2nd Trimester Abortions, What Is Your Stance On Them?

Originally posted by Chewingonmushrooms
I usually try and stay far away from polarizing subjects/topics such as this, but IMO only in special circumstances (mother's health, rape, incest) should this be allowed. I am a believer in a woman's right to choose, but after a certain point it becomes obvious that the fetus is no longer a fetus and is an actual baby.

I posted earlier of a friend who nearly died self-aborting at 7 months. And there are many fetuses that die from child-birth problems. LAW is not the solution to honoring 7 month fetuses - moms are. Dishonoring the mothers and their choices only increases the certainty that NFW is this thing getting born that some mothers have - my friend Beth did. Her fist worked and she and her 2 other sons live happy ever-after. The rapist went back to jail for other charges too. But it was the lateness of term that got her abortion denied. Legal interference with mother's authority over a fetus is deadly, crewel, and SATANIC... it prescribes punishment blind of the circumstances of whatever choice was made without respect of the mother's role in gestation. Stupid and wrong.

I believe in a woman's choice, but the thought of 2nd trimester abortions literally makes me sick. I can't even think about it, honestly. If you've carried a baby around for that many weeks (knowingly or unknowingly) then you should deliver and consider adoption.

What sort of society are we that we'd allow a woman to abort in the 2nd trimester?

In my mind, there are very few logical reasons or circumstances that would warrant the termination of a pregnancy in the 2nd or 3rd trimesters. Actually, aside from a threat to the mothers health and well being or learning that the child will be handicapped would be the only two reasons...in my mind. BUT...its not my place or job to concern myself with the personal choices of others...period. I just make sure I'm on the side of an argument I feel I can stand behind regardless of what others might try and force upon me...I certainly don't think allowing unfit people to procreate is a good idea either...in other words I would like to see more abortions by dumb people who still let ancient books think for them...have a good one guys

Originally posted by MRuss
I believe in a woman's choice, but the thought of 2nd trimester abortions literally makes me sick. I can't even think about it, honestly. If you've carried a baby around for that many weeks (knowingly or unknowingly) then you should deliver and consider adoption.

What sort of society are we that we'd allow a woman to abort in the 2nd trimester?

My friend who self aborted at 7 months had a rapist who wanted the kid in order to get welfare, or access to it if she were to deliver it... and no medical provider offered her such an option of c-section to adoption w/o father a-hole getting a say... complex and idealistic while LIFE & DEATH keep on keepin on. IT HAPPENS.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by kingofmd
Question for all of the "I am for a woman's right to her body..." ranters:

How exactly is the fetus a "part of her body", while the fetus has it's own specific DNA, in some cases a different blood type, and in 1/2 the cases a penis? I am all for a woman to have the right to say what goes on for her body, but the fetus' body is not hers, so could we please stop that argument.

The answer to your question is that the fetus is for lack of a better word, a parasite. Without a host it cannot live, and a woman has the right to decide if she is a host or not.
Im not sure your aware of what it actually takes to carry a child for 9 months.

RIGHT ON! And that's regardless if somene tries to parse out the definition of a parasite vs a fetus. The mear fact is that the mother carries the fetus. Till she DELIVERS its part of her. and after that its a citizen...

BIRTH = DEFINING MOMENT, citizenship, person-hood, etc
WOW = War On Women, a satanic enslavement of women via CONTROLLING their womb - with violent consequences (jail).

Its one thing to love and honor fetuses, but quite another to take control over one that's in someone else's womb - ENSLAVING the mom to your interests... SATANIC. We got enough laws as it is - perscriptions to hurt people worse than the harm in their offenses. Taking that too far makes it into hell on earth, especially for women and children (Joan Jet reference).

reply to post by reitze

My friend who self aborted at 7 months had a rapist who wanted the kid in order to get welfare, or access to it if she were to deliver it... and no medical provider offered her such an option of c-section to adoption w/o father a-hole getting a say.

