The Suicide Bomber's Doctrine!

This thread is dedicated to those to whom I wish for what I wish for myself, whose pain is my pain.



The Occupiers in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Palestine etc. are stealing Muslim lands. Using the accusation, "Muslims are violent" as a reason to rape the nations and kill the people.

So, what should Muslims do? The Occupiers say we should stand down and allow them to take over the land, to prove Muslims are not violent. Is that honestly what 'diplomacy' is about?

You as an individual say Islam is violent, but the truth is the accusation comes from a more potent speaker and you are only repeating what you heard from them.

Islam is not a religion of candy and heaven, in every aspect the Muslim should challenge their soul. Its a lifelong journey of examining self in the effort to overcome the baser self and someday walk that higher path that can only be called truly human, instead of the path of the animal.

But when looking from the outside and not informed comprehensively, this appears as a religion of violence.

While all the Abrahamic religions have many violent things in common, such as hell with the suffering for sin, or the Prophets (as) who employed the punishment of rajm (stoning) or when the tribe of Lot (among others) became extinct in punishment for homosexuality. There are many things in common (call it violence or whatever) that provoke people from greed and sin.

But do you see? It is always Islam which is called the religion of violence. Because Muslims are the majority in the Middle East (heart land). In the middle east lies vast sources of energy which greedy superpowers desire, therefore they are always here with plans of colonialism in an effort to gain control over those vast resources.

So this is the doctrine I defend. A suicide bomber says;

When I see that my land is taken.

When I see that my mother and sister are molested.

When I see that my father has been killed.

When I see that my resources are being taken.

When I see uncertainty of being alive or killed tomorrow

When I see that occupiers are greedy and want it all.

I choose to kill as many occupiers as I can, even if I self destruct.


Is there anyone who could understand this if you have not walked this mile?

We will stay nonviolent till we get our chance, then we destroy them and find them in every hole. Those who were involved in killings will be slaughtered by the consequence of their own actions.

It's not going to continue like this, they're not going to occupy forever. Soon there will come an army to rescue the Palestinians and that will be the indication.

For now, the US is a nation which can not be destroyed unless Allah wills. You would need a miracle to destroy the US and Russia, China etc.

Right. You want to kill people who belong to the group that killed your people, never mind that those are other people whose relatives would kill people of your group because you killed their people.
Oh the joice of peace.
If i understand your logic correctly Copts in Egypt, Bahais in Iraq and lots of other oppressed minorities could start killing Muslims in those countries and you will completely justify their actions with a Doctrine!

reply to post by Jameela


Honestly in your shoes I would be pissed as well - if indeed your family and friends have been affected and this isn't about some nonsensical religion.

But I most certainly would not perpetuate the injustice by harming innocents.

reply to post by ImaMuslim

We will stay nonviolent till we get our chance, then we destroy them and find them in every hole. Those who were involved in killings will be slaughtered by the consequence of their own actions.

Another peacemaker. At least you do not hide that the real issue is destroying the Israel. All the other things are secondary.
Poor Palestinians. If not your approach ,they could have their own country in 1948. But your kind where crying about "destroying" and "slaughtering" and there was nothing. Then in 1967 the same logic ,then in 1973....
I am sure that you are ok with waiting to get your chance. Knife probably sharpened, too. But how about those opressed Palestinians, you are forcing them to wait without their state.
Like you care about something else then finding Jews under rocks according to some old text,though.

Originally posted by lives
reply to post by Jameela

 

Honestly in your shoes I would be pissed as well - if indeed your family and friends have been affected and this isn't about some nonsensical religion.

But I most certainly would not perpetuate the injustice by harming innocents.

edit on 21-3-2012 by lives because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-3-2012 by lives because: (no reason given)

This is our religion, and what our religion teaches:

www.youtube.com...#!

But this only goes so far, we are human, and the desperation people feel when their loved ones are killed in front of them, their women raped, their land no longer their own. When no longer is a man the master of his own destiny but living in slavery not knowing if today is the day he will die. He begins to self destruct.

And still it's wrong to kill another human being, no matter what!

2nd line..

Originally posted by Elexio
And still it's wrong to kill another human being, no matter what!

2nd line..

So why does the American say it is ok to kill us?

