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Trade Professional (RE: Ancient Monuments): "I can not build even one wall. Here's a theory."

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posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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The only reason that sticks out for me as to why civilizations around the world began to build such huge structures would be that they were expecting a global or local devastation or had survived one. One thing is for sure they built them to last as they stand strong to this every day while perplexing many as to how or why they would build such massive structures.

We are doing these things today in the form of deep underground vaults that store the worlds treasures and histories.

I guess humans have always been aware of the 'what if' scanario
edit on 25-3-2012 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)
]

But it is still amazing as to why they would want to move such massive megaliths.
edit on 25-3-2012 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder
The only reason that sticks out for me as to why civilizations around the world began to build such huge structures would be that they were expecting a global or local devastation or had survived one. One thing is for sure they built them to last as they stand strong to this every day while perplexing many as to how or why they would build such massive structures.

We are doing these things today in the form of deep underground vaults that store the worlds treasures and histories.

I guess humans have always been aware of the 'what if' scanario
edit on 25-3-2012 by Shadow Herder because:


I suggest a much simpler reason...

When humans reach the point where they are not spending every waking moment trying to survive, as in growing, gathering, hunting food and providing shelter etc we tend to focus this now free time on other things. It is these points in our history that we show the largest progression towards civilization. I suggest they reach this type of utopia and they focused this extra time on spiritualism...




edit on 25-3-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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Is amazing I missed this thread for about 4 days now. I got to say, well done in compiling all these informations to give us an insight on your ideas, believes!

If we "humans" are responsible for forgotten secrets and theories of amazing structures and all we are doing now is re-discovering them, how do you explain the annomalies we have been seing in Space? One thing is what we have re-discovered here on earth and another about what goes on in Space?

If lets say, hypotherically speaking that what we see in space is a result of those secretes the secret societies have uncovered and have taken a giant step on us humble humans, why is it taking for the ellite to plan out this One World Order? They could hypotherically speaking wipe out anything they want based on advanced technology we have yet to see and do as they please without our approval.

If NASA is a joint organization with the ellites and secret societies, why waste so much money to "make us believe" they are trying hard to explore and find live outside of our own planet? Why waste so much resources on a "make belive" project after so, so many years?

I'm not saying all these things we have no answer for were made by Aliens, because I don't know and I don't have the answers but I am open minded about the possibilities of being us and what we see in space is ourselves with advanced secret technologies adquired by our past-selves.

Either way, we are screwed since all that knowledge is in the hands of the ones wanting more power!

Cheers!
TEO!



posted on Mar, 25 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
...
>> As far as precision automation -- you are thinking TOO MUCH like a modernist. You don't need a precise instrument larger than whatever you are fashioning. Take for example "CAD-CAM" printers. The print head is actually controlled by pulleys -- so the printer head, is a tiny device being moved over the surface. If you were going to cut or create large, precise geometries, you might do this by stationing pulleys on ropes, and using a consistent geometry to move your cutting head.
...


Did you know that there are 4 holes/shafts 20X20 cm in the great Pyramid of Giza which go through SEVERAL large blocks at angles 36° and 45° and point for example to Orion and the star Sirius?...

You can literally look from INSIDE the pyramid up through these holes/ shafts which are EXACTLY 20X20 cm and you would be looking at these stars and constellations.

You can't do that with "simple tools", not even if the stone blocks were made from poured cement.

Also, if you walk inside the pyramid you will see wonders, there are stone blocks which weight TONS that look like they are being held in place by the stones above them and there is nothing under them. They look like they could fall at any moment but have held in place for thousands of years, and probably more.




Give me time -- I can figure out most anything I can look at...

Boring into sedimentary Limestone (the blocks of the pyramids) was likely done AFTER the blocks were placed/poured. Lining up with a star or the sun -- that's child's play. These folks have people who wait around for alignments -- once you have one, you line up the star in a "tube" of papyrus -- the longer, the more accurate -- then fix the post in place. The main issue is keeping the reflected sunlight they use to bore the hole steady after they've lined up with the constellation. They use the same reflector / signaling system that they did for war posts. It was well known during the time of Alexander-- but he likely got it from the Egyptians...

The water in the wooden wedge technique probably only works to cleave rocks that are not supported on all sides -- so my guess is some kind of rotating bore.

... OK, I'm remembering that the irrigation system that was pioneered by Alexander AFTER he conquered the Egyptians allowed for a "screw mechanism" to elevate water, and thus irrigate crops miles further from the source of the water. Oxen were used to turn the screw. If Egyptians were pumping water to work some architectural magic -- a LOT of things are possible.

