So who the heck ever said "Pull it" was slang for controlled demolitions?

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
If you're going to time the collapse of WTC 7 do it with the tape that shows the roof penthouse collapsing a second before the outer shell started coming down. That building came down from the inside first.

Actually that is the first classic sign of an implosion demolition.

No Mate,

The first classic sign of an implosion is a series of LOUD explosions heard from far away. The collapsing starts AFTER the explosions.

Originally posted by ReconX

Originally posted by Six Sigma


Okay truthers.. please answer these questions:

1. Who was he talking to?
2. If it was in fact the FDNY, how does the fire department CD a skyscraper?
3. When they made the decision to pull (and your taking Larry's word on this) How can you CD a building burning out of control?
4. NOW...If these bombs were pre-planted, how did the perps know that WTC 7 was going to be damaged enough to start the fires that would give them an excuse to "pull"?

At least you admitted that you have no answers. Anyone else?


Are you for real?
"Truthers" don't get sucked into this pathetic #!

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Because when the north tower was hit an order was given to evacuate WTC 7, so it was almost entirely evacuated by the time the north tower collapsed, and completely evacuated by the time WTC 7 building collapsed seven hours later.

So the fire fighters Larry was talking about evacuated the building seven hours before it collapsed?

"And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

So seven hours between what you claim, and 'we watched the building collapse'? From what he's says it sounds like the building collapsed directly after making the decision to 'pull it'. Normally you would think someone wouldn't even mention the collapse in the same sentence if it happened seven hours later, and would not be a part of the act of 'pulling' the fire crews out. So mentioning the building, and not the fire fighters, would be out of context if he was talking about fire fighters.

Originally posted by Six Sigma

No Mate,

The first classic sign of an implosion is a series of LOUD explosions heard from far away. The collapsing starts AFTER the explosions.

Says you. Where is the evidence that no explosives were heard?

But regardless it's a weak argument that is irrelevant. You should really try to explain how the building landed in it's footprint from a natural collapse. But of course you'll just deny that fact. So perhaps if there wasn't any sound of explosives, then another method must have been used. To say it collapsed from fire just because you can't here booms is ridiculous.

I personally have no idea what was used, and don't have to know, to know it couldn't collapse like that from fire and asymmetrical damage.

If a guy has a cut on his arm I don't need to know what did it to know it wasn't done by the socks he was wearing.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by ReconX

Originally posted by Six Sigma


Okay truthers.. please answer these questions:

1. Who was he talking to?
2. If it was in fact the FDNY, how does the fire department CD a skyscraper?
3. When they made the decision to pull (and your taking Larry's word on this) How can you CD a building burning out of control?
4. NOW...If these bombs were pre-planted, how did the perps know that WTC 7 was going to be damaged enough to start the fires that would give them an excuse to "pull"?

Are you for real?
"Truthers" don't get sucked into this pathetic #!

So you can't answer the questions ? If that is the case you would have been better off not to get involved rather than appear to be dodging them.

I am particularly interested in an answer to number 4. WTC 7 is often described by truthers as a "smoking gun" and perhaps it is in a way but a way totally different from what they think. They often say " it wasn't hit by a plane " and that is quite right so how was a cd of WTC 7 to be covered and disguised as the alleged cd's of the Towers were covered and disguised by having planes flown into them. It was only by chance that WTC 7 was damaged by falling debris from the North Tower and fires were started. If that chance happening hadn't occured what was the original plan. Just to blow up WTC 7 willy nilly in broad daylight ? How can anyone believe that ?

edit on 24-3-2012 by Alfie1 because: (no reason given)

No, I will not get into this game because it is pointless!
It's a total waste of time!

All I will say is, IF you have studied the events of before, during, and after, September 11th 2001, and by that i mean you have researched all the information you can and not just what the mass media write, you can only come to one conclusion.
That conclusion is, there exists a very wicked shadow government that has hijacked the United States of America.

