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Calling all Democrats and those on the fence - a RP thread

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posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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All democrats and those on the fence. I would like to discuss a little logic with you.

First, let me start by saying that most left leaning people I have discussed this with have always said they agree with 80-ish percent of what Dr. Paul says.

So, assuming the above is true I would like to ask all of you this: When looking at the republican field and looking at the possibility that Obama could lose the election; who would you prefer to see in office? Santorum, Romney, Gingrich or Dr. Paul?

Think about this for a second. If Dr. Paul is the closest to your ideologies and the others are obvious neo-cons (or worse), wouldn't it make sense to support the good Dr.? If, hypothetically speaking, Dr. Paul becomes the nominee (here come the trolls) and he gets to run against Obama, isn't that a win-win? If those of you that support Obama support Dr. Paul during the primaries and he gets the nomination you are obviously free to go back and support Obama in the General Election. If Obama wins, you win. If Paul wins, you at least 80-ish percent win. Better than 0 percent if Romney/Santorum/Gingrich win, no?

The alternative is that Romney or Santorum or Gingrich get the nomination and, hypothetically, they win. Then what do we have? We have something that stands against everything you stand for.

So, I am calling for all Democrats, liberals, left-leaning persons, and those on the fence to put aside the few minor differences you may have with Dr. Paul and help us ensure we don't end up with President Romney/Gingrich, or Santorum.


edit on 18-3-2012 by Bakatono because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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They won't do it for various reasons. Paul has not been annointed by the democratic and liberal opinionmakers in a way that makes him acceptable for them. Its sad that mainline amercans (conservative and liberal alike) respond to these verbal cues and shibboleths rather than logic, but there it is.

My party, Communist Party USA (CPUSA), will not field a candidate this time and has endorsed Obama. To me this is giving up, Obama remains a right-wing figure. I am running myself on a hard-left platform.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Leftist


My party, Communist Party USA (CPUSA), will not field a candidate this time and has endorsed Obama. To me this is giving up, Obama remains a right-wing figure. I am running myself on a hard-left platform.


I am no fan of communism but I applaud your honesty. See, this freedom of speech thing is pretty neat huh?

Anyhow, I think your opinion of Obama as a right-wing figure is pretty odd. How is that? Because he is funded by big business, takes over banks and auto manufacturers, starts wars, signs laws allowing indefinite detention without charge, signs executive orders to take over all resources and industry? I am not so sure this is right-wing. There are many communists who would do just that.

For the record, i am not right-wing at all. Or left for that matter. I am middle. I am for liberty and freedom and limited government (which used to be right-wing). I am NOT for war, more taxes, huge government of inefficient social plans, government take-over of industry or other forms of neo-fascism.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 09:58 PM
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Gingrich, or Santorum in the White House would be a DISASTER for America AND also the WORLD. PERIOD!!!!!

Romney is a FAKE, but wouldnt screw us AS BAD (nor be anywhere NEARLY as DANGEROUS as Gingrich or Santorum)

Obama will keep things going forward for the country while having compassion for the many folks struggling along the way. But in getting there, he may have the tendency to spend a wee-bit more than most folks would like.

Ron Paul would solve a LOT of problems but does have a bit of a radical method for change in areas that most Americans have grown comfortable with.

IN THE END, it better be either Ron Paul, Obama, and WORST comes to WORST... Romney the fake.

Kiss your rears goodbye if the other two get in... ie: the biggest degenerates ever to run: Gingrich or Santorum.
edit on 18-3-2012 by HangTheTraitors because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by HangTheTraitors
Gingrich, or Santorum in the White House would be a DISASTER for America AND also the WORLD. PERIOD!!!!!

Romney is a FAKE, but wouldnt screw us AS BAD (nor be anywhere NEARLY as DANGEROUS as Gingrich or Santorum)

Obama will keep things going upwards, but may have the tendency to spend a wee-bit more than most folks would like.

Ron Paul would solve a LOT of problems but is a bit radical on some touchy subjects.

IN THE END, it better be either Ron Paul, Obama, and WORST comes to WORST... Romney the fake.

Kiss your rears goodbye if the other two get in...


Exactly. I think this is an area where everyone can agree; RP supporters and Obama supporters alike.

