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God exists because .....

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posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by diamondsmith
There are powers beyond your understanding.
Do you understand them?


Originally posted by diamondsmith
Like the power of a leaf falling on the ground.

or the power of a drop of water in a rain falling on the ground.
What power would that be? Gravity?




posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Explain why everything I've stated is the way it is, then. What proof do you have that can explain the existence of everything on this Earth being specifically set for life to thrive?
Lol, you don't see what I'm saying. Do you understand how life evolves on a planet? The conditions have to be right for it to be there. The conditions were right for our planet...voila...here we are. The conditions were not right for Jupiter, as far as we know, and voila, no life there (again as far as we know).

That quote in itself is what I find hard for people to just go with. The Earth was right for life, and so we just appeared? Out of nowhere? That cannot settle with me.

The point I'm trying to bring out is that just by looking at the Earth and its complex design, one will wonder how it came to be. How it just happened to be in this perfect orbit with a perfect distance away from the Sun to sustain life; how each necessity of Man was provided for them (Food, Water, Shelter).

What you're saying is that due to Earth's perfect position, Humanity itself just appeared. What I'm trying to figure out is -why-, or rather, -how- Earth was perfectly suitable for life to thrive. If any other planets in this Universe are in the same situation Earth is, then I direct my question to that as well. How those distant planets would have whatever environment they have for life to thrive. There is no way that it just -appeared-, there must of been some intercession going on.
edit on 21-3-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: Grammar



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
That quote in itself is what I find hard for people to just go with. The Earth was right for life, and so we just appeared? Out of nowhere? That cannot settle with me.
EXACTLY, therefore god did it. Right?


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The point I'm trying to bring out is that just by looking at the Earth and its complex design, one will wonder how it came to be. How it just happened to be in this perfect orbit with a perfect distance away from the Sun to sustain life; how each necessity of Man was provided for them (Food, Water, Shelter).
What I've learned in my searching is that when I can't explain something, I don't then assume a god must have done it. Ancient people made that mistake over and over in the past.


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
What you're saying is that due to Earth's perfect position, Humanity itself just appeared.
No scientist who has studied this has EVER said humans just appeared here. That's what religions, like yours, says. Scientists think that life evolved here over millions and millions of years. Humanity is just another stage of an evolving being. But say that tomororw evolution is proved 100% wrong, it still doesn't prove a god did any of this. And, evolution doesn't say how life got started, it just proves the diversity of it. How life got started here is still a mystery. Let me guess, god did it because no one can explain it yet?
edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: spelling



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


I am afraid it is you who is trolling. And what makes you believe one book and not another? I am open to all your insights but your not making a case here. You telling me to trust one book and not another. I am not dumb, and won't be swayed from my faith ever again. I am done with you. Have a gnight hydroman.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by sting130u
I am afraid it is you who is trolling. And what makes you believe one book and not another? I am open to all your insights but your not making a case here. You telling me to trust one book and not another. I am not dumb, and won't be swayed from my faith ever again. I am done with you. Have a gnight hydroman.
What kinds of books do you trust? Only the bible? What I'm talking about is a book about a man who has done thorough research into ancient civilizations. He found their monument sites, studied them and figured out what they were doing. There are several places around the globe that have these types of sites. You trust whatever you want, don't let me sway you.

The reason I asked if you were trolling is because of how you described evolution. There are trolls who know how it works, but they try to mess with others by asking the same questions you asked. So, since you are not trolling, I would be correct in my assessment that you are ignorant of how evolution works. I'm not trying to be mean, just stating a fact.
edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
That quote in itself is what I find hard for people to just go with. The Earth was right for life, and so we just appeared? Out of nowhere? That cannot settle with me.
EXACTLY, therefore god did it. Right?


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The point I'm trying to bring out is that just by looking at the Earth and its complex design, one will wonder how it came to be. How it just happened to be in this perfect orbit with a perfect distance away from the Sun to sustain life; how each necessity of Man was provided for them (Food, Water, Shelter).
What I've learned in my searching is that when I can't explain something, I don't then assume a god must have done it. Ancient people made that mistake over and over in the past.