I'm not talking about america, i'm talking about a general fact. Don't point fingers at others when your wrong yourself, because it doesn't makes you better or them worse.

reply to post by Jameela


Do not harm innocent people!!

That's my only point.

Originally posted by lives
reply to post by Jameela

 

Do not harm innocent people!!

That's my only point.

Israel and America (one and the same) trained and funded the taliban in Afghanistan to topple the Afghani government, after that to stop the Afghan people from seeking help against them from the Soviet Union. Israeli kill and oppress Palestinian daily. Fundamentalist groups are armed, funded and trained throughout the middle east by the west to take down governments and replace them with ones America enjoys. It matters not to them that these governments will kill and oppress the people of the middle east. Innocent people are killed daily and our blood is on your hands.

Apathy is not an excuse, ignorance not an excuse, there are none who are innocent. In western countries these policies are supported by the people, in Israel these policies are supported by the people. The people want us dead, they want the benefit of our resources and land and do not care what took place to get it, so long as they enjoy its prosperity and comfort.

Who is innocent? You do not see our women or children, our people who were not even fighting as innocent or deserving of life, why should they consider your life?

I should've been red-flagged by now. But anyways, I believe that any goal can be accomplished using 9 different methods, 1 of which is suicide bombing (Chaotic/???)

Lawful-Good Neutral-Good Chaotic-Good

Lawful-Neutral Neutral Chaotic-Neutral

Lawful-Evil Neutral-Evil Chaotic-Evil

And exactly this thread and way of thinking is what keeps the circle go round and round.. It's been like this forever.. always pointing fingers at each other and fighting fire with fire.. *sigh* i get the feeling, the world will never break away from this infinite loop..

Originally posted by Elexio
And exactly this thread and way of thinking is what keeps the circle go round and round.. It's been like this forever.. always pointing fingers at each other and fighting fire with fire.. *sigh* i get the feeling, the world will never break away from this infinite loop..

Its a loop that can not mean everyone rolls over and dies for your benefit!

Suicide bombing is wrong, but what causes it? What is the situation that created the suicide bomber?

You cannot say it will only end if everyone in the world bows to your will, you have to be willing to let others live in their own freedom in their own land before this will ever stop!

reply to post by Jameela


Those so called "Freedom Fighters" you speak of have no regards from human lives, regardless of their origin.
Terrorists will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in name of their sinister agendas.

UN Watch Briefing - Latest from the United Nations

Gaza Activist Stabbed After Exposing Hamas Use of Human Shields - U.N. Must Condemn Latest Hamas Brutality GENEVA, Jan. 17 - The stabbing in Gaza of a Palestinian rights activist after he exposed Hamas' contempt for its own people by using them as human shields, and after he criticized the radical Islamic group for torture, abuse and trampling free speech, should be strongly condemned by the United Nations—both as an attack on the victim’s human rights, and on the idea of freedom of expression.

What is remarkable is that with all of the massive UN resources ostensibly dedicated to protecting Palestinians—the 16-member Division for Palestinian Rights, the 20-odd resolutions on Palestinians last year by the General Assembly, the Human Rights Council's special agenda item on Palestinians at every session, resolutions on Palestinians by UNESCO, the WHO and numerous other agencies, the full-time post of "Special Rapporteur on the Situation of Human Rights in Palestine" held by Richard Falk—still, with all that and more, the world body somehow managed to turn a blind eye to the massive violations of Palestinian rights described by Abu Rahma (click here for source):
• Although Abu Rahma considers Hamas, Islamic Jihad and other terrorist organizations to be “resistance groups,” he said they "show little or no care for people's life and well being.”
• “Military training sites function and are located in places very close to neighborhoods and/or schools, from where acts of resistance, including firing rockets, also occur.” As a result, “The population of these locations are inevitably vulnerable to Israeli attacks.”

• “Numerous people were injured from live fire coming from resistance groups training sites; including children and at least one man who lost his eye.”

• “There is a training site in the town of Beit Lahiya that threatens people every day, including a girl who was injured inside her school when an explosion occurred in this site on Sep. 20 2011.”

• “Explosions also occur frequently in densely-populated areas around Gaza, and have their victims, many of whom are children.”

• A man in the al-Nasser neighborhood in Gaza city, whose house is near a military training site, “complained to the resistance members many times. He explained the family’s fear for their life and house. But he was told the family could move out of the area, even if they had no resources to move. He died the way he feared most: tragically.”