The founding fathers warned Americans about a threat from within. Now will the U.S.A awaken before they finally take away the Constitution, and your rights to bare arms, or will you end up like Nazi Germany?

“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

Originally posted by ReconX
That conclusion is, there exists a very wicked shadow government that has hijacked the United States of America.

And that shadow government is the oil industry.

It's why we had 911 and why we are in the Middle East. Not to take their oil but to keep it in the ground, in order to maintain high prices, and control the Middle East economy.

Originally posted by ANOK
So the fire fighters Larry was talking about evacuated the building seven hours before it collapsed?

"And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

So seven hours between what you claim, and 'we watched the building collapse'? From what he's says it sounds like the building collapsed directly after making the decision to 'pull it'. Normally you would think someone wouldn't even mention the collapse in the same sentence if it happened seven hours later, and would not be a part of the act of 'pulling' the fire crews out. So mentioning the building, and not the fire fighters, would be out of context if he was talking about fire fighters.

If you read the eyewitness testimonies from the firefighters, the decision to pull was made around 3-4 hours before the collapse. They tried to save the building for 3-4 hours before giving up. That's why they called Larry in the first place. They wanted to know if it was worth it to continue attempting to save the building. He said no, pull it. That's what they did, they pulled the operation and evacuated the firefighters from the area until the building came down.

reply to post by ANOK



If "pull" means implode then do you agree that the only possible inference from the conversation is that FDNY did it ?

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by ANOK

 

If "pull" means implode then do you agree that the only possible inference from the conversation is that FDNY did it ?

Forget the terminology and watch this.

Originally posted by ANOK


Says you.

Says me? No, mate says ALL controlled demolitions. Unless for the first time in history, 3 buildings were demolished using silent bombs. Oh wait... you don't know what was used. It must have been a sekrit gubbamint bomb!

Where is the evidence that no explosives were heard?

I don't find it necessary to post the collapses of the towers. I am quite certain you have seen and heard the ones up close. If you are having a hard time finding the one for WTC...there is a news reporter interviewing a woman with a baby. The building starts collapsing behind them...and they had no idea.

Originally posted by ReconX

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by ANOK

 

If "pull" means implode then do you agree that the only possible inference from the conversation is that FDNY did it ?

Forget the terminology and watch this.

I thought you weren't going to " get into this game " or was that just when you couldn't answer the questions.

I note the executive producer of your clip was Richard Gage i.e. this man :-

www.youtube.com...

So, no I am not very impressed.

reply to post by Alfie1


Did you watch the video?

reply to post by Alfie1


By the way, I didn't answer you questions because of all the questions regarding 911 they really were poor!

Originally posted by ReconX
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Did you watch the video?

I've seen it before. It has Richard Gage lying about WTC 7 falling in under 7 seconds when it was actually about twice that.

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by ANOK


Says you.

Oh wait... you don't know what was used. It must have been a sekrit gubbamint bomb!

DUH Dude are you Nipon suffering the effects of Hirosima or Nagasaki??

Dem gobments done ben makin and DEPLOyING big sekrit
crackers fo ova 1/2 hundred years.

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Because the FF were moved back before the collapse...

After WTC 7 was hit by debris (10:30AM) the FDNY made an attempt to go intio WTC 7, both to search the
building and try to control the fires breaking out . This happened about 11 AM

Capt Chris Boyle

So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good. But they had a hose line operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too

Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see

The collapse of the towers had cut the water mains to the building - FF found there was no water in the
standpipes to fight the fires, that the water supply to sprinklers was cutoff, allowing fires to spread

Also reports of the extent of the damage reached the FDNY incident commanders who made decision to
abandon WTC 7 as being too dangerous this was shortly after noon (12PM)

We made searches. We attempted to put some of the fire out, but we had a pressure problem. I forget the name of the Deputy. Some Deputy arrived at the scene and thought that the building was too dangerous to continue with operations, so we evacuated number 7 World Trade Center. –Captain Anthony Varriale

So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandeis came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

Firehouse Magazine: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered through there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. – Capt. Chris Boyle
.

