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Trade Professional (RE: Ancient Monuments): "I can not build even one wall. Here's a theory."

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posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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I agree whole heartedly to almost everything in your post. From my perspective the only way the ancient alien thing works is if they wait untill the point in history where we as a global civilization have reached critical mass and are about to destroy the earth and each other on a global scale and either harvest us or destroy us leaving only enuff adam's and eve's to rebuild the population. Seems if you wanted slaves at the best profit margin considering the many light years of travel involved you want to nab as many as possible and you only want to make one trip. It would probably be timed just right that the time it took to leave earth and get back for the next batch would be about how long it takes for us to breed to say, oh, just a guess, about ten billion people. Or about ten more years. Giving the warring tendencies and violent nature of man I would guess they need us for military type troops. I also could see that attributed to the alpha male instincts that all animals show in nature except that most animals fight for territory, mates and food, but only to the point they have enuff of each to satisfy their needs. Man doesnt seem capable of having enuff of any of these things. I think we are the only animal with a concept of having "everything", not just what we need. That is what will ultimately destroy us. I dont know what to believe because like you i feel we have lost more knowledge than we posses. Am learning about myself and humanity every day and this thread is great food for thought. Also would like to add that I dont believe that an alien would give us any knowledge as that would potentially cause us to develop technology to fast for their "schedule" and knowing if you leave the ant farm unattended too long you could lose them all.
edit on 22-3-2012 by regor77 because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-3-2012 by regor77 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Someone give this man some money!


You have managed to compile a ton of loose data in one big clockwork of awesome! I absolutely love it!

I just got to the part about ancient maps and I cannot grasp how interesting this is!

It is this type of reasoning and logic that is withheld and pushed aside in order to promote the same type of archaic beliefs by historical scholars. Modern-day professors reciprocate the same inaccurate nonsense that promotes an unhealthy cycle of false knowledge. They all need a link to this thread.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


I do not believe all of our ancient information is gone, I bet there is something hidden within the vaults of the Vatican for example that would give us a better glimpse into our past history. I believe that is why it is hidden underground, in airtight chambers and most importantly "no one is allowed to tour or view the Vatican vault"...

Why not allow access to look...?

Oh IN NO WAY IS THIS A negative response regarding religion or the Catholic Church...I am Muslim and Catholic...

Further how is access to the Great pyramids these days after the fall of the Egyptian Government...? Wonder why its not open COMPLETELY to more scientists...

Sniper



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Great thread op.

Humans have been on this form on Earth at least 200,000 years and we know only of the last 4,000 years really.

Even in these times, e.g. Archimedes suggested to calculate the volume of a sphere by cutting it into infinite rods = so that was calculus suggested at least 1,000 years before it was discovered.

I actually think that this is lost technology. We forget that the last climatic catastrophe - ice age - was only 10,000 years ago and would have literally scraped many man made objects off the planet. I have not considered the massive volcanoes that destroyed such as Crete / Minoa.

Also if you study the Greek science it was not science as we know it - it seem to blend science, art and philosophy - so numbers did not just represent values in an equation but also held significance / in a way that we approach science with a cold heart just cannot understand



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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So the different way of thinking about science would have brought different inventions.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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Hello, as everyone else has said..."Great Post". It is refreshing to see some time and thought, as well as some experience and critical thinking put into a post.

I was wondering if you have some references that you have used as to the "precision" of which these ancient structures were built (ex. flatness of the stones, placement, etc.) that would jibe with disproving that our current technology couldn't manufacture such things.

I agree with you in large part on your theory. I have witnessed "UFO's" and never thought to myself..."those must be alien beings" rather, that they were something that the general public at large is not aware of that is "ours".

I find it interesting that "extra-terrestrial", the etymology of the words have nothing to do with "space alien", rather "more of the land". As I have thought about this, I have always believed that most of ancient tech that is found has been by accident, or not, as Mining, Drilling and, Major construction projects are under way by large corporations. I would guess that not all major finds are done by archeology alone.