• “The state of carelessness from the part of resistance is also causing continued victims of the misfiring of home-made rockets that fall on houses inside Gaza. Many of the victims are children and all of them are civilians who happen to be in their homes.”

• “There are more victims of shootings from, or explosions in, training sites. Many children are killed or maimed when explosive devices left in the streets or farms explode in their hands. And there is the young man who was shot in the legs for daring to publicly criticize a local resistance leader.”

Trying to advocate this sort of behavior is against all common sense, even if this so called "land stealing" is taking place.

reply to post by Jameela

Israel and America (one and the same) trained and funded the taliban in Afghanistan to topple the Afghani government, after that to stop the Afghan people from seeking help against them from the Soviet Union.

Afghani government was toppled by Russians who killed Amin. The one that requested Russian ground invasion - not the Afghani people. And Taliban enjoyed a substantial support from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Much much much more substantial support then from Israel.

Fundamentalist groups are armed, funded and trained throughout the middle east by the west to take down governments and replace them with ones America enjoys.

And yet those fundamentalist groups are the ones who use suicide bombers Doctrine that you just promoted in the OP. Hamas that send the most suicide bombers (funny thing - not a single relative of Hamas officials among them) into Israel is against Assad, supported what happened in Egypt and Lybia and ctr.

The people want us dead, they want the benefit of our resources and land and do not care what took place to get it, so long as they enjoy its prosperity and comfort.

Really? Are you sure that it is not your side who wants the people dead? The guy who calls himself Imam and agreed to your post is waiting for his chance to slaughter, yet even Israeli racists and bigots "only" want to move all Arabs somewhere else. And those are the tiny minority..
Majority of Israelis supported peace talks with Palestinians until your buddies suicide bombers started to explode in the buses, according to the Doctrine. Before Oslo accords there was no suicide bomber. Right after Israel allowed PLO to establish autonomy,let Arafat in,gave arms to PLO security forces - suicide bombers appeared from somewhere.
You know why? Because fundamentalist groups do not want Palestine, it is counter-productive to the waiting for chance of "destroying and slaughtering".

Israeli kill and oppress Palestinian daily

Really? Who was killed today? Yesterday? I hope you will not be sad when i tell you that you are very wrong on this one.

Originally posted by Jameela

Originally posted by Elexio
And exactly this thread and way of thinking is what keeps the circle go round and round.. It's been like this forever.. always pointing fingers at each other and fighting fire with fire.. *sigh* i get the feeling, the world will never break away from this infinite loop..

Its a loop that can not mean everyone rolls over and dies for your benefit!

Suicide bombing is wrong, but what causes it? What is the situation that created the suicide bomber?

You cannot say it will only end if everyone in the world bows to your will, you have to be willing to let others live in their own freedom in their own land before this will ever stop!

In that you are absolutely right! Because if we'd do that, it would mean we'd live in a police state or some form of dictatorship..

This reminds me of a marvin gaye song - it takes two! ;-)

reply to post by Jameela


I would give your thread more credence if the vast majority of suicide bombers in many nations were not poorly educated, for want of a better word peasants. By this i mean people who think they have nothing to lose and everything to gain for their families. If doctors and lawyers, etc, were also suicide bombers instead of just the poor, your sentiments would make more sense.

This is not an attack on Islam, rather simply the way i see it.

Afghani government was toppled by Russians who killed Amin. The one that requested Russian ground invasion - not the Afghani people. And Taliban enjoyed a substantial support from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Much much much more substantial support then from Israel.

You are forgetting Afghani never wanted Amin, see history of Afghanistan 101:

in 1978 military officers invited the Marxist party to form the Afghan government, under the leadership of Noor Mohammed Taraki, a university professor.The government began to bring in much-needed reforms, but with restraint and prudence. Labour unions were legalized, a minimum wage was established, a progressive income tax was introduced, men and women were given equal rights, and girls were encouraged to go to school. On September 1,1978, there was an abolition of all debts owed by farmers. A program was being developed for major land reform, and it was expected that all farm families (including landlords) would be given the equivalent of equal amounts of land.

