Vegetarians vs. meat-eaters: Standoff is over

I agree that seventy five percent of people on this planet could survive without eating meat. I understand that the 25 percent that need to eat meat control 80 percent of the real power in the world. Vegetarians shouldn't push their ways on others just as the meat eaters shouldn't push their way on vegetarians. I do not question if meat eaters should eat less meat, we do eat too much, but my main concern is the waste that occurs with all the food. If you take a life whether plant or animal it should be respected. It should not be wasted. People waste way too much food. I actually respect the people living out of dumpsters a little because they are eating our wasted food. I'd never do that. Our fields are getting severely burnt out from this practice. Our dumps are filling up.

I won't put some of the commercial food in my compost and when we throw commercial food scraps to the deer that visit, I peel the fruit for them and throw the peels away. I scrub the potatoes to get rid of the added anhydrates used as antisprouting agents. and don't feed them commercial corn. I believe in treating my friends with respect and refrain from feeding them poisons. I even worry about animals getting into the garbage and eating the toxins we consume daily.

The monkeys of today are de-evolved humans, NOT pre-evolved. The monkeys of today are omnivores but the majority of their diet are plants. The vegetarians of today will join their primate companions soon enough as they appear to want to go 'back in time", returning to their bacterial origins www.youtube.com...

If you cannot hunt, you WILL be hunted. As an omnivore I am grateful I can eat both meat and plants but I strive to be the carnivorous PREDATOR hunting the vegetarians of today. My eyes will keep up front while the eyes of the vegetarian pull back to the sides of their head.

You are either the pimp, or you get pimped (www.djhives.com).

Kill, or be killed. The choice is of course yours.

This is the natural way.

reply to post by DanteAltair


I do not hold anything against those who are vegetarians. I have quite a few friends who have chosen to live that lifestyle and they are entitled to do what they please. If I could live without meat I might try it but I can get a little crazy from eating too much of the plants defense system that it creates to deter over-consumption by organisms that eat it. I am an omnivour and to remain a non threat to others and nature I must consume meats. There are many in this world that are like me. Belief and morality can keep us from turning irrational if we consume things that we are not able to eat properly but we will still get sick and suffer. I see a great need for morals and inner convictions as a root of society. I cannot judge others because they differ from me, I can only steer them with acquired knowledge of reality.

Originally posted by torqpoc

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by torqpoc

 

Science books are your friend.

Yes they are my friends. I quoted from a peep review paper in my OP. Maybe you should try quoting from them too. They are your friends too....!

I don't need to quote or link science fact. Maybe you should try educating yourself a little, since you think you "evolved". I think you'll find that term isn't quite scientific fact in your respect. Then again you link a paper which disregards humans have incisors *shrug* and seem to be proud of it, what the hell is a peep review anyway? Is that like a hot and sweaty academic get together where new "facts" get their "pages" off? Don't make me laugh.


And since you're such a plebeian and can't use the internet yourself:
www.iianthropology.org...
www.beyondveg.com...
www.raw-food-health.net...
berkeley.edu...

The fact is it is scientific fact that our evolution is directly linked to eating protein from meat. It is only when spaced out hippies worried about meat animals suffering and turning to vegetarians that the science became blurred. If anyone actually thought about it, they'd realise that we are unable to return in time to "educate" our ancestors into the potential alternatives protein food sources, nor was there a proliferation of alternatives, which makes the entire vegetarian arguement moot regarding "protein from meat being an integral part of man's evolution".

I'll also go further to state it is only vegetarians who put themselves on this high moral ground dictacting to meat eaters what they should and shouldn't eat. Do meat eaters come to your house pushing their propaganda to you, telling you that you must eat meat? I don't think so. You're like a bunch of ex-smokers, religious nut jobs, who think you have the right to tell others how to live and what to eat. Should we start wearing yellow crosses on our clothes also, so you can identify us better? Fascism has many facets, think about that all you preachy types.

Now go read and stop pestering me with your nonsense while I go hunt some meat to kill and eat.

T

edit on 23-3-2012 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

Strange enough the human brain functions fine without meat. You could be one more spokesmen for the giant meat production industry they lies and bombards us with our need for Milk and Meat.

reply to post by torqpoc

This is still being argued in science.

"So we think that the shift to eating corms, bulbs and tubers gave our ancestors enough sugar resources to develop a large brain.”
www.nytimes.com...

Reading these Vegi/Meat posts reminds me of the war between cattlemen and sheep ranchers in the past. They never really got along.

reply to post by purplemer


I don't agree with your assertion that the stand-off is over. Frankly, I don't care if eating meat is less healthy as compared to other forms of consumption. I do not want to live forever. I enjoy animal flesh...it is magically delicious. No amount of research, proof or appeals to conscience will change this fact about me. You will have to use force. I guess what I am trying to say is that people, in general, should leave well enough alone. I have no problem with what the vegetarian faction chooses as sustenance. Please do the noble thing and allow me the sustenance that I prefer.

