The Search For God

When I recently started exploring the ATS site, I noticed on this forum a divided mentality on the concept of God. Of course, this is to be expected to some degree. However, I am not starting this thread to explore whether God is real or not real, I'd rather explore the idea as to WHY? What is the allure, the impulsive search that seems to be human instinct to believe there is a greater intelligence than us at work?

I suppose I should state that I'm what most would consider pagan or Wiccan, which is erroneous. I have no religious connotations attached to me. Sure I believe in a higher power. I even believe that dimensional entities exist. I believe that an unknowable, (in our state) creative force propelled the Universe, and subsequently us, into existence. I do not believe in deities as a traditional pagan does though. I don't glorify them. I study the various mythologies because I am searching for God. I have studied lots of different religions. I could take a picture and post my book case and all one would see are books on religion, philosophy, the occult and romance. I'm a sucker for historical romance.

The search for God is an eternal quest that everyone is participating in. Even science's ultimate design is to unravel the mysteries of the world so they might know the answers to everything. Which is what? So even they are in on the search, despite what personal beliefs and ideas they may hold. Even those who state that they do not believe in God, subconsciously search for it. Why? What do you think is the driving force behind humanities need to believe in God?

I'd like to end with a word to atheists and argumentative posters. I know you think God doesn't exist. I already know you wish to tell me how ignorant my mind is compared to yours. However, if you think you can contribute to the thread, by all means do so. I just ask for a small amount of decorum if you do. I'm an experience poster and debater. I do bite.

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
I'd like to end with a word to atheists and argumentative posters. I know you think God doesn't exist. I already know you wish to tell me how ignorant my mind is compared to yours.

nice of you to generalize every atheist on here. i thought your post was pretty well written and i was going to say i agreed with most of it. until you tossed out that bit of ignorance.

not every atheist as a huge ego. those that do, tend not to be real atheists, but trolls.

whats with all the anti-atheism on this site?

I'll second they guy above, and on topic, every one is joined in the search for "God" name it what you will...because at some point, we all wonder what the purpose of life is, and how we came to be.

Pretty simple really.

reply to post by XelNaga


If my statement doesn't apply to you then why do you feel slighted by it?

Of course not all atheists act as I've stated. However, some do. I was referring to them. As to generalized statements. So what. It is my ideas and thoughts. If you feel I am generalizing a group of people, why not put forth an idea that explores that idea? Instead, you posted an inflammatory statement. I confess, I don't understand. I guess my ignorance renders me incapable of understanding you.

I am married to an atheist. He hates the topic of religion, belief systems and spirituality. Probably because I'm so obsessed with it. They say opposites attract I suppose and since we've been together for 17 years.....

I don't have a problem with atheism. I'm not interested in our differences. I'm more interested in what makes us similar in our ideas and thoughts. There is a schism between the two camps. It would be nice to see that gap shorten not widen.

reply to post by Sinny


I agree that we are all in the search for the same thing. I also agree it is simple. Thanks for the read and the reply. This is my first thread I have started here. I am excited, we shall see if it takes off.

God exists alright.

But most of us will roast in hells entirely of our own making.

Is it really "God" we as a species are searching for? Or are we really just searching for, and trying to understand our origins. Were we created? Did we evolve? Or both?

I call myself an atheist. But it isn't because I don't believe there could have been a hand in our creation/evolution. Or that a being could exist that is beyond our comprehension. But rather, I reject the human notion and definition of God.

Just because a being is superior in power and intellect does not make that being worthy of worship.

reply to post by GlisteningSac


I don't really believe in hell - except for the one we make. Hell on earth seems to aptly describe many world events right now. However, we are said to have a consciousness. If this is true, and we retain our intelligence and sense of individuality when we die - perhaps our consciousness will perceive itself in hell because of their belief set. I'd rather go up, than down on the proverbial spiritual ladder!

However, I'm more of the mind that you only get one shot. Once you die your energy explodes outward like the universe and our energy get absorbed into the surrounding area.

I don't have any proof that this is what happens. It's simply an idea I'm toying around with currently. My ideas and thoughts are fluid, I'm always seeking to auto-correct myself.

I love listening to atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens etc because they make a lot of sense. I reckon religion is only man's attempt to make the unexplainable explainable which includes - unfortunately - some rather extremist superstitious nonsense popular around the time they were written i.e. the Bible.

We're not meant to know the nature of god IMO because it would make the whole human experience pointless.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


What a fantastic post! I gave you a star. I happen to agree with your view. I would hazard to guess that it was both. Creation and evolution. I also agree with your last statement. If there ever is contact by otherworldly beings, it's prudent to proceed cautiously.

Thanks for the response.