The FDNY Collapse Unit arrived and set up a transit to monitor the building

By 2:30 PM could see that WTC 7 was beginning to "move" or creep indicating structure was compromised
and high probably of collapse

At 3PM orders went out to set up collapse zone (WTC 7 was 47 story, 610 ft, collapse zone is 1.5 time height
or 900 ft around)

Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 o'clock, that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, we've got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and that's when 7 collapsed. Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess. –Lieutenant William Ryan

FF were moved or "pulled" away from WTC 7 - it collapsed at 520 PM

Originally posted by Alfie1

If "pull" means implode then do you agree that the only possible inference from the conversation is that FDNY did it ?

It's you saying the NYFD did it not me. Just another stretch of the truth.

Larry said he remembered getting a call from the fire commander saying they could not contain the fire, he DID NOT say the chief was in on the decision to 'pull' the building. He said WE decided to pull it, after getting that call. We does not necessarily mean the fire commander and Larry.

The decision to demolish the building, instead of continue to fight it, could have come partly from the fire commander though, I have no problem with that. All the high-ups must have known, there is no way they could be ignorant of it. It doesn't mean they were in on the 911 plot.

Something in the plans went wrong with WTC7, what is not exactly clear, but along with admitting it was pulled, and the media reporting it early, those involved must have known WTC7 was rigged to be demolished.

Why don't you just look at what fire fighters themselves are saying?

firefightersfor911truth.org...

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by longjohnbritches

 

Also reports of the extent of the damage reached the FDNY incident commanders who made decision to
abandon WTC 7 as being too dangerous this was shortly after noon (12PM)

We made searches. We attempted to put some of the fire out, but we had a pressure problem. I forget the name of the Deputy. Some Deputy arrived at the scene and thought that the building was too dangerous to continue with operations, so we evacuated number 7 World Trade Center. –Captain Anthony Varriale

So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandeis came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.

Firehouse Magazine: When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?

Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.

Firehouse: When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?

Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered through there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. – Capt. Chris Boyle
.

The FDNY Collapse Unit arrived and set up a transit to monitor the building

By 2:30 PM could see that WTC 7 was beginning to "move" or creep indicating structure was compromised
and high probably of collapse

At 3PM orders went out to set up collapse zone (WTC 7 was 47 story, 610 ft, collapse zone is 1.5 time height
or 900 ft around)

Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 o'clock, that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, we've got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and that's when 7 collapsed. Basically, we fell back for 7 to collapse, and then we waited a while and it got a lot more organized, I would guess. –Lieutenant William Ryan

FF were moved or "pulled" away from WTC 7 - it collapsed at 520 PM

Hi thed
Holly molly that is alot noise to try and sequence.
If you can and I am not saying what you have taken the time to post is wrong yet.
But do your best to condence all that info.

1 Could you put an exact time frame on Larry's statement in the OP where he says we made a decision to pull it and we watched the building fall?

2 Can you confirm that a decision to abandon was made at 12pm?

3 Why are times left out where you quote firemen saying
"We were heading for 7 and just around FREAKIN BLANK we were a hundered yards away." WTF
4 Do you confirm that by 2:30 7 was starting to move?
5 Do you confirn that the terminology at 3pm was prepare for a collaps zone?
6 Do you confirm that at 3pm a fire man said THEY THOUGHT 7 was going to collapse?
7 and at 3pm was that the time the firemen got every one in a pile and the main concern was to get every one out?
8 Do you confirm that not once in all the NYCFD speak is there even the SLIGHTEST mention of PULL IT.

