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Obama featured in - new - ad. He is throwing grandma over a cliff!

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posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 
If people don't have health insurance, then it is THEIR responsibility.

Not yours.
Not mine.
Not the governments.

The problem is that too many people now expect something for nothing. Somehow, healthcare became a right. Not something your purchase.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness does NOT include free mamograms or ER visits!

It's this entitlement mindset that we have to get rid of.

People have to start taking responsibility for themselves.


edit on 21-3-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 





The problem is that too many people now expect something for nothing. Somehow, healthcare became a right. Not something your purchase.


Actually, no...many of these people that go into the ER don't expect something for nothing. Many try to tough it out as long as possible, hoping whatever illness they have goes away. Then they wait too long and it gets worse, in some cases near fatal, and they go to the ER. Some people simply lose their jobs and have something horrible happen to them as well.

This could happen to most us.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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It looks Obama has launched a website to explain a few things.

Obama-Meter


and it seems the "pre existing" coverage is NOT universal.

some states have their own ?

PCIP

Illinois for example is not included.

The gray States on the map are not on the Federal plan.

I wonder what the differences are from State to State ?



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by beezzer
 





The problem is that too many people now expect something for nothing. Somehow, healthcare became a right. Not something your purchase.


Actually, no...many of these people that go into the ER don't expect something for nothing. Many try to tough it out as long as possible, hoping whatever illness they have goes away. Then they wait too long and it gets worse, in some cases near fatal, and they go to the ER. Some people simply lose their jobs and have something horrible happen to them as well.

This could happen to most us.


You're right.

It's called life and sometimes it sucks.

The problem comes when government/society starts providing a safety net for those who fall.

I'm not an ass. I'm not a cold-hearted bastard. But people need to start relying on themselves. They need to take responsibility for their actions, whether deliberate or accidental. There are no assurances in life. There are no do-overs, no resets.

Sometimes life sucks rocks.

People need to "man up" and start dealing with it.

Just my humble opinion, of course. (If you haven't guessed, you've hit a hot button of mine
)



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


I partially agree with your statement.

The government is not required to offer healthcare coverage and is not required under the constitution.

But I don't think there is a wide spread entitlement mentality. It's not that most people expect the government to provide HC, but it has come to the point where people are so broke and desperate that they have no where to turn to other than government.

Healthcare and insurance is extremely expensive and something as simple as staying alive has become a market commodity in which many people are priced out of the market!

For people with no means, or people of means caught off-guard by unforeseen circumstances, HC and insurance can be luxury that many of us cannot afford.

I myself make real good money, but my wife is a stay at home mother. So my income is limited to a point. I cannot afford insurance for myself because it takes all of my disposable income to provide for my wife and kids.

Is that the way it should be? Isn't it quite clear that this system is completely screwed and both sides of the political fight have no clue what they are doing and no desire to fix a system that benefits their cronies that donate to their campaigns?



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 





I'm not an ass. I'm not a cold-hearted bastard.


Don't know if this is a compliment to you or not...but I certainly think you are a better person than Neo.




Sometimes life sucks rocks. People need to "man up" and start dealing with it.


Are you stating we should deny those who can't afford or don't have health insurance...and in many cases just leave them to die?

Without some kind of universal plan, this is the only other option to get prices somewhat reasonable.
edit on 21-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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The State run pre existing plans vary from State to State.

it looks like it's expensive.

I wonder if these State planes were available BEFORE ObamaCare was passed ?


California

California

Monthly Premium: $428 for a 50 year old subscriber in San Francisco
Annual Deductible:
• Medical • $1,500 in-network / $3,000 out-of-network
• Brand Name Prescription Drugs • $500 in-network / $500 out-of network
Annual Out of Pocket Maximum: $2,500 in-network / no maximum out-of-network



Oregon

Oregon

Premium: $262 to $826 per month
Deductible: Plan 1: $500
Plan 2: $750
Out of Pocket Limit: Plan 1: $1,000 for medical, $4,050 for pharmacy
Plan 2: $3,000 for medical, $2,300 for pharmacy



If someone is sick and has no job,
how would they afford this ?



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by beezzer
 


I partially agree with your statement.

The government is not required to offer healthcare coverage and is not required under the constitution.

