Five little girls

I honestly hope that you make a speedy recovery!

As for the "5-little girls", perhaps they once lived where you now reside.

A few comments and questions,

First and formost, this did not kill you, you will grow stronger, spiritually, and emotionally. You have been hardened and exposed to death first hand, it will be liess frightening when it comes for real, maybe even welcoming.

Second, I am glad you are still with us. While I'm no Holy Roller, and in general disagree with Biblical stuff. I am spiritual, and belive in a higher power, and in this instance I agree with Paperclip. It feels right to me somehow. I guess just trust yourself in this and not me, but it feels about on target.

Thirdly, in what porfession are you that you have a bodycount to attone for? Desert Storm Vet? Military of some kind?

Well best of luck to you, and here's wishing you a speedy, no extra orifices recovery!

-ADHDsux4me

I have heard of people seeing visions of a raven or a female child being in the room by them when they got close to death. I believe they call these Harbingers of Death, I have heard that this is true and people actually do see these things, it�s not a legend. I cannot find much about it online, so far, let me look around some more.

At the moment of your death your brain releases a final dose of '___' along with a natural MAOI, '___' is a fascinating chemical, one that I believe has some relevance to spiritualism, and interestingly enough, all of the hallucinagenic alkaloids are chemically related to '___', as well as the very chemicals that the root of human consciousness is composed of. Tryptamines are very dangerous, many of them deadly, but vital to human consciousness as well. Another interesting aspect of '___' is that children produce high levels of it until the age of roughly 13, after which the pineal gland begins to calcify. Even more interesting is the fact that in the synapse of the brain, these alkaloids can act as superconductors in the presence of monoatomic metals, particularly gold, and allow the enlightened a total awareness of the electromagnetic spectrum. I am no biologist however, if any of you are, I would love more info on the subject as '___' research is extraordinarily rare. But to make a long story short, No telling what you will see when you die.

[edit on 25-9-2004 by twitchy]

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
Thirdly, in what porfession are you that you have a bodycount to attone for? Desert Storm Vet? Military of some kind?
-ADHDsux4me

I was in Vietnam but most of the figures were from futher in the past than that

I would also like to add that I seemed to be wandering back and forth between the land of the living and the land of the dead for lack of better words. At times we could barely see each ather and other times we could interact a little. I also felt there were other "things" just outside of my vision.

I cannot stress enough at NO time was I afraid or felt threatend, it was not good or bad it just was.

I hope this is making sense to yall I am trying to discribe the undiscribable

I am looking forward to hearing more If anyone knows anymore

That is so cool... I'm going to go with paperclips comments. The guide things seems right. When my grandmother died my grandpa's face appeared in my mom's dream, he had a big smile on his face, he wasn't wearing his glasses, and he looked so happy. When she woke up she got a call from my uncle saying that she died. But my mom wasn't worried because of the dream she had.

It's hard to describe the undescribable, and it's hard to talk about things that aren't of this physical realm we're living in. Sometimes people try to attach scientific ideas onto a realm of energy but I don't do that. I believe there is another dimension we aren't aware of until we pass. Our beings are stuck in a physical body until the time of death, and we when we die our energy beings connect again to the dimension that is connected with everything. Whether we want to admit it or not we are all part of something much bigger then we can comprehend, we're energy, that's it. And when our bodies give out on us, we are once again set free. It's comforting to know that you have guides on the other side helping you along your way. Apparantly your not done doing something so you couldn't go. This is good for your family and friends that way your stuck with them for much longer. lol.... They'll enjoy that.
Hope your feeling better Amuk.

Amuk

I'm glad you're doing better and sorry that you had to endure this ailment. I have been on the edge of death many times, either nearly dead or in situations where death was imminent. Both are profound events and, in some ways, life changing.

With regard to appendicitis, consider the following:

A feared complication of appendicitis is sepsis, a condition in which infecting bacteria enter the blood and travel to other parts of the body. This is a very serious, even life-threatening complication. Fortunately, it occurs infrequently.
www.medicinenet.com...

