Drawing Mohammed: Idolatry or Blasphemy? + FAITH Expression possible w/o Free Speach (DMD = May 20th

Mods, if ya kill the thread I won't cry or be ... just disappointed since the good-modin' SHOULD help entertain our "sensitive subjects" to find common understandings (yea I'm idealistic too) . Others, reminder - self-limit rants, and especially insults to other members per the mod's warning...

my intent is to DRAW common ground (pun on "draw"). This video seems to express my POV fairly well on the Idolatry, reverse-idolatry, and antagonistic aspects:


Antagonizing an angry person is not a "christian" thing to do. On the other hand, with GENTILES and ATHEISTS among us that we hope to "save" (via Koran, Bible, or ____), a freedom of religion as guaranteed in the US constitution is NECESSARY to express "FAITH" separate from compliance with government pressure and on our trajectory LAW. Can't draw something? Well then the constitution itself seems burned.

Thus, yea there's an "antagonism" in the POTUS (Pres of US) and others saying "STFU" (shut the frack up) or "don't draw that" or die, from an American citizen POV (point of view) - and written into the constitution of the USA (ignoring the recent NDAA defilement).

And yea, in my POV Obama's "antagonized" the "libertarians" and "constitutionalists" by directly passing foreign terrorists threats to a FL guy who only planned on burning his own books with videos nobody would have bothered watching if the POTUS hadn't made it a spectacle (hmmm ulterior motives???). THAT POTUS action was what motivated me to sing this song (improve w/o any planning) where it expresed the emotional response to a POTUS in such constitution-burning action, "BURN!":



BTW, I got an angry reply to a youtube comment regarding my expression of the "reverse idolatry" concept on someone eles's video (I may post it here soon), but then the same guy apologized and seemed to comprehend my point. That wasn't to antagonize anyone, and I agreed he could draw pictures of me/mine (word pictures in that case) in order to communicate - I understood he had a feeling and we all felt better.

So I'm hoping to share the Godly WISDOM in a SECULAR constitution that guarantees FREEDOM OF RELIGION via FREEDOM OF SPEECH. They're 1.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH is NECESSARY to be able to express FAITH separate from SLAVERY-GOVERNANCE. Otherwise, one's words simply repeat what their LAWs demand. IMHO, peer-pressure is over the top already, and such legalistic stuff will get many of us killed, just like JESUS! (and yea that means I'm willing to take my chances w/ my "Jesus Balls").

Man, after Raptor Jesus I will accept anything lol

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
Man, after Raptor Jesus I will accept anything lol

That's a new one for me, LM#AO! I had to look it up, and the first result on "Raptor Jesus" had enough slang that IDK if it would bet me a dump here.

This one's still funny on that...

(and yea' I'm a "Christian" w/ a few other "characters" in my heart (Johnathan E, Howard Roark, Superman, Tarzan, .. ))

This video shows up on the recommended - side-list from my song "Burn". I like it! Enough to post it here along with the lyrics they shared (looks original too!!!)... and yea, imho its another youtube song from the heart (Hollywood's califorinication isn't the USA).


[bold emphasis added]

Uploaded by monotov4 on Sep 11, 2010
lie to me but to
thyself be true
you may hate me but not my God
we are all victims
of one big lie
doesn't mean we all should die
crime deserves retribution
not the burn of constitution
not the book
that once shook
our souls
from the land of the free i rise to the sky
and tell the sun they'll burn the quran
from the land of the free i rise to the sky
and tell the moon they'll burn it soon
ask the universe
averse about the book
that has all secrets within
ask the land and sky's
the birds and fly's
tell them it will be burnt
see how much they'll be hurt
see how much they will cry
dry their tears
along the years
as if the sea will ever dry
from the land of the free i rise to the sky
and tell the sun they'll burn the quran
from the land of the free i rise to the sky
and tell the moon they'll burn it soon

BTW, we burn everything, every book but the worry in that isn't as symbolic and destructive as it used to be.. no, now, its the memory pool problem. Books are getting digitized and classified (and yea "classified" as in secret).

