To All Seekers of Understanding: The War on Human Entropy

Sorry OP. this site is reaming with God haters so don't expect to get much support.
For those of you that think all of mankind is so moral and good, explain to me all the crazy deviates, rapists murderers/ serial killers, pedophiles, molesters, beaters of women and children, animal abusers, the corrupt and greedy. I know the big churches are corrupt and filled with evil men, but you can find that in every cornerstone of the globe.
Religion was created to bring civility, laws, to enable us to better live together.
It was when these loving, moral men you speak of infiltrated the true Word, and crushed it, just like everything else they touch.
True good humans are few and far between. I used to work in an ER at night. I saw so many atrocities, I had to quit, because I was loosing faith in my fellow man. I actually developed PVC's and chronic hives working there, the moral stress was so bad.
The true face of man is hideous.

reply to post by miniatus


While I don't wanna argue little details. I believe I read an article where they found very,very historic peoples with injuries from spears. I don't know if religion has anything to do with it,that being killing, I mean animals do it, not just for food.. Although I do believe certain factors such as religion may have took it to the next level... So if we did indeed develop gods to answer things we did not know.. Where did we get the idea of gods? I mean its crazy to think us "animals" developed the notion of gods just from not being able to explain things...We must have got the idea from somewhere?

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
Sorry OP. this site is reaming with God haters so don't expect to get much support.
For those of you that think all of mankind is so moral and good, explain to me all the crazy deviates, rapists murderers/ serial killers, pedophiles, molesters, beaters of women and children, animal abusers, the corrupt and greedy. I know the big churches are corrupt and filled with evil men, but you can find that in every cornerstone of the globe.

A lot of those people are what they are regardless of religion.. how many of those pedophiles are priests? .. hint.. more than a few

I'm not a God hater, I have a lot of respect for what religion .. it's better points.. but I think it's self delusion to think it's what keeps us from murdering, raping and killing each other.. and if religion is what keeps you from doing that rather than your own self.. you have serious problems that extend well beyond any religion.. ( not you personally.. I'm being general ) ..

I don't want a society that is being moral just because they are told to for fear of damnation.. I want a society that is moral because it's just the right thing to do .. it's how I would want to be treated so it's how I treat you.. General concern about the well being of my neighbors, friends and family... It exists.. it's not the product of religion, it's the product of empathy, emotion and a social society .. All societies will have the bad elements..

Originally posted by jdftp
reply to post by miniatus

 

While I don't wanna argue little details. I believe I read an article where they found very,very historic peoples with injuries from spears. I don't know if religion has anything to do with it,that being killing, I mean animals do it, not just for food.. Although I do believe certain factors such as religion may have took it to the next level... So if we did indeed develop gods to answer things we did not know.. Where did we get the idea of gods? I mean its crazy to think us "animals" developed the notion of gods just from not being able to explain things...We must have got the idea from somewhere?

God is a man-made word that developed over time. Before, it was called other words that were actually descriptions instead of just labels with meanings attached.

Essentially, there weren't "gods" so much as powerful entities who could control various aspects of nature and had access to other worlds and abilities. The rest was written and printed by us.

Originally posted by jdftp
reply to post by miniatus

 

While I don't wanna argue little details. I believe I read an article where they found very,very historic peoples with injuries from spears. I don't know if religion has anything to do with it,that being killing, I mean animals do it, not just for food.. Although I do believe certain factors such as religion may have took it to the next level... So if we did indeed develop gods to answer things we did not know.. Where did we get the idea of gods? I mean its crazy to think us "animals" developed the notion of gods just from not being able to explain things...We must have got the idea from somewhere?

Where did we get the concept for anything? .. we're not total morons... we have learned over time.. mythology and story telling has been around for as long as communication.. you can find it on cave walls .. Conflict has always existed too .. If we are all cave men and I'm feeding my family from today's hunt.. and someone invades my cave putting my family at risk.. you'll find conflict.. religion or not, conflict has always been a part of our lives.. All you're really showing is that conflict exists with or without .. we already know full well it exists with religion.. =) so no surprises there.

Check out the science fiction section at your local library and you'll find concepts that cover almost everything imaginable.. the concept of a deity is pretty basic if you ask me .. you see the world around you, you imagine something greater than you must have done it .. a God.. why do we go there? it's too hard to wrap our minds around it otherwise.. we also used to think fire was magic, so go figure.

reply to post by sickofitall2012


I beg to differ. I believe the true face of man is not hideous. Take a look at a child. Somewhere along the lines we allow ourselves to become under this "spell". Though it seems that way, I believe that is not our true nature.We have been through thousands of years of manipulation and we may just be beginning to see past it all. We can't say we know the true nature of man when for generations we have not been able to see man act within the environment it was intended to be in.. Or, without certain factors such as ...(you guys know them).

