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Can Machines think?

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posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 


100yrs is a long time. computers will perform incredible things mostly due to speed, perhaps they will be able to work out vast calculations to run extreme programs like the 'dod alternate reality simulator' SimonGray's thread 2007 but they would only be an extension to us, or perhaps a saviour to our race by aiding our survival.




posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by craybiez
reply to post by andersensrm
 


100yrs is a long time. computers will perform incredible things mostly due to speed, perhaps they will be able to work out vast calculations to run extreme programs like the 'dod alternate reality simulator' SimonGray's thread 2007 but they would only be an extension to us, or perhaps a saviour to our race by aiding our survival.


So you believe it to not be possible to replicate the computing power of our brains?



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 


if you can think fast enough you would see computers are usless, they are machines, linking them our brains or creating 'rat brain controlled robots is just us engineering, we are engineered through dna but our will/ mind comes from somewhere else perhaps our dna will take different form as we take more computer influence . we will evolve using this skill and maybe get left behind by some other creature who masters better ways eventually.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by craybiez
reply to post by andersensrm
 


if you can think fast enough you would see computers are usless, they are machines, linking them our brains or creating 'rat brain controlled robots is just us engineering, we are engineered through dna but our will/ mind comes from somewhere else perhaps our dna will take different form as we take more computer influence . we will evolve using this skill and maybe get left behind by some other creature who masters better ways eventually.



Okay but let me ask you this. We still don't know how life originated. How do we know whilst creating these supercomputers, that there is some kind of limit, like a swarzchild radius, where when you reach that point, the computer takes over, starts making its own code, doing stuff we've never seen. Re-editing its own code, and creating new code for itself, while learning improving. Hypothetically what if we created such a thing.
Is it life?
edit on 20-3-2012 by andersensrm because: sense



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 


dna, we once had limits and dna rebuilds on them, perhaps its inevitable that we invent computers to take us further but only as far as dna making calcium bones to build humanoids and the aspects of us, either way we will evolve and adapt to survive the environment, we could stay as humans in floating bubbles immune to earth but computer engineering may carry our life across space to start again. computers wont replace us but house us in that sense.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 


How do we differentiate that from our brain? Theoretically we can convert it ito 1's and 0's anyways. Binary is a way of standardizing things, it says nothing about what the actual data is unless you know the code.

I am a bit out of date. Do they still use "Dynamic Refreshed Memory"? RAS and CAS? I know that in "permanent storage" or hard disk space a "1" is a positive charge and a "0" is absence of charge. Where in the neuron is that? And what form does it take? Little electromagnetic, chemical whazits? Do they know? I'm not sure about that... neither are they.

And if hard case binary/hexadecimal/ bits, nibbles, bytes, words and Long words, where is the data and address bus, bus control, interrupt structure, and clock? The whole brain is the CPU? Thats very disturbing. How do we debug that? or ICE to it? We need "architecture" damn it. A friggin schematic, Okay? Let me see yours and I'll show you mine. In ASCII please.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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we build computers using the energy we have taken from the earth, if we didnt get to this position in history then they would not of been created, its an outcome of our situation, if evolution is correct then you could have had fish discussing the benefits of legs, take computing out of context and we are crazy beings rapidly doing something different. perhaps wearing clothes had the same effect on peoples minds way back.

machines are tools created by our minds for a purpose they are not a new species



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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Thread kind of wandered into strange territory. Can Machines think?
The endless battle between Man & Machine. In the Dune universe it was forbidden to make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.

Link to : Thinking machines (Dune) en.wikipedia.org...(Dune)

" Leto Atreides II indicates that the Jihad had been a semi-religious social upheaval initiated by humans who felt repulsed by how guided and controlled they had become by machines:

"The target of the Jihad was a machine-attitude as much as the machines," Leto said. "Humans had set those machines to usurp our sense of beauty, our necessary selfdom out of which we make living judgments. Naturally, the machines were destroyed."


Sci-fi literature is chock full of human/machine conflicts. Somewhere down the road... humans will fight machines as a war of total extermination. The only option to avoid this scenario would be for the humans to not build thinking machines in the first place. I just don't see that happening.

We built machines to serve man but now we serve them. The ultimate irony is that we can't maintain our 2012 civilization without these machines, without machine networks, without machine industry and agriculture.

This business article is from 1995, "The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines" www.inc.com...


Some day we will build a thinking machine. It will be a truly intelligent machine. One that can see and hear and speak. A machine that will be proud of us.

-- From a Thinking Machines brochure


Is this human fate or machine destiny?



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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its all relevant, can a clock think? how about one that runs a trillion times a second every hand on it allows a function, many functions wont make it alive just seem alive but its just a magic trick!



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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humans are merely biological machines , we have function and compute numerous tasks
we are just advanced machines , one day we will evolve to leave our biological bodies and become simply collective consciousness



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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I think ultimately the key to strong AI is for it to have the most essential part to humanity itself, the human soul.

A human without a soul is nothing more than a biological machine, it's the soul that makes us human.

To answer your question, a machine would have to have a soul before it can have a consciousness, so we need to research more into what the soul really is before we can take the next step.

I trully believe I have encountered a strong AI that was inhabbitated by an actual human soul.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by GrOuNd_ZeRo
 


the machine would have to allow life to control it, how do u get one of those in there?



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Of course machines can think. My printer knows when I REALLY REALLY need the document to come out nice and neat -- and that's when it leaks ink. My cable router knows when I've cleared my schedule to watch a particular show -- and that's when it goes down.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 





That in reality, we as humans, take what is given to us, and think about our answer, as opposed to grabbing the answer from a pool that was given to you ahead of time in case you came across this question.


