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Do you understand them?
Originally posted by diamondsmith
There are powers beyond your understanding.
What power would that be? Gravity?
Originally posted by diamondsmith
Like the power of a leaf falling on the ground.
or the power of a drop of water in a rain falling on the ground.
Originally posted by Hydroman
Lol, you don't see what I'm saying. Do you understand how life evolves on a planet? The conditions have to be right for it to be there. The conditions were right for our planet...voila...here we are. The conditions were not right for Jupiter, as far as we know, and voila, no life there (again as far as we know).
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Explain why everything I've stated is the way it is, then. What proof do you have that can explain the existence of everything on this Earth being specifically set for life to thrive?
EXACTLY, therefore god did it. Right?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
That quote in itself is what I find hard for people to just go with. The Earth was right for life, and so we just appeared? Out of nowhere? That cannot settle with me.
What I've learned in my searching is that when I can't explain something, I don't then assume a god must have done it. Ancient people made that mistake over and over in the past.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The point I'm trying to bring out is that just by looking at the Earth and its complex design, one will wonder how it came to be. How it just happened to be in this perfect orbit with a perfect distance away from the Sun to sustain life; how each necessity of Man was provided for them (Food, Water, Shelter).
No scientist who has studied this has EVER said humans just appeared here. That's what religions, like yours, says. Scientists think that life evolved here over millions and millions of years. Humanity is just another stage of an evolving being. But say that tomororw evolution is proved 100% wrong, it still doesn't prove a god did any of this. And, evolution doesn't say how life got started, it just proves the diversity of it. How life got started here is still a mystery. Let me guess, god did it because no one can explain it yet?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
What you're saying is that due to Earth's perfect position, Humanity itself just appeared.
What kinds of books do you trust? Only the bible? What I'm talking about is a book about a man who has done thorough research into ancient civilizations. He found their monument sites, studied them and figured out what they were doing. There are several places around the globe that have these types of sites. You trust whatever you want, don't let me sway you.
Originally posted by sting130u
I am afraid it is you who is trolling. And what makes you believe one book and not another? I am open to all your insights but your not making a case here. You telling me to trust one book and not another. I am not dumb, and won't be swayed from my faith ever again. I am done with you. Have a gnight hydroman.
Originally posted by Hydroman
EXACTLY, therefore god did it. Right?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
That quote in itself is what I find hard for people to just go with. The Earth was right for life, and so we just appeared? Out of nowhere? That cannot settle with me.
What I've learned in my searching is that when I can't explain something, I don't then assume a god must have done it. Ancient people made that mistake over and over in the past.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The point I'm trying to bring out is that just by looking at the Earth and its complex design, one will wonder how it came to be. How it just happened to be in this perfect orbit with a perfect distance away from the Sun to sustain life; how each necessity of Man was provided for them (Food, Water, Shelter).
No scientist who has studied this has EVER said humans just appeared here. That's what religions, like yours, says. Scientists think that life evolved here over millions and millions of years. Humanity is just another stage of an evolving being. But say that tomororw evolution is proved 100% wrong, it still doesn't prove a god did any of this. And, evolution doesn't say how life got started, it just proves the diversity of it. How life got started here is still a mystery. Let me guess, god did it because no one can explain it yet?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
What you're saying is that due to Earth's perfect position, Humanity itself just appeared.edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: spelling
THAT is the ultimate question. What did all this? There are ideas, but who knows if any are right? Again, because I can't explain something, I don't insert any god in the picture. We may not be able to explain it right now, but who is to say that 100 years from now someone won't figure it out?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
My question is this. If God didn't do this, then what did?
I don't know if there's a reason to it or not.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
You're suggesting that everything just appeared for no apparent reason.
Then keep on believing if that's all you need. I care about what is true, and I'm not going to insert god into every gap.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The points I've suggested are more than enough to prove that a God exists, to me.
True, I don't know what happened at the beginning. Therefore, god...right? Don't make the same mistake the ancients did. That's all I'm saying.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
And the theory of evolution suggests that a species evolved. For something to evolve, it -has- to have a beginning. That beginning is what the question is directed to, for the evolutionists.
I don't know if there is a theory for where everything came from. As far as I know, scientists believe that something happened, such as a big bang, and from that point all galaxies, stars, planets, etc. came from that. Now where the original material came from, I don't think anybody has a clue yet. I'm sure you would say, "God" and that's fine. I do not believe that though...
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
For those scientists who have never suggested that "Humans" just appeared, they are still indirectly suggesting that something did just appear; just like what I stated above, for something to evolve, it has to have a beginning.
Originally posted by Hydroman
THAT is the ultimate question. What did all this? There are ideas, but who knows if any are right? Again, because I can't explain something, I don't insert any god in the picture. We may not be able to explain it right now, but who is to say that 100 years from now someone won't figure it out?
Originally posted by Hydroman
Then keep on believing if that's all you need. I care about what is true, and I'm not going to insert god into every gap.
Originally posted by Hydroman
True, I don't know what happened at the beginning. Therefore, god...right? Don't make the same mistake the ancients did. That's all I'm saying.