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
What you're saying is that due to Earth's perfect position, Humanity itself just appeared.
No scientist who has studied this has EVER said humans just appeared here. That's what religions, like yours, says. Scientists think that life evolved here over millions and millions of years. Humanity is just another stage of an evolving being. But say that tomororw evolution is proved 100% wrong, it still doesn't prove a god did any of this. And, evolution doesn't say how life got started, it just proves the diversity of it. How life got started here is still a mystery. Let me guess, god did it because no one can explain it yet?
edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: spelling


My question is this. If God didn't do this, then what did? You're suggesting that everything just appeared for no apparent reason. The points I've suggested are more than enough to prove that a God exists, to me. And the theory of evolution suggests that a species evolved. For something to evolve, it -has- to have a beginning. That beginning is what the question is directed to, for the evolutionists. For those scientists who have never suggested that "Humans" just appeared, they are still indirectly suggesting that something did just appear; just like what I stated above, for something to evolve, it has to have a beginning.

P.S This is a healthy debate. I am not angry or anything. I like a healthy debate. Keep it up, Hydro.
edit on 21-3-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 07:42 PM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
My question is this. If God didn't do this, then what did?
THAT is the ultimate question. What did all this? There are ideas, but who knows if any are right? Again, because I can't explain something, I don't insert any god in the picture. We may not be able to explain it right now, but who is to say that 100 years from now someone won't figure it out?

The egyptians thought that the sun moved across the sky because a god pulled it while riding in his chariot. Today, we can explain why the sun appears to move across the sky. There are a multitude of examples like this, where ancient people attributed something to a god, that we can now explain. Do you see what I'm saying?


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
You're suggesting that everything just appeared for no apparent reason.
I don't know if there's a reason to it or not.


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The points I've suggested are more than enough to prove that a God exists, to me.
Then keep on believing if that's all you need. I care about what is true, and I'm not going to insert god into every gap.


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
And the theory of evolution suggests that a species evolved. For something to evolve, it -has- to have a beginning. That beginning is what the question is directed to, for the evolutionists.
True, I don't know what happened at the beginning. Therefore, god...right? Don't make the same mistake the ancients did. That's all I'm saying.


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
For those scientists who have never suggested that "Humans" just appeared, they are still indirectly suggesting that something did just appear; just like what I stated above, for something to evolve, it has to have a beginning.
I don't know if there is a theory for where everything came from. As far as I know, scientists believe that something happened, such as a big bang, and from that point all galaxies, stars, planets, etc. came from that. Now where the original material came from, I don't think anybody has a clue yet. I'm sure you would say, "God" and that's fine. I do not believe that though...

I agree, I really enjoy talking about this, because I want people to make me think, and I want to make people think as well.
edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Not ignorant at all. I understand how evolution works. Just too many questions left unanswered. And no I trust in alot of books, but I form my own opinion. You know, like people should.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
THAT is the ultimate question. What did all this? There are ideas, but who knows if any are right? Again, because I can't explain something, I don't insert any god in the picture. We may not be able to explain it right now, but who is to say that 100 years from now someone won't figure it out?


The most logical, or rather, common answer, due to the majority of this world in the past and the present, would be to believe that an Omnipotent being is what orchestrated this divine Universe. Such a powerful creation is usually associated with a greater Creator.


Originally posted by Hydroman
Then keep on believing if that's all you need. I care about what is true, and I'm not going to insert god into every gap.

I also care about what is true. Who's to say that God -isn't- the answer, and that all of these other conclusions are false?




Originally posted by Hydroman
True, I don't know what happened at the beginning. Therefore, god...right? Don't make the same mistake the ancients did. That's all I'm saying.

Why assume that these "ancients" were false? Even then, who's to say that they were the ones that properly followed the Creator? People have been misguided in the past, and people will continue to be misguided in the future. On the contrary, the same can be said for the rightly guided individuals. There are people like that now, in the past, and will be in the future.

Man must think on how he came into being, what the purpose of his life is, why he will die and what awaits him after death. He must question how he, himself, and the whole universe came into existence and how they continue to exist. While doing this, he must relieve himself of all constraints and prejudices.

To say that someone will cease to exist after Death is rather inane.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by sting130u
Not ignorant at all. I understand how evolution works. Just too many questions left unanswered. And no I trust in alot of books, but I form my own opinion. You know, like people should.
If you understood evolution, why would you ask why chimps still exist? You would know why....



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
The most logical, or rather, common answer, due to the majority of this world in the past and the present, would be to believe that an Omnipotent being is what orchestrated this divine Universe. Such a powerful creation is usually associated with a greater Creator.
Being the most common answer does not make it the most logical answer.


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
I also care about what is true. Who's to say that God -isn't- the answer, and that all of these other conclusions are false?
If god is real, and is active in this world, can we detect him/her/it in a clear and concise manner? Just curious.



Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Why assume that these "ancients" were false? Even then, who's to say that they were the ones that properly followed the Creator? People have been misguided in the past, and people will continue to be misguided in the future. On the contrary, the same can be said for the rightly guided individuals. There are people like that now, in the past, and will be in the future.
Not sure I'm following you here. Do you think the sun is pulled across the sky by a god riding in a chariot? Do you think earthquakes and floods come from a vengeful god, and not natural actions and reactions of the earth? Do you think Zeus is up there throwing down lightning bolts?


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Man must think on how he came into being, what the purpose of his life is, why he will die and what awaits him after death. He must question how he, himself, and the whole universe came into existence and how they continue to exist. While doing this, he must relieve himself of all constraints and prejudices.

To say that someone will cease to exist after Death is rather inane.
These questions often times lead one to desire to believe in a god. There have been and still are many different beliefs in gods because of this. We do not want to cease existing, therefore we must come up with a way to keep existing, life after death.


edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
1 - Being the most common answer does not make it the most logical answer.

2 - If god is real, and is active in this world, can we detect him/her/it in a clear and concise manner? Just curious.


3 - Not sure I'm following you here. Do you think the sun is pulled across the sky by a god riding in a chariot? Do you think earthquakes and floods come from a vengeful god, and not natural actions and reactions of the earth? Do you think Zeus is up there throwing down lightning bolts?

4 - These questions often times lead one to desire to believe in a god. There have been and still are many different beliefs in gods because of this. We do not want to cease existing, therefore we must come up with a way to keep existing, life after death.


edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)


1 - To the first quote you answered, that is the reason as to why I put "or". I didn't correlate it to one another.

2 - For the next quote, are you suggesting that if God cannot be seen, then He does not exist? Because 'seeing' is as clear and concise as anything. If so, it's a rather contradicting statement.

Here is a story that was told by a few articles in the past. *Note that I posted the point of the story, rather than the intro to it.*



There is one story of a Scholar and an Atheist. Long ago, an Atheist did not believe the existence of God. He asked a scholar for a debate about the existence of God. Among the questions are: “Does God exist?” and “If God exists then where is God?”

Then they decided when and where the debate takes place.

The Atheist and the villagers were waiting for the scholar, but the scholar did not come right on time. When the Atheist and the villagers thought that the scholar will not come for the debate, then the scholar showed up.

“I am sorry to keep you waiting for so long. But the rain is so heavy so the river floods. The bridge drifted away so I could not cross it. Thank God suddenly there was a big tree fell down. Then the branches cut out by themselves so the trunk was branch-less. After that the trunk was cut and a hole was created so it became a boat. So I used the boat and crossed the river,” said the scholar.

The Atheist and the villagers were laughing. The Atheist said to the villagers, “This scholar is mad. How can a tree became a boat by itself with no one made it? How can a boat exist with no maker who made it?”

The villagers were laughing out loud.

After the people calmed down, the scholar said, “If you believe that the boat could not exist without its maker, then how could you believe the earth, sky, and its contents exist without its creator? Which is the most difficult to make? Making a boat or creating the earth, sky, and its contents?

Hearing that, they realized that they trapped with their own statement.

“Then answer my second question,” said the Atheist. “If God exists, why can’t He be seen? Where is God?” The Atheist thought since he cannot see God then God does not exist.

The scholar slapped the Man’s cheek hardly so the Man felt so much pain.

“Why did you slap me? It’s very painful”

The scholar asked, “There is no pain. I cannot see pain. Where is pain?”

“The pain is here,” the Man pointed his cheek.

“No, I cannot see pain. Do you see the pain?” asked the scholar to the villagers.

The villagers said, “No!”

“So, though we cannot see the pain does not mean that the pain does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.” Said the scholar


If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them.

If it's a simple thing such as the match has its maker, then the universe, far more complex than these gadgets, must have a Maker.

3 - For the quote about Sun-god reference, I was referring to how these ancients could be wrong to believe or follow God in the wrong manner. Acts such as honor-killing, sacrificial ceremonies and the like to show their submission to a God or Gods. For a group of people to unjustly follow a Creator does not signify that they have made a mistake into believing a God exists; rather, they made the mistake of worshiping that existence in an inane way.

