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Atheism is just silly.

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posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by LuckyLucian
 


Look, I'm an Agnostic when it comes to the God question, but your quest for evidence will lead nowhere. We all know that love exists, but how do you measure it? How do you measure the love I have for my son? You will find circumstantial evidence from the way I treat him, but that's it. You can't measure it, or prove it.




Circumstantial evidence is also known as indirect evidence. It is distinguished from direct evidence, which, if believed, proves the existence of a particular fact without any inference or presumption required. Circumstantial evidence relates to a series of facts other than the particular fact sought to be proved. The party offering circumstantial evidence argues that this series of facts, by reason and experience, is so closely associated with the fact to be proved that the fact to be proved may be inferred simply from the existence of the circumstantial evidence.


There is circumstantial evidence that points to a designer, but you won't find prove in that pudding ...




posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by LuckyLucian
 

Mhmm. That's very amusing. We all know quite well there's a "belief" system for Atheists, no matter the protestations otherwise by Atheists. So, yes, let's keep repeating there isn't until it becomes true...

I'm still having fun ...



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 


It was pretty evident when you stated that the only "sensible" thing to be was agnostic, but thanks for clarifying. To be clear, I am on no quest for evidence because I already know it will lead nowhere. There is none. Circumstantial or otherwise.

We all already learn about the myth of love in high school psychology. Is it still something I feel? Yes. Is there a well studied, investigated and observed process that goes on inside our heads that causes this feeling? Yes. This is not circumstantial. That feeling you have for your child can indeed be measured and studied. It can even be chemically manipulated or simulated. This is direct scientific, empirical evidence.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:18 AM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 


Do tell, what is this belief system then...

(I just can't seem to stop. Maybe I'm not tired of this...)
(Am I a masochist?!?)
edit on 3/22/2012 by LuckyLucian because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by LuckyLucian
 


I posted this elsewhere but I think the idea has some merit


I was reading a blog by an ex-Christian who wrote something to the effect that when the religious pray they are actually communicating with a mental construct they have created – so they are having an internal dialogue with themselves but that they perceive this mental construct as separate to themselves (and they call this god)


Ok so maybe this thing with the religious not ‘getting’ something as simple as ‘atheism is just a lack of belief’ and the lengths they go to just to avoid accepting this idea is some kind of unconscious repression or coping mechanism?



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:31 AM
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reply to post by LuckyLucian
 


Very interesting answer. I could do a little high school reverse psychology and tell you that your answer says more about you than love. But I won't ...
I'd rather quote my favorite bible passage:




1 Corinthians 13

1 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


I guess if I adjusted certain hormone levels in my brain I'd be more loving ...



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by racasan
 


That's interesting. If you can remember the blog send me a U2U with the link.

If I had a believers mindset I would immediately reject that as an attack without even thinking about it. Since I'm an atheist however, I think that is an interesting theory and deserves some study no matter what the outcome is.

Since this was brought up, does anyone know if anti-psychotics effect religious people and their "feeling" or "connection" to god?



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by AllIsOne
 


Am I to take teachings about love seriously from a bronze age people that believed it was great fun to smash babies heads? I couldn't care less what it says. It also says some guy died and became a zombie that came back and ate Romans brains... wait, no it doesn't. Sorry. He didn't eat brains. Aliens just came and abducted the zombie.

I suppose you believe you can't get pills that make you happy either. I assure you, they have those.

(And if you're really concerned with your love levels, maybe try some ecstasy then tell me all the "love" you feel.)
edit on 3/22/2012 by LuckyLucian because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by LuckyLucian
reply to post by AllIsOne
 


Do tell, what is this belief system then...

(I just can't seem to stop. Maybe I'm not tired of this...)
(Am I a masochist?!?)
edit on 3/22/2012 by LuckyLucian because: (no reason given)


I believe I already gave you the answer. You're looking for proof and evidence in the wrong places.

Let's say your entire existence is in 2-D space, but God resides in 3-D. You could go through life claiming that 2-D is all there is and by "nature" you won't ever interact with 3-D. An "object" that hovers a millimeter above ground doesn't exist in a 2-D world. All I'm saying is that "reality" is probably unimaginably complex and I want to keep an open mind for that possibility.

