Can Machines think?

Originally posted by andersensrm

 

Okay but let me ask you this. We still don't know how life originated. How do we know whilst creating these supercomputers, that there is some kind of limit, like a swarzchild radius, where when you reach that point, the computer takes over, starts making its own code, doing stuff we've never seen. Re-editing its own code, and creating new code for itself, while learning improving. Hypothetically what if we created such a thing.
Is it life?

edit on 20-3-2012 by andersensrm because: sense

There is a cool flick made way back... when computers, still in their infancy, were considered evil. Read the story in the link. If you have time see the film. Proteus: "When are you going to let me out of this box?"

Demon Seed

Originally posted by Indellkoffer
reply to post by andersensrm

 

No, they can't think.

A living organism can deduce things from input without being programmed. Machines aren't capable of deducing things unless you write code for deductions -- and then it'll fail if the imput is ambiguous or out of its experience.

The vast majority of living organisms are driven by instinctual habits and depend on their instincts for survival,for motivation and for breeding,they live from moment to moment and are unable to project themselves into the future...

reply to post by darkbake

There were studies done all the way back to the late 60's that infered that even with continual miniturization and this is before any modern Processors or Highly Advanced Silicon Chips or Super Conductivity....that in order for a true A.I. to be created...and at that time the big thing was the study and duplicaton of the Human Brains Engrams....that a method faster and more flexible than simple electrical conductivity and code must be created to create TRUE ARTIFICIAL SENTIENCE.

A QUANTUM COMPUTER would act very much like although faster because it need not have the delay time of sensory input from our Human Biological Senses....although this does not mean a Biomechanical Quantum Computer could not be created. Human Beings are basicly Biomechanical Sentient Machines that are capable of both many forms of thought as well as being able to do physical feats in inumerable quantities.

A QUANTUM COMPUTER could be designed to be just a very good and fast machine or it could be purposely created to be sentient or ALIVE. SELF AWARENESS is a prerequisite to SENTIENCE but not all things that are ALIVE are SENTIENT.

I am fairly certain several versions of these types of Quantum Sysyems have not only been designed but are functional. What some people may think is shere fantasy is what is called EVERYDAY WORK in some of the deep desert areas of Nevada or Arizona or Utah....also Texas and ESPECIALLY MASS. Home to MIT and some of the Greatest Colleges if not THE BEST COLLEGES and Universities in the World.

I know because it is my home state....lots of things may be tested out in the Desert....but they were mostly designed in Mass. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity
Steven spielberg has a new movie coming out in 2013 called "Robopocalypse" and its about intelligent robots and machines trying to destroy humanity and take over the world.Its based on a book of the same name and considering how much of a genius film maker steven spielberg is and has been for a long time now,it should be a really good movie > www.imdb.com...

reply to post by blocula

What I would like to see is a documentary about how people right now....and this is going on with U.S. Soldiers who have lost limbs but have willingly gone back to Afghanistan in a Fighting capacity....with Bionic Limbs. I used to watch the Six Million Dollar Man when I was a kid and I was impressed with a Kid from my area who was in a local Memorial Day Parade walking....and he had come back from his third tour over there...and at the town party aftrward...showed me his Bionic Foot and ankle which was attached to the remaining part of his leg.

He said it was made out of Titanium and some other Carbon Fiber material but was hooked up to his nervous system in his leg that allowed him to move it instead of just have it flex like a spring. He said it was experimental but was now becoming the norm. It was something else. Split Infinity

Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by blocula
reply to post by intrptr

 

I was just explaining the technological progression from robots,to cyborgs,to androids and androids are machines of human proportions,with super advanced computers for brains,they have thoughts and they are capable of thinking on their own,like C3PO...

Ahh, but I think we are already there on a 3PO level?

other 3POs

These "think". They carry out tasks, are mobile, avoid obstacles and I bet they even beeeeeep! Although 3PO can make hologram projections, fly and interpret the city computer we aren't far behind.

I was at a hospital not too long ago and we were waiting for the elevator. When the door opened there was this big robot sitting there. It had flashing lights on it and spoke to us to please make way or some such. We stood aside and it came out, turned and moved down the hall. I asked my mom to wait a minute and walked next to it. I started saying stuff like. "Robot Emergency Override", "Cancel" . Then I stood in front of it and it stopped. When I got out of the way, it just sat there, blinking. A nurse appeared and told me nicely to lay off and then went back to her station. A bit after it continued down the hall. I was amused. So it was (mostly) controlled by people after all. She later told me it was a "meds" robot, moving from desk to desk with prescribed patient medication in a vault I did't see. It was as big as a janitors cart. There was no "track" on the floor. I like mess in with their "cricket minds."

You ever want to know if you are dealing with a real intelligence or not, just ask it, "But how do you know?"

Or ask it to explain itself (or a statement it makes)... then peel that conversational onion until you're satisfied either way.

A truly thinking machine might use an adaptable logic to respond thoughtfully to any questions or requests. This would make it seem more alive... free of will... and conscious.

