Vegetarians vs. meat-eaters: Standoff is over

Vegetarians slaughter more life than meat eaters do. Those poor plants have an energy force as well. As scientists have shown they can think, feel, adapt, eat, live, and die. Humans must eat energy for energy.

I agree eating meat is awful, but at least your not the one killing it. Maybe if you had to kill your own food you could come to make a real decision. But while others are doing it for meat eaters, they will not think twice about that burger.

As my daughter says, a burger is a burger, and a cow is a cow. The two are separate. A cow does not look like a burger, therefore, the burger is not a cow.

reply to post by purplemer


Not many primitive vegetarian tribes round the world

reply to post by sting130u

As my daughter says, a burger is a burger, and a cow is a cow. The two are separate. A cow does not look like a burger, therefore, the burger is not a cow.

What?

That's ridiculous.

Just like the guys in Wall Street steal and embezzle millions of dollars, but do not look like thieves, therefore, they are not criminals?

Originally posted by wmd_2008
reply to post by purplemer

 

Not many primitive vegetarian tribes round the world

Not many primitive tribes around the world either..

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...
Women Who Cut Out Red Meat Twice As Likely To Suffer Anxiety

nourishedkitchen.com...
10 Reasons NOT to Give Up Red Meat

All good reasons but:

3. Stearic Acid

Stearic acid is a saturated fat found in beef and other meats. Despite the current and prevalent thought that saturated fats cause an elevation in cholesterol, research indicates that stearic acid actually lowers LDL cholesterol....


Red meats, particularly beef and lamb, are rich in zinc and provide an easy way to access this vital nutrient in a whole-food form....

Red meat is a potent source of B vitamins, particularly vitamin B12. These nutrients are concentrated in the organ meats--particularly, the liver.

Red meat is actually very healthy and Always Always Always get really suspicious of them for demonizing anything, it means you need it.

I can't believe this thread is still going on!

Okay, it has been about a week since I watched the shocking and disturbing video on the meat industry. While it is still in the back of my mind and I've done a good job of not eating any meat for about week, I caved and had beef for lunch and dinner tonight! I'm beginning to think that I'm actually addicted to the meat. If I lived by myself I think I would have an easier time giving up meat, but I can't expect my wife and kid to do the same.

Just an update for your reading pleasure...

-VB

I generally am not, or have been critical of what others do and I am a vegan. I have been a vegan since 2009. All I ask for those who are not vegetarian or vegan to please show the animals a bit more respect. If you are going to eat them at least don’t be blissfully ignorant/apathetic to how the majority are treated in industrialized nations. See the videos; we are not trying to convince you of anything. The animals at least deserve some awareness for all the pain and suffering they endure. Right?

Here’s a link for the top 50 comments from non-vegans and the responses to them.

I’ll leave you with some words from intelligent people on this subject:

“Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet." - Albert Einstein

“The beef industry has contributed to more American deaths than all the wars of this century, all natural disasters, and all automobile accidents combined. If beef is your idea of "real food for real people" you'd better live real close to a real good hospital."
- Neal Barnard, M.D.

“I wonder both by what accident and in what state of soul or mind the first man abstained from flesh, touched his mouth to gore and brought his lips to the flesh of a dead creature, he who set forth tables of dead, stale bodies and ventured to call food and nourishment the parts that had a little before bellowed and cried, moved and lived. How could his eyes endure the slaughter when throats were slit and hides flayed and limbs torn from limb? How could his nose endure the stench? How was it that the pollution did not turn away his taste, which made contact with the sores of others and sucked juices and serums from mortal wounds? We slaughter harmless, tame creatures without stings or teeth to harm us, creatures that Nature appears to have produced for the sake of their beauty and grace. But nothing abashed us not the flower-like like tinting of the flesh, not the persuasiveness of the harmonious voice, not the cleanliness of their habits or the unusual intelligence that may be found in the poor wretches. No, for the sake of a little flesh we deprive them of sun, of light, of the duration of life to which they are entitled by birth and being.” –Plutarch

“The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man.”
-Charles Darwin

“For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other, he who seeks the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love" -Pythagoras

Veterinarians have always FEARED people that eat meat and have ALWAYS tried to impress their "Lifestyle" on others. The bottom line is IF, there were a World catastrophe, Carnivores will turn to humans as their primary food source. That is EVERY Veterinarian's nightmare, they would become prey. Carnivores are naturally much more aggressive that Herbivores or Omnivores as they are in the wild today. It's only natural that the Veterinarians would be at the top of the menu......So, you wanna be at the table or on the table?