A slurry of water and a stone screw could be used to bore through these shafts. The rocks lifted high and stuck to the sealing were "floated up" and cemented in place. Like I mentioned; the huge slab blocks of the Pyramid are likely an early form of concrete. Since they are sedimentary rocks -- only a very detailed chemical report could shed light on wether the blocks of the pyramids are poured or moved as large boulders. We KNOW they built earthen ramps to move the heavy blocks -- but even rolling these huge blocks on rolling logs is quite an achievement.

ALSO, a series of aqueducts and a slurry of limestone might explain movement of large boulders -- as we've got lot's of pictograms showing Egyptians pouring large urns in front of the blocks being moved. I think there are lots of ways that primitive technology can be used with vast amounts of manpower, before we try and explain it with some technology no longer available.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by Hanslune
 


They have it wrong. A bunch of experts can say a rock was 1 million years old by the looks of it, only to be shot down by a witness that said that they were there when the rock was made.

You can't expect everything to be told to you that it was somewhere around 1 million years old, carbon dating can only go back a certain time, say in the hundreds to low thousands of years.

I can understand your desire to know what it's really like back in those times, but they are to only be looked at as times that should never be repeated, times where lasers were a reality and that people, kids were in bloodlusts, chopping heads and parading down the street with them, bombs so small yet so deadly that were able to level massive cities full of people in less than 10 seconds, more dangerous than nukes, that is why it had to be a deluge, nothing can last 40 days underwater and still retain it's shape, plus add the corrosion rate and soon enough the item is nothing but dust. The only things that did survive were stone based items, but they would be very worn down.

We need to leave some parts of the past alone, killing people is what part of that dreadful pass had in store, and always around the corner. To be honest, I never want to see that walk the Earth Surface again.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by SteelToe
 
you believe wet wood can expand and split the rock? where is a demonstration of that or is it just talk? Maybe if they said they froze the wet wood and that split it I might believe it but not wet wood. And you talk about just moving it like it's no big deal. Just because people make demonstrations with smaller scale models doesn't mean it will work when scaled up.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 
well don't say I didn't try to pry your head out of the sand! you just go right ahead and believe that nonsense



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by Hanslune
 


They have it wrong. A bunch of experts can say a rock was 1 million years old by the looks of it, only to be shot down by a witness that said that they were there when the rock was made.

You can't expect everything to be told to you that it was somewhere around 1 million years old, carbon dating can only go back a certain time, say in the hundreds to low thousands of years.

I can understand your desire to know what it's really like back in those times, but they are to only be looked at as times that should never be repeated, times where lasers were a reality and that people, kids were in bloodlusts, chopping heads and parading down the street with them, bombs so small yet so deadly that were able to level massive cities full of people in less than 10 seconds, more dangerous than nukes, that is why it had to be a deluge, nothing can last 40 days underwater and still retain it's shape, plus add the corrosion rate and soon enough the item is nothing but dust. The only things that did survive were stone based items, but they would be very worn down.

We need to leave some parts of the past alone, killing people is what part of that dreadful pass had in store, and always around the corner. To be honest, I never want to see that walk the Earth Surface again.


Where is the evidence for such advanced technology? Without it, you are simply talking about another interesting theory.

You may not like to believe in the standard explanations but at least they have evidence to back them up - it isn't exciting (it is to me but i'm sad) but it is proven to work.

And for the life of me, i still cannot understand why people choose not to believe the techniques used when there are records left of those methods by the people using them (not for all methods, certainly, but there is still large amount of testament).

Also, i understand people do not like constant Roman references, but the fact is they used ancient techniques and also developed their own methods. They also left records and testament as to how things were built and the processes used. This includes the monstrous foundation stones at Baalbek.

It is also important to note that in the past, skilled cratfsmen were cherished and revered (in most cases). If you do something exclusively, you get very good at it over time.


reg

posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 08:17 AM
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Hey, great thread (from what i've read so far), just wanted to say that a few years back i worked at a metal engineering place so can definitely appreciate your skills. I was only the labourer there but started to pick a few things up and was really enjoying it before i had an accident and had to leave, but it was without doubt the best and most interesting job i've had.

The reason I'm telling you this is because one of the old guys who had been doing this job years went on holiday to Egypt. When he came back he told us the quality of work and planning that would have been needed to build the 3 main pyramids at Giza was beyhond is comprehension. It actually became somewhat of a hobby for him afterwards learning and studying about ancient monuments.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by Xtrozero
 
well don't say I didn't try to pry your head out of the sand! you just go right ahead and believe that nonsense



Ok how did they move, cut place the stones?



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by Hanslune
 


You can't expect everything to be told to you that it was somewhere around 1 million years old, carbon dating can only go back a certain time, say in the hundreds to low thousands of years.


