirt, with lichens. We'll fly in some grass seed later. Hope you like that 'rammed earth' adobe look.

Originally posted by zorgon
Well I am glad it's BK and not that McD's stuff

I dunno - I've had a lifetime worth of BK in the eighties. I can't think about eating another Whopper without my stomach doing slow rolls.

OTOH, there were times it was AMAZING. After eating bugs school lets out, there's generally a stampede for the BK, and you'll see a dozen stinky disheveled non-spec guys wolfing down whopper after whopper. It's considered good form to buy for them. It goes along with the tradition of bags of snickers bars, quarter pounders and apples accidentally left on the helicopter by the flight crew for other schools. There is a deep thread of celebratory junk food that runs through the Army.

Originally posted by Bedlam
Wow, you must be psycho,

Others will likely agree

Welcome to your new retirement villa, Doctor. 100 acres of gently rolling red dirt, with lichens. We'll fly in some grass seed later. Hope you like that 'rammed earth' adobe look.

That would explain that long list of missing scientists (and others) I have. Doesn't sound like I will be putting that on my 'must visit' list anytime soon

Pizza Hut might find out some NASA secrets and get jail time.
Go figure.
Go commercial they are not that advanced.
The von Braun network can't let go perhaps.
I don't know if there is a VB network but lets try for one.
Nothing venture nothing gained.
Unlocked computers must have been a mistake unless the code was deemed
secure from prying eyes from those on the track of UFOs that must be somewhere on Earth.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by spav5

My guess is that you have not been told about the latest nukes..or any top secret government operation regarding this planet or any "heavenly" body.

Miscalculations this and that..lol. You have flown a rocket to the moon..or even into space?

You KNOW diddly squat..and that is only because you learned it from Diddly Squat.

Peace

I wonder what it takes to be a lunar BK fry cook, Spav? Have you asked yet? DO THEY HAVE WHOPPER SPECIALS!!?

I mean, how do you know they don't? Have you been there?

There could be BK's on every heavenly body! You can't prove there aren't!! Every. Heavenly. Body. Put there by the government.

Exactly Bedla..now you are catching on.

Peace

Edit:
McDonalds might be more likely though. I know that you think that you are being cute and showing how intelligent you are...although you are not being cute...you are showing your intelligence.

Peace again

Originally posted by spav5
I know that you think that you are being cute and showing how intelligent you are...although you are not being cute...you are showing your intelligence.

I never metaphor I didn't like.

Just embracing your argument style. You want proof of a negative - the old "you can't prove they didn't!" and you're right. You also can't prove there's not BKs on every heavenly body.

When you understand why nukes on the moon sounds as ridiculous as BKs, you will have learned.