I also believe that when things such major vaults of information are destroyed, such as the ones you've mentioned, that the really important things are kept preserved.

Anyway, thanks again and look forward to more of your posts.
LTRU



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


The thing is that even if at just one point in time all, or most, of that accumulated knowledge is lost in one cataclysm, it would take a lot longer for mankind to get back on our feet.

The Vedas is one work of literature from an age long ago that says that mankind has been around, as we exist now, for at least over a million years, but like most ancient cultures they also say that all the knowledge they were given, even the knowledge to build and fly vimanas to fight, was given to them by entities not from this world, aka gods and goddesses.

EVERY ancient culture have similar stories, that the knwoledge they got was given to them, and if you look at the history of most ancient advanced civilizations, they were built pretty much overnight.

For example, in our modern day world we can even follow a timeframe in which we built different types of buildings, and used different types of materials for those buildings. The ancients build things to last for millenia, and they surely build things just once, meanwhile us in the modern world, or even not so modern world, know that our buildings can only last for so long. Not to mention that we have changed materials over time.

Anyway, not only that, but even if what you say is true that the building materials were made of iron, or steel and have long rotted away, we should have found at least the molds for those materials etc, yet we haven't.

Why is it is hard to believe that all those megalithic buildings were build by some other race, or races we came to earth long ago, and then they took with them all the building materials, and machinery? Maybe even to build more megalithic buildings in some other planets?

BTW, imo even the Giza pyramids, at least the main three pyramids were built LOOOONG before the pharaoes decided to claim them for themselves. We however see their work on the smaller pyramids, which I would think was their attempt at trying to imitate the work of the three large pyramids at Giza.

The pharaoes who saw them simply decided to take over these buildings and claim it was them who built them with slaves.

edit on 22-3-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 





9 Have they not travelled in the earth and seen how was the end of those before them? They were stronger than these in prowess, and dug up the earth, and built on it in greater abundance than these have built on it, and there came to them their messengers with clear arguments; so it was not beseeming for God that He should deal with them unjustly, but they dealt unjustly with their own souls. Section 30 The Romans Verse 9

Link


edit on 22-3-2012 by hotbread because: link



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Dude I applaud you for your information. I hope this helps and opens the minds of people to what's really going on. I myself believe in the Ancient Astronaut Theory because it's the only thing that makes since to me. The only reason why they probably have the show "Ancient Aliens" on television is to brainwash us to worrying about this subject than rather worrying about other things such as the recent bills that have been passed that violate our Bill of Rights. Keep up the good work brother.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Good post -- I'll have to read more of what you've written and think about it...

I just wanted to ADD some alternative explanations for some "apparently impossible" ancient engineering -- some bolster your points, others might offer an alternative.

>> The ancient Sphinx shows apparent WATER DAMAGE at it's base. Some of the erosion has been blamed on sand-blasting from storms, but the erosion of water shows a different pattern that we can see on some pyramids -- but not on the Sphinx. That would put this artifact at 10,000 - 20,000 years old -- as this area of the Nile was covered with fresh water then (Egypt was far wetter at that time).

>> There are some theories that the Limestone blocks on the Pyramids were POURED. The Egyptians had the phosphorus and other chemicals all around them to make a "limestone slurry" that would form a type of cement. I don't know what came of chemical composition tests to prove or disprove this theory.

>> As far as precision automation -- you are thinking TOO MUCH like a modernist. You don't need a precise instrument larger than whatever you are fashioning. Take for example "CAD-CAM" printers. The print head is actually controlled by pulleys -- so the printer head, is a tiny device being moved over the surface. If you were going to cut or create large, precise geometries, you might do this by stationing pulleys on ropes, and using a consistent geometry to move your cutting head.

>> A large number of the patterns found in the Jungles of the Yucatan and Peru, were probably visualized on paper, and then geometrically constructed by merely using sticks and ropes. It's thought that religious acolytes would trace the path of previous adherents and were required to walk for a year before being admitted into the holy secrets (likely the biggest secret; make people do long and tedious things and they will think that your wisdom is greater after working so hard to get it).

