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The Staff Sergeant who became a killer.....

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posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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There have been a number of threads now which make this man look like the second coming of the Anti-Christ. If not the Big Guy, then at least one of his henchmen, sent ahead to lay the ground work.

I'd like to take a different take and suggest a different possible side to this whole thing. This is based in part on this article I found today, but not entirely. There has been enough here that didn't make sense for this theory to have existed almost from the moment the news broke. Here is what I found...

Army capt.: Afghan killing suspect has saved lives


SEATTLE (AP) -- A former platoon leader for the soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan civilians says the allegations are "100 percent out of character" for the man, whom he described as a model soldier who has saved other soldiers' lives.



Bales enlisted about two months after 9/11 and had served with the 3rd Stryker Brigade based at Joint Base Lewis-McChord since Sept 11, 2002.

He became a staff sergeant in April 2008, following his second deployment in Iraq. He went to Iraq one more time before his fourth deployment, to Afghanistan.


Not the biography so far for an aspiring spree killer or mad dog lunatic.


Alexander said he and others who served with Bales were stunned by the allegations.

Military officials say that after drinking on a southern Afghanistan base, the 38-year-old staff sergeant crept away March 11 to two slumbering villages, shooting his victims and setting many of them on fire. Eleven of those killed belonged to one family. Nine were children.
Source

These are but a few examples from this article and others that paint a very different picture of this man than his actions would suggest of him. He isn't a youngster, and he isn't from the generation that grew up playing shooter games and marking time passed by headshots gained. By reports, he traded in a very successful and profitable career like many after 9/11 and signed up a little late to serve his nation.

There are two things I think about when I look at this, given the trickle of facts were getting. This comes aside from the fact the victims all appear to be related in some reports..giving rise to a very personal motive at work here.

1). He was a support troop in a Special Operations base dedicated to village level support and assistance programs inside the population. Hmmm... Well, I never saw quite the same flowery descriptions used for the Phoenix Program of another war...but I wonder how different the two really are in how Phoenix actually DID operate vs. the Hollywood depiction of it? The point is....What did he see as a part of his time on that base that was different from his other 3 combat tours? Why snap now? Why like this?

2). He's described by all so far as being the type of NCO that en enlisted man loves to find above him. A trooper's trooper for getting his men what they need and insuring they're well covered and cared for....

This suggestion may anger some and cause others to laugh..but consider it for at least a moment.

Is it POSSIBLE....just possible...that after seeing more horror than he'd seen before in Iraq, and after seeing a good friend blown apart shortly before this...he downed a few drinks and got to some real stupid thinking? Given his history as described by those who knew him best...is it possible that in this fuzzy state of thinking, and with a real grudge to pursue ANYWAY...it crossed his mind that an atrocity of this kind as this stage of the war could very well lead to the end of United States Involvement IN the war altogether?

Was this entirely lost on him, or was it more than just a PART of the reason he did it?

It makes *NO* difference for punishment and it should do NOTHING to mitigate the killing spree he went on. However, understanding a thing like this when it comes from a man who showed every sign of being the OPPOSITE of what this suggests is critical. It's critical if we don't want more.


One final note..... The record now indicates he was only on his 4th combat deployment. That is interesting because the material also shows he signed up right after the towers came down..so he's been in a fighting army for the entire duration of the wars. How long were those first 3? Stop lossed out to 15 months and more? I wonder... How far HAD this man been pushed beyond his personal breaking point..and how many more must we STOP pushing now before we need more room at Leavenworth for tragedies which should never happen at all?




posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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2 villages = multiple shooters. , Let's say it was him - he had help. I tend lean more to the theory of a group of shooters rather than just a lone gunman. The story is suspect at best.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

All I know is that (in the UK at least) not just anyone can become a Staff or a Sergeant. You can join Officer school straight away as Lieutenant but no one can become a Sarge immediately. You have to earn it through service, perseverance and a bucketload of hard work. They are (rightly imho) highly considered professionals who often give more of a damn for the men they are in charge of than the average Officer. Sure they can be bastards but that is usually just a tactic they use.

It's a sad story all round but something just doesn't smell quite right. I am sure as time progresses we will learn more.

Peace



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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the lone gunmen story is much better to feed the people. if it were known that a group had done this it might
infer that the military was losing its grip.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Manhater
 

I've read the same reports...and I haven't gotten around to actually pulling this area up on Google Maps to start marking yard distances from gates to windows and doorway to doorway for distance he must have traveled between crime scenes, while going all out.

What I've heard so far isn't something beyond the pale though... He was a bit drunk, so not really thinking in terms of human compassion or mercy on even that most basic level. How long would it take you to grab a large club and crush a dozen water melons along table? How much longer to splash accelerant all around and at least one of the crime scenes?

For an average criminal that still has human qualities and the ability to experience empathy on any level...it'd be a process and a timelly one. Not for physical action, but the mental issues of doing it. For someone who has served since 2001 in one of the worse wars recent history has seen? Well....... Just how long WOULD they physical actions have taken if the humans being murdered held no more meaning than ripe melons and targets to destroy?

I find the inhumanity of it, given the time involved, to be staggering and screaming for understanding. I don't necessarily see the act itself as being impossible. ESPECIALLY at night, in a village and if U.S. forces weren't SURE that was an American M-4 being fired in the hands on an American Solider.

Who in their right mind would charge into the darkness, half cocked, to find a Taliban task force going about their grisly business...as DOES happen often enough over there? Did they even know which was which while the crime was ongoing?



