A shallow materialistic society leads to atheism.

I have been interested in learning more about atheism lately. I recently found this article which does a great job explaining why it does not make sense. taken from a very respectable blogger

It is one of the major opponents of the Christian Church and Christian beliefs. It has always been diretly related to materialism. Summed up, the more materialistic a society is, the less spiritual it becomes. The less spiritual it becomes, the stronger atheism affects that society. Therefore, the more materialistic a society becomes, the more atheism strengthens over it.

Why Atheism Is Wrong
Atheism is defined as a lack of belief in a supernatural being, creator, or deity. Briefly, it is a lack of belief in God.

It is one of the major opponents of the Christian Church and Christian beliefs. It has always been diretly related to materialism. Summed up, the more materialistic a society is, the less spiritual it becomes. The less spiritual it becomes, the stronger atheism affects that society.
Therefore, the more materialistic a society becomes, the more atheism strengthens over it.

Atheism relies mostly on logic, analysis, and science. They do not believe in faith, nor the miracles of the Bible.

Atheism, though has major flaws. At first glance, it seems atheism has a strong, irrefutable, non-debatable position. Like so many things in this world, it looks good only on the outside, but actually is weak on the inside - a foundation built on sand.

Atheism has three major flaws:

Atheist Statement No. 1 - "Atheism declares it does not believe in faith, that science is the way to truth because it does not rely on faith unlike religion. Science does not rely on faith and therefore cannot be biased."

Christian answer: Even in science, we still need a certain degree of faith in scientists and researchers since we ourselves cannot possibly verify all their findings to prove that what they are saying is true.

Unless you can verify scientists' findings one by one for yourself, you will have to accept their "word" at face value. You will have to believe that what they're saying is true. You will have to have "faith" in their words.

Look. In the past, we've had "scientific errors" committed by scientists. Errors such as scientific facts that were declared as truth but were later found out to be false or in doubt.

Among numerous examples, one example is found in medical science. For many years, scientists/researchers have always declared that damage to the human spinal cord was permanent and irreversible. This was a scientific fact, established as the truth before.

However, only recently, this previous scientific fact was proven to be, well, untrue. Modern findings have proven that the human spinal cord does regenerate, albeit, in a very slow manner. A lot of people with damaged spinal cords have been able to walk, much against the declaration of their doctors that all hope was lost.

That science is not based on faith is totally false. Therefore, this refutes the first statement of atheism.

As St. Francis of Assisi wisely said "Faith is higher than reason. Reason is useless.... unless you believe."


Atheist Statement No. 2 - "Science is based only on purely objective facts, while religion is partially subjective and therefore cannot be purely objective. "

Christian answer: Science relies on objectivity, and needs to utilize a method called the "scientific method". The scientific method relies on observation, experimentation, data-gathering, etc.

Once science loses its objectivity, or becomes partially subjective, it loses its credibility as a discipline.

Therein lies the problem. The scientific method does provide purely objective data, BUT scientists still have to "interpret them. Since scientists are only human, the interpretation of the data becomes mixed with personal opinions and become "partially subjective". This cannot be avoided.

Scientists are human beings with different beliefs, religions, philosophies, and come from various countries and cultures throughout the globe.

Take for example the debate on the origin of the universe. This major debate has been going on for centuries, and has divided the scientific community into "creationist scientists" and "evolutionist scientists".

The creationist scientists believe that the universe has order, design, and was created by an intelligent, omnpiotent being, a god. God is the creator of the universe.

The evolutionist scientists believe otherwise. They state that the universe has no design, has no order and is random. They reject the idea of a god, a creator of our universe.

And it doesn't even matter who has more numbers on either side. The truth is never based on "majority wins".

Say for example, my friend and I hid a silver coin inside a box. Now, we make a survey and ask all people around the world if they believe a coin exists in the box or not.

Even if all people around the world said they don't believe a coin exists in the box, the truth is not affected by their numbers. My friend and I know the truth that a coin does exist because we hid it ourselves! So truth is not based on majority opinion.

Atheist statement number 2 is therefore false.


Atheist Statement No. 3) "Science is better than religion because it relies on an objective method - the scientific method. This method produces truth because it is based on objective data, experimentations, logic, etc. Religion does not use an objective method and is based on opinion, speculation, etc. It lacks "scientific proof", on "miracles" in the Holy Bible."