Why is it that one of the arguments of pro-veggies is health related? Being a vegetarian will not make a person immortal so, I find that point of argument to be moot.

(The below run-on sentence is a general statement, directed at no one)
What is the point of being healthy if you don't enjoy life or, for that matter, if you have to sacrifice your valuable time to make sure you are eating the foods that will make you healthier?
(The above run-on sentence is a general statement, directed at no one)

Also, I cannot agree with this statement of yours:

Eating meat in my opinion is an act of bullying against animals.

In my opinion eating meat is natural. If we were not meant to eat meat we would regurgitate it, it would poison us, ETC. Also, if we were not meant to eat meat we, as a species, would probably spit it out immediately after taking a bite much like we do with a handful of dirt or a steaming pile of feces. Please, do me a favor....when a lioness drags you back to the den to feed her pride, please tell the alpha lion that you felt you were bullied.

However, I can agree with this statement that you made:

We can feed a lot more people with less land on vegetables...

That is a wonderful observation and true, to boot. Japan has some wonderful underground hydroponic farms that create far more food than a traditional farm, while using far less space to do so. Going a bit off-topic here but, I think we need to make greater use of this kind of technology combined with vertical farming.

Going back on-topic. Yes, there is a "but" coming. Even with these wonderful advancements in food technology I dare say that a great majority of the worlds population will still demand meat. All arguments, activism, studies and nonsense aside....cooked meat does provide benefits for humans. I may be mistaken but, cooked meat is a great tool for brain development in the evolutionary sense.

Originally posted by Ericthenewbie
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Speaking of contradictions, take the time to read the following articles before you think vegetarians don't kill for their taste buds;

Michigan State University researchers have determined plants feel pain;

www.bbspot.com...

Here is an article from the New York Times in 2009 by Natalie Angier that sheds some light on the intelligence aspect;

www.nytimes.com...

Also this article about Plants 'can think and remember'
By Victoria Gill Science reporter, BBC News;

www.bbc.co.uk...

edit on 23-3-2012 by Ericthenewbie because: fix links

the problem with your "sources" is that they are all newspapers and random internet sites. none of those sites support what you are claiming.
plants don't feel pain, they don't have a brain or a nervous system, they feel stimuli and react to it, this is not feeling pain, all life reacts to stimuli it is one of the attributes of being alive.
either the writers of those pages are blowing the idea out of proportion or the scientists need to be more careful with their terms.
yeah too many anthropomorphic terms in those articles, they don't say what you think they do.

i think this needs to be repeated: http: //www.gnolls.org/2893/always-be-skeptical-of-nutrition-headlines-or-what-red-meat-consumption-and-mortality-pan-et-al-really-tells-us/
kudos to whoever posted it! it refutes this nonsense quite well, simply by breaking down what a "prospective cohort study" is.
they are just scientists following a bunch of people throughout a given time period and shifting through data to find correlations between things in the data,

IE:this is basically a useless paper, it doesn't prove eating red meat raises your chances of cancer or CVD, or shortens your lifespan.
it uses people that are more often more healthy than the average person, and even downplay the amount of red meat they eat, along with smoking, drinking and other bad things.
it uses nurses, not all nurses are female and after telling people for years what not to do, is there any question they would attempt to be more healthy? or attempt to pretend they are?

lets see them do a study on normal people, only a double blind study that doesn't depend on something as weak as a self-report by the subjects every four(!) years.

Great another "I am holier than though" (read I am a vegan/vegetarian) thread!

If you really had pure intentions and wanted to help us, you wouldn't be bashing us with all this supposed guilt..

You are only adding fuel to the flames, with your condensating, better knowing, degrading tone and rhetorics.


Look up the word canine..
Our body is made to decompose meat, if we wherent we would die when we ate meat.
Try to feed meat to a cow and watch it die! (Just like it will when fed corn, unless we cut a hole into it, and take it out, before it clot up its system)

Originally posted by Char-Lee
Strange enough the human brain functions fine without meat. You could be one more spokesmen for the giant meat production industry they lies and bombards us with our need for Milk and Meat.

If you READ what I wrote, i'm talking about man's evolution, not modern day man.

What is it, a problem with your eyesight because you're not getting enough animal flesh in your system or just a blinkered belief system which tells you to don brown shirts, knee high leather boots and stomp your way through society telling others what to eat?


T

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


You say you havent seen "one Vegan or Vegetarian" preaching their point..........so what, in your opinion, is this thread about? In my opinion, it was meant to be provocative.

I eat meat. I enjoy eating meat. Im not forcing my choice on anyone, it is MY choice. If you dont like it, fine, but why argue the point? You dont eat meat.....cool! I do eat meat........just as cool. Why have this pi$$ing contest, either point is moot.

reply to post by demongoat


I disagree but if that is your stance to my posted links then you are no different in your assumptions of the article posted that started this thread. The title of which is " Vegetarians versus meat-eaters stand off is over"...after all the article itself recommends the consumption of both POULTRY and FISH?!?

