watching loved ones die.

reply to post by rubbertramp


first let me give youmy condolences. second jab him yourself while hospice is not there. do you not give the drugs. My father and mother died at home. my mother with a brain tumor at age 60 in 2000. She basically was on morphine and we thought maybe we were drugging her to much. we let off the drugs and she came out of it in horrible pain. holding her head and screaming. she eventually started to drown in her secreations. absolutely horrible.

as for your father i believe that at some point you are gone and a new or subconscious person is there. My father had numerous hospital stays and everytime he remembered nothing. while in those states he was coherent answered questions appropiatly at most time but wasnt DAD!! When he was back to his old self he said he doesnt remember anything not even going to or being in the hospital. That gives me some relief that when we are close to dying were gone before it happens. The ones around you seem to suffer a tremendous burden. Dont take anything he says seriously. Know that he loves you and doesnt blame you for anything. Hopefully I explained my feelings appropiately. Again know that he is going to a far more better place than this and will be with you always
God Bless you and your family

I remember three years ago when I was 16, I had to watch my grandmother pass away. Months up until her death, she just went all out on her cigarettes with reckless abandon, landing her in the hospital multiple times until she finally gave out. She loved smoking and she loved gambling, but she wasn't always like that. I remember days when she would smile and just love me, and I would love her. Days spent listening to her stories, and days spent going to places together. Days spent eating, days spent laughing, days spent just living. But she died before she died.

Even in my morbid situation, I've gotta say it was painful watching her suffer like that. I hated her for what she did to herself, and how she made me feel, but now that's behind us. If I could kill her myself long before that to end all our sufferings, I probably would have. Yet now that I think about it, I probably wouldn't have had the guts since I couldn't bear seeing her on her deathbed. I couldn't bear seeing her die so I left the hospital before she did. I could have at least gave her soul a proper departure... To see her off to the next world, wherever that may have been.

I've never had someone die in my presence before. I wonder how that's like? The closest I've ever been to death is in a graveyard, which I visited for the first time in my life just a few days ago. It sure was heavy in there.

reply to post by merkej23


Very good reply..............who decides.

Now, there are two books out by Cynthia Kraack that talks about a society where Sally Dodge (the main character) is a older lady and has, according to her society, (post apocalypse America now divided into sections) outlived her "productivity / profit / usefulness" and if it weren't for her son being a doctor and doing some research would not have come across the reason everyone seems to die at around 65.............(meds which come from socialized / government controlled) are changed at around age 65, the meds look the same but they are meant to get rid of the "useless eaters"..................there are two books Cynthia Kraack did that I read and being 59 and healthy (so far) these two books scared me.

They are good reading though, called, "Minnesota Cold" (book 1) and "Ashwood" (book 2).

I use to be for euthanasia but now I'm not so sure.

We must be very careful on who gets to decide who lives and who dies. I also use to be for socialized medicine but after reading "Minnesota Cold" now I have changed my mind. I don't want or trust our US Government to have the power to decide when I am to live and when it is my time to die. And, if the government has control over our healthcare, they will always side with keeping only people around that produce and profit the corporations. Governments have shown no morals.

Possibly there is a reason for each and every soul and that purpose, that reason for existence is (my own humble opinion) not our right to make.

The same may be said for abortion but while I myself would never have one, do not feel it is my right or place to butt my nose into what another woman decides. Enough and off topic, abortion is a very very dark issue we have yet to address.

With that being said, with every surgery I have ever had I have always refused to use a bed pan, I was up 2-1/2 hours after a full navel to pubic C-Section to go to the bathroom.

Personally I would myself rather die (gently and painlessly) than have anyone have to clean up my waste and I really like being very clean. The thought of being "dirty" - yes I would take death over laying in my own filth any day.

And I take long showers and scrub myself 2-3 times all over, making sure I am really really clean.

(We all have our own weirdness quirks, mine is being squeaky clean and smelling nice).