4 - It's not that people want to -not- believe that they will cease to exist, but it's more along the lines of, "Why" they would cease to exist, if it were true. Would you not agree that this life would be meaningless and have no purpose if we were born for a set period of time, only to return to the dust for an eternity? I'm sure that's a rational statement to make.

edit on 21-3-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-3-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 12:17 AM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


No I don't understand why people would draw a parallel to chimps. Clearly we did not evolve from them. Which line would have taken such a jump to evolve into what we are today.

Not only that, but why is it ONLY humans that have evolved into speaking, creative, destructive, free thinking, literate species.

Why do animals act on instinct while humans may have an instinct but act on free will?

Why is a creator such a hard thing to grasp? With billions and billions of years of becoming there has to be some kind of possibly that it took a divine spiritual being to come up with such a perfect paradise that would sustain life so perfectly. It's too complex, and the mathematical equations are just too phenomenal to say it "just happened".

Why is it humans are born with a natural hard wired program that leans towards a god, or leaves us to question if there is a god.

Why haven't any other animals evolved into being able to speak (not mimic).

I'd rather live my live believing there is a God rather than thinking I was here and them I am gone. My mind seems too complex for that. I do have a soul, something in me makes me me. I didn't just come to be. I have a purpose on this planet.

I read plenty of books, and have read plenty more. I do not trust them, even the Bible. I know that the Bible has been altered, and unless I learn ancient hebrew and touch the original scrolls myself, I can only use the message.

Take for example Book of Genesis. It states that God said let there be light, and there was, and it was good. But later after it states He made the stars and sun and the moon. Where did the light come from BEFORE the sun?

Or, the earth being filled with void. Void meaning emptiness, and dark. This was not the creation of earth, but the darkness of earth. Maybe the meteor that killed the dinosaurs? The object earth was here before the creation of the heavens and of man and animals. Which answers where dinosaurs came from. I believe God had a purpose for dinosaurs. So His plan could be perfect and humans would battle over oil for fuel. I don't know. I know there are alot of questions to be answered, on every aspect in life. As curious as I am, I will never know the truth until I come before my creator. And I believe the truth will be love and light. If not, I want nothing to do with evil, hate and darkness.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX

Originally posted by Hydroman




There is one story of a Scholar and an Atheist. Long ago, an Atheist did not believe the existence of God. He asked a scholar for a debate about the existence of God. Among the questions are: “Does God exist?” and “If God exists then where is God?”

Then they decided when and where the debate takes place.

The Atheist and the villagers were waiting for the scholar, but the scholar did not come right on time. When the Atheist and the villagers thought that the scholar will not come for the debate, then the scholar showed up.

“I am sorry to keep you waiting for so long. But the rain is so heavy so the river floods. The bridge drifted away so I could not cross it. Thank God suddenly there was a big tree fell down. Then the branches cut out by themselves so the trunk was branch-less. After that the trunk was cut and a hole was created so it became a boat. So I used the boat and crossed the river,” said the scholar.

The Atheist and the villagers were laughing. The Atheist said to the villagers, “This scholar is mad. How can a tree became a boat by itself with no one made it? How can a boat exist with no maker who made it?”

The villagers were laughing out loud.

After the people calmed down, the scholar said, “If you believe that the boat could not exist without its maker, then how could you believe the earth, sky, and its contents exist without its creator? Which is the most difficult to make? Making a boat or creating the earth, sky, and its contents?

Hearing that, they realized that they trapped with their own statement.

“Then answer my second question,” said the Atheist. “If God exists, why can’t He be seen? Where is God?” The Atheist thought since he cannot see God then God does not exist.

The scholar slapped the Man’s cheek hardly so the Man felt so much pain.

“Why did you slap me? It’s very painful”

The scholar asked, “There is no pain. I cannot see pain. Where is pain?”

“The pain is here,” the Man pointed his cheek.

“No, I cannot see pain. Do you see the pain?” asked the scholar to the villagers.

The villagers said, “No!”

“So, though we cannot see the pain does not mean that the pain does not exist. So is the God. Just because we cannot see the God does not mean that God does not exist. Though we cannot see Him, but we can see His creations.” Said the scholar


If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them.

If it's a simple thing such as the match has its maker, then the universe, far more complex than these gadgets, must have a Maker.



Thank you for this!!!!



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:52 AM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
2 - For the next quote, are you suggesting that if God cannot be seen, then He does not exist? Because 'seeing' is as clear and concise as anything. If so, it's a rather contradicting statement.
No, I mean detect by ANY means. Not just sight.



Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
If we take a look to the planes, cars, TVs, etc, it would be irrational if we say that all exist by themselves. There must be people who make them.
These are not naturally occuring things. If you see a tornado, do you ask, "I wonder who created that?" If lightning strikes a tree in your backyard, do you ask, "Which company made that?"


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
If it's a simple thing such as the match has its maker, then the universe, far more complex than these gadgets, must have a Maker.[/quote]So you're saying that it can be something that occurs naturally because it appears so complex that you can't explain why it's here, so you insert "god did it"?


Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
4 - It's not that people want to -not- believe that they will cease to exist, but it's more along the lines of, "Why" they would cease to exist, if it were true. Would you not agree that this life would be meaningless and have no purpose if we were born for a set period of time, only to return to the dust for an eternity? I'm sure that's a rational statement to make.
These questions are asked all the time. What is our purpose if there is no god? Make your own purpose. Now, do animals cease to exist after they die? If so, what is their purpose here? Just to live here for a short time then die? What about insects? Bacteria? I don't think my life has no meaning, nor do I need a god to give my life meaning. Do you?
[



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman
These are not naturally occuring things. If you see a tornado, do you ask, "I wonder who created that?" If lightning strikes a tree in your backyard, do you ask, "Which company made that?"


Whether it is natural or not does not conclude that the situation differs. It does not mean that because something is natural, on this Earth without the interference of Man, that it should conclude that it wasn't made by a higher power.


Originally posted by Hydroman
So you're saying that it can be something that occurs naturally because it appears so complex that you can't explain why it's here, so you insert "god did it"?

Precisely. Let's take a look at the Quran, for instance. As you might of heard, there are a countless array of scientific statements that were only recently discovered by man. Take note that this Holy book was discovered More than 1400 years ago.

(And it is He Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His Mercy (rain). Till when they have carried a heavy-laden cloud, We drive it to a land that is dead, then We cause water (rain) to descend thereon. Then We produce every kind of fruit therewith. Similarly, We shall raise up the dead, so that you may remember or take heed.) (7:57)

Allah says:

(And We send the winds fertilizing (to fill heavily the clouds with water), then cause the water (rain) to descend from the sky, and We give it to you to drink, and it is not you who are the owners of its stores [i.e. to give water to whom you like or to withhold it from whom you like].) (15:22)

Modern science has affirmed the scientific points mentioned in this verse of the Quran. The winds carry water particles which are rich in salt up into the atmosphere; these particles which are called 'aerosols' function as water traps and form cloud drops by collecting around the water vapor themselves.

The clouds are formed from water vapor that condenses around the salt crystals or dust particles in the air. Because the water droplets in these clouds are very small (with a diameter between 0.01 and 0.02 mm), the clouds are suspended in the air, and spread across the sky. Thus, the sky is covered in clouds. The water particles that surround salt crystals and dust particles thicken and form raindrops, so drops that become heavier than the air leave the clouds and start to fall to the ground as rain. Allah says:

(See you not that Allah drives the clouds gently, then joins them together, then makes them into a heap of layers, and you see the rain comes forth from between them; and He sends down from the sky hail (like) mountains, (or there are in the heaven mountains of hail from where He sends down hail), and strikes therewith whom He wills, and averts it from whom He wills. The vivid flash of its (clouds) lightening nearly blinds the sight.) (24:43)

Picture of a Cumulonimbus Cloud


Rain clouds are formed and shaped according to definite systems and stages. The formation stages of cumulonimbus -a type of rain cloud- are:


•1st stage: Being driven along: Clouds are carried along, that is, they are driven along, by the wind.

•2nd stage: Joining: Then, small clouds (cumulus clouds) driven along by the wind join together, forming a larger cloud.

•3rd stage: Stacking: When the small clouds join together, updrafts within the larger cloud increase. The updrafts near the centre of the cloud are stronger than those near the edges. These updrafts cause the cloud body to grow vertically, so the cloud is stacked up . This vertical growth causes the cloud body to stretch into cooler regions of the atmosphere, where drops of water and hail formulate and begin to grow larger and larger. When these drops of water and hail become too heavy for the updrafts to support them, they begin to fall from the cloud as rain, hail, etc.

A cloud becomes electrified as hail falls through a region in the cloud of super-cooled droplets and ice crystals. As liquid droplets collide with a hailstone, they freeze on contact and release latent heat. This keeps the surface of the hailstone warmer than that of the surrounding ice crystals.