Sepsis: Commonly called a "blood stream infection." The presence of bacteria (bacteremia) or other infectious organisms or their toxins in the blood (septicemia) or in other tissue of the body. Sepsis may be associated with clinical symptoms of systemic (bodywide) illness, such as fever, chills, malaise (generally feeling "rotten"), low blood pressure, and mental status changes. Sepsis can be a serious situation, a life threatening disease calling for urgent and comprehensive care.

Treatment depends on the type of infection, but usually begins with antibiotics or similar medications.

Also known as blood poisoning, septicemia.
www.medterms.com...

I think this pretty much explains your illusions or hallucinations, or perhaps more accurately, delirium.

Delirium

ONDRIA C. GLEASON, M.D., University of Oklahoma College of Medicine, Tulsa, Oklahoma

Delirium is characterized by an acute change in cognition and a disturbance of consciousness, usually resulting from an underlying medical condition or from medication or drug withdrawal.

Delirium affects 10 to 30 percent of hospitalized patients with medical illness; more than 50 percent of persons in certain high-risk populations are affected. The associated morbidity and mortality make diagnosis of this condition extremely important.

Patients with delirium can present with agitation, somnolence, withdrawal, and psychosis. This variation in presentation can lead to diagnostic confusion and, in some cases, incorrect attribution of symptoms to a primary psychiatric disorder. To make the distinction, it is important to obtain the history of the onset and course of the condition from family members or caregivers.

Primary care physicians must be able to recognize delirium so that the underlying etiology can be ascertained and addressed. The management of delirium involves identifying and correcting the underlying problem, and symptomatically managing any behavioral or psychiatric symptoms. Low doses of antipsychotic drugs can help to control agitation.

The use of benzodiazepines should be avoided except in cases of alcohol or sedative-hypnotic withdrawal. Environmental interventions, including frequent reorientation of patients by nursing staff and education of patients and families, should be employed in all cases. (Am Fam Physician 2003;67:1027-34. Copyright� 2002 American Academy of Family Physicians.)

Without careful assessment, delirium can easily be confused with a number of primary psychiatric disorders because many of the signs and symptoms of delirium are also present in conditions such as dementia, depression, and psychosis.

Some characteristic signs and symptoms of delirium are described in this article. All of these symptoms may not be present in every patient. The presentation of a patient with delirium will fluctuate during the course of the condition and even during the course of a day. The diagnostic criteria for delirium are listed in Table 1.1


TABLE 1
Diagnostic Criteria for Delirium

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A. Disturbance of consciousness (i.e., reduced clarity of awareness about the environment) with reduced ability to focus, sustain, or shift attention.

B. A change in cognition (e.g., memory deficit, disorientation, language disturbance) or development of a perceptual disturbance that is not better accounted for by a preexisting, established, or evolving dementia.

C. The disturbance develops over a short period of time (usually hours to days) and tends to fluctuate during the course of a day.

D. Evidence from the history, physical examination, or laboratory findings indicate that the disturbance is caused by direct physiologic consequences of a general medical condition.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reprinted with permission from Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders: DSM-IV-TR. Washington, D.C., American Psychiatric Association, 2000:143. Copyright 2000, American Psychiatric Association.
www.aafp.org...

If you have never experienced these things, they can be quite troubling. You should discuss your experience with your MD. There may be notes on your condition, if observed by staff, in your record.

Tell me about your tour in Vietnam, sometime.


[edit on 04/9/26 by GradyPhilpott]

Good luck with your recovery!!!!
Even though I'm uniformly Christian paperclips comment makes sense.

What do you think the fact that there were five of them signifies? Past lives? People you've killed? Your 5 bodily elemenst as previously thought?
Either way, good luck.

P.S Did they all look the same?

Thanks for the info Grady

I have also been around death quite often and have seen dying people talk to wives, girlfriends, mothers, fathers, etc all of which were alive (and not there).