>> I can move 3 tones by myself with a tripod of wood and a bit of torque on rope and set a large stone down within about .125" -- we did that creating an oriental rock garden at my Brother's house. OK, one of the stones was probably a ton and a half -- but I figure if we did this as MORE than a weekend warrior project -- we could do more. The tripod trick might scale to about 12 tons ad most, if you are using Ash or Ironwood and tree-sized logs. There is also a "screw technique" that could lift more -- but it's painfully slow.

>> Just as a historic point; The builders of the Pyramids were NOT slaves -- this has been disproven by archaeological digs. For the most part -- the workers were religiously inspired, and if someone died while working, they were buried close to the pyramid and care was taken for mummification. Workers weren't forced.

>> I hadn't noted ANY really amazing precision in these ancient buildings -- are we saying that blocks are within a pound of each other in weight -- or that they fit really tight? A tight fight with two NON-regular blocks can be achieved by using one to grind the other (maybe by creating rapid vibrations between stones?) -- this isn't a practice used TODAY, but we have a lot of things we do that are only practical with machines. When you work by hand -- you find other techniques. I've been surprised by a lot of non-obvious craftsman tricks -- these people were NOT stupid. We've just grown up with a lot of things explained and we don't have to be clever with our hands. Working a farm or being a hand crafter can be as tricky as working in a machine shop. Just trade a lot more geometry tricks instead of calculations with Trig -- or using displacement of a liquid instead of computing volumes. Many engineering problems can be solved physically without math -- but we are not trained in these techniques so we don't think this way when looking at primitive cultures. I could only imagine trying to engineer some Byzantine era facades with today's technology.



]]]] I can't say for sure if we've had human civilizations before -- I'm depending on our history books -- which are sketchy at best
--- a LOT of what was considered solved 50 years ago was overturned with later research. Humans also seem to have a self-destructive bent, and our current Global Warming crisis seems to be met with the same urgency as Easter Island. However, they built a lot of massive stone heads to appease the God's -- rather than dealing with erosion problems...



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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I've always believed in what the OP stated in his post. Very nice and well written, and I've always wanted to make a post about this myself but I can't make threads yet until I reach the requirement. Although, I've got to admit I'm way to lazy to go in depth the way the OP did and probably would have never been able to figure out how to provide pictures.

Consider if/when our Civilization today gets wiped out and the "Elites" goes into hiding in their bunkers and wait till it's safe to return to land. With all the knowledge they have today as well as the past, I've always wonder just how advance our next Civilization will come to be. We went to the moon, invented advance computers, games, buildings, and many other things. I don't know the best way to explain this because I need a piss really bad and I'm just going to explain this as best as I can;

Let's just say hypothetically there is a catalytic event every 2,500 years. Say in 10 years we will reach 2500 years, and it took almost 2500 years to get to where we are today in terms of technology, knowledge, and all that crap. So, the elites take that with them to the Bunkers and start over and maybe get back to where we are today in 1500-2000 years giving them another 500 years to improve their knowledge and technology.

And repeats again, and again until this planet cannot substain life anymoe. I.e, when the sun runs out but by then I'm sure we''ll have the knowledge to travel very long distances accross the universe to find another planet to live on because after all, in our generation we can already travel to the moon and send robots to Mars can you imagine what's it going to be like in billions of years?

Our past civilzation had already invinted an analog computer but today we have digital. I'm sure you all get my point, but I've got to take a piss and I think I explained this a clearly as I could.

OP, I love your post. I'm going to flag this once I can figure out how once I get back from taking a piss because I'm seriously just dying for one. Posts like yous is excatly the reason why I visist this site.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


What you are saying is in harmony with a book call "Dead Man's Secrets" by Jonathan Gray. Great read, and if your interested on what really happened in the past and how to be more like those of the pass, read the book.

They had everything, but with everything comes the terrible things. Anything the technology-related to the past, is gone, and no historical find would be older than 5000 years old, unless it was buried in dirt 5 or more miles to the ground.