See what you can do for me on this one if you dare.
thanks pal
if you spin you can't win
cause it is above you. You can see that right?
I am waiting for you.
All others will be ignored

reply to post by longjohnbritches

WITNESSES WHO WERE WARNED OF THE IMPENDING COLLAPSE

1) Firefighter Thomas Smith: "They backed me off the rig because seven was in dead jeopardy, so they backed everybody off and moved us to the rear end of Vesey Street. We just stood there for a half hour, 40 minutes, because seven was in imminent collapse and finally did come down." (Interview, 12/6/2001)

2) Firefighter Vincent Massa: "At this point Seven World Trade Center was going heavy, and they weren't letting anybody get too close. Everybody was expecting that to come down. ... I remember later on in the day as we were waiting for seven to come down, they kept backing us up Vesey, almost like a full block. They were concerned about seven coming down, and they kept changing us, establishing a collapse zone and backing us up." (Interview, 12/4/2001)

3) Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy: "Then, like I said, building seven was in eminent collapse. They blew the horns. They said everyone clear the area until we got that last civilian out. We tried to give another quick search while we could, but then they wouldn't let us stay anymore. So we cleared the area. ... So yeah, then we just stayed on Vesey until building seven came down." (Interview, 12/30/2001)

4) Indira Singh, a volunteer EMT: "What happened with that particular triage site is that pretty soon after noon, after midday on 9/11, we had to evacuate that because they told us Building 7 was coming down. ... I do believe that they brought Building 7 down because I heard that they were going to bring it down because it was unstable, because of the collateral damage. ... By noon or one o'clock they told us we had to move from that triage site up to Pace University, a little further away, because Building 7 was gonna come down or being brought down. ... There was another panic around four o'clock because they were bringing the building down and people seemed to know this ahead of time, so people were panicking again and running." (KPFA, 4/27/2005)

5) EMT Joseph Fortis: "When the third building came down, we were on that corner in front of the school, and everybody just stood back. They pulled us all back at the time, almost about an hour before it, because they were sure -- they knew it was going to come down, but they weren't sure. So they pulled everyone back, and everybody stood there and we actually just waited and just waited and waited until it went down, because it was unsafe." (Interview, 11/9/2001)

6) Fire Chief Thomas McCarthy: "So when I get to the command post, they just had a flood of guys standing there. They were just waiting for 7 to come down. ... I made it down Vesey Street to just in front of the overpass of 7 World Trade. People were saying don't stand under there, it's going to come down. ... So at that point we were a little leery about how the bridge was tied in, so no one was really going onto it, and then they were also saying 7 was going to come down. They chased everyone off the block." (Interview, 10/11/2001)

7) Firefighter Matthew Long: "And at that point they were worried that 7 was coming down so they were calling for everyone to back out. ... Because they were just adamant about 7 coming down immediately. I think we probably got out of that rubble and 18 minutes later is when 7 came down." (Interview, 10/9/2001)

8) Firefighter Edward Kennedy: "That was the only Mayday that I remember, and to tell you the truth, the only guy that really stands out in my mind that I remember being on the radio was Chief Visconti. ... I remember him screaming about 7, No. 7, that they wanted everybody away from 7 because 7 was definitely going to collapse, they don't know when, but it's definitely going to come down, just get the hell out of the way, everybody get away from it, make sure you're away from it, that's an order, you know, stuff like that." (Interview, 1/17/2002)

9) Paramedic Louis Cook: "We got to Chambers and Greenwich, and the chief turns around and says, 'There's number Seven World Trade. That's the OEM bunker.' We had a snicker about that. We looked over, and it's engulfed in flames and starting to collapse. ... We hear over the fire portable, 'Everybody evacuate the site. It's going to collapse.' Mark Steffens starts yelling, 'Get out of here! Get out of here! Get out of here! We've got to go! We've got to go! It's going to collapse.' ... We pulled the car over, turned around and just watched it pancake." (Interview, 10/17/2001)