Meet another hero in my heart. A guy who transformed the fictional story into my heart. He also demonstrates how Jesus and Mohammad do that - in a short movie rather than books. Me personally had a hard time getting to that with Mohammad due to the rules rules rules early on in the story. But if one were raised with it, I get it, like this:


+
Johnathan, Johnathan, Johnathan...! (characters transform into our hearts!)

Key sound-bite was "no publicity is bad publicity"... And it was amazing how well the Imam acted as a sane cool head in contrast with the news anchor.



I especially like how he described the reading aspect. I still think there's a bit more in terms of not worshiping the exact phrases, the paper, the binding, the THING over and above its wisdom. There's also a historic context of burning vs availability too. Unlike today when if you want to burn a book you gotta BUY it first which means paying for more of them to get printed.

BURN BIBLES! That reduces their cost, increases publicity! Flags too! Oh, well, cause I can I don't much feel like it. I'd rather spend my time and money on more productive things.

Advice God meme is my favorite

This was the guy and the POLITICIANS who ELEVATED his antagonistic attitudes to the world stage.

Lol, NFW would TJ have gotten "world attention" without the USA's FED / World Bank manipulators (Hillary and Obama) bring it to everyone's attention.

The stage-holders are the ones who blew that. Rather than bring the wisdom of the USA's constitution to the Muslim people about the criticality of free speech for integrity in expression of faith, they resonated with someone's fear. Obama and Hillary FAILED!

There aught a be a fail-blog thread fulls pics on them for that., well then again a truth search via Google pretty easily provides that in PICTORIAL form: Hillary Obama Evil [EDIT/URL-LENGTH-FAIL... you can get there if you click images after getting to google]

SO ITS about time the WORLD get it... Hillary and OBAMA were the real antagonists? Or was Obama a secret agent man? Is he really "Caliph Obama"? (I'm suggesting love over the Beck-fear-megaphone)


Want war or peace? Fear the Muslims? Or fear God and Government?

As an inventor, Arthur Schopenhauer's stages of truth acceptance are very real to me. I'm hoping we're passing the Violent Opposition stage into acceptance as self evident. That may take longer in isolated remote areas like US govt controlled OPIUM fields for the 1/4 of the USA that's ON OPIUM... But JESUS inspires truth above its content... growing a pair...

Acceptance of TRUTH:
1. Ridiculed
2. Violently Opposed
3. Accepted as Self-evident

Personally, I feel that Qu'rans should be burned continually, until Muslims are willing to cease engaging in violence towards anyone who does it.

What is important is not the burning of the Qu'ran itself; but the ability to do it. When a Muslim tells me that he will kill me if I burn a Qu'ran, what he is implicitly telling me, is that as a non-Muslim, I am subject to the law of his religion.

I will NOT be Muslim. There is no religion on this planet, that I feel more intense aversion towards the idea of converting to. I am not subject to Sharia law, and will not be.

This is solid, tangible proof of the Islamic belief that they have the divine right to conquer the entire planet. If it is true, as moderate Muslims have said to me on this forum, that they do not wish to subjugate the planet, then they can prove that by allowing me to burn a Qu'ran without any form of retaliation. There are more than enough copies of it on the planet, that it would survive such.

The God I believe in, is one which would happily see every copy be universally burned, of any book on the planet, that was associated with the excessive enslavement and death of human beings; and if that is not the attitude of your Allah, Muslims, then he is not worth your worship.

Originally posted by reitze
Key sound-bite was "no publicity is bad publicity"... And it was amazing how well the Imam acted as a sane cool head in contrast with the news anchor.

And also, with this... "America must pick its' poison as First Amendment puts lives at risk."

This is analogous to the same spurious argument which was used by characters in the film The Dark Knight, when the Joker made the commitment to begin murdering people on a daily basis until Batman turned himself in. Batman was blamed for the murders by the citizenry, when it was in fact the Joker who was committing them.

A non-Muslim who burns Qu'rans, is responsible for burning Qu'rans, and that only. A Muslim who murders people in retaliation for said Qu'rans being burned, is responsible for murdering people. To argue otherwise is dishonest, and to seek to assign the blame for an act, to the party who we are less afraid of; the non-Muslim who is burning the Qu'ran, rather than the Muslim who is committing murders.

reply to post by petrus4


where are you from? EU?