Originally posted by torqpoc

Originally posted by Char-Lee
Strange enough the human brain functions fine without meat. You could be one more spokesmen for the giant meat production industry they lies and bombards us with our need for Milk and Meat.

If you READ what I wrote, i'm talking about man's evolution, not modern day man.

What is it, a problem with your eyesight because you're not getting enough animal flesh in your system or just a blinkered belief system which tells you to don brown shirts, knee high leather boots and stomp your way through society telling others what to eat?


T

edit on 24-3-2012 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

I don't recall telling anyone what to eat. I don't wear leather.I understood you just fine.

Originally posted by My_Reality
reply to post by purplemer

 

I don't agree with your assertion that the stand-off is over. Frankly, I don't care if eating meat is less healthy as compared to other forms of consumption. I do not want to live forever. I enjoy animal flesh...it is magically delicious. No amount of research, proof or appeals to conscience will change this fact about me. You will have to use force. I guess what I am trying to say is that people, in general, should leave well enough alone. I have no problem with what the vegetarian faction chooses as sustenance. Please do the noble thing and allow me the sustenance that I prefer.

Why is it that one of the arguments of pro-veggies is health related? Being a vegetarian will not make a person immortal so, I find that point of argument to be moot.

(The below run-on sentence is a general statement, directed at no one)
What is the point of being healthy if you don't enjoy life or, for that matter, if you have to sacrifice your valuable time to make sure you are eating the foods that will make you healthier?
(The above run-on sentence is a general statement, directed at no one)

Also, I cannot agree with this statement of yours:

Eating meat in my opinion is an act of bullying against animals.

In my opinion eating meat is natural. If we were not meant to eat meat we would regurgitate it, it would poison us, ETC. Also, if we were not meant to eat meat we, as a species, would probably spit it out immediately after taking a bite much like we do with a handful of dirt or a steaming pile of feces. Please, do me a favor....when a lioness drags you back to the den to feed her pride, please tell the alpha lion that you felt you were bullied.

However, I can agree with this statement that you made:

We can feed a lot more people with less land on vegetables...

That is a wonderful observation and true, to boot. Japan has some wonderful underground hydroponic farms that create far more food than a traditional farm, while using far less space to do so. Going a bit off-topic here but, I think we need to make greater use of this kind of technology combined with vertical farming.

Going back on-topic. Yes, there is a "but" coming. Even with these wonderful advancements in food technology I dare say that a great majority of the worlds population will still demand meat. All arguments, activism, studies and nonsense aside....cooked meat does provide benefits for humans. I may be mistaken but, cooked meat is a great tool for brain development in the evolutionary sense.

have you seen what they do to food animals? Do you care, do you refuse to look. Well enough alone and nothing progresses, we don't grow better we stagnate.

non meat eaters can stick to there tofu(which is not healthy over time) with no taste and miss out on amazing meat foods such as beef jerky, slim jim, juicy steak, bacon cheeseburgers, fried chicken, bbq chicken, chicken parm, ham, bbq ribs and much much more tasteful food... iv tried the fake stuff... its nowhere near the real deal.

I have noticed a very common factor among the vegetarians that I know. They share the quality of living a non exhaustive lifestyle. Things like yoga, meditation, and walking are their prime methods of exercise. On the other hand all of the athletes that I know eat a lot of red meat. Maybe you can "survive" without meat. I have found that this survival is based upon modern conveniences of not having to do hard physical work. I have also noticed that the people that don't like rigorous physical activity are also usually the first people to promote social control methods. Gun control, world government, existence taxation(climate taxes) these are the methods of control most commonly pushed.

According to a theory called survival of the fittest: the weaker humans will eventually cease to exist. I think I know which ones those are.

sb

reply to post by safetyblack


Yup, I'm an easy going vegetarian socialist. I have to admit, I don't understand aggressive work hungry people. The leisurely and creative life seems like the way to me. Why not take advantage of our frontal lobe and be some clever beings rather than vicious animals?

reply to post by gentledissident


Why not be both? I find that hard physical work often helps my mental clarity and focus. Some of my most creative artworks have occurred after a vigorous workout session. I am only relating what my experiences are. I see that certain lifestyles tend to become one sided and unbalance a person. The body is far more then a frontal lobe, It is all connected. Why have a weak link in the chain? The most powerful person I have ever known was physically and mentally strong. Balance is the key. Vegetarianism does not promote balance in my opinion.

sb

Just to clarify.

I love non red meat foods. I love fruits and vegetables. I love to put them in my mouth(South Park Kanye joke). People of course can choose to eat whatever they want. I just find it strange that people would exclude meat(red meat in the context of this thread) from their diet. It seems closed minded and absolutest. Two things that usually deter logic and critical thinking.

sb