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
Sorry OP. this site is reaming with God haters so don't expect to get much support.
For those of you that think all of mankind is so moral and good, explain to me all the crazy deviates, rapists murderers/ serial killers, pedophiles, molesters, beaters of women and children, animal abusers, the corrupt and greedy. I know the big churches are corrupt and filled with evil men, but you can find that in every cornerstone of the globe.

A lot of those people are what they are regardless of religion.. how many of those pedophiles are priests? .. hint.. more than a few

I'm not a God hater, I have a lot of respect for what religion .. it's better points.. but I think it's self delusion to think it's what keeps us from murdering, raping and killing each other.. and if religion is what keeps you from doing that rather than your own self.. you have serious problems that extend well beyond any religion.. ( not you personally.. I'm being general ) ..

I don't want a society that is being moral just because they are told to for fear of damnation.. I want a society that is moral because it's just the right thing to do .. it's how I would want to be treated so it's how I treat you.. General concern about the well being of my neighbors, friends and family... It exists.. it's not the product of religion, it's the product of empathy, emotion and a social society .. All societies will have the bad elements..

Ah...but how many rapists are priests? Consider that.

Fear is the only way to control a society ruled by desire. And before you argue...that is exactly what we are. Corporations want us to be overwhelmed by desire, so we will buy into propaganda and be their obedient little chattel to be milked for money and killed for money.

Moral for the right thing to do? Mankind wants something that gives back. And no, warm fuzzy feelings don't fill our stomach or make us drunk. It's a sad truth...and that's why religion is necessary.

Imagine a world where everyone sat around and drank and smoked and fornicated and played pool or did their nails and never did anything unless they desired to. What would we get done? Where would we go? What would be accomplished?

We would die because if their is one thing more powerful than desire, it's the urge to blame. No one wants to be at fault, and so no one would take responsibility. And that raises the opportunity for someone to take charge and raise an empire of tyranny.

Is that what you want? Is that your idea of a perfect world?

Wow...

I only read the first five posts or so and I could see where this was going.

First off...a little tiny background of me. I work in construction engineering and my hobbies include reading philosophy, theology, psychology, a little physics and some psuedo science....go figure. Also do woodcarving...but...who cares right?

I am personally agnostic...I tend to think that there is a universal mind behind the Universe but I don't think we can comprehend it and I don't think any one religion can speak on it's behalf. I do think that maybe all religions combined may indeed carry bits and pieces of the truth...but that is for another discussion.

I don't think the Christians originally had a bad agenda...they viewed the world through a very small lens and they thought they were creating a doctrine to help mankind resist the powers of the dark principalities...even when those principalities may actually exist within us and not surrounding....

Some think that evil lies in the hearts of men and others say it is an outside force....perhaps it is both...

The fundamentals of Buddhism is to achieve a state where you are not reincarnated anymore...(this is as simple as I can state it)...this is achieved by the fundamental truths....here is the simplest form of Buddhism I have ever found...it is by no means inclusive but it is a quick shot view of the basics and maybe a lot of you should read this.
acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

Here is another philosophy to consider...
www.daodejing.net...

I have even read the First Itations of I Rastafari (which is nothing at all like you might think it is)

Do not read these with a prejudiced mind...read them with a hope of understanding and empathy and they will open your eyes and your heart to your fellow man....regardless of his skin color or religion.

The same can be said for the Koran and the Bhagavad-Gita. They contain human thoughts and ponderings of the greater meanings of life. No one is absolutely right and no one is absolutely wrong.

reply to post by sickofitall2012


The true face of humankind is beautiful. If you can't see it, then that means you're still living in ignorance.

Duality is programmed into our society, it stops us from realizing our Oneness and our true beauty and sovereignty. All life exists for the conscious. That is God's love, God's gift.

We are apart of God, God is within all of us. To say we are ugly or wretched is quite literally insulting God.

reply to post by Starchild23

I think the church maintains written and living witness of a disconnect in human nature...
...and of the non-human origins of this disconnect.

The problem is a historical one, that is both moral, physical and inter-dimensional...
...and without the living and written witness we would already have destroyed ourselves or have been destroyed.

The witness is maintained by internal and external conflict...
...division within the church is what keeps it alive...
...and criticism from those outside, causes it to grow...
....so all who agree or disagree are part of the process.

reply to post by Starchild23


You need to take off your cultural blinders.