10) Battalion Fire Chief John Norman: "After we found Chief Ganci, in addition to recon, I was detailed to make sure the collapse zone for 7 WTC had been set up and was being maintained. The sector commanders were trying to clear out of that area. We expected it to fall to the south, into the areas we were searching." (John Norman, "Search and Rescue Operations," Fire Engineering, 10/2002)

John Norman (in another account): "Now we're still worried about 7. We have guys trying to make their way up into the pile, and they're telling us that 7 is going to fall down - and that was one of the directions from the command post, to make sure we clear the collapse zone from 7 and this is a 600-foot-tall building, so we had to clear a 600-foot radius from that building." ("WTC: This Is Their Story," Firehouse, 5/2002)

11) Deputy Fire Chief Nick Visconti: "Now, World Trade Center 7 was burning and I was thinking to myself, how come they're not trying to put this fire out? ... At some point, Frank Fellini said, now we've got hundreds of guys out there, hundreds and hundreds, and that's on the West Street side alone. He said to me, Nick, you've got to get those people out of there. I thought to myself, out of where? Frank, what do you want, Chief? He answered, 7 World Trade Center, imminent collapse, we've got to get those people out of there. ... There were a couple of chiefs out there who I knew and I called them individually. I said to them, listen, start backing those people out, we need them back up to the command post. While this was going on, I saw individual company officers. I was whistling, Captain, bring your guys this way. I was getting some resistance. The common thing was, hey, we've still got people here, we don't want to leave. I explained to them that we were worried about 7, that it was going to come down and we didn't want to get anybody trapped in the collapse. One comment was, oh, that building is never coming down, that didn't get hit by a plane, why isn't somebody in there putting the fire out? A lot of comments, a bit of resistance, understandable resistance." ("WTC: This Is Their Story," Firehouse, 8/2002)

12) Firefighter James Wallace: "They were saying building seven was going to collapse, so we regrouped and went back to our rig. We went to building four or three; I don't know. We were going to set up our tower ladder there. They said no good because building seven is coming down." (Interview, 12/29/2001)

13) Fire Captain Robert Sohmer: "As the day went on they started worrying about 7 World Trade Center collapsing and they ordered an evacuation from that area so at that time, we left the area with the other companies, went back to the command post on Broadway ... We were about to proceed our operation there and this was in the afternoon, I would say approximately maybe 2:00 roughly, where we started to operate and then they asked us to fall back again due to the potential of 7 World Trade Center collapsing." (Interview, 1/17/2002)

14) Fire Lieutenant William Ryan: "Then we found out, I guess around 3:00 o'clock, that they thought 7 was going to collapse. So, of course, we've got guys all in this pile over here and the main concern was get everybody out, and I guess it took us over an hour and a half, two hours to get everybody out of there. ... So it took us a while and we ended up backing everybody out, and that's when 7 collapsed." (Interview, 10/18/2001)

15) Fire Captain Brenda Berkman: "We no sooner got going on something there when a chief came along and said, 'Everybody's got to leave the area. We're afraid that Seven World Trade is going to fall down.' The whole south side of Seven World Trade had been hit by the collapse of the second Tower, and there was fire on every floor." (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 213)

FireWork newsletter (adding to Berkman's account): "After being ordered back because of the fear that yet another building was about to collapse (7 World Trade Center, 40+ stories), Brenda [Berkman] and her crew went to find other firefighters who might have some tools or a radio. ... That afternoon, 7 World Trade Center came down. 'We had cleared an enormous collapse zone for that, and it still wasn't big enough. When the thing came down, the rubble and the dust came across the West Side Highway, over and past the rubble from the towers that was there.'" (Linda Willing, "Report from Ground Zero: The World Trade Center Collapse," FireWork, 9/2001)

16) Firefighter Maureen McArdle-Schulman: "At that point, Seven World Trade had 12 stories of fire in it. They were afraid it was going to collapse on us, so they pulled everybody out. We couldn't do anything." (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 17)