Originally posted by petrus4
Personally, I feel that Qu'rans should be burned continually, until Muslims are willing to cease engaging in violence towards anyone who does it.

What is important is not the burning of the Qu'ran itself; but the ability to do it. When a Muslim tells me that he will kill me if I burn a Qu'ran, what he is implicitly telling me, is that as a non-Muslim, I am subject to the law of his religion.

I will NOT be Muslim. There is no religion on this planet, that I feel more intense aversion towards the idea of converting to. I am not subject to Sharia law, and will not be.

This is solid, tangible proof of the Islamic belief that they have the divine right to conquer the entire planet. If it is true, as moderate Muslims have said to me on this forum, that they do not wish to subjugate the planet, then they can prove that by allowing me to burn a Qu'ran without any form of retaliation. There are more than enough copies of it on the planet, that it would survive such.

The God I believe in, is one which would happily see every copy be universally burned, of any book on the planet, that was associated with the excessive enslavement and death of human beings; and if that is not the attitude of your Allah, Muslims, then he is not worth your worship.

edit on 22-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

I read the koran. It's plot/climax is similar to the Bible, The book of morman, mary baker eddies', and so-on... a good plot to move a character into your heart like Johnathan E (who's most relevant NOW). I did find the rules-stack to be offensive to Christian - as in earning one's way to heavan... but very similar to Romndy/mormons... that happens... But ...

Pertinent to your point, the NUANCE is NOW as compared to 1000 years ago when EVERY copy had to be copied by hand and burning them eliminated them. NOW burning one enforces a PURCHASE/REPRODUCTION. SO it INVERTS the concept of scarsity as well as symbolic elimination that used to be a serious problem (and OMFG the monument destruction in the middle east IS assinine elimination of truth --- on THAT level still). Back then, whenever someone put that much effort into a reproduction they had a feeling about it on the order of... Howard Roark. Meet another hero in my heart who's transformed a story into my heart (and who knows - was he fiction???)

So what went wrong?

Well IMHO OBAMA's the one who BURNed the constitution. If he had stayed true to his oath, to uphold the constitution from enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC... we'd be ok, but instead we're seeing what Ayn Rand predicted as our end...



BTW, I was very pleased to discuss REP politics from a much more 'right-leaning' christian than me today. He called 1 guy "santorium" and another "ramney", but we ended up agreeing that "ramney" would be better than the current mess. We also agreed that Ron Paul was most "TRUE" with "GOD". But on the lesser of evils, and masses and so-on... ramney's better than Obummer... even if its just another binary pendulum swing with an abnormal time in the middle.... who flipped over that pendulum anyway?

I photoed this image from the book:
The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall


The last sentence in he text for the illustration pretty much summarize all!

MOHAMMED CLEANSING THE CAABA OF IDOLATRY
In ridding Mecca of its idolatry, Mohammed accomplished the chief ambition of his life. The homeless and persecuted refugee, once forced to cover the plot of ground where he prayed that he might not be stoned to death while performing his devotions, returned to the city of his birth as its conqueror. Tradition describes the Prophet, "whose name be praised," as above middle height, with fair skin, and of handsome and commanding appearance. His head was unusually large, his neck exquisitely molden and his curly auburn hair fell in waves over his ears. He had piercing black eyes of great size; his eyebrows were arched; his nose was high an slightly aquiline; and his heavy beard reached far down upon his breast. No authentic likeness of the Prophet is known to exist, since the very teachings of Islam are opposed to the perpetuation and consequent deification of personalities. Mohammed's impersonality complex was undoubtedly due to the imbroglio existing in his time among the various Christian sects which were engaged in determining the actual relationship of Jesus, the Son of Man, to God. Considering these theological dissensions as indicative that the Christianity of Jesus had already lapsed into idolatry, the Arabian Prophet is reputed to have said "Jesus of Nazareth was verily a true prophet of Allah and a grand man, but lo! his disciples all went insane one day, and made a god of him." Even in the delirium of his last illness Mohammed was so impressed by the Christian practice of erecting shrines over the bones of its saints and martyrs that he cried out. "O Allah, let not my tomb be ever an object of worship."

