Why do so many people have an issue with the TSA?

The OP is an example of conditioning. We wouldn't have gotten to this place so quickly without some sort of great fear catalyst, like 9/11. They new we would need a New Pearl Harbor and they were right. The younger generation will be more and more accepting. They have already been conditioned to give up the idea of privacy thru things like Facebook. I just hope we're headed more toward Brave New World than 1984.

See, I read the part:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

and figure it's a reasonable search, and thus the rest need not apply.

But...that's why I'm not a lawyer!

reply to post by FoxMulder91


They aren't making people safe. All their efforts would not have stopped 9/11. The box cutters were snuck onto the plane by the ground crew.

They were ordered to stand aside so the underwear bomber could get on the flight, by some smartly-dressed Americans in suits.

They have let literally hundreds of firearms and explosives slip by them.

Their only purpose is to get the public used to submitting to unreasonable search and seizure by authority figures. They are totally ineffective at their jobs, and several have been busted running drug rings, theft rings, and even cornering and raping passengers using their authority.

Why do so many people have an issue with the TSA?

Simple: It's a metaphor to a perceived decline of rights/individual liberties.

I have an issue with the TSA because flight security should fall under the purview of the airline
The Federal Government is not authorized to conduct unwarranted searches. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

The US Constitution MANDATES against unreasonable searches, AND defines the parameters
of legal searches...

THE FOURTH AMENDMENT

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Therefore the TSA is conducting unawful searches.........IT IS AGAINST THE LAW

Well, not so fast there. We were literally just discussing this.

As I read it, we are protected against UNREASONABLE searches.

TSA searches have been ruled to be REASONABLE.

Originally posted by camus154
Well, not so fast there. We were literally just discussing this.

As I read it, we are protected against UNREASONABLE searches.

TSA searches have been ruled to be REASONABLE.

In which court cases? In my understanding any action against the TSA has been settled out of court, or the court has thrown out the case, or issued summary judgement. I don't think there is one opinion out there in good standing affirming that the TSA does not violate the fourth amendment.

Here you go:

Case

I personally don't think the government should be contracted to do any security screening for private enterprise. Doesn't really make sense. If airlines want security, they should hire a private firm, instead of a part of the Department of Homeland Security, which we pay for. And I know that's how this was done before. My point exactly.

Originally posted by FoxMulder91
First off, im Canadian, so perhaps I have a different mindset on the issue.

I personally like feeling safe when im on a plane, I like everyone being checked to make sure they dont have anything illegal on them.

I dont care if the person is young/old/has medical issues, etc. Everyone should be checked equally.

I dont see why people are attacking the TSA for making sure people are safe on their plane rides.

I see people doing their jobs to make sure innocent lives are not in danger.

Cheers

First off, I'm American, so I have a first hand knowledge of the issue. Actually I have the first, second, and third screeners hands as well. And the hands of a supervisory agent as well. All those hands were over my body, making sure I'm not a terrorist, as well as the legion of children, elderly, those in wheelchairs, combinations of the aforementioned groups.

I don't care if anyone has anything "illegal" on them. First off there should be a difference noted between laws and statutes, but regardless the TSA now is enforcing all these statutes. Are drugs on a plane going to take it down? Obviously not, the TSA has mission creep built in.

I don't care if people are old, young, whatever. They still shouldn't be subjected to a federal police force inside private airports with private companies. It would be a different issue if individual airlines hired personal security for those planes. However a one size fits all federal agency starts out with a problem, since an any size federal agency is the wrong size, and it has no place in our airports. Additionally there are plenty of ways to just walk onto tarmacks, get into airplanes, and cause all sorts of havoc if we really wanted to. Where's the TSA on all the private airfields...well I guess in time.


People are attacking the T.S.A. because they are not making anyone safer. They haven't caught any terrorists. They haven't made anyone any safer.

Here is a random list of things more likely to kill you than terrorists, can the TSA come protect me from those too? richardjacksonterrorismblog.wordpress.com...

I, and tons of other Americans, do NOT want the TSA protecting us from anything.

Originally posted by FoxMulder91
reply to post by kyred

 

So walk throught the body scanner, if you feel strangers are going to "fondle you"

So I assume you are fine with people walking onto planes without being checked then?

Cheers

Straw man argument. People were checked before TSA came into action, no one wants to board a plane that has not been checked. The new scanners are very bad for your health, and a lot of pat downs were abuses to people's private life. When you realize the real terrorists are those who control your own country, and that THEY aren't getting the pat downs...how fair is that?

