The Origins of 2012

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posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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Introduction



With the sudden uptick in threads related to 2012 I thought now would be a good time to continue my series of posts designed to educate ATS about Mayan culture. Unlike previous threads like this I have made I will not be including citations. All of the sources used have been cited in previous posts of mine. So if you are interested in finding where this information came from feel free to check the links in my signature.

For this thread I have sought to find the origins for these 2012 claims. While I briefly covered this topic in another post I have some new views on it. I will be focusing exclusively on the Maya as, regardless of what an author may claim, all 2012 claims stem from the Long Count “ending.” There's a reason there were no claims regarding 2012 before 1984 when the GMT correlation was first published. My ultimate goal in this post is to show that these 2012 claims have no basis in Mayan culture and to hopefully correct some people's views on the Long Count.

The Long Count



Before we can start looking at the origins of 2012 we must first understand the Long Count. Now picture for a moment the Long Count in your head. You probably thought of something that looks like this:



The truth is that is not the Long Count. That is the Aztec Sun Stone. Unfortunately, thanks to many New Age authors that is what many people perceive the Long Count to look like. This is what an actual Long Count looks like:



Now this is clearly not a cyclical calendar. In fact what's depicted is not a calendar at all, but a single date. That seems to be one of the major misconceptions regarding the Long Count. The Maya didn't use the Long Count as one would use a regular calendar. Instead of counting down days before a specific event it was used more as a reference tool.

As I have mentioned in the past the calendars primarily used by the Maya were the haab, a 365-day calendar that marked the Earth's passage around the Sun, and the tzolkin, a 260-day calendar the marked ceremonial events. Together these formed the Calendar Round which was a 52-year cycle. However, just using this system the Maya had no way to refer to dates that fell outside this 52-year cycle. Thus, the Long Count was created. It's primary, and in fact only, purpose was to allow for reference to distant future and past dates. As a result there is no actual Long Count calendar that shows all the dates. Instead what we have are Long Count dates found on monuments and manuscripts. So since there is no Long Count calendar it is impossible for it to end or repeat. Not to mention that if it repeated it would defeat the entire purpose behind its conception.
This means that if we could find examples of Long Count dates that occur after 13.0.0.0.0 then it would be safe to say that the Long Count does not end or repeat at this point. It just so happens that we have many examples of Long Count dates that extend past 13.0.0.0.0. For example in Palenque there is an inscription that is dated using piktuns. A piktun is equivalent to 20 baktuns.

So, now that we know that the Long Count does not end or repeat on 13.0.0.0.0 we can now begin looking at the origin of these claims regarding 2012.

Dresden Codex



The first time someone associated the Long Count with a catastrophic event it was done using the Dresden Codex. The Dresden Codex primarily focused on astronomical data, although it also made mention of religious ceremonies. Then on the last page the reader is presented with this image:



What this clearly depicts is water falling from the sky. Many have taken this image to represent a prophecy that a flood will occur at the end of the Long Count. However, this cannot be the case. For one there is no Long Count date associated with this image so it is impossible to know if it refers to the future or the past. In fact it would be exceedingly strange if a Long Count date were incorporated with this page of the codex. The Dresden Codex has its origin with the Yucatec Maya. The Yucatec Maya had no tradition of using the Long Count. This means that is absolutely impossible for this final image from the Dresden Codex to be associated with the Long Count in any way.

Popol Vuh



Another popular claim is that the Popol Vuh is proof that the Maya believed something would occur on 13.0.0.0.0. The Popol Vuh is a post-Columbian collection of myths told by the K'iche Maya of Guatemala. Among its contents is the legend that the world has been remade multiple times before now and that it will be remade again. The claim is that the world gets remade every 13 baktun.

Now, unlike the Yucatec Maya, the K'iche Maya actually did have a tradition of using the Long Count. However, once again there are no Long Count dates were used in the Popol Vuh. This is because the Long Count had fallen out of use by the time the Spaniards arrived on American shores. So it is once again impossible for these myths to be in any way associated with the Long Count

This claim that worlds are cyclical also ignores the central thrust of the Popol Vuh. The Popol Vuh primarily describes the creation of Man. The gods wish to create a race of people that worship and venerate them. Each time Man is disobedient and as a result the gods must get rid of their creation and start over. With the fourth creation (us) the gods were finally satisfied with their creation. However, they did warn that if Man got out of line they would have no problem starting over again. The multiple creations had nothing to do with a time limit and instead had to do with the actions of the gods' creations. The message of this myth is obvious. Obey and venerate the gods.




posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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Tortuguero Monument 6



We now come to what is probably the most notorious monument in all of 2012 mythology. Unlike other sources for 2012 claims this one is actually from the Classic period and it possesses a Long Count date. And in fact this Long Count date is 13.0.0.0.0.



