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UFOS and Flying Saucers and 40+plus years of Ufology - Stan Friedman.

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posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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I have to say a good story always seems to grow in direct proportion to the number of tellings it gets.....
Stan brought a lot of stuff to respectability just by having the credentials that the debunkers couldnt besmirch.
His work for the technical side he has proclaimed was in many ways successful, rather than a failure...however, from a proof of pricipal to a full working structure may take mankind many decades.....
Sure we have proved the principal of atomic propulsion, but do not have matching tech to augment the rest of the requirements for space flight.......Much progress made in the fifties is still classified and un known in the outside world......even more has come to light since.....
From the interrupted journey of the Hills, to the secrets of Roswell, and the open secret of Shag harbour....
The MJ12 docs and much more....what do you want one man to do?
You speak with hindsight which is still not 20/20.....
Stans only statement that unsettles me is that hes in favour of the witholding of information......
This makes me think hes maybe not CIA,but definately an elitist...
This annoys me.




posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
And there are times when its just not wise to share the source of your gold, because others will want to bring you down for it, even kill for it
Same applies to the UFO world

Now, see here you're talking about the same thing I was mentioning in the above comment. Do you think that Stan has been given "top secret" information at some point by experts, authorities, officials, etc., that he will not share with the general public for any number of reasons? Death threats, threats of being cut off from his info source, cut off from his money source, public humiliation, all of the above?

Because, hey, I've been interested although not as actively involved in the field just as long as Friedman, and I have noticed a tendency over the years for paranoia to run rampant, and the shadowy fingers of the government to manipulate some if not all of the primary researchers. It makes sense for the Air Force to think of UFO researchers as potential threats, since they're always poking (although usually not very effectively) around the edges of the Top Secret military world. So it would also make sense for them to control or manipulate them in some way, either with a stick or a carrot.

What's your guess about Friedman?



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Because most of them have a really good story at the beginning based on true experience. Then as time goes on, and fame builds, the AUDIENCE demands more. The first ORIGINAL story is 'old news' The AUDIENCE wants to know what their favorite whistle blower thinks of the Turkey UFO, The Jerusalem UFO, the California Drones

So in order to keep their AUDIENCE entertained and loyal, ALL the whistle blower start to add stuff, embellish stuff and some even make stuff up. Then as time goes on they start to attack each other, rather than pool their material to make it stronger, support each others stories, they shoot down the competition.


I can't remember if it is Joseph Farrell or Richard Dolan who named this disease something like "creeping ufologism". Quite right though, both of you.


Originally posted by zorgon

Greer started out with great intentions, so did Project Camelot... yet today we see where that has ended up.


Greer smothered the Disclosure Project with his insistence on playing politics in 2001, his room emptying ego and followed closely by his inability to use the initial momentum wisely. PC is a burdened with the Cassidy idiot and Jack Burns apparently insatiable need for Jaguar. rofl for which he pays dearly.


Then along comes main stream TV like the History Channel and even National Geographic to muddy the water even more.


The Agency works in neither strange nor mysterious ways.


Originally posted by zorgon

So it is the AUDIENCE that is to blame..


Yeah. uh-huh. Sure.

It takes two to dance the UFO Fraud Tango.


Originally posted by zorgon

Even ATS... ATS was founded on the Alien UFO topic... it is what made them big but I have been watching the ratings... been a serious decline over the past few months...
www.siteworthchecker.com...

IMO its because
A) the old ufologists are all dying off (literally) and there are no new ones with real experiences to take their place

B) the influx of youtube and photoshop hoaxes has increased to a point that people just scream hoax, or photoshop without even looking at it anymore

C) long time posters just get tired of the same old arguments recycling so they just quit and go find some life


D) certain skeptics have gotten so jaded and just pounce on any new member who dares to ask a question that may have been asked many time before.


Look at what constitutes a long thread on ATS today. Therein lies the problem.

The mainstream ATSer is no different than the mainstream average Joe. He is undereducated, incapable of an extended attention span and too lazy to read an entire thread and too dim-witted to do his own, real research. He wants spoon fed entertainment and to see his avatar prominently displayed.

What is absolutely amazing in a time when events are accelerating and could not be more perilous, people about ATS appear bored.

I mean, hell, The Middle East is so damn far away, Google Maps is slow and what's up with all those 'Stan countries anyway?



edit on 20-3-2012 by PulsusMeusGallo because: Farrel to Farrell



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Imtor
I'm starting to smell somethng fishy around him, every time he bashes Lazar and exactly him. We already got that. what's up with it every time?


Well, he doesn't have anything else to take about. There is no evidence worth the attention of an "ex-nuclear physicist" that can be discussed in the same manner that idiotic frauds like Lazar can.

And, he's human. Like most people, he thinks that by putting someone else down, he looks better. In this case he is correct. As anything Lazar related is a 100% fraud, but to beat on it to death and not bring anything else to the table should tell you something. And that something is....that this bloated MORON Stan knows nothing more than you or I do about UFOs or aliens. But if he goes down that road, he wont have an audience. Much like the other side of the fence as well.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


very good points, zorgon, I like how you also think objectively and take neither side as neither can be certain.

