posted on Aug, 28 2013 @ 12:39 AM
reply to post by Harte
The word used by Plato for the above is "πέλαγος," which is pelagos which means open sea. You can see it in the quote I
This is true. I pulled pontos from my original quote, which included the entire passage. I saw both words were used, but since pontos is mentioned
first I chose it.
Anyway, when the earth was still believed to be a disk in form, Oceanus was indeed believed to flow around the known world as I have described all
along. Here’s some definitive proof that runs contrary to what you are suggesting. Herodotus may have been skeptical of the concept, but at least he
was able to admit the belief did exist:
"I for my part know of no river Ocean (Okeanus) existing, but I think that Homer or one of the poets who were before him invented the name
and introduced it into his verse."
"For it says that the river produces these effects because it flows from the Ocean (Okeanus), and that the Ocean (Okeanus) flows round the whole
earth." - The History of Herodotus, Book II
"I cannot but laugh when I see numbers of persons drawing maps of the world without having any reason to guide them; making, as they do, the
ocean-stream (Okeanus) to run all round the earth, and the earth itself to be an exact circle, as if described by a pair of compasses."- The
History of Herodotus, Book IV
At the time of Solon, most still believed the earth existed in disk form surrounded by Oceanus. Anaximander, a contemporary of Solon believed in a
variation of this that placed the world atop a cylinder.
The belief in a spherical earth was still a fringe theory at the time of Solon if it existed at all. It was not until Plato's day that many
philosophers were finally starting to buy into the concept, including of course Plato himself. So the possibility that Solon adhered to a theory like
Anaximander's, a theory known to have existed around his time is more than reasonable. Whether Plato recorded a true account as is claimed within the
account, or he drafted a work of fiction, it is either an impressive insight into Solon’s worldview or an impressive insight into Plato’s clever
ability to weave a tall tale.
What is clear is that the Solon of Plato’s account was describing a world very similar to Anaximander’s worldview. And I believe you may be able
to realize this, but are simply reluctant to concede this fact.
You wish to believe that to Solon, an island in the ocean would be seen as "offensive" to Oceanus. That's complete bull, as there are
islands all over the ocean.
Unfortunately you are misrepresenting what I said. Of course they believed there were islands in the ocean, but Atlantis was said to be an island
continent larger than the continents of Libya and Asia combined and hence would have had a tremendous impact on Oceanus. Here is what I actually
”[Oceanus] was believed to be a large unimpeded river populated only with a few small islands. The notion of a large continent sized island
sitting in its midst impeding flow would not mesh with Solon’s worldview.”
"even though you have no way in the world to know whether what Plato wrote even came from Solon."
I wish you would have thought of that argument earlier, I would have completely agreed and that would have been that. But when you suggested that
'I' was "misrepresenting Oceanus here as a belief held by Solon" and I was putting forth MY "personal opinion of Solon's belief in Oceanus" you
gave the impression I was pulling these ideas from thin air. If nothing else comes of this, hopefully you are now willing to acknowledge that Oceanus
was indeed once thought to encircle the known world.
I believe that will be it for me on this specific topic unless others have questions.