Vegetarians vs. meat-eaters: Standoff is over

Originally posted by jonnywhite
My cousin was a vegetarian and she died of breast cancer. My grandpa was a heavy meat eater and lived to 100.

Case closed, in my perspective.

My Mom now 80s is fit as a fiddle and sharp of wit
She was diagnosed with crohn's disease over 45 years ago
She was one of 6 patients being treated by the famous professor goligher- A true gent and great yet humble man.
Back then Crohns was a killer and the prof was doing pioneering work in this field.
5 out of 6 of his patients died, Mom being the exception though half her bowels surgically removed due to the disease and combination of over 50 pills per day.
Mom decided to become a Vegan well not quite a Vegan as she ate fish - Miraculously the disease disappeared - the prof was shocked yet so pleased -
I have known others also get rid of disease using this diet
This is a reason I have the diet I do
I grow my own organic veg and fruits but am still a sucker for Vegan junk food - Yes there is such a thing.
Back in Moms days vegetarians were as rare as rocking horse shi* and Vegans were from out of space
How times have changed
Yet I say eat what you want no one but you should dictate what you eat

reply to post by artistpoet


Not everyone's nutritional dietary requirements are the same.

....and I am willing to bet that you are of a thin frame with a high-metabolism...am I correct?

Originally posted by jonnywhite
And you ever seen a vegetarian? They look like sticks.

This guy is such a stick.



This girl is such a stick.

Originally posted by maestromason
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Not everyone's nutritional dietary requirements are the same.

....and I am willing to bet that you are of a thin frame with a high-metabolism...am I correct?

Yes even when I ate meat as a child and into early teenage years I was Mr Matchstick Man
Since my uptake of my Pescatarian diet I am still thin yet energetic
I have kept the same weight more or less for 50 years
I am no angel - I like a smoke and a drink also.

reply to post by jonnywhite

And you ever seen a vegetarian? They look like sticks. Everything from the proper fatty acids to the b12 to the protein and on and on is lacking.

Oh Bull!

I know a family of vegtarians.. and they all have nice big paunches! I will never get stick thin on a vegan diet.. I make potato dauphinois with coconut milk, butternut soup with coconut milk, I cook with olive oils, drink my hemp seed oil, I eat falaffels, humus all things with essential oils... And, I eat CARBS! The key is bablance..

I could also say.. ' Have you ever seen a meat eater, omg... They look like the Oros man, they have rings under their eyes and a double chin! ' But no.. because all meat eaters do not look like that.

Balance is key.. If you want to be stupid about your diet, you will look sickly. Whether you are vegan or a meat eater.

reply to post by barmyfluid

No matter how you slice it, a person simply cannot get what they need without meat unless they got a office full of nutritional experts to fill their pill bottles. I'm just being honest with you.

Those two people you posted do not look full to me.

There's a difference. A full person looks vibrant and satisfied.

I have yet to see a vegetarian that looks the same. They're missing dynamo and spirit.

Part of it is the nutritional deficiency and the rest is mental - higher depression in non-meat eaters.

reply to post by trig_grl


If a person studies vegetarianism and understands how and what to eat they can live a long time. Not many have mastered it. I have a friend who is in his fifties and he says he has made many mistakes. Long term depletion of vitamins can sneak up on you as can depletion of the right kind of Iron. There are things to consider such as cox two inhibitors being consumed to frequently causing problems with veins and arteries. There is also a form of chemistry in beef that makes people mellow. It is also in cabbage and Asparagus and a few other veggies. Getting the proper amounts and types of glucose products is a problem to some also. Some people can't take gluten out of grains properly but can uptake the meat version well. It is a trial and error lifestyle tied to genetics that has little passed on generation to generation knowledge to show long term results. Some people have worked these out within three generations and have evolved away meat without complications. Maybe the reason I do not know the old vegetarians is that they are not out in public where I meet them or maybe they did not need work done on their homes. Women can become vegetarians easier than men and live longer. They have generally eaten less meat overall throughout history than men. It's our personal choice. If someone doesn't eat the meat the animal herd will still need to be thinned. Otherwise the cows, horses, deer, rabbits, partridge, etc,,, will eat all the vegetables. Think about it, man is an integral part of nature, The coyotes, wolves, bobcats, cougars, and bears population would explode to make up for mans part. All these animals can also eat humans. I suppose this would help curtail the human population again anyway

reply to post by jonnywhite

Those two people you posted do not look full to me.

Sorry... How do reckon they do not look, um... "full" A picture of a smiling girl, from the neck up... and you can tell she isn't "full"..

What are you like... 20 pounds over wight or something? ( I'm just asking as it's the only way your statement would make any sense) Its acually normal to be able to see your jaw bone.. just sayin'

They're missing dynamo and spirit.

Part of it is the nutritional deficiency and the rest is mental - higher depression in non-meat eaters.

That is a lie. Come on.. You serious?

reply to post by jonnywhite


Actually these long chain omega 3s can be converted from flax seed oil. Of course the ratio is smaller than from fish oils, but it is there. There are also algae supplements that can provide sources of omega 3s.

www.canceractive.com...