The problem even with Stanton is he still adds a dose of belief in his research, while it has to remain in the full meaning of uknown but possible or likely. I've thought and there isn't anything to use aliens as a coverup of anything, nor 'aliens' to be a code name for anything else, it all points to them (govs or some high rank officials) knowing of some other form of intelligent life.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by MainLineThis

Well, Friedman doesn't have anything else to take about. There is no evidence worth the attention of an "ex-nuclear physicist" that can be discussed in the same manner that idiotic frauds like Lazar can.


Good Lord, man, are you serious? Nothing else to talk about?


And, he's human. Like most people, he thinks that by putting someone else down, he looks better. In this case he is correct. As anything Lazar related is a 100% fraud,


Opinion noted. Opinion unstable. Opinion has an exponentially higher probability of being wrong than right.


but to beat on it to death and not bring anything else to the table should tell you something. And that something is....that this bloated MORON Stan knows nothing more than you or I do about UFOs or aliens. But if he goes down that road, he wont have an audience. Much like the other side of the fence as well.


See my post above. Apparently, Friedman knows more about audience satisfaction than you.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


I always enjoy Stanton Friedman's talks. He's good for folks who are just getting into this phenomena --- perhaps his points turn Moot once the individual realizes we are being visited by something other than black ops aircraft.

He is very focused on other charlatans/ufologists - very concerned with the field itself almost rather than disclosing E.T --- which makes perfect sense, considering every single person who has tried to uncover the "Truth" has and always will hit a virtual wall larger than the Great Wall of China.

When trying to research this stuff, you will most likely never get the empirical proof needed. It comes down to making connections and/or having your OWN experiences before one can finally and faithfully say that "We are being visited".

So he does a very good job at collecting History of UFOs --- and in this sense I feel is work is invaluable.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 06:43 PM
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My question to you UFO guys is why would there be so many cases of these abductions and UFO sightings? Lets say they arrived thousands of years ago, (Sumerian artifacts) over those years they would know everything about us, including the wild life. Not to mention why would the UFO's appear at all? If they already studied this planet over hundreds of years, why would they keep keep flying around and abducting us? Maybe a lot of these UFO sightings could be project blue beam?

These UFO's seem to be careless. It just doesn't make any sense why they would reveal themselves so easily, and abduct people. The only thing I could see happening is they're gathering natural resources, but they'res no evidence of this that I'm aware of.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


I agree. Debunkers, skeptics, whatever too.
There's entirely too much exploitation going on where the funding could be pooled for real research, with skeptics keeping the dreamers on a practical leash, while the dreamers lead the way.

There's a problem here, and I really don't see anyone doing much of anything about it.
Everyone is getting fat off a cow that no one has yet to conclusively prove exists.

It sounds an awful lot like religion that way.

It's easier to talk about the devil and take tithes from worshipers than to actually go out there and try DOING something.

If i was Empress ... sigh.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThinkingCap
So he does a very good job at collecting History of UFOs --- and in this sense I feel is work is invaluable.


So does Isaac Koi here at ATS for free



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by nineix
There's entirely too much exploitation going on where the funding could be pooled for real research,


Fine I have some free time, some great connections and a few spare bucks... kindly point me at this 'real research'



Everyone is getting fat off a cow that no one has yet to conclusively prove exists.


Ah! I see... okay scratch that 'real research'


It sounds an awful lot like religion that way.
It's easier to talk about the devil and take tithes from worshipers than to actually go out there and try DOING something.
Well all the assorted Gods and Devils, Angels and Demons of mankind's history have all come from the heavens... therefor by their very nature they are not of this Earth, ergo true ET's

So in Medieval times they called them demons and angles, today we call them grays and Pleaidians.. Same thing. Only when I look at it I tend to look at it from the point that there was SOMETHING all those centuries that triggered peoples visions of these creatures, no matter what you want to call them


If i was Empress ... sigh.


Start with Queen... much easier to do
But while it is true that it's good to be King, it is also true that "The crown wears heavy on the brow"... Its a lot of work if you want to have Vassals... and that dang crown leaves a dent in the forehead, especially in the Vegas heat



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


You do know this is not a "newly uploaded video" right? You can find it in the free documentaries thread and has been discussed numerous times already. Search works well...



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by zorgon
 


You just won't give me a break will you?


I'm pretty sure I outlined one proposal in rough in my first post to this thread.

Lojack victims/experiencers of abduction events. Put them folks on GPS tracker radio collar lock down. I'm not suggesting tracking down abductees with a helicopter and tranq gun, but, volunteers would be nice.
With GPS alone, if a reliable application would be worked out through something as simple as a watch, or piece of jewelry that's worn 24/7, should an abduction event occur with any participating subjects, we have the possibility of data.
Where do these folks when they get got get gone to?
With duration testing over multiple abduction events, when they get got, do they get gone to random locations, a specific location every time, or totally off the grid out of tracking range? Do they even get got or gone anywhere at all?