I am sure delrium accounts for most, if not all, of my experiance, which I might add was quite different than my NDE in '71 (shot through chest)

What I am mostly wondering about is

How much, if any, is real?
Where do these images come from?
Why do we get them?
Are they symbols for other things?
Does the soul live on?.....I think so
Where does it go?.....I dont know this one
WHO THE HELL WERE THE FIVE LITTLE GIRLS?

Originally posted by Seeking Soul
P.S Did they all look the same?

Identical

I think the images come from our subconscious. Many times when you're feeling sick, the borderline between the conscious & subconscious fades so that both conscious & subconscious images come thru very clearly.

I had a mild episode late yesterday afternoon when I was feeling kind of sick & tired. The borderline I spoke of kind of faded then & I kept seeing this yellow snake wrapped around me while slipping in & out of a not so comfortable nap. I have no idea what it meant. But as my conscious awareness does not like snakes, I tried to transmit the image elsewhere. When it wouldn't go, I forced myself awake.

The five girls are Death or at least what your subconcious seems to think of it.I presume you have no fear of death and are at peace with it because that would explain the somewhat stereotypical 'innocent' images you envisioned.

There's something that you are not doing and should be doing .That was why your past lives were replayed like you described.I don't think anyone can figure it out for you but urself.It may be more obvious than you think.

There are a few different things that I could see these 5 little girls being/representing, although its all just me guessing.

But most, if not all, of their more obscure meanings can only be known by you.
I would say that, just like in dreams, they are symbolic in a personal and subconscious way.

I think it is very possible that they were indeed "spirits" and not just "drug hallucinations". Maybe your brain gave them the form of little girls, or maybe they choose that form for whatever reasons.

There is really no sure-fire way for us to know, and you have the best chance out of all us of figuring out the meaning.

Im sure the more you think about it, the clearer it will become. I just suggest that you not try to force the "eureka" moment. In time they will reveal their meaning to you, be they spirits or hallucinations, you had them for a reason.

Good luck, and im very glad to see that you are doing better

Amuk, are you familiar with Jung's work with archetypes? Collective unconscious? Or freud's id/ego/superego?

It is my current theory that each of the little girls portrayed or showed you a symbolic interpretation of your subconscious desires. For instance, one little girl, the one who showed you the life as a Roman soldier, might have represented your ego, your personal drive for duty. Your actions representing your previous actions in this life.

The life as a mercenary was probably your id, trying to encourage you into fufilling your subconscious desires to circumvent societal norms. The final life shown as a germanic warlord was probably the superergo, the balance of the two.

DE

Originally posted by Amuk
What I am mostly wondering about is

How much, if any, is real?

In my opinion, none of this was real. It was a either illusory or hallucinatory.

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...

Where do these images come from?

In my opinion, these images come from your "memory banks." The signals from your brain, because of the state of delirium, are confused and incoherent, which explains the confused and incoherent behavior of those who are delirious.

Why do we get them?

Why not? The brain never stops and the firing of nerve cells is the function of the brain. The imagery of delirium is most likely the same phenomenon as dream imagery.

Are they symbols for other things? WHO THE HELL WERE THE FIVE LITTLE GIRLS?

I'm not even going to get into the dream interpretation area. There really isn't anything that can objectively measure dream imagery and any symbolism is merely conjecture and would likely fall into a catagory with astrology and speaking with the dead. Not everyone will agree with me and you can investigate these things, if you so desire. I would just chalk it up to delirium and leave it at that. You were ill and the illness affected your mental state. What are the chances that something meaningful could come from incoherence?

Here are some links which may help you in your understanding of your condition:

encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...
reference.allrefer.com...
home.comcast.net...
www.merck.com...
www.priory.com...

Does the soul live on?.....I think so
Where does it go?.....I dont know this one

Can anyone know about life after death? In my opinion, not experientially. To paraphrase Lao Tse, "He who speaks does not know; He who knows cannot speak." If you are reading this and you have been pronounced dead, you are the victim of a misdiagnosis.