17) Firefighter Pete Castellano: "We were ordered down from the tower ladder because of a possible collapse at Tower 7." (Interview, 12/28/2001)

18) Firefighter Brian Fitzpatrick: "We were then positioned on Vesey Street between North End and the West Side Highway because there was an imminent collapse on 7 World Trade, and it did collapse." (Interview, 12/6/2001)

19) Firefighter Christopher Patrick Murray: "Probably about 4:00 o'clock, 5:00 o'clock, our radios went dead, because we heard reports all day long of 7 World Trade possibly coming down and I think at 5:30 that came down." (Interview, 12/12/2001)

20) Firefighter Kevin McGovern: "Actually I think at that point just as we were leaving, guys -- I don't know who it was. I guess it was a chief was saying clear the area, because they were worried about number Seven World Trade Center coming down and burying guys who were digging. So we basically went back to the rig, because they were clearing that area out. It took about three hours for Seven World Trade Center to actually come down." (Interview, 12/11/2001)

21) Firefighter George Holzman: "We stayed there for quite sometime when I don't even know who, I think it was someone, Lieutenant Lowney spoke to, asked us to leave the area, they were concerned about 7 World Trade Center collapsing." (Interview, 1/17/2002)

22) Byron Pitts, CBS News correspondent: "About an hour ago, World Trade Center building number 7 collapsed. ... It was the one calamity that was not a surprise. Police had evacuated the area hours ago, fearful building number 7 would indeed fall down." (CBS News, 9/11/2001)

23) Kansas City Star: "About 4:30 p.m., word went out to evacuate the area. Officials were worried that Building 7 of the Trade Center complex would collapse." (David Hayes, "Amid despair, photographer's work brought hope," Kansas City Star, 3/28/2004)

24) Tom Franklin, photographer: "It was about 4 p.m., and they were anticipating Seven World Trade Center collapsing. The firemen were leaving en masse." (Newseum, Running Toward Danger, 2002, p. 204)

Tom Franklin (in another account): "It was 4:45 p.m., and all the firemen and rescue workers were evacuating Ground Zero after word came that a third building -- WTC 7 -- was ready to fall." (Tom Franklin, "The After-Life of a Photo that Touched a Nation," Columbia Journalism Review, 3/1/2002)

25) Mark Jacobson, reporter, New York Magazine: "Hours later, I sat down beside another, impossibly weary firefighter. ... Then, almost as a non sequitur, the fireman indicated the building in front of us, maybe 400 yards away. 'That building is coming down,' he said with a drained casualness. 'Really?' I asked. At 47 stories, it would be a skyscraper in most cities, centerpiece of the horizon. But in New York, it was nothing but a nondescript box with fire coming out of the windows. 'When?' 'Tonight ... Maybe tomorrow morning.' This was around 5:15 p.m. I know because five minutes later, at 5:20, the building, 7 World Trade Center, crumbled." (Mark Jacobson, "The Ground Zero Grassy Knoll," New York Magazine, 3/27/2006)

26) Paramedic Joseph Cahill: "The reason we were given for why we were moving was that 7 World Trade Center was going to collapse or was at risk of collapsing. So we must have been somewhere in this area where we would have had a problem with that. ... They wanted us to move the treatment sector because of 7 World Trade Center was imminently to collapse, which, of course, it did." (Interview, 10/15/2001)

27) EMT Mercedes Rivera: "At that point, they said that Seven World Trade had no face and it was ready to collapse." (Susan Hagen and Mary Carouba, Women at Ground Zero, 2002, p. 29)

28) Christine Haughney, reporter, Washington Post: "Then a policeman directed me north. The Solomon Smith Barney building--Building Seven--was about to collapse." (Chris Bull and Sam Erman, At Ground Zero, 2002, p. 17)