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


Yum - I am coming over for lunch
But seriously there is a misconception about Vegan food being boring - I love cooking and coming up with all sorts of dishes
edit - In fact when going to restaurants I find chefs love to be creative also re Vegan meals

reply to post by barmyfluid


So you're saying to just eat more fish and coconut oil?

reply to post by Char-Lee


I eat meat of all kinds (moderately), I don't like zoos at all, they make me sad.

reply to post by artistpoet

But seriously there is a misconception about Vegan food being boring

I know... Every time I make something, I aways say "who says Vegan food is boring?!" My boyfriend always comments how great the food is and can never believe it's truly vegan. Neither can my friends. Any food can be boring.. It's like Grilled chicken, nicely spiced and made with love vs Boiled chicken... bleh

Some imagination and zest goes a long way.

I just don't like any of these fake foods like, fake cheese and fake sausage... That puts me off.

Originally posted by artistpoet

Originally posted by maestromason
reply to post by artistpoet

 

Not everyone's nutritional dietary requirements are the same.

....and I am willing to bet that you are of a thin frame with a high-metabolism...am I correct?

Yes even when I ate meat as a child and into early teenage years I was Mr Matchstick Man
Since my uptake of my Pescatarian diet I am still thin yet energetic
I have kept the same weight more or less for 50 years
I am no angel - I like a smoke and a drink also.

Genetics play a HUGE part in your frame as well as diet, lifestyle and other factors. You are past the age where your body will change for it has done all the changing it will do by plan A,C,T,G.....some people's dietary lifestyles can activate genes that were dormant. This is also true.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix


Yes I grow my own food organically with a friend
Potato of various types, Jerusalem Artichoke red and white, Green Beans, Tomato x 4 variety's, Sweet Corn x 4 variety's, Spinach, Rainbow Chard, Chili x 4 variety's, Grapes, Blackcurrant, Redcurrant, Red Onion, Chives,
Spring Onion, Loganberry, Curry Plant, Joga Berry, Red Gooseberry, Aubergine, Squash, Courgette, Butternut Squash, Oranges, Strawberry's, Garlic, Coriander, Basil, Mints, Rocket, Lettuce etc etc
We also pick out of the wild - Mushrooms, Apples, Hazelnut, Chestnut Wild Garlic etc
We are looking for land to grow more such as Cauliflower, Parsnip, Red Cabbage, Wheat, Oats.

reply to post by Tripple_Helix

I'm with you there. I don't like the fake sh** either.

You know my meat eating grandpa that lived to 100? He drank whole milk. As natural as he could get it. When he was growing up it was non-pasteurized. Just got it directly from cattle.

Locally grown and farmed by people you know. That's the best way to go.

The factory farming is a blemish but more than that the animals aren't happy and aren't healthy.

reply to post by maestromason


Yes it is true - Genetics play a role as to disease we can be susceptible to - This is why I feel diet is key
Though it is up to each to see which foods suit them
Often if we are unfamiliar with certain foods it takes time for our systems to adjust

reply to post by rickymouse



Well from a meat eating perspective, oily fish, pilchards, sardines yes. The smaller the fish, the better, and krill. From a non-meat eating stance one of the best sources of omega 3 is from flax, followed by pumpkin/sunflower seeds and all sorts of nuts a more. A lot of meat eaters that I know do actually try to up their veggie sources of omega 3 because of concerns over toxicity in fish. It's all about balance though and getting the omegas in ratio, because most well balanced diets, especially a veggie one, should be rich in omega 6 already.
,

In reading through the comments I see a conversational switch from "red meat" to "meat" in general as the dialogue progresses from the original article posted...help me out here...

Is the argument now that all meat including "white" meat is also bad ( i.e. Fish, Turkey, Chicken and Pork etc.)? If so, can someone taking this stance please provide some evidence as to the negative implications of having these "white" meats in your diet?

Does the term "red meat" only refer to cows or does this also include all darker meats in general such as Venison, Ostrich and Kangaroo etc.?

Also can it be confirmed as to where the "red meat" in the original article is obtained, was it purchased from a supermarket chain or was it organically raised without additives?

Lastly, are the vegetables/grains being discussed organically grown or are they store bought?

I just want to ensure I have clear understanding of all the "facts" being used in the various arguments taking place in this thread. Thanks in advance for those of you willing to shed some light on my above questions.

reply to post by artistpoet


...and to expound on what you are saying....people grow up on one diet and as adults change them and who knows what the change in diet is doing or has already done?

I like yourself grew up a tall stick but when I left my mother's house and her kitchen along with very well-balanced and wholesome feedings I blew up like a balloon! Now I am no longer the stick at 6' 2 1/2" @ 275lbs(muscular).

As one ages your metabolism slow down, the body's ability to break down waste becomes less efficient hence the need for supplements and vitamins, cellular structure decays, bone mass decreases and susceptibility to ailments increases, mental acuity lessens, ect and strictly eating vegetables is not going to fix all of this....if anything it would harm the elderly decaying body.


The only thing that can rejuvenate all of this would be either the Philosopher's Stone or a time machine and I have yet to know of anyone who has discovered either one of them.


Cells cycle and die for a reason.