Originally posted by Tripple_Helix
reply to post by sting130u

 

As my daughter says, a burger is a burger, and a cow is a cow. The two are separate. A cow does not look like a burger, therefore, the burger is not a cow.

What?

That's ridiculous.

Just like the guys in Wall Street steal and embezzle millions of dollars, but do not look like thieves, therefore, they are not criminals?

I did not mean that in a way to say that I believe it. I know the two are one in the same. My 5 year old, however, does not.

reply to post by pistolerooo

Veterinarians have always FEARED people that eat meat

That is not true.. I am vegetarian and I am not scared of meat eaters...

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


I'm not attack vegetarians.. I am just pointing something out.

It is very funny to me though. You never see meat eaters on a crusade to turn vegetarians, but you do see it the other way around. The reality is this being an omnivore is the human way and it is natural. Almost all (if not all) primates are omnivores, monkeys kill other animals (including different species of monkeys) and eat them.

Most vegetarians ( we will say how about 95 percent?) return to eating both eventually in their lives out of either health concerns or actually just the desire to eat meat (most start experiencing a strong desire to eat meat after a few years).

The one thing that is undeniable is that humans eating meat is natural. I fpeople have a problem with how meat is processed and packaged running for the hills does nothing, they should start killing and processing their own meat in a fashion they deem suitable and lead by example. That would be a movement that lead change rather than pushing people to cut meat from their diet, push them to raise and kill one or two cows a year and they will be set. That is usually all the meat someone needs, a good sized cow a year.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
You never see meat eaters on a crusade to turn vegetarians

Well I've met people hostile toward vegetarians and others have tried to persuade me to eat meat. A group of xians told me that they had no right to condemn me as their bible tells them not to. That's nice.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow just the desire to eat meat (most start experiencing a strong desire to eat meat after a few years).

Yea, it's like being an alcoholic. Every once and a while I have a strong urge. Salt cures it. I can still broil an awesome ribeye though. At least that's what I'm told. Smells good anyway.

Im posting to this thread because I'm celebrating my once a month beef night tonight!!! And I am salivating just writing this post, I started eating beef just once a month about 6 mos. or so ago and although I feel no different physically it is financially cheaper to eat this way...I no longer eat pork at all and chicken or fish and sometimes just vegitables.....But theres nothing like a nice juicy steak...

My husband and I quit eating meat 1 year ago and we do not regret it!! We have both lost weight and I personally feel just generally better inside my body. I also do not have near the appetite I used to have. I will never go back to eating meat.

reply to post by shells4u


cun freaking grATES BRAV FREAKO GOOOO......

reply to post by Chadwickus


That's a stretching it, man.
Whereas I do understand the kind of ironic humor in it, you have to be joking to think that 'accidentally' ingesting a spider or two or other insects is the same thing as eating red meat. (For starters, I do not believe that insect constitute as 'red meat.')
Also, the spiders and frogs and grasshoppers aren't kept in crowded stalls, fed horrible food, pumped full of antibiotics and steroids and then slaughtered on a mass scale.

You also (supposedly) swallow at least a dozen or so spiders and other insects throughout your lifetime as you sleep.

There's an expert in nutrition who operates a website as well as a YouTube channel by the name Plant Positive. He has two series of videos, each one about 15 hours long (broken up into 10-30 minute segments). It's really incredible what he's done - using source material, and original peer-reviewed journals, he calmly and exhaustively refutes the dozens of claims put forth by various proponents of high-meat diets. His website also contains written summaries of each video, for reference.


He could have written several books and probably banked a pretty penny for all the work he put into these series. The thing which makes his videos so superior is the fact that he never uses emotional arguments, hyperbole, or exaggeration. It's all about the science, nothing more nothing less.