When this monument was first translated by Houston and Stuart they believed it to be a prophecy foretelling the return of Bolon Yokte. However, in recent years new translations have been made that shine light on what this monument was referring to. The most recent translation, done by Gronemeyer and MacLeod, show that the monument was not referring to the return of Bolon Yokte but of a religious ceremony dedicated to Bolon Yokte. Even Houston and Stuart have acceded that their translation was wrong and the Gronemeyer and MacLeod's is closer to the truth. Although it is worth mentioning that Houston no longer thinks that the monument makes reference to 13.0.0.0.0.

Conclusion



I think at this point it should be clear that the origin of these 2012 claims are not based in actual Mayan culture. In many cases they use sources that don't even relate to the Long Count. So what's left for these 2012 claims? Absolutely nothing. The Long Count does not end or repeat on 13.0.0.0.0. No flood is associated with that date. No remaking of the world is associated with that date. And no return of a god is associated with that date. The three artifacts I have outlined above have provided the origin to this 2012 nonsense and two of them don't even have anything to do with the Long Count. The third might not be related to 13.0.0.0.0 but even if it were it is not a prophecy of any kind.

So if the origins of 2012 mythology do not actually support the claims being made why continue to believe that something is going to happen? That's not to say nothing will happen in 2012. Something happens every year and every day. What I am saying is that any events that occur this year have nothing to do with a Mayan prophecy or returning gods. So stop trying to take every ancient culture and associating it with 2012. The connections do not exist. Live your life like you would every other year and stop waiting for some cosmic event to change the world. If you think the world's broken go out and try to fix it yourself. Be the change you want to see.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:34 AM
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Good work. Very good collection of information.

One question and not to be a smart ass. I just dont know, and have never heard or seen a translation.

What exactly does it say on the last page of the DC? Or is this text that has never been cracked yet?

tia



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by Shadowalker
 


As far as I know the actual text has not been translated. However, the codex does contain Long Count dates in other areas.So we know that if page 74 were referring to a future or past event it would have a Long Count date associated with it.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:55 AM
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Very interesting
So the long count contains cycles or observations of cycles yet is not a measurement of an observed cycle.
But acts as an ongoing tool that can be applied to cycles not yet perceived of which there are many, which even our modern day has not measured or considered.?
Yes The Aztec Calendar of Eternity is mistakingly taken as Mayan - I had a print of the Aztec Calender on my wall 38 years ago.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Yeah i kinda thought there would be something there for a translation. I had always bought into the catastrophic flood myth everyone pushed until i read through this morning and looked at it again.

After much thought i tried to really think about what the picture was trying to convey. It doesnt look anything like a catastrophic flood sequence now.

Now looking at it I see several things. The great snake has a story or timeline. Then looking at the two streams, at the top, I take this to mean normal rains and flood rains. Then I see plenty of water in the jars for use. Enough to spill out and waste. Then I see the massive stream from the snake or pipe compared to the others and can only draw one conclusion.

This describes the building of irrigation canals and piping. And shows to even those who cant read that the work that was done was much greater than anything one could expect from nature. Something that changed their lives with excess.

After hearing that does it seem viable?



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by Shadowalker
 


The thing about the Dresden Codex that most people don't realize is that many of the ceremonies contained within it were dedicated to the rain god Chaac. I feel like what is portrayed on this page refers back to the ceremonies. If I'm not mistaken Chaac even appears on the page. He's the figure pouring out the jug.

It's also worth pointing out that if we go with the Popol Vuh creation story it was the first creation that was destroyed by water. This was due to the fact that they were made of mud. It would make no sense for this creation to be wiped out with water because we are partly composed of water. The other part is maize.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 11:26 AM
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reply to post by artistpoet
 


Think of it like this. We have our own cyclical calendar. The Gregorian Calendar measures the Earth's passge around the Sun. However, if we did not have the concept of years then we would not be able to refer to events outside this cycle. The Long Count acts like our concept of years. It allowed the Maya to differentiate between Calendar Rounds. That's all it did.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Here is a documentary from the Mayan perspective(At least that's what is said). From what I remember they don't say anything about the end of the world but a new beginning. Difference? Up to you.

www.truththeory.org...