Christian answer: Science does rely on an objective method, but by what authority does the "scientific method" produce truth? By what authority does science possess when it says we must believe science because it utilizes the "scientific method"?

I mean you cannot state that science is an authority of truth simpy because it uses the scientific method. It's like saying "I therefore conclude that science produces truth because it uses the scientific method."

By what authority?

How will you prove using the scientific method does produce truth? Because it's "scientific"? Because science said so? Again, the question "By what authority does science have by proclaiming to be the truth than religion"?

The statement "The results of the scientific method should be followed" is unscientific because it is a value statement that does not get its authority from anywhere but itself.

"We should use the scientific method." Why should we? "It proves itself." How does it prove itself? "It uses the scientific method."

Atheist Statement: "The scientific method is true because it works and because it is axiomatic (self-evident)."

Christian answer: Sounds a lot like faith to me. Who decides what is axiomatic? does the scientific method decide it? That makes it circular if it does. If not, then it is not scientific itself.

I would have to do all the experiments to come to that conclusion. Other than that, I take it on faith that all of the scientists who did the experiments and reviewed them and tested them are not lying to me. That is my point.

You cannot use the "scientific method" as a reason to make science as an authority of truth, simply because the only way to prove science as the truth is to use the "scientific method"! The logic is circular.

And yes, the miracles in the Bible have been verified by both atheist (for objectivity) and theist (God-believing) scientists as true historical events. Events such as the Exodus from Egyptblog

I do not lead a shallow materialistic existence, quite the opposite and I am an Atheist. I am not going to get into a discussion though because it is futile. You will never understand the freedom I feel living without a 'minder', making notes of everything you do , just to send you to hell if you don't behave.
I will never go to hell, I am not watched, I am not judged [only by the consequences of my doings]. I am truly free and I thank my own self for that.

why not just be happy that you found christ and live according to the bible, why the endless need for you people to drag everyone into your faith??? personally i like buddism, they never try to convince you to join them. in that way, i become curious and research it instead of people always trying to rope me in.

and if you quote me a bible verse, i will personally come to your house and hit you over the head with it LOL

Where are the quoted sources that this 'blogger' used to make this assumption? I have done 3 quick searches and found......nothing. There are a few articles about Materialism as a Philosophy and Materialistic tendencies in Atheism as a direct result of non-belief, but these are all opinions and not researched facts.

Deny Ignorance.

reply to post by Patchman
Undoubtedly you did not get ripped enough on your last thread. The statements of your post are wrong on so many levels that I cannot even begin to formulate a reply. Good luck with this one. Ciao

reply to post by Patchman


I'm curious why you quoted this blogger, then a paragraph later you say the exact same thing, as if you wrote it?

And I get ya clearly; Christians are right, everyone else is wrong, blah blah. Threads like these make my imagination run. -Mostly speaking of the lemming scenario......

If the bible is truth, why does this god only want 144'000, while you scurry about trying to recruit a world of 7'000'000'000++? What are YOUR odds of getting a ticket? ..keep trying..because surely he has his 144k picked out by now. (or, maybe someone can sit down at the Vatican library and re-write the book to show 1.4 billion, you know, to coincide with today..)

Seriously, nothing is more annoying than a cult constantly telling us what we should and shouldn't do... and they go and do what they tell us not to. Props to your type for not doing door calls in my town, yet .. unlike jehova witnesses...

Look, i'm not trying to burst your little bubble, i'm just thinking freely. And I apologize ahead if this post is "offensive" to your free thinking.

/end

reply to post by Patchman


The United States is the most shallow and materialistic society in the history of this planet. It is also 9% Atheist. Sorry your premise doesn't hold water.

Wow materialism huh, I left the church because of hypocrisy. Thats a pretty big thing I have seen in the churchs that ive been to.

Let me give you something to think about. genesis chapter one verse 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Now I presume your a christian right. well its a monotheistic religion but In the first chapter either your god has a complex or theres more than one god. As said And god said let us make man in our image, catch those words us and our. If I remember correctly hes also a jealous god and you are to worship no other gods and please dont say thats idols its talking about because thats actually covered in and of itself separately.