I am curious, why did she wait that long? Especially after a rape, when there surely is free abortion available from the start for all? It seems crazy someone would carry a rape child for 7 months and refuse safe medical abortion, before finally self-aborting on their own and risking their life.

I had a baby at 22-24 weeks gestation what some women abort I had. He cried like a kitten, yes he cried. Everything was developed on him. You could see through his skin, he looked like a tiny old man, 1 pound 6 ounces/ 835kg. Very tiny. But, he lived after 100 days in hospital.

If you don't want a baby please use a condom, birth control, etc. If you are raped, heaven forbid, have a DNC, hurts like hell, but will wash out the uterus while it has just implanted if it has. There are ways to stop hurting a living being with saline solution, hence burning the fetus/baby, very cruel then pulled apart.

NO, I don't believe in abortion in 2nd term, I had what alot of women are aborting and he is now 13, taller than me and I'm 5'7" and smart.

It's very easy to kill that which you cannot see. If you didn't see it, it didn't happen right. Watch Silent Scream it shows a fetus fighting what is trying to hurt it. So sad.

I'll add this because I didn't even know it. Roe Vs Wade case she fought so hard to pass, she then became a NUN later in life and fought against abortion, imagine that.

This is in judgement of no one here. Just a story from someone whose had a second term baby. This is a hard subject all on it's own I know.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by reitze

 

My friend who self aborted at 7 months had a rapist who wanted the kid in order to get welfare, or access to it if she were to deliver it... and no medical provider offered her such an option of c-section to adoption w/o father a-hole getting a say.

I am curious, why did she wait that long? Especially after a rape, when there surely is free abortion available from the start for all? It seems crazy someone would carry a rape child for 7 months and refuse safe medical abortion, before finally self-aborting on their own and risking their life.

edit on 20/3/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

Criticizing her doesn't change it. But indulging your curiosity, she was very thin and didn't menstruate regularly - by the time she was sure she was pregnant she'd only missed a period or so and was already 3 months. I drove her to the clinic but they assessed it at 4 months and denied her the services. Within a week or two from then she was getting so angry it was scary, and it only got worse and worse - when it started showing she started punching it. it seemed about 7 months or so when that succeeded.

Of course the morning-after pill WOULD have been a way-better solution if it were available the day after the rapist (who pin-pricked a condom) or at least as soon as she got worried about it... but it was in the early 1990s before I think that option became available.

Originally posted by DaphneApollo
I had a baby at 22-24 weeks gestation what some women abort I had. He cried like a kitten, yes he cried. Everything was developed on him. You could see through his skin, he looked like a tiny old man, 1 pound 6 ounces/ 835kg. Very tiny. But, he lived after 100 days in hospital.

If you don't want a baby please use a condom, birth control, etc. If you are raped, heaven forbid, have a DNC, hurts like hell, but will wash out the uterus while it has just implanted if it has. There are ways to stop hurting a living being with saline solution, hence burning the fetus/baby, very cruel then pulled apart.

NO, I don't believe in abortion in 2nd term, I had what alot of women are aborting and he is now 13, taller than me and I'm 5'7" and smart.

It's very easy to kill that which you cannot see. If you didn't see it, it didn't happen right. Watch Silent Scream it shows a fetus fighting what is trying to hurt it. So sad.

I'll add this because I didn't even know it. Roe Vs Wade case she fought so hard to pass, she then became a NUN later in life and fought against abortion, imagine that.

This is in judgement of no one here. Just a story from someone whose had a second term baby. This is a hard subject all on it's own I know.

edit on 20-3-2012 by DaphneApollo because: (no reason given)

I don't argue with loving honoring and respecting the life of a fetus - but when done against the will of the mother carrying it - we get an ABORTION OF JUSTICE. It converts a beautiful thing into a War On Women. And sure it maby only some who have such awful circumstances. BUT,...