These are questions that have potential for answers were some funding applied to conduct such a study would be rather nice.

Variations on this approach can take the form of more intensive video monitoring with equipment hardened against EM interference, multispectrum IR/UV recording, remote monitoring to hedge against 'psychic' detection of monitoring researchers by abducting aliens, hidden cameras along side obvious dummy cameras where subject is previously instructed on how to turn 'off' the dummy cameras as hedge against fraudulent action of subject, or phychic puppet control as reported by some abductees.

Even more elaborate setups could engage the use of a purpose built controlled access long term living facility.

According to many reports, young fertile women are especially targeted for abduction events where often processes rape, forced impregnation, and then after a month or three of impregnation forced removal of fetus occurs.
A controlled access facility could be multipurpose as safe refuge against repeat abduction to force removal of fetus once impregnated, as well as monitoring ground.
Certainly the sneaky buggers doing abductions are going to want their baby momma back?
If long term refuge is managed, then, there's a wonderful bouncing baby alien hybrid ti take harmless samples of blood and skin from under controlled documented monitored conditions all for testing.

If kid is normal, then, hmmm. If kid isn't normal, then, hmmm.

Sure, there's going to be the nutjob crazy delusional factor, but, played long enough, and careful enough in selecting candidates for haigh probability repeat abduction based on past related 'performance', as also compared to data already on record for demographic trends occurring with abduction events, then more reliably testable subjects may prove true.

If after all this work and trouble and financing there aint no aliens, keep trying. If after that, there still aint no aliens, then, well, hmmm.

Trick would be to set up a program that is poisoned against sabotage by subjects (like with the dummy cameras), so as to weed out the purely head cases.

this isn't to say that head cases are irrelevant or to dismiss head cases as not being important, for whatever reason they might be important to the subject, but, this proposal is more geared to collecting data on real physical events.

Essentially; camera trap with bait that claims/promises to be a favorite treat.

If there's a technology at work, then, every technology has its limitations. Exploring those limitations to reliably capture abduction attempts/events on video are a step or few away from developing protocol and method for capturing more than just video.

We get a body/captive alien, disclosure just happened.

Forget the .gov and the FOIA. Go out and make your own data happen. If you want to censor or redact yourself after that, then, hey, it's your data.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by Toxicsurf

reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


You do know this is not a "newly uploaded video" right? You can find it in the free documentaries thread and has been discussed numerous times already. Search works well...


Sorry to disappoint video police man, but this video is new and I know the search tool well.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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The problem is always whenever one has camera, the explanation is 'it suddenly stopped working' so it can be a very good excuse to add credibility to a story.

Now after watching the video it is about Friedman's life, ok, not bad to know something more about him but hardly of any use. Whatever has been in Project Blue Book and is more than just description, whatever remains classified, im sure there is something that gives a much clearer picture of what humans are dealing with and with it it won't be the usual same story over and over again.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by Toxicsurf

reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


You do know this is not a "newly uploaded video" right? You can find it in the free documentaries thread and has been discussed numerous times already. Search works well...


Sorry to disappoint video police man, but this video is new and I know the search tool well.

Film by Paul Kimball (Stanton's nephew) RedStar films, 2002...
www.redstarfilmtv.com...

m.imdb.com...
Unless of course its an updated version which isnt mentioned on Kimball's website. Ive no problem being wrong, or half right. But Ive watched the video numerous times, cant currently watch to version you posted til tonight so there is some room for error I guess...



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Double post...
edit on 21-3-2012 by Toxicsurf because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Toxicsurf
 


Points for your endeavours however it is new to this site, now go put your energy into something useful video police man



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Well all the assorted Gods and Devils, Angels and Demons of mankind's history have all come from the heavens... therefor by their very nature they are not of this Earth, ergo true ET's

So in Medieval times they called them demons and angles, today we call them grays and Pleaidians.. Same thing. Only when I look at it I tend to look at it from the point that there was SOMETHING all those centuries that triggered peoples visions of these creatures, no matter what you want to call them


It is these statements and others of similar ilk that beguiles your credibility among people who have alternative historical educations and think outside, yet well within reality, the modern historical box.

I cannot take your correction any further due to the severe and unyielding restrictions of ATS other than to say you know absolutely nothing of Terence McKenna and less about "medieval" times, the mystery beliefs and the shamanic practices.

Sorry.



posted on Mar, 21 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by nineix

[snipped enormous attempt at scientific methodology explanation - sorta]
Forget the .gov and the FOIA. Go out and make your own data happen. If you want to censor or redact yourself after that, then, hey, it's your data.



This brings up a serious question. Why not?

Arguably, the return on investment could be exponential even if the principal is millions of $$$. But no one has met the scientific, professional credentialing and credibility, checks and balances,etc tests or, for that matter, has tried.

The only person I have ever convinced to do this...has disappeared, vanished. He is/was one of dozens who I have counseled who could drop a couple of million, lose it, and never miss it.

It is a very strange phenomenon indeed this apparent lack of interest, funding and effort.



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