29) Peter DeMarco, reporter, New York Daily News: "Seven or eight blocks down Greenwich Street, the No. 7 World Trade building, a smaller, forty-story structure, was on fire. The street was closed; the building was going to collapse." (Chris Bull and Sam Erman, At Ground Zero, 2002, p. 97)

30) Fire Chief Joseph Pfeifer: "Yes, I watched 7. At one point, we were standing on the west side of West Street and Vesey. And I remember Chief Nigro coming back at that point saying I don't want anybody else killed and to take everybody two blocks up virtually to North End and Vesey, which is a good ways up. And we stood there and we watched 7 collapse." ("WTC: This Is Their Story," Firehouse, 4/2002)

31) Battalion Fire Chief Frank Congiusta: "While we were searching the subbasements, they decided that Seven World Trade Center, which was across the street, was going to collapse. So they called us out. ... When I came out, they were calling us on the radio to tell us to get out. Then I reported that the search was negative, and then they wouldn't let anybody near the site pretty much, because Seven World Trade Center was going to come down." (Interview, 1/8/2002)

32) EMT Jason Charles: "So we started heading over to where Building 7 was at and they were like Building 7 is going to collapse, you can't go over there, this and that, and there was another building that they thought was going to collapse that was like right behind the triage center, the building that we were in." (Interview, 1/23/2002)

33) Fire Lieutenant Roy David: "At Pace University we had -- we set up -- I'm sorry, we set up in that lobby of that building, the lobby and the actual whole first floor. There was a threat of collapse of building number seven, so 225, we had to evacuate it." (Interview, 10/12/2001)

34) EMT Decosta Wright: "They said -- we were like, are you guys going to put that fire out? I was like, you know, they are going to wait for it to burn down and it collapsed. ... Yes, so basically they measured out how far the building was going to come, so we knew exactly where we could stand. ... 5 blocks. 5 blocks away. We still could see. Exactly right on point, the cloud just stopped right there. Then when that building was coming down, the same thing, that same rumbling." (Interview, 10/11/2001)

35) Fire Lieutenant Rudolf Weindler: "I ran into Chief Coloe from the 1st Division, Captain Varriale, Engine 24, and Captain Varriale told Chief Coloe and myself that 7 World Trade Center was badly damaged on the south side and definitely in danger of collapse. Chief Coloe said we were going to evacuate the collapse zone around 7 World Trade Center, which we did." (Interview, 1/15/2002)

36) Liz Gonzalez, reporter, Telemundo/Channel 47: "They started evacuating the area because they thought a third building was going to go down. We decided to stay. We saw the third building crash." (Newseum, Running Toward Danger, 2002, p. 209)

37) Sara Kugler, reporter, the Associated Press: "I saw hundreds of firefighters leaning against buildings, sitting on trucks, eating fruit and water that the Red Cross was handing out. 'Where are all the injured?' I asked. 'They are not letting us in. It's not stable,' said the firefighters. ... All of a sudden Seven World Trade Center started to collapse." (Newseum, Running Toward Danger, 2002, p. 210)



WITNESSES WHO APPARENTLY KNEW IN ADVANCE OF THE COLLAPSE

1) Fire Chief Frank Fellini: "The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. ... We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing. So for the next five or six hours we kept firefighters from working anywhere near that building, which included the whole north side of the World Trade Center complex. Eventually around 5:00 or a little after, building number seven came down." (Interview, 12/3/2001)

2) Fire Chief Daniel Nigro: "The biggest decision we had to make on the first day was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building heavily involved in fire. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt. I issued the orders to pull back the firefighters and define the collapse zone. It was a critical decision; we could not lose any more firefighters. It took a lot of time to pull everyone out, given the emotionalism of the day, communications difficulties, and the collapse terrain." (Daniel Nigro, "Report from the Chief of Department," Fire Engineering, 9/2002)