Everywhere life seemed peaceful and there were few police and soldiers on the scene. This was a genuinely popular government and people looked forward to the future with great hope. Admittedly, the issue of women's rights and education for girls was controversial, and fundamentalist mullahs conducted campaigns against this. It was these people and their converts, along with landlords, who migrated to Pakistan, as refugees.

But there was a much more powerful opponent to the government -- that was the U.S., which objected to it because it was Marxist. The CIA, along with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, almost immediately began to provide military aid and training to the Muslim extremists.

Afghan Marxists have claimed that one of their countrymen, Hafizullah Amin, while on visits to the U.S., had been "converted" by the CIA and became their agent in the Taraki government. He worked his way to the top, and, as defense minister, in September, 1979, carried out a coup, took over the government, and had Taraki killed. All his loyal supporters were killed, jailed, or exiled. He then proceeded to undermine and discredit the Marxist government. He enacted draconian laws against the Muslim clergy, to purposefully further alienate them. Progressive reforms were halted and thousands of people were jailed.

Meanwhile, the CIA's trained and armed mujahedeen came in by the thousands to attack parts of the country. In a matter of three months, Amin had essentially destroyed the Marxist government and had planned to surrender to the mujahedeen, and become the president of a fundamentalist Islamic state. But at the end of December, 1979, Amin was overthrown by the remnants of Taraki supporters, and, under the leadership of Babrak Karmal (who had been in exile in the U.S.S.R.), they invited the U.S.S.R. to send in a contingent of troops to help ward off the well-armed mujahedeen invaders,many being foreign mercenaries.

The advent of Soviet troops on Afghan soil tragically set the stage for the eventual destruction of the country. President Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinske, saw this as a golden opportunity to fire up the zeal of the most reactionary Muslim fanatics -- to have them declare a jihad on the atheist infidels who defiled Afghan soil -- and to not only expel them but to pursue them and "liberate" the Muslim-majority areas of the U.S.S.R. And for the next ten years, with an expenditure of about 40 billion dollars from the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, and with the recruitment of 30,000 non- Afghan Muslims into the jihad (including Osama bin Laden), this army of religious zealots laid waste to the land and people of Afghanistan.

And yet those fundamentalist groups are the ones who use suicide bombers Doctrine that you just promoted in the OP. Hamas that send the most suicide bombers (funny thing - not a single relative of Hamas officials among them) into Israel is against Assad, supported what happened in Egypt and Lybia and ctr.

The 'doctrine' in my OP was not supported only explained in the OP. That was a misconception on your part. I do not have to agree with Hamas to attempt to understand them and their actions. See, my religion teaches me to stand against oppression on the basis that it is wrong. I do not have to have the same politics or religion to stand with a people who are oppressed.

Really? Are you sure that it is not your side who wants the people dead? The guy who calls himself Imam and agreed to your post is waiting for his chance to slaughter, yet even Israeli racists and bigots "only" want to move all Arabs somewhere else. And those are the tiny minority.. Majority of Israelis supported p

The person you are quoting name is "I'm a Muslim", not Imam anything. Again, what he said was not religion based but based on a spirit of self defense against people who have been oppressing the Muslims for generations. If it was you, if it had been your country, what would you do?

The Americans had one attack on their soil and have been killing for 11 years in retaliation

Robert Pape, the author of "Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism." has said the very first suicide attacks are the Jewish zealots in Zakari(ph) in the first century AD. The Jewish zealots sought to foment a rebellion against Roman occupation by often walking up to a Roman soldier in a square and pulling out a knife and killing the soldier, often cutting his throat, knowing that there were other Roman soldiers standing right by that would immediately execute or kill the zealot.

The next most famous group in history to use suicide attacks were the Ismaili assassins in the 11th and 12th century. They would attack a sultan and leave a message, which would say, `There will be further attacks unless you leave our community alone.' This was where we get the word `assassin' from because of their propensity to assassinate enemy leaders with a suicide attack.

www.npr.org...

Suicide bombing and terrorism (as Zionist committed the first terrorist attack in history) is simply an action that was copied by others due to its apparent effectiveness if you are the weaker in getting a "leave us alone" message across. That is the message, leave us alone. Quit raping us, killing us, stealing our land and resources, and attempting to enslave us.

For the Palestinian its everyday, you should learn more about the situation for the arab in Palestine

www.youtube.com...