I've been through this three times. When my brother died from pancreatic cancer (at home), it's my belief that a very compassionate nurse gave him an overdose of morphine to end his suffering (with the consent of his medical power of attorney).
The other two were not so fortunate. My dad was losing his mind, his biggest fear. So to that nurse I say thank you... sincerely, from the bottom of my heart. OP, I really do feel your pain.

so very sorry to hear what youre going through ... i feel your pain .... i watched a relative linger for days and it got harder by the day knowing theres nothing you can do to help.

I'm so sorry. Your story made me tear up.

I have never had to watch my own family members die (I have lost an uncle and grandma but was a teen at the time so my family wouldn't let us into the room in the end).

I have watched a "father-in-law" die though. He was in the hospital for a month and they put him in a coma so no one was able to say goodbye but we sat with him until the end. It is one of the worst things watching and waiting until the time comes.

You will be in my thoughts. Please take care of yourself!

Originally posted by AliWV
, it's my belief that a very compassionate nurse gave him an overdose of morphine to end his suffering
.

Maybe I am a little paranoid......Nurses do not give overdoses.....We help relieve pain. If it takes a larger dose to relieve the pain, that is what it is. As a nurse, and speaking probably for all nurses here, we don't like to have that word thrown around....We could end up in jail or lose our license. But of course I completely understand what you are saying.

Im sorry OP with what you are going through.

I went thru it too with my Mom and Dad, both had long term illnesses my Mom had end stage COPD and was 62 when she passed and my Dad had a history of stroke after stroke that took him at 55. I was 25 with my Dad when he died and 27 with my Mom when she died, it was so horrible the feelings the pain the stress the worry the sadness the dread and I got both phone calls in the middle of the night, I am the youngest of 5 and it still has taken a toll on me, it's been 10 years now since my Dad passed.
I am messed up now because of all of that but my point is, I noticed a lot of people telling you to go home and wait for the phone call and I just want to say don't feel guilty if you need a break and want to go home, but I just want to add that you may feel guilty and please don't take this the wrong way, I am giving my experience, you may feel guilty if you are not with your Dad when he passes, I was suppose to go up to my Dad and didn't that night because of a snow storm, that night he went into cardiac arrest and I didn't get a chance to talk to him ever again. I still feel guilty, the night my Mom died I again didn't go up and I always did almost every day and she died as well, I still live every day with that guilt. Im not saying that going home is wrong or that you shouldn't I just want to share my story and my feelings. Also a side note, my Mom talked goofy before she passed a week before she passed away I was sitting with her and out of the blue, she started to giggle and said stop the kitten from tickling her feet, There was no kitten, then continued to tell me of a beautiful woman came into the room and touched her feet and said Hi and smiled at her at the end of the bed and my Mom could not get over the beauty of this woman. There was no woman and I knew at that moment that she wasn't going to be around much longer but I didn't know it would happen a week later, I ran to the nurses and they told me it was just medication but I knew it wasnt that, my Mom was in her right frame of mind, I believe an angel visited her that day. I wish I went up to see her when she died, it was 1 am and she asked for a glass of water, when the nurse came back 2 minutes later, my Mom was gone. God Bless you and your Dad and family you are in my prayers.

Interesting take on the comments here. I have the unwelcome position of being able to in the past few months having dieing ( I am not sure about where the guy came up with the 17 times tho.) And sitting here waiting on try number 2.
Anyhow Either many folks are lieing about being dead or what happened to them. My take is different in many ways. First of all I have spoken to everyone in the room with me that day.First I remember nothing for the two days this went on. Absolutely nothing. But according to the folks here I had a interesting day there was something about I was apparently on a landing with stairs up and down ending in door ways the upper one lit lower one dark. No idea if I went tru either one. One nurse described me as being cold and clammy with no muscle control below the waist Taking a breath very slowly. So I either impersonated a lawyer or something happened. Proof to this was I could not stand without support for a day.But I think you see what you want/expect to see.angles or demons. I am sure many do see things. But how much is drugs? I still think they oded me on liquid morphine by accident as to many were shoving it down me and way a friend described it it was a drug od. Which hopefully brings me to the point.
After experiencing this would I want to suicide? Yes, if it could be done with a shot and no pain.Have had enough of it all ready. But would not have a issue of having the choice because I do not look forward to the next round which will be coming up soon No way to know how bad it will be. I am still trying to get adjusted to last round.