Okay one more verse genesis chapter 3 verse 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

So now in the words of the apparently infallible Christian bible man became like god to know good and evil. Because man was so close and if he would have ate from the tree of life he would have been a god so eden was put under lock and key because your Christian god didnt want that for his loved people. All of its in the bible but most Christians dont acknowledge that. Im not bashing you I was southern babtist most of my youth and I was tired of the hypocrisy so Im agnostic now. Also just missed that verse 22 also has that us complex

Originally posted by Patchman
Unless you can verify scientists' findings one by one for yourself, you will have to accept their "word" at face value. You will have to believe that what they're saying is true. You will have to have "faith" in their words.

Yeah, pretty much, this is what atheists do. We research things and try to understand them, or we don't believe them. That's the way science works. And yes, I verify every truth myself based on evidence, research studies, etc. You don't have to believe everything a scientist says. Or a preacher for that matter.

Yeah we've had errors in the past. Remember Copernicus? The Church f#cked his life just for stating a simple fact of a heliocentric solar system. Faith doesn't get you anywhere. In fact, scientists don't have that much faith in their current findings because they keep researching and trying to seek understanding.

Originally posted by Patchman
Among numerous examples, one example is found in medical science. For many years, scientists/researchers have always declared that damage to the human spinal cord was permanent and irreversible. This was a scientific fact, established as the truth before.

Uh yeah, we keep making new discoveries, showing that scientists have little faith in current understanding of science without proper evidence, AS THEY SHOULD.

Originally posted by Patchman
Atheist Statement No. 2 - "Science is based only on purely objective facts, while religion is partially subjective and therefore cannot be purely objective. "

Data is collected by unbiased collection tools... It's interpreted by humans. No error in data, only in conclusion sometimes. And USUALLY, if a scientist reads a study and doesn't like the conclusion, they do their own tests and verify/disprove something. IT WORKS. IT HAS SINCE FRANCIS BACON. A SCIENTIST INVENTED THE COMPUTER YOU'RE ON BY OBJECTIVE REASONING AND SCIENTIFIC ADVANCEMENT!

Originally posted by Patchman
Scientists are human beings with different beliefs, religions, philosophies, and come from various countries and cultures throughout the globe.

Nope, 98% of scientists are atheists/agnostic.

Originally posted by Patchman
Take for example the debate on the origin of the universe. This major debate has been going on for centuries, and has divided the scientific community into "creationist scientists" and "evolutionist scientists".

Again, NO. This is not the debate going on in the scientific community. It's much more about the origin of the big bang, which is marginally provable, by the way.

Originally posted by Patchman
The evolutionist scientists believe otherwise. They state that the universe has no design, has no order and is random. They reject the idea of a god, a creator of our universe.

Nope, ACTUAL scientists believe that order is created by physical laws that are inherent in the universe. Some even believe it's by design. There are no "evolution," and "creation" scientists. There are scientists who believe FACTS and Christians that get their scientific beliefs from a book written in the bronze age.

You're last thread was more than enough, thank you.

You want to "learn about atheism", learn from atheists. Then if you have any claims or logic you don't agree with, address them(And let atheists offer answers to your questions).

You wish to learn about a group, seemingly intentionally, by only going to sources that are clearly trying to shine them in the worst possible light.

I assure you, it'd be just as easy to find websites that made all Christians look like the devil incarnate. To believe the claims of those sites, without any independent research, and not opening you're ears to any other voices on the issue, would be a complete failure towards critical thinking. You're doing exactly that, except with a different group.

Two words bro:

Biblical Archeaology.

Materialism huh?

Have you ever seen a cathedral?, a catholic church? Or all those giant "mega-churches"? Religious buildings are hands down the most grandiose structures on the planet.

Human history shows us that religious societies lead to genocide, persecution, and endless cycles of sectarian violence.

I don't consider myself atheist, agnostic, religious, or spiritual in any sense. I'm not anything, I decided a long time ago that I'm not going to play your silly games.

But the irony in your OP caused me physical pain.

This thread is closed for a staff review.

Please refrain from starting another thread along the same vein in a blatant effort to circumvent a thread closure.

Again.

Thank you.