Good thread.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Xcalibur254
 


Yes I get you - thanks for your efforts in researching this.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:24 PM
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And so ATS once again shows that it is more interested in sensationalism than truth. When I made comments about this recently I was told that I should make the types of well-researched threads I would like to see on this site. Even though I've done so in the past with little avail I figured I'd try again. Well it looks like ATS simply doesn't care about the truth and would rather be entertained with CGI of some guy flying and Nibiru. I think this will be the last thread I make for a while as it simply isn't worth the time and effort it takes to do research and make a decent thread when nobody actually bothers to read it.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
And so ATS once again shows that it is more interested in sensationalism than truth. When I made comments about this recently I was told that I should make the types of well-researched threads I would like to see on this site. Even though I've done so in the past with little avail I figured I'd try again. Well it looks like ATS simply doesn't care about the truth and would rather be entertained with CGI of some guy flying and Nibiru. I think this will be the last thread I make for a while as it simply isn't worth the time and effort it takes to do research and make a decent thread when nobody actually bothers to read it.


I appreciate you efforts yes you may have got more attention if you wrote a thread entitled
2012 Doomsday is upon us
But then again you are being honest to yourself which counts for more



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 05:37 PM
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Thanks for another great thread.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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This post deserves to be one of the most starred and flagged on the boards, but you and I both know that isn't going to happen so don't let it get to you.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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Bump
Bump



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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X- thanks again for yet another great thread full of thorough research, rationale and fact.

The sorts of people who ignore these type of threads are only truely interested in story games and fantasy (this specimen of ATS'er can be observed in their natural habitat that is the 2012 or NWO forums).

Great stuff mate, don't get too disheartened by morons with their heads in dream land, with any luck they'll all disappear come 2013.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 10:44 PM
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Thanks for another fantastic read XCalibur, I do enjoy your posts, along with stereologists. It's nice to see some members on here fighting for quality and intellectual discussion still.

It's really quite sad that people have taken something as simple as a calendar and made bank on it. What I wonder about is these people who buy into this ideaology of a doomsday or enlightenment in 2012. Obviously, if we were all going to die or step up to another realm, I fail to see the value of money to those people, yet they're still collecting it.

People need to come to terms with it sooner or later that 2012 is just a date on our Gregorian Calendar, that people picked to mark as the end of days to spread fear, and make a quick buck.

I was rather sickened to learn that lately the anxiety, and stress, in correlation with suicides in young children, as young as 5 are increasing due to the fact they think they have nothing to live for since they're "going to die in 2012 anyway", or "nothing will be the same anyway." To me, this is a sick game that's gotten more than just twisted too far.

Keep fighting a good fight guys. And thanks for all you do.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by Shugo
 


I'd say for many members on here 2012 has definitely become a game. Take for instance the recent Nibiru thread. In it someone says something along the lines that Nibiru is coming and when it gets here those who didn't believe in it will have egg on their face. They don't focus on the horrific outcomes of something like that occurring. Instead they focus on the other side being wrong.

In the past I have likened ATS to an MMORPG, at least in its present state, and I think it is an at comparison. It doesn't seem like people actually believe what they claim anymore. Instead what they care about is using the site as a form of escapism where they get to play a role different than the one they play in real life. Unfortunately it will be the ones that actually believe these claims that will suffer and the fearmongers will feel no responsibility whatsoever.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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Check this book:

McKenna, Terence and Dennis (1975). The Invisible Landscape: Mind, Hallucinogens, and the I Ching (1st ed.). Seabury. ISBN 978-0-8164-9249-7.



In that book, published in 1975, Terence McKenna mentions 2012 as a very significative year in the "teleological attractor at the end of time".

McKenna based his prediction in the Chinese I-Ching, and not in the Mayan calendar.

In the 1975 edition, he mentions 2012, but not specifically the date of December 21.



posted on Mar, 26 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by GLontra
 


I'd like to know how he based his prediction on a system that was in no way, shape, or form indicitive of predictions. That I-Ching was nothing of the sort, and furthermore, Terrance fixed his dates. Aside of which the idea behind 2012 is considerably older than the 1970's.





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