I have a hard time not beliveing in god/the whole/source/the one that is all since I can feel the other side on my crown chakra. When you feel it physicly it is kinda hard to ignore it. And all the 11 synchronicity and a forehead where the skin is always tingling can make you wonder also. When you have had experiance that have proven "something more" then you cannot disregard the thruth.

I am not sure what is is that is scratching my head gently when I go to bed. But it makes me happy and chi flowing thru your body is kinda nice. Maybe god have adopted me as a pet or something. I will in this post probably be seen as the "crazy one". That is ok. I rather be thought of as crazy and happy than normal and depressed.

Science also seem to go towards reality not being as real as we think.
www.youtube.com...

For those who wanna understand (if it is correct) more of how the brain/rewards system work in awakening people se. vimeo.com...

In the end science and religon will become the thruth of what "reality really is" when both science and religon(spirituality) stop being fundamentalistic and really go where the data points. It is all part of evolution and it is only a matter of time before it meets.

By the way I was close to an atheist with a questioning (maybe there is something more) before I awoke so from my point of view: Faith was not for me required to wake up. An opened and questioning mind seem to be required. And a very small ego helps.

reply to post by Internet Explorer

I reckon religion is only man's attempt to make the unexplainable explainable which includes - unfortunately - some rather extremist superstitious nonsense popular around the time they were written i.e. the Bible.

Ignore the religious aspect of the bible for now. There's actually alot of evidence to support the historical accuracy of the bible, that made even an atheist archeaologist submit to Christ, and i was agnostic once myself.

People who say the bible is just a story or fantasies, tend to ignore the scientific evidence which biblical archeaology provides. Here's a small taste, but there is much much more.



There are also nonbiblical referrences to the existence of Jesus the Christ. Even the Talmud referrences him except the jews say he was a sorcerer nailed to a tree for blasphemy (saying he was God) and the Tamud is as antichristian as you can get. There are over 70 nonbiblical accounts of men who didn't even believe in Jesus speaking about him just incase you, like some other people claim he was invented around 500 A.D.

nonbiblical evidence of the existence of Jesus

These are first and second century accounts, so you know that people were talking about the matter long after he ascended. Obviously what people saw and experienced with him kept them talking about it for centuries.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by CirqueDeTruth
When I recently started exploring the ATS site, I noticed on this forum a divided mentality on the concept of God. Of course, this is to be expected to some degree. However, I am not starting this thread to explore whether God is real or not real, I'd rather explore the idea as to WHY? What is the allure, the impulsive search that seems to be human instinct to believe there is a greater intelligence than us at work?

I suppose I should state that I'm what most would consider pagan or Wiccan, which is erroneous. I have no religious connotations attached to me. Sure I believe in a higher power. I even believe that dimensional entities exist. I believe that an unknowable, (in our state) creative force propelled the Universe, and subsequently us, into existence. I do not believe in deities as a traditional pagan does though. I don't glorify them. I study the various mythologies because I am searching for God. I have studied lots of different religions. I could take a picture and post my book case and all one would see are books on religion, philosophy, the occult and romance. I'm a sucker for historical romance.

The search for God is an eternal quest that everyone is participating in. Even science's ultimate design is to unravel the mysteries of the world so they might know the answers to everything. Which is what? So even they are in on the search, despite what personal beliefs and ideas they may hold. Even those who state that they do not believe in God, subconsciously search for it. Why? What do you think is the driving force behind humanities need to believe in God?

I'd like to end with a word to atheists and argumentative posters. I know you think God doesn't exist. I already know you wish to tell me how ignorant my mind is compared to yours. However, if you think you can contribute to the thread, by all means do so. I just ask for a small amount of decorum if you do. I'm an experience poster and debater. I do bite.

I loved your opening post Cirque. You've ask a question that's been asked by philosophers, writers and even Caesars' for milennium. It's a question as old as time I'm sure. Why believe in God? Perhaps because it is in our nature to seek answers to questions such as where we come from and where we are going. Perhaps because unless there is in fact a grand plan or some ultimate design from some deity beyond our human grasp then our existence becomes purposeless. Maybe we just can't help believing in something greater than ourselves. There are a multitude of possible answers to your query. I however believe it comes down to a personal choice based on a persons life experiences.

I personally believe as Gandhi believed, "I worship God as Truth only. I have not yet found Him, but I am seeking after Him." I worship God as Truth, I haven't found Him but I am seeking after Him.

I recently heard a statement by a gentleman speaker that was something like this ..Man says seeing is believing but God say believe obey and you will see ...I have come to realize that there is a profound difference in the ways of man and the ways of God .In the account of the fall it is said they they saw ....I guess that maybe the way they were looking was turned upside down ..just a thought . good post OP..peace

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth

The search for God is an eternal quest that everyone is participating in. Even science's ultimate design is to unravel the mysteries of the world so they might know the answers to everything. Which is what? So even they are in on the search, despite what personal beliefs and ideas they may hold. Even those who state that they do not believe in God, subconsciously search for it. Why? What do you think is the driving force behind humanities need to believe in God?