[in my best James the English butler tone] One doesn't use carbon dating on rocks, SIR


Radiocarbon dating - for dating organic materials - yes only works to about 60,000

Dendrochronology - for dating trees, and objects made from wood, but also very important for calibrating radiocarbon dates

Thermoluminescence dating - for dating inorganic material including ceramics

Optically stimulated luminescence or optical dating for archaeological applications

Potassium-argon dating - for dating fossilized hominid remains

Numismatics - many coins have the date of their production written on them or their use is specified in the historical record

Archaeomagnetic dating - Clay lined fire hearths take on a magnetic moment pointing to the North Pole each time they are fired and then cool. The position of the North Pole for the last time the fire hearth was used can be determined and compared to charts of known locations and dates

Magnetic Properties of Lead used to establish dates

Amino acid dating

Obsidian hydration dating - a geochemical method of determining age in either absolute or relative terms of an artifact made of obsidian

Rehydroxylation dating- for dating ceramic materials

Paleomagnetism: the polarity of the Earth changes at a knowable rate.

Tephrochronology: volcanic ash has its own signature for each eruption. In a sedimentary sequence the associated material within the ash layer can be dated, giving a date for the eruption. If this ash is found anywhere else in the world, a date will already be known (bearing in mind transportation time).

Oxygen isotope chronostratigraphy


Summary of archaeological dating techniques


I can understand your desire to know what [snip] that is why it had to be a deluge, nothing can last 40 days underwater and still retain it's shape, plus add the corrosion rate and soon enough the item is nothing but dust. The only things that did survive were stone based items, but they would be very worn down.


Oh no a creationist, well all rational discussion ends, lol, Sorry dudette no deluge, lots of stuff survived from earlier times besides rocks


We need to leave some parts of the past alone, killing people is what part of that dreadful pass had in store, and always around the corner. To be honest, I never want to see that walk the Earth Surface again.


I must respectfully disagree, we must root out as much knowledge that we can of the past
edit on 26/3/12 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Flavian

You may not like to believe in the standard explanations but at least they have evidence to back them up - it isn't exciting (it is to me but i'm sad) but it is proven to work.

And for the life of me, i still cannot understand why people choose not to believe the techniques used when there are records left of those methods by the people using them (not for all methods, certainly,


I'm not sure I would agree that the standard explinations do have evidence to back them up, and since it would seem that much knowledge as been suppressed and hidden do we actually trust the "official" explinations?

There also does seem to be records that would support advanced technology, pictures and relics that look remarkably like aircrafts and helicopters is one example, also evidence to suggest machines of some sort were infact used.

I would say, for the life of me I can not understand peoples reluctance to acknowledge ancient people had advanced technology, reguardless of where it came from?



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 

just because I can't tell you (neither can experts) how the stones were cut and transported doesn't mean they could do it with wood chips, water and dragging with ropes. the wet wood chips idea is so stupid I don't know where to start. Whatever was used was either outside our technological knowledge or was similar to what we would use today because you can't just "scale up" logs and ropes, things don't work that way. Quarrying a stone of that size out of a trench is probably the most difficult way you could imagine to do something like that, modern quarries break the stones off a cliff face not out of a trench in the ground and we have modern equipment.

A lot of people just brush the reality of this aside and come up with crazier ideas than aliens how this got done. If the wet wood chips is all you got, then why not show how it is possible? If this low tech stuff works then why don't we see it all the time? How much time does that take? I mean water can erode stone over millions of years, so when did they start this work?

Do you have any idea how much force is needed to split (not cut) a fifteen foot wide by hundred foot long piece of stone from its base? The pressure required would not be produced from wet wood chips. If you think about it, don't you think the water would squeeze out of the wood before the pressure built up enough to split stone? Like I said, if they said they froze the wood chips I might kind of believe it because ice can do amazing things to stone. So do you want to change your mind now and tell me they had portable freezers?



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by Cataclysm
 


Yes a foundation was there but not the stones we're talking about. The DIA has been excavating at Baalbek for over a century

Blackmarketeer report

It is there opinion that the trils are Roman and Roman emplaced



Thank you for the cite.

However, the Kropp - Lohmann paper (cited by Blackmarketeer in the other ATS tread) does not specifically address the origin of the Trilithon stones. Kroop - Lohmann were looking at analogies in construction techniqes between the temples at Baalbek and Jerusalem. When the word "trilithon" is used in their paper, it is referring to the podium area below the 6 hugh columns, not the three 800-1200 ton stones.

Jiri Mruzek's detailed analysis, and conclusion that these 3 Trilithon stones pre-date Roman construction at the site is by far the most credible. vejprty.com...
edit on 26-3-2012 by Cataclysm because: insert "conclusion" in last sentence.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by bottleslingguy
 

you believe wet wood can expand and split the rock? where is a demonstration of that or is it just talk? Maybe if they said they froze the wet wood and that split it I might believe it but not wet wood. And you talk about just moving it like it's no big deal. Just because people make demonstrations with smaller scale models doesn't mean it will work when scaled up.