I apologize for this convoluted explanation, but it's late here on the West Coast. Anyway, I've enjoyed your replies and sorry for this zipperhead bothering you



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by LuckyLucian
 


I don’t have that blog bookmarked but if you don’t mind some youtube videos


Why We Believe in Gods - Andy Thomson



and this was interesting - the mental construct thing was mentioned in this but I cannot remember where



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne
Your quote: "I do not BELIEVE your claim that gods exist". You didn't say "I know that no gods exist". If you believe something to be true, but you cannot prove it, it is then based in a belief system.
The reason I didn't say "I know that no gods exist" is because I don't know that. I just do not believe they do. What do you not understand about me saying "I do NOT believe"? I didn't say I believe something, I said I DO NOT believe it. How hard is this to understand people?



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne
Mhmm. That's very amusing. We all know quite well there's a "belief" system for Atheists, no matter the protestations otherwise by Atheists. So, yes, let's keep repeating there isn't until it becomes true...

I'm still having fun ...
Cool man, could you point me in the direction of an atheist church? I need to fellowship with my atheist brothers. I'm so tired of explaining what atheism is.
edit on 22-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 07:15 AM
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Silly folks, always want to brand everything as religions, a person without a religion is too much for them to comprehend.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by satron
Good. State some reasons you decided to be an atheist.
IMO, there's no credible evidence that gods exist.
edit on 21-3-2012 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)


So, you don't believe in God because there is lack of evidence to support any reason for you to believe in God. Your belief in the non-existence of God is dictated by empiricism. You need some evidence that can genuinely be taken in by your senses so that it can be more tangent to you, and until then, you're fine with just saying that you believe God doesn't exist.

Not saying that empiricism isn't a bad way to base your assumptions on, but if you lived in old world Europe, you would dismiss the notion that there was a "new world" across the ocean.

"I won't believe it until I see it, and until then, it doesn't really exist"

Empiricism isn't always correct, but it is a foundation around judgement and philosophy.

It's not a stretch to say that empiricism is a big part of your belief system. It's just how you feel comfortable disseminating information.

Atheism is your belief, and empircism is a big part of your belief system, or doctrine.


edit on 22-3-2012 by satron because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by LuckyLucian
I said "against my better judgement" because you've consistently displayed an inability to understand simple concepts like definitions and etymology of words, thus trying to discuss anything with you is only slightly more enjoyable than passing a kidney stone.

The Church of Satan is a relatively new concept and congregation.


Does not denigrate the fact that many Satanists are atheist. Why don't you worry about that point, because that's the point we are talking about.

Etymology of words isn't always important, you hold too much faith (
) in it. If you're getting at the definition of atheism, well, I haven't' seen a dictionary that states the definition to be "without God".



It's "LeVayanism" and is much more a brand of secular humanism than a religious philosophy. Satanism has a history that goes back much further than the mid-60's. It holds that Satan is the one true god and all the Abrahamic religions are, in fact, the "great lie" used to enslave mankind. The tenets and beliefs of Satanism predate the word Satan itself and can be traced back to cults in ancient Sumeria as much as 4,500 years before Christianity and some claim its roots may be in the cult of Inanna and others. Even within the Church of Satan they believe in divine and supernatural powers as well as magic, to a degree, which to me contradicts their own belief. I know, I know, a 'religion' contradicting itself, what a surprise...


I already agreed that not all Satanists were atheist, but some are.

All it takes it one Satanist with an atheistic belief system to overturn the whole claim.


Peter Gilmore's entire quote is:


"Satanism begins with atheism. We begin with the universe and say, "It's indifferent. There's no God, there's no Devil. No one cares!" So you then have to make a decision that places yourself at the center of your own subjective universe, because of course we can't have any kind of objective contact with everything that exists. That's rather arrogant and delusional, people who try to put things that way. So by making yourself the primary value in your life, you're your own God. By being your own God, you are comfortable about making your own decisions about what to value. What's positive to you, is good. What harms you, is evil. You extend it to things that you cherish and the people that you cherish. So it's actually very easy to see that it's a self-centered philosophy."


...which speaks to some Church of Satan adherents belief of individual divinity, sharing concepts with gnosticism.

I agree with this quote by Gilmore:


"...any fundamentalist fanaticism is a vast threat. I'm looking for humanity to have a secular, pluralistic culture. People should be able to follow whatever fantasies or religions they want, as long as they don't impose them on other people and force other people into doing things based upon whatever kind of holy writ they have."