MOHAMMED CLEANSING THE CAABA OF IDOLATRY
In ridding Mecca of its idolatry, Mohammed accomplished the chief ambition of his life. The homeless and persecuted refugee, once forced to cover the plot of ground where he prayed that he might not be stoned to death while performing his devotions, returned to the city of his birth as its conqueror. Tradition describes the Prophet, "whose name be praised," as above middle height, with fair skin, and of handsome and commanding appearance. His head was unusually large, his neck exquisitely molden and his curly auburn hair fell in waves over his ears. He had piercing black eyes of great size; his eyebrows were arched; his nose was high an slightly aquiline; and his heavy beard reached far down upon his breast. No authentic likeness of the Prophet is known to exist, since the very teachings of Islam are opposed to the perpetuation and consequent deification of personalities. Mohammed's impersonality complex was undoubtedly due to the imbroglio existing in his time among the various Christian sects which were engaged in determining the actual relationship of Jesus, the Son of Man, to God. Considering these theological dissensions as indicative that the Christianity of Jesus had already lapsed into idolatry, the Arabian Prophet is reputed to have said "Jesus of Nazareth was verily a true prophet of Allah and a grand man, but lo! his disciples all went insane one day, and made a god of him." Even in the delirium of his last illness Mohammed was so impressed by the Christian practice of erecting shrines over the bones of its saints and martyrs that he cried out. "O Allah, let not my tomb be ever an object of worship."

I think this one passage, has done more to increase my respect for the Prophet, than anything else I have ever read about him. If it is true, then he is indeed greatly defiled by the majority of his contemporary followers.

If this is the character of the man you claim, Muslims, then most of you are not worthy of him.

reply to post by petrus4


the muslims you refer to are the wahabbi types. Freemasonry created wahabbism and muslim brotherhood was part of mi6.

Originally posted by ludwigvonmises003
reply to post by petrus4

 

the muslims you refer to are the wahabbi types. Freemasonry created wahabbism and muslim brotherhood was part of mi6.

Why does that idea not surprise me?

One problem is that people confuse the freedom to practice any religion they want with the freedom to preach it to anyone they want. There's a difference there that many people don't see.

I had some Jehova witnesses come to my door every Saturday when I first moved to where I am now 5 years ago, and at first I was polite. Basically telling them thanks but no thanks. But they kept coming. At one point they asked me why I don't go to church.........so I told them.

I said that religion and church demeans God by putting him indoors where he doesn't belong. I said I believe in God but not organized religion, that it just waters down the real feeling you can get by being close to what he represents: Peace and love. I then said that I especially don't like it when people who represent a certain religion try to force their views on me. If I was interested in what you have to say, you would've known it by now.

I haven't seen them since.

Originally posted by nakiel
I photoed this image from the book:
The Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P. Hall

Readers who are unfamiliar with Hall's work will be at a loss in ferreting out which chapters have stood the test of time and which have been vigorously debunked (like the one on Islam, which actually uses novelist Washington Irving as a primary source on the prophet Muhammad).

Unfortunately, I also just found this in the description of the book, on the Amazon page you linked to.

The problem with this negotiation is that the divide is much deeper than just a discussion on blasphemy or idolatry and cultural movement to rationality.

The concept of rationality is culturally defined and proscribed with laws of a religious nature intended not a guide for individual actions, but as cultural dictates. Rationality is defined as the acceptance of the perfect of Allah's laws. Religious freedom as acceptance of Shariah. Reason is to live in the grateful acceptance of submission to Allah.

Lending offense is put upon the offender to control. Not on you controlling your reaction to being offended.

Movement to rationality has been anticipated and religious/cultural woo has been applied in advance by redefining all the parameters and words.


Your JW's were much easier to get rid of than ours. I generally take the view that people believe deeply that they are trying to do me an immense favour, and am very patient. Eventually we had to get a group of friends together, have a neighbour phone us a warning they were coming. Everyone dressed up in black robes, chanted in a dirge like way, with lights off and candles lit. One of our cats would meow like it was being killed when it was picked up.....We never saw them again. What a relief.