But I don't think there is a wide spread entitlement mentality. It's not that most people expect the government to provide HC, but it has come to the point where people are so broke and desperate that they have no where to turn to other than government.

Healthcare and insurance is extremely expensive and something as simple as staying alive has become a market commodity in which many people are priced out of the market!

For people with no means, or people of means caught off-guard by unforeseen circumstances, HC and insurance can be luxury that many of us cannot afford.

I myself make real good money, but my wife is a stay at home mother. So my income is limited to a point. I cannot afford insurance for myself because it takes all of my disposable income to provide for my wife and kids.

Is that the way it should be? Isn't it quite clear that this system is completely screwed and both sides of the political fight have no clue what they are doing and no desire to fix a system that benefits their cronies that donate to their campaigns?

Healthcare is expensive. T'is why my family has made allowences for it. It's wrong. It stinks on ice. But the government solution stinks worse.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 





The State run pre existing plans vary from State to State.


Some states, like Vermont, are trying to implement their own single payer systems....this way anyone who fills out a W2 form has some skin in the game.

That's why people want universal care....this way everyone pays into the system....and if you should fall on hard times...you can get the treatment you need. No one is going to hire someone who is sick or hurt.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Great video..

Truthful, I mean this is
exactly what Obama's plan is.

To get rid of the old people
because the government owns
your health and they decide who
lives and dies..

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by beezzer
 





I'm not an ass. I'm not a cold-hearted bastard.


Don't know if this is a compliment to you or not...but I certainly think you are a better person than Neo.




Sometimes life sucks rocks. People need to "man up" and start dealing with it.


Are you stating we should deny those who can't afford or don't have health insurance...and in many cases just leave them to die?

Without some kind of universal plan, this is the only other option to get prices somewhat reasonable.
edit on 21-3-2012 by David9176 because: (no reason given)


I prefaced that because I'm really not a bastard. I give (tithe) 10% to St. Judes. My fave charity. But some of what I say may come off as harsh.

Do we leave people to die?

That statement implies that people have deferred the responsibility of living to others. If people die because of their lack of coverage, is it their fault or societies?

I say it's their fault, or providence/fate/the god(s).

Again, we're talking about a safety net.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 





That statement implies that people have deferred the responsibility of living to others. If people die because of their lack of coverage, is it their fault or societies?


Both...sometimes alone...sometimes together.

If a man loses his job because his company shuts his doors, loses his insurance immediately, then has a sudden heart attack and is suddenly saddled with mega bills he cannot pay while he loses everything....is that his fault?

No....it's society's fault.....society's complete allegiance to the almighty dollar is at fault. Many things happen to us that are not in our control.

if something like this happened to you, would you deny yourself health care and just let yourself suffer and die?



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by xuenchen
 





The State run pre existing plans vary from State to State.


Some states, like Vermont, are trying to implement their own single payer systems....this way anyone who fills out a W2 form has some skin in the game.

That's why people want universal care....this way everyone pays into the system....and if you should fall on hard times...you can get the treatment you need. No one is going to hire someone who is sick or hurt.


I thought ObamaCare was all about universal coverage ?

Why now am I finding out these 100's of variables ?

I can see many people ending up on Medicaid from this policy.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 





I thought ObamaCare was all about universal coverage ? Why now am I finding out these 100's of variables ? I can see many people ending up on Medicaid from this policy.


Their are provisions in the bill that allow states to do implement their own systems.....like Vermont is.

I may be wrong...but Bernie Sanders added those provisions to the bill....



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by beezzer
 





That statement implies that people have deferred the responsibility of living to others. If people die because of their lack of coverage, is it their fault or societies?


Both...sometimes alone...sometimes together.

If a man loses his job because his company shuts his doors, loses his insurance immediately, then has a sudden heart attack and is suddenly saddled with mega bills he cannot pay while he loses everything....is that his fault?

No....it's society's fault.....society's complete allegiance to the almighty dollar is at fault. Many things happen to us that are not in our control.

if something like this happened to you, would you deny yourself health care and just let yourself suffer and die?


No. I want to live. Again, I would pay/make arrangements/talk to the billing office. I would take responsiblity for my life, my actions.

Before one of my many knee operations, I inspected th equipment in the OR. I asked, they said okay. The anesthesia machine was out of calibration. It was an Aestiva XL. From Datex-Ohmeda. They removed the machine and brouht in a new one. Funny enough, the gas-passer wasn't on the bill.