Daniel Nigro (in another account): "I ordered the evacuation of an area sufficient around to protect our members, so we had to give up some rescue operations that were going on at the time and back the people away far enough so that if 7 World Trade did collapse, we wouldn't lose any more people. We continued to operate on what we could from that distance and approximately an hour and a half after that order was given, at 5:30 in the afternoon, 7 World Trade Center collapsed completely." (Interview, 10/24/2001)

3) Fire Chief Frank Cruthers: "Early on, there was concern that 7 World Trade Center might have been both impacted by the collapsing tower and had several fires in it and there was a concern that it might collapse. So we instructed that a collapse area ... be set up and maintained so that when the expected collapse of 7 happened, we wouldn't have people working in it." (Interview, 10/31/2001)

Frank Cruthers (in another account): "Of primary importance early on in the operation was the structural condition of 7 World Trade Center. Assistant Chief Frank Fellini had been approached by several chiefs who were concerned about its stability. It had been heavily damaged in the collapse and was well-involved in fire. Chief Fellini had looked at it and described to us some damage to its south side; he felt that structural components of the building had been comprised. So when Chief Dan Nigro arrived at the command post, he convened a meeting of staff chiefs, and this was a major subject of the meeting. We were all in accord about the danger of 7 WTC, and we all agreed that it was not too conservative of a decision to establish a collapse zone for that building, move the firefighters out of the collapse area, and maintain that strategy." (Frank Cruthers, "Postcollapse Command," Fire Engineering, 9/2002)

4) Fire Captain Ray Goldbach: "There was a big discussion going on at that point about pulling all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center. Chief Nigro didn't feel it was worth taking the slightest chance of somebody else getting injured. So at that point we made a decision to take all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center because there was a potential for collapse. ... Made the decision to back everybody away, took all the units and moved them all the way back toward North End Avenue, which is as far I guess west as you could get on Vesey Street, to keep them out of the way." (Interview, 10/24/2001)

5) Fire Engineering magazine: "FDNY chief officers surveyed 7 WTC and determined that it was in danger of collapse. Chief Frank Cruthers, now the incident commander, and Chief Frank Fellini, the operations commander, both agreed that a collapse zone had to be established. That meant firefighters in the area of the North Tower had to be evacuated. This took some time to accomplish because of terrain, communications, and the fierce determination with which the firefighters were searching. At 5:30 p.m., about 20 minutes after the last firefighters evacuated the collapse zone, 7 WTC collapsed. It was the third steel-frame high-rise in history to collapse from fire--the other two had collapsed earlier that day." ("World Trade Center Disaster: Initial Response," Fire Engineering, 9/2002)

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Alfie1

If "pull" means implode then do you agree that the only possible inference from the conversation is that FDNY did it ?

It's you saying the NYFD did it not me. Just another stretch of the truth.

Larry said he remembered getting a call from the fire commander saying they could not contain the fire, he DID NOT say the chief was in on the decision to 'pull' the building. He said WE decided to pull it, after getting that call. We does not necessarily mean the fire commander and Larry.

The decision to demolish the building, instead of continue to fight it, could have come partly from the fire commander though, I have no problem with that. All the high-ups must have known, there is no way they could be ignorant of it. It doesn't mean they were in on the 911 plot.

Something in the plans went wrong with WTC7, what is not exactly clear, but along with admitting it was pulled, and the media reporting it early, those involved must have known WTC7 was rigged to be demolished.

I didn't say FDNY were in on it, I think the idea is ludicrous, but I asked you if there could be any other inference if "pull" meant implode in the reported conversation.

Despite the words being posted several times and you yourself posting the second sentence two or three posts back you re-write it to respond to me. He didn't say "WE decided to pull"; he said " And THEY made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

If pull means implode what else can you deduce from that other than FDNY already knew WTC 7 was rigged for cd and how to iniiate it and were ready to get right on, but afterwards remained silent ? The silence alone would make them complicit. And if they knew about the rigging of WTC 7 why not the Towers ?