Great find, and your on the right path.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by FreedomCommander
They had everything, but with everything comes the terrible things. Anything the technology-related to the past, is gone, and no historical find would be older than 5000 years old, unless it was buried in dirt 5 or more miles to the ground.


Then why do we find stuff made by man, and therefore technology, going well past that date?

Earliest pottery/earthenware 31,000 years
Earlest stone tool 2,600,000 years
Earliest wooden weapon, 400,000 years



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


Exactly. I have watched stone masons at work at the Minster Stone Yards in York - they specialise in early medieval masonry and still use many traditional techniques. They have no problems doing very intricate carvings with very little effort. The way they cut huge rocks makes it look like childs play to be honest (obviously isn't, they are just very skilled at what they do).

Whilst they specialise in the early medieval stone carvings, the techniques haven't changed all that much over the years. They refuse to use modern equipment for some cuts because the machinery can damage the rocks (not sure of the science behind this but probably to do with the frequencies generated).


I totally agree with this.

I am a tradesman aircraft fitter machinist and have worked to 0.0002" tolerances when required.

... but stonework is another science/trade entirely.

As someone familiar with both metal and stone work, I see nothing at these ancient sites that falls outside what is do-able with the technology of the time.

These were created by highly educated and skilled craftsmen whose entire existence depended upon doing a good job. While the slaves did the drudge work like lugging and chipping, the master masons, architects and engineers did all the fine and critical work.

What we now get our machinery to do was once done largely by slave labor.

I suggest you look at sculptures, bridges & cathedrals made of stone to see how finely and intricately it can be worked.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:17 PM
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This seems like a good read from skimming, I'll check back later when I get some time


posting to find this



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Thanks OP for some great posts.

I think you said some things that are very reminiscent of the points Christopher Dunn makes about the precision of what the Egyptians did in some of their pyramids, only you did it it an even more convincing and emphatic manner.

You sound like one of those guys who are in much demand in industrial societies, the ones we hear that we are not training enough of. Congratulations on becoming what you are in your field.


Your thoughts about ancient vanished civilizations are in agreement with those of Michael Cremo, who comes to this way of thinking from a Vedic backround and studies of anomalous archeology.

As far as the ancient aliens go, I think there is likely something to that theory, but I understand why many people are sceptical of it.

The video of the NASA "tether incident" in near earth orbit, seems to confirm the existence of "critters" of some kind floating in space near the planet. Our civilization is still in "kindergarten" with respect to many things, I am sure. Anything seems possible.

Your posts made one thing perfectly clear though, with regard to the most impressive ancient monuments. There is much more going on with them than some in academic circles would have us believe.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 




This was made 2035 years ago out of marble - how could it have possibly been made by mere humans? lol


In fact it was probably made by Agesander, Athenodoros and Polydorus, three rather good Greeks artists, using bronze and iron chisels, wooden mallets and a large amount of talent



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
In fact it was probably made by Agesander, Athenodoros and Polydorus, three rather good Greeks artists, using bronze and iron chisels, wooden mallets and a large amount of talent


I'm glad you included the word iron in your post. It makes all the difference.

www.ehow.com...


The chisel was the sharp-edged metallic bar that directly chipped away at the stone. Greek artists had the luxury of iron chisels that dated all the way back to the early Archaic era (700-480 B.C.). The chisels were much harder than the copper and bronze ones that the Egyptians used before them. Stronger metal chisels made for more precise cutting of the stone and allowed for sculpting harder rocks like marble.


They also used iron hammers.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by ipsedixit
 


I was being sardonic ! Marble is fairly 'soft' anyway
edit on 22/3/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by Storm88Trooper
 


Could you take your racist propaganda somewhere else?
I know what the 88 on your nickname stands for, there are plenty of websites out there for that type of bull#. This just isnt one.
Egypt is africa, south America is south America, Asia is asia they all have amazing things to teach and show us.
Don't try to make this into a white supremacy thing, that # is too old now.



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