That is why I am saying that we should team up, if only for the rest of the primaries. If Obama supporters and RP supporters can ensure there is no presidential nominee Santorum/Gingrich/Romney we will all be better off. Then we can get down to the business of hating each other in the General Election. At least we will know, in our hear of hearts, that we averted complete disaster with the other three.

So, join me won't you? Help me and other RP supporters beat out the three stooges.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by Leftist
 



Definition of SHIBBOLETH 1 a : a word or saying used by adherents of a party, sect, or belief and usually regarded by others as empty of real meaning b : a widely held belief


Don't pretend you guys knew either. Going to have to use that at my next wine and cheese party.

OP I would rather see Obama in office than Santorum. Maybe I should just vote for Obama. Paul will never get the nomination. He is e-famous. Go up to ten random people on the street, ask who he is and 5 will say they don't know, 3 will say an idiot, and 2 will say our only hope. The last two was probably optimistic. I like him, but there is no way. It's not his fault, but there you have it.

ETA: Link
edit on 18-3-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


I hear you. But that is the same thing everyone says. "I like him but he won't get the nomination so why bother."

If a fraction of everyone who said that voted for Dr. Paul in the primaries he would be stomping the bajeezus out of the rest of the field (assume all votes are counted and every vote counts).

So, while you may believe that no one will beat Obama you have kind of proven my point. You like Dr. Paul but don't think he can win the nomination and will just sit on the sidelines and vote for Obama in the General Election.

See, this is putting yourself, and the rest of America, at risk of a Gingrich, Romney, Santorum presidency. If they get the nomination they do have SOME chance. So, why not help RP get the nomination so that at least you have someone who you kind of like and agree with in the event Obama loses.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Bakatono

So, join me won't you? Help me and other RP supporters beat out the three stooges.


Will do!

I certainly dont wish to see any of the three stooges in office (Gingrich, Santorum, Romney).



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by Bakatono
 


I get where you're coming from. I just don't think many Paul supporters are willing to admit that he is not as popular as they wish he were. I think a great number of conservatives would rather vote Obama than Paul. Same with undecided voters. Paul has the most credibility out of all the potential candidates, but unfortunately lacks credibility with the masses. At least it seems that way where I live.




If a fraction of everyone who said that voted for Dr. Paul in the primaries he would be stomping the bajeezus out of the rest of the field (assume all votes are counted and every vote counts). So, while you may believe that no one will beat Obama you have kind of proven my point. You like Dr. Paul but don't think he can win the nomination and will just sit on the sidelines and vote for Obama in the General Election.


Actually I will not vote for Obama. Only if Santorum manages to get the nomination (no way in hell). I just disagree that if everyone who liked Paul voted for him he would ever win. Everyone should vote for who they want, I'm just saying Democrats agreeing with 80% of Paul doesn't mean they don't agree more with Obama. I did a bad job of that earlier.
---------------------------------------------- ETA:

Ugh I've been a bit slow. So for the Dems, in the off chance that a Republican wins the election, they may as well have one they like, giving that Obama vote (Obama guaranteed for the nomination) to a Republican they could stomach.

Admitting I have been a complete dummy, no real excuse either sadly. I get you now OP. I agree. In a weird way that would give dem Dem's a voice in the Republican president (should one be elected).
edit on 18-3-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-3-2012 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by Bakatono
 


If I wasn't already a Ron Paul Supporter (I like being left alone) then this logic would work on me. I wouldn't want any chance of someone like Santorum(sp?) winning.

But I also think that's really risky, since if anyone can beat Obama it's probably Paul. Thinking about it that way, I would rather run against Romney/Santorum..

hmmm, yes I would support Ron Paul, for the "just in case scenario" But at the same time making sure everyone knew for sure that I was for Obama. Yes... Perfect.

Another danger for Obama is if Paul runs independent so it's something like Romney VS Obama VS Paul. This would be very dangerous for Obama basically assuring he loses. Since Paul will take his votes, and then your back there again with the risk of Romney winning.
edit on 3/18/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/18/2012 by Dustytoad because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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Paul may come out independent. If so will the voter fraud be so easy to manipulate? Will they cheat against Obama like this last time in the GOP ? People are starting to get arrested for knowing the rules of the delegate caucases. There are millions of Ron Paul fans. We are the most intelligent and most creative. Considering the types we are: military,veterans,regular people, college athletes, Joe Rogan and the MMA, NORMYL, Snoop Dogg,JayLeno, John Stewart,Cavuto ,,,we should be able to make a stand together. If Paul runs as an independent he will win (if the polls arent fixed). Cabn they cheat as bad in the final voting ?



