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France shooting: Jewish school in Toulouse attacked

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posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


Your attempt at belittling my mental capability to that of a moron is a classical attempt at intellectual bullying, which even that you are failing at.

The fact that you are unable to take in to account any societal context on matters such as these show off your own intellectual failings.

Sarkosy's comments were atypical of many French politicians scared of the like of Marie Le Pen taking blocs of their traditional voting populace. France seems to be becoming a country where anything that isn't atypical French is seen as dangerous & radical.

Anyway I am sure it was just a 'nutter' with no political motivation.

To everyone else on the board, don't even try to come to your own formulation of thought on this event, blueorder does not allow it.




posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by blueorder
 


Your attempt at belittling my mental capability to that of a moron is a classical attempt at intellectual bullying, which even that you are failing at.


don't be so dramatic, I am not suggesting you are a moron, just that your original assertion is silly





The fact that you are unable to take in to account any societal context on matters such as these show off your own intellectual failings.



again, this is like me saying that, in terms of "societal context", then if this is a "right wing nutter" so enraged about immigration, then those who support large scale immigration are to blame, as without large scale immigration this crime would not have been committed.

As it is, you can support or oppose large scale immigration without it being lumped on to the crime of some killer




Sarkosy's comments were atypical of many French politicians scared of the like of Marie Le Pen taking blocs of their traditional voting populace. France seems to be becoming a country where anything that isn't atypical French is seen as dangerous & radical.


Politicians lie and connive to get power, I doubt Sarkozy is that bothered about immigration or else he would withdraw from the EU.





Anyway I am sure it was just a 'nutter' with no political motivation.


I am not sure, any more than it was a right wing nutter or Islamic nutter




To everyone else on the board, don't even try to come to your own formulation of thought on this event, blueorder does not allow it.


You can suggest it, but let us not state that this is a "right wing nutter" for sure until we actually know



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk

As those targeted were of 'ethnic' origin


"Jewish" is not an ethnicity, it's a religious belief.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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All MSM outlets reporting the murder of this Jewish family as front page news, Yahoo, BBC, CNN, NYT


“He shot at everything he could see, children and adults, and some children were chased into the school,” Mr. Valet said, according to news reports.


www.nytimes.com...

'shooting at everything'. '3 CHILDREN killed. Regardless of who did this it is a terrorist attack, but could it be a false flag?


“It (the Vernal Equinox) was particularly the sacrifice des primeurs, the first fruits of the fields, the first vegetables, the first lambs and other young animals and so on. And the first-born son, Christ the Son of God, is also sacrificed at the time of the vernal equinox. This idea of YOUTH being sacrificed was called in Rome the ver sacrum, the sacred spring.”
- Carl Jung, Notes on the Seminar Given in 1930-1934 Volume 1


www.nairaland.com...

Tomorrow March 20 Iran stops trading oil for dollars, meaning war is close at hand. Could this shooting be a 'blood sacrifice'? Specifically because it targeted children?

The protocols of zion talk about sacificing Jews in order to propel their cause, could this be an example?


We have not counted the victims of the seed of the goy cattle, but we have sacrificed many of our own


www.biblebelievers.org.au...



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


I am not being dramatic, it was just obvious what you were trying to do.

It isn't like saying that at all. Intolerant rhetoric on immigration is known to stigmatise immigrants as shown in this study,


The findings show that right-wing political discourse is organized by a global strategy of negative otherpresentation, not only of the ‘others’, who are almost systematically derogated, accused of abuse and thus criminalized, but also of their supposed allies, the political Left, object of systematic delegitimation.


das.sagepub.com...

Through this the immigrants place, in an already vulnerable position in society, is further threatened by the appearance and reality of being under attack from state backed forces. This is extremely dangerous & negligent on the part of those elected to play the role of responsible statespeople.

Whether Sarko cares about immigration or not is irrelevant. The fact that he made those comments and a susceptible part of the population were listening, that is what is relevant

I have not stated that this is a right wing nutter. I am theorising based upon the facts on who the targets were and the recent shooting of the soldiers, which appears to be connected.
edit on 19-3-2012 by Peruvianmonk because: Formatting



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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I would put my bet on someone from North African origin and since France has the largest community of North African Muslims in Europe, of course the media won't mention it in case of retribution!



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by Britguy
 


Ethnicity can include a common religion, as defined by the UN.




The specific ethnic and/or national groups of the population which are of interest in each country are dependent upon individual national circumstances. Some of the criteria by which ethnic groups are identified are ethnic nationality (i.e., country or area of origin, as distinct from citizenship or country of legal nationality), race, colour, language, religion, customs of dress or eating, tribe or various combinations of these characteristics. In addition, some of the terms used, such as “race”, “origin” or “tribe”, have a number of different connotations. The definitions and criteria applied by each country investigating ethnic characteristics of the population must, therefore, be determined carefully and with the involvement of or consultation with representatives of the groups which it desires to categorize. By the nature of this topic, these categories and their definitions will vary widely from country to country; therefore, no internationally accepted criteria are possible.



unstats.un.org...