Apologies if this post is random or in the wrong place as trying to make a post while under 180 mg of morphine is harder than I thought it would be. Anyhow best of luck to your friend/father. Just keep telling yourself it is not about you but him.

reply to post by rubbertramp


In 2007, I watched my mother-in-law pass her last breath from cancer. In 2008, I lost my only brother to the same disease... though I can't escape the suspicion that much of their suffering and rapid demise was more attributal to the chemicals and treatments plied upon them than the cancers themselves.

Today, I am now watching my-88 year-old mother slowly fade as she clings to each day after a pulmonary embolism and the horrid side effects of blood thinners and a diet that takes the joy out of living.

It's not easy but someday, it will be our turn as well. And that is perhaps at least some portion of the reason why, when we are young and immortal, we tend to turn away from such misery and sadness.

I have found peace in my firm belief that... there is something more to the human condition than this physical existence. There is too much invested in us, as a species, to simply set us free to live and learn and evolve, only to have all of that go to some dark nothingness of waste in the end.

Whether it is with God or some universally eternal constant, we don't just come to a dead end. We go on and someday, we will all be together again.

Best wishes

reply to post by rubbertramp


Im sorry for what you are experiencing right now but you have to make time for yourself. When i was in the same boat as you time on my own like a bath, run, trip to the gym will take alot of the pressure off.

Hope that helps you.

reply to post by Dragonsbreaths


Wow Dragonsbreath, I am in shock reading your post, I am so emotional right now I wish I can just make everything better for you, I don't know what else to say I am not good with words but my heart goes out to you, God Bless you.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Whether it is with God or some universally eternal constant, we don't just come to a dead end. We go on and someday, we will all be together again.

Best wishes

What a beautiful post the last thing you put down really is so touching, I am sorry for your loss and what your Mom is going thru, I have been thru it too with my Mom with the pulmonary issues and its so hard and my thoughts and prayers are with you both. Thank you for that last sentence it was such a nice thing to read.

reply to post by rubbertramp


1st-you could ask him why he is hanging on to life (when the drugs are not talking for him).
2nd-depends on his answer. If he is waiting FOR SOMEONE, then either get that SOMEONE there so he can leave in peace. If he is waiting on something else that may not or cannot happen, then ask him with the upmost love in your heart to simply give up the spirit and go wait for you on the other side.
3rd-If he refuses, just tell him there will be no pain on the other side and he will feel love

(As a side note: I always ask my loved ones to visit me from the other side and give me a sign that they are okay. Because of this, I have been "haunted" for brief periods of time, but nothing I can't handle.)

I hope this helps.

Death with dignity should be an issue between the patient, there familly and the doctor. Should'nt be anything illegal about it. That's my two cents anyway.

My mother went to hospice last year about this time. I stayed with her almost every night. She seemed fine (relatively) for the first week...but then the slope down was steep. I feel your pain, but the best thing to do is stay with him and be there when he passes. Hold his hand. Read the Book of John to him, even if you think he cannot hear or understand. Be his protector.

--Av

reply to post by rubbertramp


We euthanise animals to alleviate their continued suffering. The word used is Humane. We reserve being humane for animals but for ourselves, we must endure suffering it seems.

The other problem many people could foresee is a complete medical misuse of euthanasia. Of course there is also a small matter of the line between assisting someone in their passing or killing someone. At what point is a person who is on such a high dose of medication able to make a clear decision? Whether they talked to family and made it clear prior to their decline, it could be argued that what seems like a brief moment of clarity could be nothing more than a drug induced plea.