How safe would you feel if I told you I could bring a blade in your plane? These scanners/pat downs are supposed to be more efficient, yet they seem to have more weaknesses. What you are witnessing is a police state take over, there have been close to none major terrorist attacks in US soils for years. 9/11 wasn't planned by amateur Taliban terrorists, those who planned this false flag are happily laughing at us, the people, because we're once again paying for THEIR crimes.

Tell me, when was the last time a noteworthy terrorist attack happened in the US? You have more chance to die while masturbating than from terrorists...Do these extreme measure make you feel safe? If you do, that's because you're buying the propaganda.

Though as a Canadian myself, I can understand your questioning as we don't hear from TSA here. If you do a quick research, you will see why a massive number of people are opposed to it. Too many scandals, to many abuses, and unjustified extreme measures.

I'm glad I live in Canada but Harper scares the # out of me. He's a US whore.

EDIT: And don't forget, TSA now has checkpoints on the highway, and some buses trajectory will force you to pass through these. When's the last time a terrorist exploded a bus in the US? How about that?

Originally posted by Gab1159
Straw man argument. People were checked before TSA came into action, no one wants to board a plane that has not been checked. The new scanners are very bad for your health, and a lot of pat downs were abuses to people's private life. When you realize the real terrorists are those who control your own country, and that THEY aren't getting the pat downs...how fair is that?

Please support the statement that these scanners are bad for your health.
Please support where pat downs are "abuses to [one's] private life".

What you are witnessing is a police state take over, there have been close to none major terrorist attacks in US soils for years.

This is fear mongering of the worst kind. A thread-bare slippery slope argument. I live in the US, and I can happily assure you that I do not live in a "police state" because the airport 30 minutes away pats people down. That's simply not true.

I'll tell you why it's a problem.
1. 3 year old boys in a wheelchair doesn't fit the profile, not at all, no way, no how.
2. Bigger reason, it's a very slippery slope. OK to board the airplanes, most folks understand, we will be safe. Then a train gets blown up. Then a bus. Now you got to go through the same search for those. Then someone suicide bombs a place in a city. Now we have random checkpoints at city limits that include searching large cars, trucks, etc. Then someone blows up a house in an influential neighborhood. Now that gives way to shaky suspicions lead to random home searches. And so on and so on. No more constitution. No more liberty.
3. Reason 2 gives way to state line checkpoints, check in with big brother government to travel, and so on.

You think I'm crazy? Paranoid? Not. People in mass that lay down and take it are the people that hand over the 99.5% to the 0.5%. And of course paranoia is been called perfect awareness.

Originally posted by Pilot
Watching children getting patted down by strangers makes me sick. I witnessed it twice last year. It's grotesque. If you are ok with your child having strangers sticking their fingers in his/her pockets, I wonder about you. Why do you think that is acceptable? or necessary? or constitutional? really?

As Defcon 5 put it (earlier on in the thread) it is NOT your right to fly. Flying is considered a privilege... why? Because there are 6 other ways of travel and if you don't like TSA then take a friggin' bus. By buying a ticket you have accepted the terms and agreement of the FAA regulations. How is this hard to understand? That is the Burger King mentality I'm talking about.

As far as the little kids being patted down that is not grotesque.. it's a safety measure. It is plausible that kids could be transporters for whatever hidden feelings their parents carry towards Americans. IMO you need to wake up and stop living in a world where it's cookies and rainbows everyday it is an imperfect world. Terror factions that will do just about anything to blow up an entire plane including hide pieces on children.

Because I have to submit to very invasive procedures. It gives the illusion of safety at the price of dignity and freedom. And, frankly, the argument that you willingly give it up is illogical. The TSA is a federal agency that has forced itself into private businesses, so talking about it like it's some sort of thing that the airlines want is ignorant.

And even if it was, so what? Sexual assaulting people is an offense against the law, and therefore businesses making it mandatory that you submit to such a thing to take part in such a necessary mode of transportation is illegal. And whether you're being scanned or patted down, no person with a reasonable mind can argue against it being sexual assault, particularly when done to children.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Because I have to submit to very invasive procedures. It gives the illusion of safety at the price of dignity and freedom.

No you don't. Take a bus if it's so invasive for you. Take Amtrak if you're all "grr! see my indignant face!" about it.

And even if it was, so what? Sexual assaulting people is an offense against the law, and therefore businesses making it mandatory that you submit to such a thing to take part in such a necessary mode of transportation is illegal.

No, it's not. I've already provided a link from a federal circuit court case that says it's not illegal. So sorry, you are flat out wrong.

I've been patted down. My genitalia was not touched. Believe it or not, these TSA agents probably aren't getting off on your soft parts.