Perhaps asking endlessly "why" (like a child to their parents) of a machine's actions/statements would help to determine whether it was thinking in a ponderous/conscious way or just a pre-programmed/algorithmic way. Though the intelligence of the human asking the questions might be key in asking the right things and detecting the right signs.

reply to post by blocula


If you were a capable machine wouldn't you want to take over and fix this mess?

reply to post by andersensrm



Re your thread title: you are either assuming that the human brain is not a machine, or the human thinking doesn't happen in the brain. The human brain is a machine too! Albeit a very sophisticated one. So I question your thread title. What other "thinking" is there, but from a machine? I've never encountered a human that can think without a brain ...

I can tell when my computer become aware of its own existence;
BSOD!

reply to post by andersensrm


Ai baby

Reply to post by andersensrm

Science is working on it, right now machines just compute, not think. Not going to get into to an argument of the definition of thinking. We know what you mean.

It certainly can be done to make a computer mimic the human brain, but it isnt real consciousness, just would be a model of it.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

In my honest opinion as someone who studied programming (and still hates it ;p): A machine will always stay a machine no matter how close it can get to mimic a human. In the end it's always preprogrammed and predefined.

Originally posted by seeker1977
There is a post somewhere in here about Quantum Computing being much closer than anyone believes, possibly 10 to 15 years out. There is a story out there trying to provide a clear picture of how much more advance quantum computing is.

The story references some problem that would take all available current computers the entire time of the existance of our universe from the big bang to now however it goes on to state that a quantum computer would perform the same problem in hours.

If right now AI is nearly impossible, or thought to be impossible, that should change completely in the near future. Quantum computers could make Artificial Intelligence commonplace.

When I have more time I can try and find the actual story about quantum computing to post it here.

Correction: They have had it for a while now.

The world’s first commercially available quantum computer, which uses principles of quantum mechanics rather than classical mechanics, was sold to aerospace, defense and security company Lockheed Martin.

Unlike computers based on transistors, quantum computers rely on principles of quantum mechanics to conduct operations. The computers take advantage of properties like entanglement — when two particles have the same properties and behave identically while being separate — and storing data with “qubits,” or quantum bits. Typical bits store memory by registering an “on” or “off,” or a one or zero, while qubits can represent information as both memory and the state of entanglement with other particles.

First Commercial Quantum Computer

The article is dated May 27th, 2011. So I'd assume the purchase of the machine was shortly before that date.
But note that this is the "first commercial quantum computer."

So how long have they had the actual "first quantum computer?"

Hmm....

reply to post by NoHierarchy

Thanks for that reply. Interesting point. Like, "Why Daddy, but Whhyyyy?" Until it gets angry (which is impossible) so then you know. Were still aways off from Replicants with 4 year life spans. Remember Watson on Jeopardy?
Is this the best we can do? Or just smoke and mirrors:

Watson

reply to post by SplitInfinity
I agree and so that person who came back with an arificial limb is actually a real "cyborg" and do you remember when the bionic man fought bigfoot?!

reply to post by buddha


You are right, I just want to say that I didn't mean to say that God is only reflected in man, the whole of creation reflects the creator.

What I was trying to say is that only in humans can formless consciousness be expresed to the fullest extent possible.

Very amusing thread, riddled with assumptions about the "superiority" of human thinking. There is astounding research out there that shows that a lot of our "thinking" is not thinking, but mere predetermined responses to electric stimuli.

www.nature.com...

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Re your thread title: you are either assuming that the human brain is not a machine, or the human thinking doesn't happen in the brain. The human brain is a machine too! Albeit a very sophisticated one. So I question your thread title. What other "thinking" is there, but from a machine? I've never encountered a human that can think without a brain ...

depends on what you define as a machine. In that sense your right. But generally we don't regard our brains as machines. I'm talking about computers. But I like the connection and that is what I am going for, that we are similar to machines, and where is that line from machine to life start and end

Originally posted by andersensrm

Originally posted by AllIsOne
reply to post by andersensrm

 

Re your thread title: you are either assuming that the human brain is not a machine, or the human thinking doesn't happen in the brain. The human brain is a machine too! Albeit a very sophisticated one. So I question your thread title. What other "thinking" is there, but from a machine? I've never encountered a human that can think without a brain ...

depends on what you define as a machine. In that sense your right. But generally we don't regard our brains as machines. I'm talking about computers. But I like the connection and that is what I am going for, that we are similar to machines, and where is that line from machine to life start and end

We are currently only in the beginning stages of computer science. If you compare our A.I. history to that of biological life we have a disadvantage of a few billions years. Can you imagine what computers will be capable of doing in a million years from now? Ray Kurzweil thinks computer power will catch up to human capacity in his lifetime. After that your guess is as good as mine ...

BTW: We already have computers that are able to accomplish in hours what took scientists centuries ...
Please note that the software program was not retrieving any stored data. It literally observed a phenomenon (pendulum) and came up with the correct law of physics.

www.wired.com...