Primitive Hunter gatherer societies existed for tens of thousands of years with out religious morality police or governments telling them what to do.

They were anatomically and mentally just as capable as us, so why is it that we can't get along and they can and still do? Is it because Humans are flawed and violent or is because our culture breeds flawed and violent people?

reply to post by Starchild23


What needs to be done, or where do we need to go, or accomplish what?

Just be. Here. Now.

reply to post by sickofitall2012


www.youtube.com...

Ten minutes to educate yourself. The San are one of the oldest cultures on earth. They don't have any of the pathologies of our culture.

Using logic is it Humans that are flawed? Or is it our culture which creates flawed humans?

Originally posted by jdftp
reply to post by sickofitall2012

 

I beg to differ. I believe the true face of man is not hideous. Take a look at a child. Somewhere along the lines we allow ourselves to become under this "spell". Though it seems that way, I believe that is not our true nature.We have been through thousands of years of manipulation and we may just be beginning to see past it all. We can't say we know the true nature of man when for generations we have not been able to see man act within the environment it was intended to be in.. Or, without certain factors such as ...(you guys know them).

I'm sorry, but the word MAN means MAN, not child.
Men have always been in control, not children, not women.
MAN has brought us to this tipping point.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by sickofitall2012

 

www.youtube.com...

Ten minutes to educate yourself. The San are one of the oldest cultures on earth. They don't have any of the pathologies of our culture.

Using logic is it Humans that are flawed? Or is it our culture which creates flawed humans?

That's sweet, but can you tell me that no one in that tribe has ever hurt anyone, struck a child or woman, raped a child or woman. Living pure is healthier, but there is no way you can tell me that you know that there has never been any violence there, being such an old culture.
There's a bad apple in every bunch.
Plus, I'm sure that they have societal rules, all cultures do. Religion or otherwise.
Work in a jail or an ER, you'll see how loving men are.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
reply to post by sickofitall2012

 

The true face of humankind is beautiful. If you can't see it, then that means you're still living in ignorance.

Duality is programmed into our society, it stops us from realizing our Oneness and our true beauty and sovereignty. All life exists for the conscious. That is God's love, God's gift.

We are apart of God, God is within all of us. To say we are ugly or wretched is quite literally insulting God.

STOP misquoting me.
I said MAN. Do you people not know the difference between the word man, woman and child.
Read closer please.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by Starchild23

 

You need to take off your cultural blinders.

Primitive Hunter gatherer societies existed for tens of thousands of years with out religious morality police or governments telling them what to do.

They were anatomically and mentally just as capable as us, so why is it that we can't get along and they can and still do? Is it because Humans are flawed and violent or is because our culture breeds flawed and violent people?

Moral laws were put in place to shame the animal behavior of ancient man. Where do you think a lot of STD's came from.
Beastiality.
Didn't help much though, still rampant today.
I met one of those in the ER too.

Originally posted by sickofitall2012
Work in a jail or an ER, you'll see how loving men are.

That's very limited experience. For every atrocity there's an equally divine act of kindness performed.

The idea that men are evil comes from the fact that your assumptions have been wrong-- men are not evil, some men are evil, just like some men are genuinely good. Most men are somewhere in the middle.

One of my favorite Socrates quotes:

Misanthropy arises from the too great confidence of inexperience; you trust a man and think him altogether true and good and faithful, and then in a little while he turns out to be false and knavish; and then another and another, and when this has happened several times to a man, especially within the circle of his most trusted friends, as he deems them, and he has often quarreled with them, he at last hates all men, and believes that no one has any good in him at all[...] The reason is that a man, having to deal with other men, has no knowledge of them; for if he had knowledge he would have known the true state of the case, that few are the good and few the evil, and that the great majority are in the interval between them.

Originally posted by sickofitall2012

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
reply to post by sickofitall2012

 

The true face of humankind is beautiful. If you can't see it, then that means you're still living in ignorance.

Duality is programmed into our society, it stops us from realizing our Oneness and our true beauty and sovereignty. All life exists for the conscious. That is God's love, God's gift.

We are apart of God, God is within all of us. To say we are ugly or wretched is quite literally insulting God.

STOP misquoting me.
I said MAN. Do you people not know the difference between the word man, woman and child.
Read closer please.

Sorry Miss. (or Mr.) Literal. I didn't think you had a sexist agenda.

What I said makes even more sense now. Male and female is just another duality.

Religion is a part of all of our experience for a reason. It has about served it's purpose though.