Here are some links I put up elsewhere that may help you with your questions. These quotes and links come from The Urantia Book. You can choose to believe or not. Personally, I like the UB, because it synthesizes so many disciplines and boils them all down to one simple credo. It is optimistic in its view of humanity and dissolves many of the barriers that divide science and theology.

The life after death is no different in the essentials than the mortal existence. Everything we do in this life which is good contributes directly to the enhancement of the future life. Real religion does not foster moral indolence and spiritual laziness by encouraging the vain hope of having all the virtues of a noble character bestowed upon one as a result of passing through the portals of natural death. True religion does not belittle man's efforts to progress during the mortal lease on life. Every mortal gain is a direct contribution to the enrichment of the first stages of the immortal survival experience.
mercy.urantia.org...

�the law of deliberately nourished evil is universally and unerringly executed. "The wages of sin is death"--eternal obliteration.
mercy.urantia.org...

3. THE PHENOMENON OF DEATH

Urantians generally recognize only one kind of death, the physical cessation of life energies; but concerning personality survival there are really three kinds:

1. Spiritual (soul) death. This kind of death is final in its significance irrespective of the temporary continuation of the living energies of the physical and mind mechanisms. From the cosmic standpoint the mortal is already dead; the continuing life merely indicates the persistence of the material momentum of cosmic energies.

2. Intellectual (mind) death. On the universe records a mortal personality is considered to have met with death whenever the essential mind circuits of human will-action have been destroyed. And again, this is death, irrespective of the continuing function of the living mechanism of the physical body. The body minus the volitional mind is no longer human, but according to the prior choosing of the human will, the soul of such an individual may survive.

3. Physical (body and mind) death. When death overtakes a human being, the Adjuster remains in the citadel of the mind until it ceases to function as an intelligent mechanism, about the time that the measurable brain energies cease their rhythmic vital pulsations. Following this dissolution the Adjuster takes leave of the vanishing mind, just as unceremoniously as entry was made years before, and proceeds to Divinington by way of Uversa.

After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

[�]

5. SURVIVAL OF THE HUMAN SELF

Selfhood is a cosmic reality whether material, morontial, or spiritual. The actuality of the personal is the bestowal of the Universal Father acting in and of himself or through his manifold universe agencies. To say that a being is personal is to recognize the relative individuation of such a being within the cosmic organism. The living cosmos is an all but infinitely integrated aggregation of real units, all of which are relatively subject to the destiny of the whole. But those that are personal have been endowed with the actual choice of destiny acceptance or of destiny rejection.

That which comes from the Father is like the Father eternal, and this is just as true of personality, which God gives by his own freewill choice, as it is of the divine Thought Adjuster, an actual fragment of God. Man's personality is eternal but with regard to identity a conditioned eternal reality. Having appeared in response to the Father's will, personality will attain Deity destiny, but man must choose whether or not he will be present at the attainment of such destiny. In default of such choice, personality attains experiential Deity directly, becoming a part of the Supreme Being. The cycle is foreordained, but man's participation therein is optional, personal, and experiential.

Mortal identity is a transient time-life condition in the universe; it is real only in so far as the personality elects to become a continuing universe phenomenon. This is the essential difference between man and an energy system: The energy system must continue, it has no choice; but man has everything to do with determining his own destiny. The Adjuster is truly the path to Paradise, but man himself must pursue that path by his own deciding, his freewill choosing.

[�]

True it is, you mortals are of earthly, animal origin; your frame is indeed dust. But if you actually will, if you really desire, surely the heritage of the ages is yours, and you shall someday serve throughout the universes in your true characters--children of the Supreme God of experience and divine sons of the Paradise Father of all personalities.
[Presented by a Solitary Messenger of Orvonton.]

www.urantia.org...

Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father's will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father's loving plan of personality survival and the Sons' merciful ministry of salvation.
mercy.urantia.org...