If you understood evolution, why would you ask why chimps still exist? You would know why....
Originally posted by sting130u
Not ignorant at all. I understand how evolution works. Just too many questions left unanswered. And no I trust in alot of books, but I form my own opinion. You know, like people should.
Being the most common answer does not make it the most logical answer.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The most logical, or rather, common answer, due to the majority of this world in the past and the present, would be to believe that an Omnipotent being is what orchestrated this divine Universe. Such a powerful creation is usually associated with a greater Creator.
If god is real, and is active in this world, can we detect him/her/it in a clear and concise manner? Just curious.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
I also care about what is true. Who's to say that God -isn't- the answer, and that all of these other conclusions are false?
Not sure I'm following you here. Do you think the sun is pulled across the sky by a god riding in a chariot? Do you think earthquakes and floods come from a vengeful god, and not natural actions and reactions of the earth? Do you think Zeus is up there throwing down lightning bolts?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Why assume that these "ancients" were false? Even then, who's to say that they were the ones that properly followed the Creator? People have been misguided in the past, and people will continue to be misguided in the future. On the contrary, the same can be said for the rightly guided individuals. There are people like that now, in the past, and will be in the future.
These questions often times lead one to desire to believe in a god. There have been and still are many different beliefs in gods because of this. We do not want to cease existing, therefore we must come up with a way to keep existing, life after death.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Man must think on how he came into being, what the purpose of his life is, why he will die and what awaits him after death. He must question how he, himself, and the whole universe came into existence and how they continue to exist. While doing this, he must relieve himself of all constraints and prejudices.
To say that someone will cease to exist after Death is rather inane.
Originally posted by Hydroman
1 - Being the most common answer does not make it the most logical answer.
2 - If god is real, and is active in this world, can we detect him/her/it in a clear and concise manner? Just curious.
3 - Not sure I'm following you here. Do you think the sun is pulled across the sky by a god riding in a chariot? Do you think earthquakes and floods come from a vengeful god, and not natural actions and reactions of the earth? Do you think Zeus is up there throwing down lightning bolts?
4 - These questions often times lead one to desire to believe in a god. There have been and still are many different beliefs in gods because of this. We do not want to cease existing, therefore we must come up with a way to keep existing, life after death.
edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)
There is one story of a Scholar and an Atheist. Long ago, an Atheist did not believe the existence of God. He asked a scholar for a debate about the existence of God. Among the questions are: “Does God exist?” and “If God exists then where is God?”
Then they decided when and where the debate takes place.
The Atheist and the villagers were waiting for the scholar, but the scholar did not come right on time. When the Atheist and the villagers thought that the scholar will not come for the debate, then the scholar showed up.
“I am sorry to keep you waiting for so long. But the rain is so heavy so the river floods. The bridge drifted away so I could not cross it. Thank God suddenly there was a big tree fell down. Then the branches cut out by themselves so the trunk was branch-less. After that the trunk was cut and a hole was created so it became a boat. So I used the boat and crossed the river,” said the scholar.
The Atheist and the villagers were laughing. The Atheist said to the villagers, “This scholar is mad. How can a tree became a boat by itself with no one made it? How can a boat exist with no maker who made it?”
The villagers were laughing out loud.
After the people calmed down, the scholar said, “If you believe that the boat could not exist without its maker, then how could you believe the earth, sky, and its contents exist without its creator? Which is the most difficult to make? Making a boat or creating the earth, sky, and its contents?
Hearing that, they realized that they trapped with their own statement.
“Then answer my second question,” said the Atheist. “If God exists, why can’t He be seen? Where is God?” The Atheist thought since he cannot see God then God does not exist.
The scholar slapped the Man’s cheek hardly so the Man felt so much pain.
“Why did you slap me? It’s very painful”
The scholar asked, “There is no pain. I cannot see pain. Where is pain?”
“The pain is here,” the Man pointed his cheek.
“No, I cannot see pain. Do you see the pain?” asked the scholar to the villagers.
The villagers said, “No!”
“So, though we cannot see the pain does not mean that the pain does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.” Said the scholar
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Originally posted by Hydroman
There is one story of a Scholar and an Atheist. Long ago, an Atheist did not believe the existence of God. He asked a scholar for a debate about the existence of God. Among the questions are: “Does God exist?” and “If God exists then where is God?”
Then they decided when and where the debate takes place.
The Atheist and the villagers were waiting for the scholar, but the scholar did not come right on time. When the Atheist and the villagers thought that the scholar will not come for the debate, then the scholar showed up.
“I am sorry to keep you waiting for so long. But the rain is so heavy so the river floods. The bridge drifted away so I could not cross it. Thank God suddenly there was a big tree fell down. Then the branches cut out by themselves so the trunk was branch-less. After that the trunk was cut and a hole was created so it became a boat. So I used the boat and crossed the river,” said the scholar.
The Atheist and the villagers were laughing. The Atheist said to the villagers, “This scholar is mad. How can a tree became a boat by itself with no one made it? How can a boat exist with no maker who made it?”
The villagers were laughing out loud.