Hi there, and welcome to ATS. Your first two threads indicate you will be a very worthwhile contributor to the forums.

In answer to your question, I fully agree with you, and I have a couple of suggestions for you. If you are a reader (which you must be if you are studying those things, and based on your command of the written language), you will likely be very interested in the book that I am just now finishing up.
The Evolution of God by Robert Wright Copyright 2009 by Little Brown publishers. Just yesterday I finished the main text and am now starting the Appendix, which goes deeper into some of the more philosophical stuff (it suggests).

Here is an excerpt from one of the reviews (there is a tab with several reviews and links to the original articles).

God has mellowed. The God that most Americans worship occasionally gets upset about abortion and gay marriage, but he is a softy compared with the Yahweh of the Hebrew Bible. That was a warrior God, savagely tribal, deeply insecure about his status and willing to commit mass murder to show off his powers. But at least Yahweh had strong moral views, occasionally enlightened ones, about how the Israelites should behave.

His hunter-gatherer ancestors, by contrast, were doofus gods. Morally clueless, they were often yelled at by their people and tended toward quirky obsessions. One thunder god would get mad if people combed their hair during a storm or watched dogs mate.
.........
But God still has some growing up to do, as Wright makes clear in his careful discussion of contemporary religious hatred. As you would expect, he argues that much of the problem isn’t with the religious texts or teachings themselves, but with the social conditions — the “facts on the ground” — that shape the sort of God we choose to create.

“When people see themselves in zero-sum relationship with other people — see their fortunes as inversely correlated with the fortunes of other people, see the dynamic as win-lose — they tend to find a scriptural basis for intolerance or belligerence.” The recipe for salvation, then, is to arrange the world so that its people find themselves (and think of themselves as) interconnected: “When they see the relationship as non-zero-sum — see their fortunes as positively correlated, see the potential for a win-win outcome — they’re more likely to find the tolerant and understanding side of their scriptures.” Change the world, and you change the God.

He addresses the universal search for the Divine that is part of our makeup as human beings. Starting with hunter-gatherer societies, and proceeds right up through the post-9/11 era and today's critical-mass issues. Brilliant writing, witty, jammed with sources, and exquisitely accessible. I, too, am fascinated by theology, mythology, all that stuff, and most importantly "WHY?" are people like they are.

Looking forward to discussing things theological with you in the future!
Welcome to ATS
wildtimes

EDIT: The second suggestion is a classic on the psychology of religion and human nature:
William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature
Free to read online, was written in the late 19th century. Excellent overview of the topic of interest in your OP.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


Hi A Push For Enlightment - Thanks for the reply. I watched the first video, the second I don't have time for! I have kids I run after and pop in and out of here as the time allows. So I was able to take some time and watch the first video.

Quantum Science is very interesting to me. The idea that the Universe and everything in it is likened to a computer. A quantum computer.

I liken our existence to what we observe in the ocean. We are all in a fishbowl of some sort or another!! When we break everything down into waves of energy, I liken our existence being more like a web. Which is rearranged constantly.

You stated that "Science also seems to go towards reality not being as real as we think."
Could you expand on that idea?

reply to post by Klassified


You call yourself an Atheist but you're describing yourself as an Agnostic.

You should look at the differences between Atheism and Agnosticism.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe

I loved your opening post Cirque. You've ask a question that's been asked by philosophers, writers and even Caesars' for milennium. It's a question as old as time I'm sure. Why believe in God? Perhaps because it is in our nature to seek answers to questions such as where we come from and where we are going. Perhaps because unless there is in fact a grand plan or some ultimate design from some deity beyond our human grasp then our existence becomes purposeless. Maybe we just can't help believing in something greater than ourselves. There are a multitude of possible answers to your query. I however believe it comes down to a personal choice based on a persons life experiences.

I personally believe as Gandhi believed, "I worship God as Truth only. I have not yet found Him, but I am seeking after Him." I worship God as Truth, I haven't found Him but I am seeking after Him.

Hi I Want To Believe. I like your forum name. I agree. Experience has everything to do with why we believe. I also love to read Quotes and excerpts of our great thinkers and philosophers. One of my favorites in regarding the subject of beliefs in god:

"We are born believing. A man bears beliefs as a tree bears apples." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

reply to post by wildtimes


Thank you for the warm welcome Wildtimes. I will add your book to the long list of names of books I've collected!

Also thank you for posting useful information. I downloaded the book by William James to PDF. I will read it later when I have some more time. Hopefully it will lead to more ideas for a thread.