I feel for any family member in this position and understand where you are coming from. I also understand the potential for misuse would be so great that that danger to otherwise reasonably healthy elderly simply to save tax payer $$$ or to access their personal wealth outweigh the suffering of those going through a slow deterioration where they can at least have some relief of pain to a degree and are made as comfortable as possible where not so long ago they would have suffered in agony.

Just wanted to add my expierence. Summer of 2010 start of June, I was 25. Parents come from hospital I presumed it was to do with my mums kidneys (she was due to have dialysis). They got in and I was asked to come downstairs. My parents broke the news that my mum had cancer. It took only 5 months till October 13th 2010 for the cancer to take the life of my mum, we wont go into details as alot of you who have been replying have been through it.

My mum was a very active lady (she was only 58) she never smoked and drank no more than your average person would. When she was first confirmed as having cancer she swore it wouldn't let her stop her from doing what she enjoyed, even when she worked for the local hospital doing admin work for the cancer department. She knew what treatment she might get (if any) and he knew how long she had left. But she still continued to get about her business. However this was only for the first few months after being diagnosed.

Nearer to her end I slowly saw the life being drained from her and when she given morphine for the pain she started taking a turn for the worse. During the night you'd hear her talking randomly even if she was sleeping. Daytime she was confined to her bed which I knew she hated but she couldn't move. Living at home I got to see my mum go from a active healthy women to a motionless frail lady until the final day when I asked my dad if it was ok to go to the local bar n have a few quiet drinks with two friends. The time I walked through the door of the bar I received a call from my dad asking me to come home.

I was greeted by my dad in tears and to the only words to come from his mouth were "she's gone". I forgot to mention my dad had cared for her 24/7 to wash and change her. As a devoted husband he thought that he should be the one to care for her. The last memory I had was feeling my mums cold skin as I hugged her for the last time seeing her cold hands n lips slowly turning blue. I vowed from that moment to take my mums strength n accept what had happened. From that moment on I knew that I could go on living knowing that as a young adult this was the worse thing I'd experience in my whole life. However I share my pain with others and help them through similar problems as at the minute I have a close friend who's mum is going through the same.

Anyone who wants to ask questions please feel free from what I've learnt it helps to talk than to hide your emotions and problems.

Peace out from the PM

This is a particularly sensitive issue. I really feel for you going through this. I truly wish no one suffered.

It's hard to watch someone go through that part of their life. And that's the main point I want to make really. It is actually making you suffer to watch it. And it is pretty natural to want to make that suffering stop by ending their life.

I want to mention one thing though. I have recently had a friend going through this with a close relative of his. At one point he became very upset that he would never get to speak to his relative again. And he had a lot to say.

A few days later, that relative came to and was lucid for some days. They talked and cried together (which seemed a miracle given the condition of the person), and his relative reported no pain, put on weight and gained strength. Since then they have relapsed and they are much worse than before, clearly very near the end.

Another thing of note is that they were given 24-48 hours to live back in October some time, and are still alive today. All this happened since then.

I don't really want to draw any conclusions from all of this or give you some kind of advice. This is just how things are some times. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions. What you are going through is very hard, and no one can really tell you how to feel or what to think. But maybe some more information about the sorts of things that can happen and why might help, I don't know.

reply to post by ofhumandescent




I'm sorry but i was dead before i got there, it was not drug induced. There was no light, not really even darkness/nothingness, zip zilch Nada blank. There is no way to explain the experience.

I have talked to many people about what i experience and have found that everyone that i have spoken to experienced the same thing and only one that saw a light and experienced something different, But all so that is what he believed happens anyway. The rest i spoke 2 believed in no higher power.

And no I am not afraid of death, I have been patched up as best they can and they gave me a 10% change of it happening again. For the second time. First time it happened i was lucky and only my left lung collapsed 100%.

It all apart of life, its not about what happens to you, it is about how you rise up after.

My heart goes out to he Op, I have never experienced the other side of watching a loved one pass on.