If my wife were prego and 7 or 8 months and SHE felt certain of a need to abort I would DO ANYTHING to help HER. Could I trust doctors in such circumstances? Well maybe if there weren't LEGAL constraints taking prioirity over my wife's decision. The WOMAN OWNS THE WOMB, not GOVERNENT unless its a system of slavery - and sure there's a biblical connection to that concept. Want more laws controlling people? Well that's SATANIC. Of course ...

The road to hell is paved by good intentions. Who knows maybe I might get a few fetuses killed by supporting women's freedoms. But we do our best and I do hope the more mainstream Christians get the point. (I'm a book-read christian who was raised atheistically).

reply to post by reitze

But we do our best and I do hope the more mainstream Christians get the point. (I'm a book-read christian who was raised atheistically).

This is not really about christianity at this point, christians are just the ones vocal about embryos from conception. As an atheist, I cannot agree with legal abortion until birth, unless mothers life is endangered. That is no different from murder in my book. 86 % of US population shares this view, yet only 77 % is christian.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by reitze

 

But we do our best and I do hope the more mainstream Christians get the point. (I'm a book-read christian who was raised atheistically).

This is not really about christianity at this point, christians are just the ones vocal about embryos from conception. As an atheist, I cannot agree with legal abortion until birth, unless mothers life is endangered. That is no different from murder in my book. 86 % of US population shares this view, yet only 77 % is christian.

edit on 20/3/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

Regardless if you agree, if my wife were to need such a service someone wold provide it regardless of your say so over her womb. Tough # what you want. (lol using the #'s instead of explitives - fun)

Its her ## womb.

reply to post by reitze


This is why I said it's a hard topic to discuss. So many views, I know. I knew someone whose wife was pregnant with a child that had no brain or was horribly disfigured, they made the decision to abort. I know sometimes each circumstance is the mothers decision.

I gave a view of what a second term baby (live) really looks like. They are fully developed and tiny babies without full lung capacity. Lungs are all that is not developed completely.

And I have not brought the religious discussion into this. Not in my post. So, I don't know why that was there in your post.

reply to post by Raxoxane


I was born at 7 months so was my sister
and lucky to be near a damn fine hospital and have a medically educated mother as well.

I have to agree there is sentience very early
even in at the cellular level
even single cells do struggle to live

that said, there are some bomb Iraq and bomb Iran folks on this thread who claim to be anti abortion

(Falujah babies or the resulting 40 percent reduction in sperm counts in downwind countries like Israel would be a topic for another thread.)

I just don't see how that will do the fetuses in those counties any good
but it does illustrate the complexities in having a poosition on this issue.

Originally posted by DaphneApollo
reply to post by reitze

 

And I have not brought the religious discussion into this. Not in my post. So, I don't know why that was there in your post.

Its there because I FEEL religious about it. That its GOD's APPOINTMENT of WOMEN to give birth - or not. Up to her. And I find it satanic to interfere by laws prescribing punishments. Sorry if that sound harsh toward you - I mean nothing harsh toward people, but do mean to be harsh toward the satanic ideas that add complications risks and abuses to women who conceive.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by reitze

 

But we do our best and I do hope the more mainstream Christians get the point. (I'm a book-read christian who was raised atheistically).

This is not really about christianity at this point, christians are just the ones vocal about embryos from conception. As an atheist, I cannot agree with legal abortion until birth, unless mothers life is endangered. That is no different from murder in my book. 86 % of US population shares this view, yet only 77 % is christian.

edit on 20/3/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

The rub is that if you allow BUREAUCRACY with rules and procedures to interfere your hurting pregnant women. And that is religious... what you to to the least among us (prego moms) you do also to me. If the mom has a love for the fetus she'll do what she can for it. Or if not - like I saw a women do at 7 months, she'll kill it one way or another. I would hope that enough would have common sense to leave it up to her with minimum rules/bureaucracy and interference. Otherwise it just drives underground into dangerous situations. My friend Beth survived but it was hellish trauma on her body compared to what a 4-5 month abortion would have been. She punched herself till it worked - after 2 or 3 months of that painful process. She was certain and determined - and knowing her I couldn't help but respect her all the more for it. And thank God that she survived... her and her 2 sons live happy ever after (are grown up now too).