A general response to those who criticize vegetarian diets:


Response to Denise Minger:


Analysis of the "controversial" China Study:


He covers basically every argument I've ever heard. And he's like a one-man-army when it comes to providing appropriate peer-reviewed research to prove his points. Meat eaters and vegans alike can benefit from having quite a bit of lingering confusion cleared away, when it comes to the science!

And there really shouldn't be any argument in a truly civilized society:

The only logical reason why modern people would ever consume animals is because they need to for survival, or because it's healthy. However, nutritionally speaking, there is no nutrient found in meat that is not also found, in abundance, in plant-based foods.* Every human can theoretically survive and thrive on a plant-based diet. So there is, in reality, no logical or nutritional justification for consuming animals.** Right?

I'm not pointing fingers or throwing stones - I went vegetarian on a dare - that's how "morally self-righteous" I am. There's a very, very, very good reason why most vegans were meat-eaters for many years prior to switching - and they are ALL the same reasons why meat-eaters today continue to do so. It tastes great. It's easy to prepare. Feels satisfying. But comparing that against looking at an animal, and killing it, just to have those pleasures? It's personally a hideously cruel thought to me. That's all I will say on that.





* - Vitamin B12 is made by bacteria - and almost every grain consumed in modern societies has been supplemented with it. Beyond that, supplementation is recommended. Our guts used to produce it in sufficient quantities, but the price we pay for sanitized living conditions is an environment depleted of this vitamin's only natural source.

** - It's not an easy task to back up such a nebulous claim - and of all the books or big-name experts to choose from, I think the two 15-hour series of videos that I alluded to in my first comment represents the most professional and broad body of information that can be readily viewed and digested for free.

Cheers

Explanation: Off course the standoff is over and it is not about who was right or who was wrong as TECHNOLOGY has made the entire issue a moot point and here is why ...

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by forklift

 

Explanation: S&F!

So what do you guys think about giving human rights to animals?

I think it is aok as potein from a vat is available and so the issue of taking a life, when it is not needed to save another life, in the form of food begs the moral question of "Is the monoculture of farming animals for produce best practice?"

Everything has the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happyness. Dolphins included!

Now we have a basic level of communication started we can start asking them how they feel about us and what we do that affects them both for better or worse and maybe we could communicate ideas to them on working together [OL remembers Halo Jones 2000AD comiz where there was a dolphin deep space pilot as part of the storyline

].

And how does one go about implementing such a law as ridiculous as it may sound?

One doesn't need to do anything at all ... as the human rights are not legally binding!

Questions and answers about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [unac.org]

Q: Who are the signatories of the Declaration?

A: Since the Declaration is not legally binding technically, there are no signatories to the Declaration. Instead, the Declaration was ratified through a proclamation by the General Assembly on December 10, 1948 with a count of 48 votes to none with only 8 abstentions. This was considered a triumph as the vote unified very diverse, even conflicting political regimes.

Q: To whom does the Declaration apply?

A: The Declaration is based on the "inherent dignity" of all people and affirms the equal rights of all men and women, in addition to their right to freedom. The Declaration gives human rights precedence over the power of the state. While states are permitted to regulate rights, they are prohibited from violating them.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org]

Universal Declaration of Human Rights [wiki]

Personal Disclosure: I hope that helps!

And the above apllies to PLANTS ALSO ... and I reiterate ...

I think it is aok as potein from a vat is available and so the issue of taking a life, when it is not needed to save another life, in the form of food begs the moral question of "Is the monoculture of farming animals for produce best practice?"

That also applies to all plants ... and ...

Everything has the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happyness. Dolphins included!

And that also includes all plants and all of their seeds ok!

Personal Disclosure: There is no need to eat anything but dirt made into the forms of food that we require ok!

@Both morally reprehensible sides in this debate ... STOP THE SLAUGHTER OK because science has saved us if we but apply it!

Well I see no stand off. You eat what you want to and I'll do the same.
I'm the healthiest I've ever been since giving up carb rich foods like grains, legumes and tubers.

Whether the red meat I consume is shortening my life I can't say. If it is I'm sure it's balanced out by removing the really bad stuff listed above and never eating processed rubbish that's full of chemicals.