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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Two words...Electoral. College. Our votes dont frickin matter.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by avatard
 


Your examples don't make me think Ron Paul supporters are bright. Joe Rogan? Snoop Dog? College athletes? Stewart? I think perhaps you could find better examples. You're a Ron Paul supporter so apparently you're bright enough.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Bakatono
So, assuming the above is true I would like to ask all of you this: When looking at the republican field and looking at the possibility that Obama could lose the election; who would you prefer to see in office? Santorum, Romney, Gingrich or Dr. Paul?


If I had no choice, I would reluctantly choose Romney. The others? Forget it.


If Dr. Paul is the closest to your ideologies


Aside from foreign policy, Ron Paul's other policies are as far from my views as they come.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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Any Republican except Ron Paul can beat Obama in the election.

Obama is prime to be taken down, but Ron Paul is the only one that can't pull it off.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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I did not vote for Obama.
And when I vote, I will not necessarily vote a party.
But I also will not be intimidated into voting for someone I do not believe in.
I am not a Ron Paul fan.
And I am slightly offended that you would ask me to compromise my integrity because of your fear tactics.
While the electoral college actually elects the president, I still feel my vote counts. I feel every vote counts. As long as everyone exercises the right to vote, they are making their feelings known.
I guess I am a fence sitter and might be until November.
Please do not try to scare me into voting the way you would like. It doesn't work for MSM and it won't work for you.

edit on 18-3-2012 by MissPoovey because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Domo1

OP I would rather see Obama in office than Santorum.


I would sooner see my horse in the white house than Obama for another four years. Santorum scares me because of the religion thing but really I think he's harmless in that regard. ( I don't like Santorum if that's not clear)

He puts his foot in his mouth and wears his religion on his sleeve but for the most part at least you know what his real beliefs are (even if those are scary and kooky) he means what he says...



Originally posted by Domo1 Maybe I should just vote for Obama.


I will take anyone over the current chameleon and liar in chief. A man who will tell you anything to get elected will do anything to stay in office.


Originally posted by Domo1

Paul will never get the nomination. He is e-famous. Go up to ten random people on the street, ask who he is and 5 will say they don't know, 3 will say an idiot, and 2 will say our only hope. The last two was probably optimistic. I like him, but there is no way. It's not his fault, but there you have it.


Personally, I will write in Paul...even if people tell me it's a waste. Enough games!

For the last 2-3 cycles I have heard so many people say "I like him...but why waste the vote?"

I was one of them - the thing about Paul is...like him, hate him, fear him, whatever, at least he’s honest about who he is and where he stands.

He is not perfect, not a great speaker, not the smartest man in the room always either - but he is who he is. He hasn't changed themes to fit the whims of the polls like the rest of these bozos (the R's and the D's alike).



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 11:30 PM
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If it's not Obama, I would rather see Romney in office than Paul.

I agree with Paul's foreign policy...but his domestic policies are worse than any of the other candidates.


People keep saying how there is no difference between Romney and Obama...so why wouldn't I want him? He is a fantastic flip-flopper...I doubt he keeps to any of his campaign rhetoric.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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So.... Wait... NOW, Paul is a liberal Republican? You guys cannot make up your minds huh?

A week ago I was attacked for wondering how many of Paul supporters are left-leaning, and now you say 80% of them are?



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Bakatono


For the record, i am not right-wing at all. Or left for that matter. I am middle. I am for liberty and freedom and limited government (which used to be right-wing). I am NOT for war, more taxes, huge government of inefficient social plans, government take-over of industry or other forms of neo-fascism.


Your description of "middle" is so far off, it doesn't even register. What you described is right or even far right depending on a deeper discussion of your beliefs. Middle, or moderate, is right in between left and right. As in, may be for or against taxes depending on the reason. May or may not support a war, etc. We take things on an individual basis and think, for example, that an increase in Federal taxes is not necessarily a bad thing if combined with spending cuts.

Most of what you claim is not middle at all.



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