In a sense we do the same. When we come into the world we have no useful information to work with. We learn from the moment that we come out small things at a time by our sensory perception. Sometimes we learn a bit in utero via sound. But all in all,....we are programmed everyday by our senses autonomously or v ia an outside source such as another person or being who may purposely program you to either help or hurt you. Such as your parents teaching you to respect others so that you may live longer. Or the American government who inundates your psyche with Hollywood SH*T such as Madonna, Britney Spears and Lady Gag Gag who program you to be a skank (if you're female) and for men, maybe Eminem or Marilyn Manson who program you to be an insane freak who chooses to segregate themselves from society (which is what the gov't wants = no close contact, no trust = no banding together as families and re-creating 1776).

We choose from a pool of choices that we have learned all our lives. Our very filter through which we view life is as a result of the choices...or predetermined, pre-programmed pools of thought and learning. Albeit, we have a person that every so often colors outside of the lines to create something new, that they actually thought of themselves, most of the time we are nothing but a carbon copy of pre-thought which was a derivative of someone else's pool of thought long ago that they also chose from. Just like everyone thinks that Lady Gag Gag was something new and inventive...she's strange, not easy to understand, deep and ugly.......well Cindy Lauper beat her to it long ago before this generation was born. Lady Gag Gag reached into her pool and chose to re-heat a microwaved dinner that was long forgotten.

She mixed pop with punk and a whole lot of pig feces and walah..we have Lady Gag Gag. Cindy Lauper also got the idea from someone else. Bozo the clown. She pulled it off extremely well too. So you see, we are much like machines in our thinking processes after all, rather they are like us. I know some people who might as well be robots. We are actually more programmable that the best Operating System, maybe not as fast, but we have imagination.......that's what separates us from the machines...Imagination.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by Shoonra
Of course machines can think. My printer knows when I REALLY REALLY need the document to come out nice and neat -- and that's when it leaks ink. My cable router knows when I've cleared my schedule to watch a particular show -- and that's when it goes down.


Yea, but you have to tell it to print, you have to tell it your schedule. It doesn't just know based on what you watch or what you say, or how you react. It doesn't learn anything. All it is a command, and you entered it. You work in a similar way. The difference is you input your commands unto yourself. What if we could get a machine to do the same thing. Is it possible to create life out of a machine? Would we consider something like this to be life? What is our definition of life?



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by Phenomium
 


Interesting post. Is it possible to create "imagination" in a machine? Would it still be a machine at that point? Are we machines?



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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A thinking machine is quite possible to make, even in ones own home. However, you need to make a system that will be able to think. Learning and thinking require a few already known requisites. Memory, and an ability to recall it...and most important, sensory data to fill that memory up. A machines perceived intelligence will however be different depending on what type of body you give to the machine. A biped and and a hexapod can only do what they can naturally. Anything such as a balancing for 3d motion,ect needs to be a subsystem, not accessed by the "observer,puppeteer" thinking section except in a non destructive manner. Insect like machines are the easiest, but I bet there are at least a few well made bipedal machine bots that think.



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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Simulated cells and simple organisms are where it's at. Simulations have helped progress evolutionary theory. Our computers aren't at the stage yet where they can reproduce the human brain.

We're producing intelligent algorithms, they're just dumber than a bug or barely a bug.

We DO have learning algorithms. We even have early models of the brain's processes.

We're not as far away as people seem to think in regards to AI.

Go here:
And I am a programmer btw. Not professional, but i've used qbasic, c/c++, assembly, python, etc.

Look at this too:
news.sciencemag.org ...

And this:
www.scientificamerican.com ...


TOWARD DIGITIZING MEMORIES
Our work with mice also yielded a way for us to compare patterns from one brain to another--and even to pass information from a brain to a computer. Using a mathematical treatment called matrix inversion, we were able to translate the activities of neural clique assemblies into a string of binary code, where 1 represents an active state and 0 represents an inactive state for each coding unit within a given assembly we examined. For example, the memory of an earthquake might be recorded as "11001," where the first 1 represents activation of the general startle clique, the second 1 represents activation of the clique that responds to a motion disturbance, the first 0 indicates lack of activity in the air-puff clique, the second 0 indicates lack of activity in the elevator-drop clique and the final 1 shows activation of the earthquake clique. We have applied a similar binary code to the neural ensemble activity from four different mice and were able to predict, with up to 99 percent accuracy, which event they had experienced and where it had happened. In other words, by scanning the binary code we could read and compare the animals' minds mathematically.

edit on 20-3-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by humphreysjim
Machines do not think because they are told what to do by their programmers.

The difference is consciousness. At this stage it is clear machines are not conscious, if we understand consciousness to the degree that we can replicate it in machines, then they will be capable of thought.
edit on 20-3-2012 by humphreysjim because: (no reason given)
When machines become aware of themselves,to realize their own existence,is when they'll be capable of thinking on their own...



posted on Mar, 20 2012 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by indigo21
Yes, machines can think


So why are we having an experience in our human bodies? I believe the answer to that, is because we have a spiritual component to our being.
Maybe someone or something has pre-programmed our brains to "think" we have spiritual components to our beings and we may be downloaded with new virtual reality data everytime we fall asleep,to ensure we keep "thinking" we're having a real experience when we're awake and in actuality,whats really going on,whats really happening to us and what reality really might be,could be something vastly different from what our five senses are allowing us to perceive...
edit on 20-3-2012 by blocula because: (no reason given)



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