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by elevenaugust
Everyone here is shocked, especially when you know that, in each case, the murderer has methodically pursued and killed soldiers three days ago and children today inside the school.

What scares me is that someone so determined to dare to kill soldiers in the city and children in their own school certainly will not stop there...


edit on 19-3-2012 by elevenaugust because: (no reason given)

Indeed and it supports my theory that France, along with other European country's, should have CCW and the right to bear arms.
Czech Rep. already has this and they don't have spree killers there...



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk

As those targeted were of 'ethnic' origin


"Jewish" is not an ethnicity, it's a religious belief.


Well some Jews would disagree with you on that one



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by blueorder
 


I am not being dramatic, it was just obvious what you were trying to do.




you are if you think I am trying to suggest you are a moron (though the "jog on" usage does irk me, regardless of who says it)



It isn't like saying that at all. Intolerant rhetoric on immigration is known to stigmatise immigrants as shown in this study,


it is exactly like that, it gives "societal context", just of a form you do not like to acknowledge.




The findings show that right-wing political discourse is organized by a global strategy of negative otherpresentation, not only of the ‘others’, who are almost systematically derogated, accused of abuse and thus criminalized, but also of their supposed allies, the political Left, object of systematic delegitimation.


das.sagepub.com...



cannot access that, and I would question the impartiality of it, given the title.........if you happen to have a link for a pdf of it I will be happy to see exactly the sort of "proof" it is you are suggesting.

Supporting limited immigration is a reasonable viewpoint and to link it to the murder of kids under the auspices of "societal context" is pretty low rent-- that is like me saying promoting socialism automatically produces the gulags or Pol Pot's killing fields.

When you try and EXTINGUISH reasonable discussion on the issue, you can push people to extremes.........None of that gets away from the fact that the only person responsible for this action is the mainac on the bike


Through this, immigrants already vulnerable position in society is further heightened by the appearance and reality of being under attack from state backed forces. This is extremely dangerous & negligent on the part of those elected to play the role of responsible statespeople.


No it isn't, nothing in Sarko's comments indicated that immigrants were to be attacked, just that immigration should be limited in the future *even though I do not believe him*





Whether Sarko cares about immigration or not is irrelevant. The fact that he made those comments and a susceptible part of the population were listening, that is what is relevant


You would rather hope the leader of a nation would wish to limit immigration to the nation, a rather reasonable viewpoint and something which would LESSEN the likelihood of future strife (if he was serious, which I doubt he was)

Also, this school was not one of immigrants, but of Jewish kids, probably with history going back centuries



I have not stated that this is a right wing nutter. I am theorising based upon the facts on who the target was and the recent shooting of the soldiers.


It is but one possibility



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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for example, here is another possibility, an arab/islamist perpetrated it- the Jewish attack would be quite evident and the North African soldiers could be considered as collaborators.

Just a theory, like yours, wait for facts to emerge



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


Well by associating my usage of slang to being a Danny Dyer fan and viewer of inane T.V. you were pretty clearly trying to label me as a moron.

The link is to a university study from actual academics who have researched this topic of political discourse on immigration. There are literally dozens of examples from countries around the world.



Supporting limited immigration is a reasonable viewpoint and to link it to the murder of kids under the auspices of "societal context" is pretty low rent-- that is like me saying promoting socialism automatically produces the gulags or Pol Pot's killing fields.


Ridiculous statement.



When you try and EXTINGUISH reasonable discussion on the issue, you can push people to extremes


The same can be said when immigrants are attacked as part or root of the problem of a nation as Sarko & co are doing with their statements.




"We must reduce the number of arrivals on our territory," Sarkozy said, pledging to end the automatic right of immigrants to be joined by their families. "You are not welcome in France if you are only coming to receive welfare. Everyone thinks it: it is time for republicans to say it." "Those who come with the intention of not respecting our laws and our customs, of not respecting the property of others, of not sending their children to school, of not making an effort at integration, they are not welcome on French soil," he said.


www.huffingtonpost.com...

Yeh nice one Sarko, not a mention on the benefits of the immigrant population for small to large business in labor terms, skilled labor and those immigrant who assimilate and respect French culture.

You really think this kind of rhetoric does not play in to the right wing extremist argument?

I feel like we have kind of hijacked this thread, so will leave it there for now. I will update with any info on the shootings that I come across.
edit on 19-3-2012 by Peruvianmonk because: Spelling



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by rocket88
What is going on in France???
The suspect left on a scooter just like the one who murdered the soldier one week ago.
I hope that is not a start of a killing spree...


Being French and having lived in Toulouse I can safely say I have more insight than 99.9% of you here but however horrific this is, "what's going on in France???" just makes me shudder.

Really? It's a very localised problem and god forbid it continues but let's keep our head screwed on shall we?

How many were killed in the last few days as part of gang/drug violence in the US, UK, and rest of Europe?

This website is become a festering pile of farking faecal matter.

RIP those who lost their lives, and to all the others we're are not creating posts about *cough*.