After the people calmed down, the scholar said, “If you believe that the boat could not exist without its maker, then how could you believe the earth, sky, and its contents exist without its creator? Which is the most difficult to make? Making a boat or creating the earth, sky, and its contents?
Hearing that, they realized that they trapped with their own statement.
“Then answer my second question,” said the Atheist. “If God exists, why can’t He be seen? Where is God?” The Atheist thought since he cannot see God then God does not exist.
The scholar slapped the Man’s cheek hardly so the Man felt so much pain.
“Why did you slap me? It’s very painful”
The scholar asked, “There is no pain. I cannot see pain. Where is pain?”
“The pain is here,” the Man pointed his cheek.
“No, I cannot see pain. Do you see the pain?” asked the scholar to the villagers.
The villagers said, “No!”
“So, though we cannot see the pain does not mean that the pain does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.” Said the scholar
If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them.
If it's a simple thing such as the match has its maker, then the universe, far more complex than these gadgets, must have a Maker.
Thank you for this!!!!
No, I mean detect by ANY means. Not just sight.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
2 - For the next quote, are you suggesting that if God cannot be seen, then He does not exist? Because 'seeing' is as clear and concise as anything. If so, it's a rather contradicting statement.
These are not naturally occuring things. If you see a tornado, do you ask, "I wonder who created that?" If lightning strikes a tree in your backyard, do you ask, "Which company made that?"
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
If it's a simple thing such as the match has its maker, then the universe, far more complex than these gadgets, must have a Maker.[/quote]So you're saying that it can be something that occurs naturally because it appears so complex that you can't explain why it's here, so you insert "god did it"?
These questions are asked all the time. What is our purpose if there is no god? Make your own purpose. Now, do animals cease to exist after they die? If so, what is their purpose here? Just to live here for a short time then die? What about insects? Bacteria? I don't think my life has no meaning, nor do I need a god to give my life meaning. Do you?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
4 - It's not that people want to -not- believe that they will cease to exist, but it's more along the lines of, "Why" they would cease to exist, if it were true. Would you not agree that this life would be meaningless and have no purpose if we were born for a set period of time, only to return to the dust for an eternity? I'm sure that's a rational statement to make.
[
Originally posted by Hydroman
These are not naturally occuring things. If you see a tornado, do you ask, "I wonder who created that?" If lightning strikes a tree in your backyard, do you ask, "Which company made that?"
Originally posted by Hydroman
So you're saying that it can be something that occurs naturally because it appears so complex that you can't explain why it's here, so you insert "god did it"?
Right, so you think naturally occuring phenomena can be created by a highter power. That's fine, but it can be explained with physics. No god is necessary to explain it.
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Whether it is natural or not does not conclude that the situation differs. It does not mean that because something is natural, on this Earth without the interference of Man, that it should conclude that it wasn't made by a higher power.
Did you just admit that if you can't exlain something that it is ok to insert "God did it"? Now, do you think that ancient people couldn't somewhat figure out how rain worked?
Originally posted by satron
Precisely. Let's take a look at the Quran, for instance. As you might of heard, there are a countless array of scientific statements that were only recently discovered by man. Take note that this Holy book was discovered More than 1400 years ago.
So you're saying that Allah commands the lightning, that it has NOTHING to do with physics? I'm confused. I mean, you explained the physics of it, then you provided a verse that explains that Allah sends the lightning....which is it? Physics or Allah?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
When the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal, an important phenomenon occurs: electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer object. Hence, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. The same effect occurs when super-cooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and tiny splinters of positively charged ice break off. These lighter positively charged particles are then carried to the upper part of the cloud by updrafts.
The hail, falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. We conclude from this that hail is the major factor in producing lightning.
Allah says:
(And thunder glorifies and praises Him, and so do the angels because of His Awe. He sends the thunderbolts, and therewith He strikes whom He wills, yet they (disbelievers) dispute about Allah. And He is Mighty in strength and Severe in punishment.) (13:13)
How is it explained that scientific discoveries that were only recently discovered were apart of the Quran, 1400 years ago? The Bible itself also has numoerous amounts of scientific proof that can strengthen one's faith more than before.
Originally posted by Hydroman
So you're saying that Allah commands the lightning, that it has NOTHING to do with physics? I'm confused. I mean, you explained the physics of it, then you provided a verse that explains that Allah sends the lightning....which is it? Physics or Allah?
Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
When the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal, an important phenomenon occurs: electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer object. Hence, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. The same effect occurs when super-cooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and tiny splinters of positively charged ice break off. These lighter positively charged particles are then carried to the upper part of the cloud by updrafts.
The hail, falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. We conclude from this that hail is the major factor in producing lightning.
Allah says:
(And thunder glorifies and praises Him, and so do the angels because of His Awe. He sends the thunderbolts, and therewith He strikes whom He wills, yet they (disbelievers) dispute about Allah. And He is Mighty in strength and Severe in punishment.) (13:13)
How is it explained that scientific discoveries that were only recently discovered were apart of the Quran, 1400 years ago? The Bible itself also has numoerous amounts of scientific proof that can strengthen one's faith more than before.
edit on 22-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)