I absolutely believe wet wood can expand and fracture stone. In fact just water alone can do it. Expanding and contracting is not a good thing for hard object like stone and they fracture easy.

It takes much less energy and effort to fracture a stone than it does to cut it. By using a number of various methods it makes sense and is much more efficient then sawing or drilling the entire block. First a series of small holes are made. Then put wood in the hole. Using fire and water they can heat and cool the stone and cause it to crack.

Egypt's Ten Greatest Discoveries: Quarrying Techniques


Quarry Techniques pdf



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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OP. That is the best and most believable theory of mankinds lost history, that I have ever heard/read.
Really, great job and thank you. Keep up the work on this. You may very well be on to something.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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www.youtube.com...

This video was really interesting, about an hour into it, it discuss's aliens. According to UFO and abduction researchers it appears there is evidence to suggest that people in the process of being abducted were suddenly released when they envoked the help of Jesus Christ! Apparently this is a well known fact among these reasearchers but because they "fear" ridicule from thier peers they keep these findings "off the record" !?

A few days ago I asked a question in this thread about WHY the TPTB would even care about creating a NWO and also prepare for a cataclysmic event? A possible reason might be that because they have made an alliance with "Satan", and a part of that deal is to get the mass's to reject Jesus Christ and forfieght thier chance to be "saved", and in effect give up thier souls, wow, that's a deep thought.

For the record, I have always considered myself to be an agnostic, so I appreciate that "logic" and "common sence" have always seemed to be incompatiable with religion for myself, but if the reason I have always had doubts is a direct result of not having been given the correct history to begin with to make an informed descision, and If the illunanti infact control education and science that makes a lot of sence to me actually.

I hope others will take the time to watch this documentary, it is long, but it sure made me think, and look forward to discussing with others thier thoughts on the ideas shared in this film. Once I have a chance to "process" what it means to me perhaps I will create a thread.

p.s. lol, it is kinda amazing I happened to run across this film within days of asking questions this directly addresses.....divine intervention?




posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy
just because I can't tell you (neither can experts) how the stones were cut and transported doesn't mean they could do it with wood chips, water and dragging with ropes. the wet wood chips idea is so stupid I don't know where to start. Whatever was used was either outside our technological knowledge or was similar to what we would use today because you can't just "scale up" logs and ropes, things don't work that way. Quarrying a stone of that size out of a trench is probably the most difficult way you could imagine to do something like that, modern quarries break the stones off a cliff face not out of a trench in the ground and we have modern equipment.


You need to think in ways of someone with basic tools and a lot of time, which so many here seem to not to be able to comprehend. They didn't pick it up...they dragged it, so how else then but to cut a path up a ramp?



A lot of people just brush the reality of this aside and come up with crazier ideas than aliens how this got done. If the wet wood chips is all you got, then why not show how it is possible? If this low tech stuff works then why don't we see it all the time? How much time does that take? I mean water can erode stone over millions of years, so when did they start this work?


I'm thinking of suggestions, if one doesn't work then we look at other methods...what we don't do is sit in a chair and say Aliens or old advance machines did it. As I have said they had 100s if not 1000s of years to perfect their skills. YOU seem to want to argue possible methods without bringing one to the table yourself, or are you going to do the alien thing too?



Do you have any idea how much force is needed to split (not cut) a fifteen foot wide by hundred foot long piece of stone from its base? The pressure required would not be produced from wet wood chips. If you think about it, don't you think the water would squeeze out of the wood before the pressure built up enough to split stone? Like I said, if they said they froze the wood chips I might kind of believe it because ice can do amazing things to stone. So do you want to change your mind now and tell me they had portable freezers?


Are you sure? How much pressure is needed? Give me another method and we can run with it...BTW I'm 100% sure they didn't split the whole side at once from the stone wall.

Please make you point and add how you think they did it, if your answer is nothing more than "I don't know" I can't say you are adding much to the discussion.

I'm really open minded to anything that doesn't have aliens, ancient advance machines or super mental power as the way it was done.
edit on 26-3-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by Cataclysm


Jiri Mruzek's detailed analysis, and conclusion that these 3 Trilithon stones pre-date Roman construction at the site is by far the most credible.


Sorry JM has no creditablity; how many years has he excavated at the site? How much experience does he have with bronze age masonry and roman masonry techniques?

You might want to actually re-read Blackmarteers summary of what the report says.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by SteelToe
 


Having seen examples of tree roots and water eroding rocky mountain sides I guess I can see your point of how the methods you suggest might have worked, but once the rocks were even split, how would you explain the precision stone work, chisals?



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