And the Christianity/Satanic aspect is the ENSLAVEMENT of women prescribed by law - with jail punishment (more enslavement)... similar to the effects of the War On Drugs. So IMHO the bible can be missused to justify terrible evils or better understanding and freedom. My hope is in the Jesus, not satanic laws.

reply to post by reitze

My friend Beth survived but it was hellish trauma on her body compared to what a 4-5 month abortion would have been.

I think at 4-5 months, abortion is on the edge of acceptable, so your friend should still have been allowed one in my opinion. And at 7 months, she should be allowed to terminate the pregnancy, tough not by killing the foetus unless medically required.

Or if not - like I saw a women do at 7 months, she'll kill it one way or another.

Not really an argument, as that still does not make it any less wrong. People also murder each other every day and will continue to do so. Should we legalize murder?

After that 5th month has passed, there are TWO individuals that deserve protection, not just one. Thus their rights need to be balanced against each other.

reply to post by reitze

And the Christianity/Satanic aspect is the ENSLAVEMENT of women prescribed by law

Do you think a siamese twin is a slave of its other twin?

I think it is not slavery at all. It is a right to life of an innocent human being.

reply to post by reitze

Its there because I FEEL religious about it. That its GOD's APPOINTMENT of WOMEN to give birth - or not. Up to her. And I find it satanic to interfere by laws prescribing punishments. Sorry if that sound harsh toward you - I mean nothing harsh toward people, but do mean to be harsh toward the satanic ideas that add complications risks and abuses to women who conceive.

What each person does is their own to face when time comes to give account to Him. Not Mine!

We all will give account of our actions when we go over. If a woman is facing death through carrying the child full term, yes, something should be done, I agree. I understand what your point is though. No, courts should not tell women what to do with her womb. If a woman wants an abortion she will do it whether it be legal or in an alley with a coat hanger. But, I see what you are saying.

Let's leave it at that.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by reitze

 

And the Christianity/Satanic aspect is the ENSLAVEMENT of women prescribed by law

Do you think a siamese twin is a slave of its other twin?
I think it is not slavery at all. It is a right to life of an innocent human being.

Its a matter of who do you trust? Moms or politicians? Doctors or coat hangers and fists? Laws constraining doctors result in fists.

My friend tried to get an abortion at 4 months. The 7 month result was due to service denial, not some evil act on her part. She was raped and the rapist was still around demanding rights over her too. I have nothing but respect for her having had the courage to deal with her situation. And i do get it you don't like seeing a fetus die - but it was part of her, not yours to control. Controls like those hurt people like her --- roads to hell paived with good intentions. God gave woman the role of gestation - empowering governments against that is SATANIC imho.

The siamese twin thing? well if 1 head is vital and the other head is not then it would be up to the ruling head whether or not to cut off the other, just like I could cut off some body part if I felt it necessary. Many people do ya know - diseases, injuries, and sometimes just stipid accidents. Want prohibition laws on that too? So someone gotes for stitches and gets arrested? Jailed(slaved) over it? ... satanic stuff perscribing punishment laws...

Ever read any Statnic bible stuff like Anton Levay? The golden rule...

Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you....
satanic extension of it:
unless they do you wrong, then do them back 10x over so they never think of doing that to you again. A fetus protection law has the same effect on certain women, the ones in the toughest perdiciments like my friend Beth suffered - all because some politicians passed 3 month time limit rules against later abortions. Deadly stuff.

A cockroach runs when people try to cut them in half too. You can't pick and chose what life is more important just because of the species.

I'm just sayinnnnnnnnnnnnn

I like babies and hate cockroaches, yet they are both still alive.