Nice quotes, but I fail to see what they have to do with our discussion. They kind of overturned your point, so I don't see what you're getting at.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by AllIsOne
Not going to read 10 pages. I just want to say that the only sensible answer to the God question is Agnosticism. All others are faking it, also known as "believing". And yes, Atheism is also a belief system.

There is simply not enough data to move the scale in any direction. We simply don't know and that mystery is beautiful


I think you correct by saying that no one knows for sure and that makes agnosticism the correct position, but people can believe whatever the hell they want. Belief and knowledge aren't exactly tied together at the hip, but I'd like to think that if people found evidence that contradicts their belief, they should at least modify their belief.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by satron
Does not denigrate the fact that many Satanists are atheist. Why don't you worry about that point, because that's the point we are talking about.


If you are speaking of the Satan/God - - Ying/Yang - - - there is no connection to Atheism - - because Atheism lacks belief in a God.

To believe in Satan you would also need to believe in God.

The Church of Satan is totally different and has no connection to the Satan/God connection. Its based in Paganism and a few other things. One of the founders main things was orgies.

If you have to justify orgies by having a belief - - - you are not Atheist. However - some people do claim Atheism in defiance of God. That is not Atheism.



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by satron

Originally posted by AllIsOne
Not going to read 10 pages. I just want to say that the only sensible answer to the God question is Agnosticism. All others are faking it, also known as "believing". And yes, Atheism is also a belief system.

There is simply not enough data to move the scale in any direction. We simply don't know and that mystery is beautiful


I think you correct by saying that no one knows for sure and that makes agnosticism the correct position, but people can believe whatever the hell they want. Belief and knowledge aren't exactly tied together at the hip, but I'd like to think that if people found evidence that contradicts their belief, they should at least modify their belief.


Any honest straight forward Atheist is also Agnostic.

An Atheist knows God can not be proven or dis-proven.

In discussion an Atheist may say "there is no god" - - as part of the conversation or to make a point. But knows there is no factual belief either way.

ALL believers are Agnostic as well. Even though they claim to Know God. If you tell a believer they do not know if God exists - - - they get quite upset.

No One Knows.




edit on 22-3-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

If you are speaking of the Satan/God - - Ying/Yang - - - there is no connection to Atheism - - because Atheism lacks belief in a God.


There is a connection because it is the reality of the matter.


To believe in Satan you would also need to believe in God.


You don't have to believe in God to believe in Satan. Why does it require that you believe in God to believe in Satan? If you believed in Satan, wouldn't that be your God? I think it would be. Jews believe in God, but they don't believe in Satan as a being.

I could sit here and say I believe in Satan and not believe in God (God as the opposition to Satan)

Belief in one simply doesn't require belief in both.


The Church of Satan is totally different and has no connection to the Satan/God connection. Its based in Paganism and a few other things. One of the founders main things was orgies.


Oh yeah? Where would The Church of Satan be without Christianity? Nowhere.


If you have to justify orgies by having a belief - - - you are not Atheist. However - some people do claim Atheism in defiance of God. That is not Atheism.



Atheism doesn't require your thin interpretation to be realized.

I REALLY need to make my own thread. So many misled people.

edit on 22-3-2012 by satron because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Any honest straight forward Atheist is also Agnostic.


A gnostic whatever would be correct if they had proof.


An Atheist knows God can not be proven or dis-proven.


Wrong. No one knows that, and the likelihood seems slim. Doesn't mean it's out of the question.

Anyways, a theist could come to the same conclusion. Your opinion is biased, and you need to see that.


In discussion an Atheist may say "there is no god" - - as part of the conversation or to make a point. But knows there is no factual belief either way.


They need to quit saying that for the sake of the discussion because, by saying that, they are claiming they are privy to information that only they know.


ALL believers are Agnostic as well.


If they don't have proof, yes.


Even though they claim to Know God. If you tell a believer they do not know if God exists - - - they get quite upset.


It's their fault if they believe something that is false. Just like it's people's fault if they believe that atheism is a lack of belief.





No One Knows.


Above, you mentioned that atheists know that God doesn't exist. Now you're saying that no one knows. You need to consider what you are saying.




edit on 22-3-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-3-2012 by satron because: (no reason given)



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