(a) The negative charge concentrated at the bottom of the cloud becomes large enough to overcome the air's resistance and develops a «leader» pointing towards the ground.
(b) An upward flow of positive charges form the ground concentrates elevated points.
(c). The downward flow of negative charges meets the upward flow of positive charges and a strong electric current the upward flow of positive charges and a strong electric current known as return stroke carries the positive charges into the cloud.


edit on 22-3-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: Grammar



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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When the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal, an important phenomenon occurs: electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer object. Hence, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. The same effect occurs when super-cooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and tiny splinters of positively charged ice break off. These lighter positively charged particles are then carried to the upper part of the cloud by updrafts.

The hail, falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. We conclude from this that hail is the major factor in producing lightning.

Allah says:

(And thunder glorifies and praises Him, and so do the angels because of His Awe. He sends the thunderbolts, and therewith He strikes whom He wills, yet they (disbelievers) dispute about Allah. And He is Mighty in strength and Severe in punishment.) (13:13)

How is it explained that scientific discoveries that were only recently discovered were apart of the Quran, 1400 years ago? The Bible itself also has numoerous amounts of scientific proof that can strengthen one's faith more than before.

edit on 22-3-2012 by XxForgottenLegendxX because: Grammar



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
Whether it is natural or not does not conclude that the situation differs. It does not mean that because something is natural, on this Earth without the interference of Man, that it should conclude that it wasn't made by a higher power.
Right, so you think naturally occuring phenomena can be created by a highter power. That's fine, but it can be explained with physics. No god is necessary to explain it.


Originally posted by satron
Precisely. Let's take a look at the Quran, for instance. As you might of heard, there are a countless array of scientific statements that were only recently discovered by man. Take note that this Holy book was discovered More than 1400 years ago.
Did you just admit that if you can't exlain something that it is ok to insert "God did it"? Now, do you think that ancient people couldn't somewhat figure out how rain worked?


edit on 22-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
When the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal, an important phenomenon occurs: electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer object. Hence, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. The same effect occurs when super-cooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and tiny splinters of positively charged ice break off. These lighter positively charged particles are then carried to the upper part of the cloud by updrafts.

The hail, falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. We conclude from this that hail is the major factor in producing lightning.

Allah says:

(And thunder glorifies and praises Him, and so do the angels because of His Awe. He sends the thunderbolts, and therewith He strikes whom He wills, yet they (disbelievers) dispute about Allah. And He is Mighty in strength and Severe in punishment.) (13:13)

How is it explained that scientific discoveries that were only recently discovered were apart of the Quran, 1400 years ago? The Bible itself also has numoerous amounts of scientific proof that can strengthen one's faith more than before.
So you're saying that Allah commands the lightning, that it has NOTHING to do with physics? I'm confused. I mean, you explained the physics of it, then you provided a verse that explains that Allah sends the lightning....which is it? Physics or Allah?
edit on 22-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by XxForgottenLegendxX
When the hailstone comes in contact with an ice crystal, an important phenomenon occurs: electrons flow from the colder object toward the warmer object. Hence, the hailstone becomes negatively charged. The same effect occurs when super-cooled droplets come in contact with a hailstone and tiny splinters of positively charged ice break off. These lighter positively charged particles are then carried to the upper part of the cloud by updrafts.

The hail, falls towards the bottom of the cloud, thus the lower part of the cloud becomes negatively charged. These negative charges are then discharged as lightning. We conclude from this that hail is the major factor in producing lightning.

Allah says:

(And thunder glorifies and praises Him, and so do the angels because of His Awe. He sends the thunderbolts, and therewith He strikes whom He wills, yet they (disbelievers) dispute about Allah. And He is Mighty in strength and Severe in punishment.) (13:13)

How is it explained that scientific discoveries that were only recently discovered were apart of the Quran, 1400 years ago? The Bible itself also has numoerous amounts of scientific proof that can strengthen one's faith more than before.
So you're saying that Allah commands the lightning, that it has NOTHING to do with physics? I'm confused. I mean, you explained the physics of it, then you provided a verse that explains that Allah sends the lightning....which is it? Physics or Allah?
edit on 22-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)


I'm afraid you're mixing what isn't needed. Allah is the creator, God. He sends down the Lightning, and commands it what he wills. You're saying that because Allah sends down the lightning, that the physics that explains it is null and void, all because of the fact that it was mentioned that Allah brought it down. A statement that is impulsively said.

Also, there is another Quranic quote in a previous post of mine mentioning about the cloud's scientific attribute, if you missed it. And I'm curious as to what you think about how these proofs that were mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago were available to the people, when only recently these things were discovered?



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