Taking responsibility.

Sometimes it pays.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

You're right.

It's called life and sometimes it sucks.

The problem comes when government/society starts providing a safety net for those who fall.

I'm not an ass. I'm not a cold-hearted bastard. But people need to start relying on themselves. They need to take responsibility for their actions, whether deliberate or accidental. There are no assurances in life. There are no do-overs, no resets.


I am a poor dude scratching a living by. I have tried to make ends meet, but I just can't seem to crawl out of this hole.
I have had some major problems for some time, can't stop coughing, I sold what little I had left to get a checkup finally when blood started coming out.
The bad news, I was found to have a fatal form of cancer if left unattended for much longer
The good news, there was an operation that could fix it. its cost was 10k.
I could not get a loan. I could not negotiate any sort of payment plan. Basically I was told since I don't have the cash, to go die.

I walked down the street, sort of ended up in some neighborhood. Totally distressed and a bit out of my mind of how I will just die on the streets with no care from anyone.
I looked at this nice house...big sign above the oak door saying "Beezer's Estate".

With nothing left to lose, I walked around back, murdered a rabbit man, and his family, and stole every freaking thing under the roof. It is now survival of the fittest, self preservaton kicking in. Sad that it lead to this..at least this beezer guy will get a nice funeral...and I get to have my life saving surgery.

My final thoughts when walking away with the loot was "Life sucks sometimes, but hopefully this guy knew there are no assurances in life, do or die".


Ya..I don't like your view of how the world should be...matter of fact, I fully reject it..mostly to protect you from a desperate person with nothing left to lose.
How far would you go to ensure your life? How far would you go to ensure your childs life?

It is in the interest of everyone to get everyone covered somehow.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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I for one am a disabled veit nam vet. ( I do not care if you believe me or not!) This omubber as well as our last pres. gave $750 billion to millionaire bankers and now takes $550 billion from Mediacre? First of all everything this obummer does is illegal because he wasnt born in America and therefroe cant be our pres. If you will think back to when he won that office he offered up one document saying it was the only proof of his birth only to produce another years later that proved to be a fake as well. Now this man born in Kenya dictates to us? Are you serious? He needs to be charged with treason and run out on a rail. But instead he will get over 100k and benifits for the rest of his Kenyan life even though he isn't American born while millions of true born Americans are homeless as well as jobless as well as haven taken medicare from them.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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Oh i see i am supposed to agree with Doctors who are making hundreds of thousands of dollars at the expense of everyone. Sorry,This apple is rotten at the core.
reply to post by redbarron626
 


I think doctors who save lives are worth every penny they get. They do a lot more for society than the athletes and celebrities that make millions of dollars in just one year. Maybe if we wouldn't be spending such an exorbitant amount of money on military bases overseas, wars and nation building, we would be able to offer reasonable and affordable health care for everyone. It's amazing how our government officials never complain about their poor healthcare benefits.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Sadly the politicians will get the best of care.


When the SCOTUS throws away ObamaCare we need to be ready with a replacement.

The solution will need to be able to fix MediCare.

It's going broke.



Well said and so correct Eurisko...
Please allow me, as I always have to mention in posts regarding the SS trust fund...
IF previous Presidents and congresses had not have stolen somewhere between $2.6 and $3.7 trillions dollars of the accumulating surplus in the fund, then the complete SS system would be live and well for many years to come.
We should be able to sue them for raping and pillaging the fund of monies contributed by taxpayers which was supposed to furnish basic health care and supplement the retirements of millions of American taxpayers.
Oh, but wait, this is similiar to what our government stood by and let our banks and financial institutions do... so I suppose in their minds this makes it ok...
Thanks for letting me play...



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by OldCurmudgeon
 





Please allow me, as I always have to mention in posts regarding the SS trust fund... IF previous Presidents and congresses had not have stolen somewhere between $2.6 and $3.7 trillions dollars of the accumulating surplus in the fund, then the complete SS system would be live and well for many years to come.


Perhaps if the SS tax cap was lifted, that sits just over 100,000 dollars right now....maybe they would quit doing that. It's the wealthy that write the laws. I think it's time they start paying up for the havoc they have caused.



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