Religious experience, being essentially spiritual, can never be fully understood by the material mind; hence the function of theology, the psychology of religion. The essential doctrine of the human realization of God creates a paradox in finite comprehension. It is well-nigh impossible for human logic and finite reason to harmonize the concept of divine immanence, God within and a part of every individual, with the idea of God's transcendence, the divine domination of the universe of universes. These two essential concepts of Deity must be unified in the faith-grasp of the concept of the transcendence of a personal God and in the realization of the indwelling presence of a fragment of that God in order to justify intelligent worship and validate the hope of personality survival. The difficulties and paradoxes of religion are inherent in the fact that the realities of religion are utterly beyond the mortal capacity for intellectual comprehension.
mercy.urantia.org...

If this were a mechanistic universe, if the First Great Source and Center were only a force and not also a personality, if all creation were a vast aggregation of physical matter dominated by precise laws characterized by unvarying energy actions, then might perfection obtain, even despite the incompleteness of universe status. There would be no disagreement; there would be no friction. But in our evolving universe of relative perfection and imperfection we rejoice that disagreement and misunderstanding are possible, for thereby is evidenced the fact and the act of personality in the universe. And if our creation is an existence dominated by personality, then can you be assured of the possibilities of personality survival, advancement, and achievement; we can be confident of personality growth, experience, and adventure. What a glorious universe, in that it is personal and progressive, not merely mechanical or even passively perfect!
mercy.urantia.org...

Sin is never purely local in its effects. The administrative sectors of the universes are organismal; the plight of one personality must to a certain extent be shared by all. Sin, being an attitude of the person toward reality, is destined to exhibit its inherent negativistic harvest upon any and all related levels of universe values. But the full consequences of erroneous thinking, evil-doing, or sinful planning are experienced only on the level of actual performance. The transgression of universe law may be fatal in the physical realm without seriously involving the mind or impairing the spiritual experience. Sin is fraught with fatal consequences to personality survival only when it is the attitude of the whole being, when it stands for the choosing of the mind and the willing of the soul.

Evil and sin visit their consequences in material and social realms and may sometimes even retard spiritual progress on certain levels of universe reality, but never does the sin of any being rob another of the realization of the divine right of personality survival. Eternal survival can be jeopardized only by the decisions of the mind and the choice of the soul of the individual himself.
mercy.urantia.org...

Paper 47 The Seven Mansion Worlds

Paper 48 The Morontia Life

The Urantia Book


www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 04/9/27 by GradyPhilpott]

[edit on 04/9/27 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by Amuk
which I might add was quite different than my NDE in '71 (shot through chest)

What I am mostly wondering about is

How much, if any, is real?
Where do these images come from?
Why do we get them?
Are they symbols for other things?
Does the soul live on?.....I think so
Where does it go?.....I dont know this one
WHO THE HELL WERE THE FIVE LITTLE GIRLS?

Amuk,

I in no way mean to press the issue, but is there any way you could relay the feelings/images/etc... around your '71 NDE? I understand completely if you can't/won't, but a comparison of the 2 could prove pretty helpful. It's possible that the difference lay in redemption (as it has been mentioned before).

I say that because I get the feeling that your previous NDE was not a pleasant experience.

How much, if any, is real?

Most likely impossible to tell, but if there are any similarities to your previous NDE then that would be a good starting point.

Where do these images come from?

If they are not hallucinations from drugs then the 3 possibilities that stick out in my mind are that they are

1) figments of your imagination that never actually happened and are a result of your minds attempt to make sense of such a long blank period of time. - this sort of thing occurrs in short term coma patients who have no immediate memory of the time they were "out", but as they remember the event grows into something fantastic.

*NOTE: I do not mean that to be insulting...not calling you a liar or anything, I happen to believe you actually, but just presenting this as a possibility for your visions and their reality.

2) images being shown to you in order to give you back the knowledge you accumulated through these lives in order to help you "complete" the knowledge your "soul" contains of all it's lives in preparation for the next one.

3) You are viewing snippets of other lives/times that have directly/indirectly affected yours or have some special meaning to you.

- Do the time periods involved (roman, viking, etc...) have any special meaning to you or do you have any special affection/kinship to them?

Why do we get them?