Above Top Secret huh?

T
edit on 19-3-2012 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:23 AM
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I admit, my first thought is that it was an arab. In France we have the largest population of Muslims in all of Europe, and the tension between them and the Jews is palpable. The right wing is more concerned about the immigrants from North Africa, not the Jewish population.
The government goes to great lengths to protect the Jews- laws against any anti-sematic expressions are enforced, at a Jewish school my husband works across the street from, there is daily police guards and protection in front of the school during the hours they come in and leave. That is paid for by the french tax payers. (I am wondering why this particular school didn't have that too?) The french have a guilty conscience and feel they "owe" the Jewish community a lot because of their collaboration, (Vichy regime), with the Nazi's.

At this point, the government spends more effort on trying to protect them from the arabs, and most support that. It is also why so many are starting to feel that instead of providing armed guards for the Jew, maybe we should put some limits or restrictions on the huge influx of arab immigrants?

But of course, if you say that outloud, you get bashed as a racist. And like Bluemirage said, if it is found that the gunman was arab, that will not be revealed to the public. The fear of being called racist, or taking reactionary and violent abuse from our huge solidary muslim population is pretty much going to leave them to do what they want, in the end.
edit on 19-3-2012 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Yeh nice one Sarko, not a mention on the benefits of the immigrant population for small to large business in labor terms, skilled labor and those immigrant who assimilate and respect French culture.


Dear Peruvianmonk,
That's actually a completely separate issue to the one being discussed in the OP, however you are spot on that those who DO respect the French culture and bring something to the table should have their say, rights and voice in a French republic.

The sad truth is that a vast majority living in the Toulouse HLMs do not. They state France is theirs, they spit on the culture, they trash the town, they rape white women and they live day to day from selling dope and benefits paid for by the taxpayer.

T
edit on 19-3-2012 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Britguy

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk

As those targeted were of 'ethnic' origin


"Jewish" is not an ethnicity, it's a religious belief.


Try telling that to the black Jews so they can worship with their fellow white Jews. It ain't going to happen. As far as the orthodox Jews are concerned they are an elite race!



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by blueorder
 


Well by associating my usage of slang to being a Danny Dyer fan and viewer of inane T.V. you were pretty clearly trying to label me as a moron.


It is a moronic term and springs from Mr Dyer, if you use it again, expect the same response




The link is to a university study from actual academics who have researched this topic of political discouraging on immigration. There are literally dozens of examples from countries around the world


just because it is from a "university" and has "actual academics" (?!?!?) does not release it from bias, I would be interested in readig this article in full, I remain skeptical



Ridiculous statement.


less ridiculous than you linking the murder of Jewish kids to Sarko's comments about immigration




The same can be said when immigrants are attacked as part or root of the problem of a nation as Sarko & co are doing with their statements.


so you said my comment was "ridiculous" then "the same can be said........"- so inferring your own comment is ridiculous.





"We must reduce the number of arrivals on our territory," Sarkozy said,


spot on- still no compulsion to shoot Jewish kids



pledging to end the automatic right of immigrants to be joined by their families. "You are not welcome in France if you are only coming to receive welfare. Everyone thinks it: it is time for republicans to say it."
-

spot on- still no compulsion to shoot Jewish kids



"Those who come with the intention of not respecting our laws and our customs, of not respecting the property of others, of not sending their children to school, of not making an effort at integration, they are not welcome on French soil," he said.


very reasonable, welcome the good immigrants not the bad ones, highlighting that many immigrants are a positive for the country- still no compulsion to shoot Jewish kids



Yeh nice one Sarko, not a mention on the benefits of the immigrant population for small to large business in labor terms, skilled labor and those immigrant who assimilate and respect French culture.


are you seriously suggesting Sarko has not mentioned the positive influence of immigrants, do you really need us to get some links to speeches where he has- Im sure you know they exist, so no need for a silly dance




You really think this kind of rhetoric does not play in to the right wing extremist argument?


yes, his comments were reasonable




I feel like we have kind of hijacked this thread, so will leave it there for now.

I will update with any info on the shootings that I come across.


ok fair enough, like I say, you could be right with the motives, but we shall see



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by torqpoc
 




thanks for your insight, an uncomfortable truth for many who profess to be "liberal"/left...........



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by torqpoc


The sad truth is that a vast majority living in the Toulouse HLMs do not. They state France is theirs, they spit on the culture, they trash the town, they rape white women and they live day to day from selling dope and benefits paid for by the taxpayer.



This is true, in many parts of France. I wouldn't have believed it either, if I didn't witness and live it myself.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Procharmo
 



And yes, I can often be found skanking to Ska and I do have a skinhead.....does that make me a potential serial killer?




I don't see you as a potential serial killer. However I do see the suspect as someone like you but with balls. That is he goes beyond words with his actions. But we all know what you really want to do to me. Mainly because I'm making an assumption and my suspect has the same hair style as yourself.

Imagine if I were a child or Jewish. You'd really be able to christen them boots. Wouldn't you?



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