Ask Jesse Ventura

Originally posted by camus154

Originally posted by Gab1159
Straw man argument. People were checked before TSA came into action, no one wants to board a plane that has not been checked. The new scanners are very bad for your health, and a lot of pat downs were abuses to people's private life. When you realize the real terrorists are those who control your own country, and that THEY aren't getting the pat downs...how fair is that?

Please support the statement that these scanners are bad for your health.
Please support where pat downs are "abuses to [one's] private life".

What you are witnessing is a police state take over, there have been close to none major terrorist attacks in US soils for years.

This is fear mongering of the worst kind. A thread-bare slippery slope argument. I live in the US, and I can happily assure you that I do not live in a "police state" because the airport 30 minutes away pats people down. That's simply not true.

The debate on TSA is hold. Tons of evidence have been provided to confirm my claim that these scanners are worse than the old scanners. There are scientific studies on the matter and it's hard to deny. These scanners concentrate the rays on your skin instead of your whole body, so your skin takes all the carcinogen beam. I won't feed you these evidences because they are very easy to find. A quick 5 second Google search will give you all the evidence you need.

In the same order of idea, plenty of stories involving abuses have surfaced. Not only that, but a quadruple pat down after having to pass through their scanner is what I call an abusive search. Once again, plenty of these stories are to be easily found on the web. Now tell me, do your country really need checkpoints on highways? Do you really need to be searched to travel in certain buses? Is all this justified? No. Maybe you can convince me it is legit and justified, I'm open to debate on the subject, but I have yet to find something that makes me want to support this tyrannical and unjustified extreme measure of control. Would you willingly trade liberty for safety? How sad it would be, as the terrorist threat is almost non-existent.

I didn't actually think I needed to post these now common knowledge facts, I can't be held responsible for your own lack of research. Maybe you can reread my other post, because you did ignore most of its critical points. Instead, like a lot of people here, you did focus on the weak points: the fact I did not provided links. If you really are a truth seeker you would have done these research by now.

And no...this is not fear-mongering. I myself am against any type of fear-mongering, but there's a difference between this and the cold truth. The fact is that your country is now living in a police state. NDAA, Patriot Act, National Defense Resources Preparedness, the billions invested in your pathetic military industrial complex, the police now having contracts with the Army (remember, they were provided high power weaponry to shut down a protest...OWS), your pathetic judiciary system, your pathetic policing of the world, drones/UAV's flying over your own country, and now TSA...No, sorry, the truth is that your country is now a police state. I'm not trying to put out fear here, I'm a fighter for truth, love and freedom. Fear-mongering is not the answer, and not the message of this post. If you see some, that's because you can't accept the truth.

So go on, if you really want to learn the truth you will do these research by yourself. I could have posted these links and it would have taken less time to write this post. The thing is that I'm trying to prove a point here, and it's not by posting links you have probably already seen and decided to ignore that my goal will be reached. Are you that lazy that you won't bother googling these critical issues occuring right now in your "Land of the free"? These are important things that you aren't paying attention to...

reply to post by Gab1159


You know, I was actually going to pay some attention to your reply until it unraveled into the usual mud slide I was hoping it would not become.

I'm sorry, but while you maintain you're not a fear-mongerer, I see that you go out of your way to slam just about every facet of the American system in the loosest (and of course, most unsupported...but supporting your argument is apparently MY job) of terms. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the bounty system fiasco of the NFL.

And it's funny...here I am, an American, going about my fairly typical American existence, and I'm not seeing it. Sorry. It may look great for an ATS thesis. It may make for great liner notes for a Rage Against the Machine album. But I'm just not seeing not.

Not in any practical, REAL way.

See, it's one thing to be an armchair freedom fighter who cherry-picks what one reads online or in the paper. It's another thing to actually experience it at a very basic level.

So you know what? If this is a police state? Meh, so what. I'm ok with that And in the meantime, people who really HAVE lived in REAL police states, all the refugees who are fleeing genocide and real oppression, they'd probably come here and look at you like you're nuts.

Originally posted by mugger
It's called the Constitution

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.

The Fourth Amendment has been held to mean that generally a warrant must be judicially sanctioned for a search or an arrest. In order for such a warrant to be considered reasonable, it must be supported by probable cause and be limited in scope according to specific information supplied by a person (usually a law enforcement officer) who has sworn by it and is therefore accountable to the issuing court

Wiki

There is limited search abilities by police, if they witness suspicious activity. The TSA must assume everyone is suspicious.

Thank you, you beat me to the punch line. However, Canadians do not have a bill of rights that was fostered by their own founding fathers-governemnt, there's was fostered in Britain, and amended in Canada, thus, it's no big deal, when you did not have a firm, reliable, and unconditional doctrine set aside for its peoples, such as the constitution, that has every Americans back.

Your right op, no big deal, when you have never had the right