Who knows...it really depends on what your belief in the afterlife is. For istance Athiests believe that they are our minds attempt to make passage into non-existence bearable....a brief illusion before the darkness if you will.

others believe that we are seeing the sum total of the souls existence throughout the ages in order to prep it for the next life it chooses.....meaning that if your soul reincarnates to someone else after your death then your life may eventually be one of those visions seen as a past life.

explanations are as limitless as viewpoints on the afterlife...all we know is that people do see them.

Are they symbols for other things?
Does the soul live on?.....I think so
Where does it go?.....I dont know this one

Those are the million dollar questions......it's a matter of philosophy at this point. It's nearly impossible to research it and come out with facts...b/c experiences/beliefs/etc...seem to be as infinite as the people who experience them.

WHO THE HELL WERE THE FIVE LITTLE GIRLS?

This is actually the part that bothering me the most. I'm searching through my archives and sources, but I know that I've heard of this before. I'll keep searching and relate the relevant material as soon as I find it (I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow so it may be a week or so, so don't think I've abandonded the thread/subject/you if I don't post for a bit).

I'm glad you're back with us and I will join the choir of everyone else in their sentiments.

PolluX

I dont take it you are calling me a liar I think you are, just like me, wondering about the validity of my visions. I will be the first to admit the whole thing could be a result of posion in my system and the Morphine drip as Grady and a couple others seem to think, but I think there was more to it than that, HOW much more is my question.

I guess the main question for me is was it an outside force showing me things OR was it my own mind trying to make sense of what was going on.

My first one was, I guess, not really that much different other than I seen NO ONE in it, no girls, no lives, no people, NOTHING. I was not scared and my only regret was my family was half a world away and I could not tell them how much I loved them and was going to miss them. My feelings in both were about the same, a calm acceptience of what was happening.


The Girls are what are bothering me, too. I can not help but to think the answer to my question lays with them.

hey amuk, sorry i took so long getting here, but good discussion so far.

regardless of the reason of your vision/dream, delirium, or whatever, I feel you were shown those things for a reason, whether subconscious or not, however I would lean towards more of the paranormal aspect than the scientific aspect of the situation.

Five Little Girls: The number 5 in hinduism is an auspicious number depending on the path of hinduism that is being followed, ie.... 5 parts of sanatan dharma, 5 is also the number of Shiva, the god of destruction, also in pujas and worship, offerings are sometimes done 5 times, or a mantra is said 5 times. However I have no knowledge of "5 children or girls" in any of our stories. I do believe that the number 5 not only in Hinduism but also in dream interpretation is a connection between the earthly and the divine.

My interpretation would be that this message/dream/vision was sent from the divine. Why 5 girls, I am not sure, that may be a part of your subconscious of why you saw "girls" and not "angels" or "men" etc. Perhaps you have or had a special connection to children especially a "girl". As others have also mention, the girls could represent innocence, truth, pure, good, etc.

As for the seeing your various lives, as you know i do believe in reincarnation so it is not a surprise to me that you would see your past lives. I have always believed that when you die, you are sent to a waiting room of sorts, some may call it heaven, but I think of it more of like the principal's office in a large school. While there you are shown all of your past lives, of the rights and wrongs committed, if you have lived a virtuous life and have learned all your lessons you then graduate to a higher plane, but if you didn't you are sent back to this plane to live another life where you are given a chance to do it all over again. IMO depending on how bad your actions in a previous life, the stature of your birth is affected, ie born rich, poor, handicapped, disfigured, etc.

So putting it all together, I would lean towards a divine message of good or truth. You were shown scenes of various lives, actions you have committed, (i am not sure what you perceived in these various scenes, good or bad) but perhaps you were shown mistakes or sins committed in your earlier reincarnations. The vision is something only you can truly understand, since it left a lasting impression on you it has done it's job and now you have to look to your present life and see if anything needs to changed, or how you can help others to make up for actions in your previous life.

i hope this was of some help but you are doing the right thing by discussing it, I may not have the answer or anyone else but little bits and pieces from each of us, or something said by just one, will make it click eventually.

Hmmm, ask the little girls who they are.