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Why is everyone trying to minimize what this man did?

He KILLED 16 INNOCENT PEOPLE INCLUDING NINE CHILDREN.

I don't care what he was involved in, what he'd seen, who he is, how many tours he served. he VOLUNTEERED to join the army and he CHOSE to MURDER women and children.

People are trying to use his family to show that he had a good character - this is pure crap. The guy had kids, yet he still chose to MURDER kids. I have kids, and since I became a father I think of children in a whole new light, because now I understand how little and helpless they are in many situations. The fact that this man had kids yet STILL killed women and children just goes to show exactly how evil he is. When I became a father my heart began to break EVERY TIME I hear or read news about children being victimized.. This guy either is immune to that or he believes that Afghan kids aren't worth as much as white kids.. Either way he's garbage and should be dealt with appropriately.

I drink.. Never have I been so drunk (and I've been on some benders) where I lost even an ounce of value for human or animal life. Being drunk doesn't change who you are, it amplifies who you are. This guy has been a murderer for a long time, only just recently has he acted on it.

I don't believe in the death penalty, but I would absolutely support allowing the Afghan people to take jurisdiction in this matter. The man killed Afghanis, he needs to be tried by Afghan people.
edit on 18-3-2012 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 

All I know is that (in the UK at least) not just anyone can become a Staff or a Sergeant. You can join Officer school straight away as Lieutenant but no one can become a Sarge immediately. You have to earn it through service, perseverance and a bucketload of hard work. They are (rightly imho) highly considered professionals who often give more of a damn for the men they are in charge of than the average Officer. Sure they can be bastards but that is usually just a tactic they use.

It's a sad story all round but something just doesn't smell quite right. I am sure as time progresses we will learn more.

Peace





Yeah but in the state you get promoted for nothing. Its why they have about 50 million generals all aged about 5 years old and everyone has a medals for everything over in the states. They use it motivation over there rather than for true dedication. In the UK or French or German army you don't get a medal unless you have practically won a war single handedly, and even then you get a @well done mate' not a chest full of medals.



I too though do not think this guy acted alone.

I think this was done purposefully, maybe in retaliation for the two officers shot over the burning of that nonsense book the koran!!

Think about it!!
edit on 18-3-2012 by Six6Six because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Six6Six
 


Yep a few I know of lol
Getting a high pass on your fitness test = medal
getting a high pass on your shooting test = medal
Hell the USAF did ( not sure about now ) got a medal if they flew OVER northern Ireland !!!
Says it all
An American s/sgt equates to a European corporal ....ish borderline sgt
Nice to see some constructive threads regarding this travesty though
edit on 18-3-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by Manhater
2 villages = multiple shooters. , Let's say it was him - he had help. I tend lean more to the theory of a group of shooters rather than just a lone gunman. The story is suspect at best.


or the witnesses are....



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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This incident has captured the concerns of many, in part, because it has so much intrigue going on that many like myself, suspect something is not right with this incident.

Many are suspicious of what we have been told regarding this incident and the odd circumstances of how this incident happened.

We have been told many things that just dont seem to add up, unless, you begin to see this incident from a far removed perspective which I am about to offer as food for thought and for ATS discussion.

I ask for you indulgence in this matter, for in order to explain what I am about to tell you, first you must have some very brief background data that is needed to better understand my remarks that concern the shooter accused of being a lone gunman on a rampage killing spree.

We have heard reports that as many as 20 people were witnessed as being involved and here is where these numbers and the shooter begin to separate into the lone shooter accusation and why no one understands what they are reading and hearing involving this incident, because although we are hearing elements of the truth, we are not seeing those elements in regard to the bigger picture and that is what I am about to get into so, here we go.

I have recently reported and stated that the activist Andrew Breitbart death which carries intrigue of its own was part of a ritual that has been ongoing for some time.

In order to identify those events as ritually related, there has to be a special ritual coding of a specific number that denotes the ritual aspects being pursued.

Andrew Breitbart died on 03-01-12 which adds to 7. His age at death was 43 which adds to 7 and if that was not enough to remove the coincidence remark, I offer one more telling bit of evidence but before I show it, I must add that in addition to the 03-01-12 date of death for Andrew Breitbart, we also have the Greece default that occurred on 03-10-12 which also adds to 7 and the time reported was listed as 0349 am. The time adds to 3+4=7+9=16=7 and AM=1-13 or 113.

What I offer next is why I know that the Staff Sgt shooter incident is much more than just any shooting spree by some deranged soldier.

In all 31 days of March there are only 2 dates in all of March that add to a pure 7 by just simple addition. I discovered this as part of my research and what I found is that the only two dates in March that add to the ritual number 7 are 03-01-12 and 03-10-12.

Immediately I said how convenient, but how telling for it also showed that the death of Breitbart on 03-01-12 was a sacrificial offering that was part of a three step process of the ritual begin offered. Part one is the death of Breitbart on a 7 day and the second part was the Greece default on a 7 date.

Since there only two dates in all of March that add to 7 and these two events occurred on those two special 7 dates also revealed that the ritual was still to be completed by some final event on 03-11-12.

When I added the "dates" of 03-01-12 and 03-10-12, I got a 11 and this is when I knew that the final day of this three part ritual would be 03-11-12.

While I did not know what event would be committed or where, I knew that once Greece defaulted that the ritual had moved overseas and so, I began looking for incidents that might complete the ritual phases I knew were being acted out.

Since 11 was shown to us in the numbers by the addition of 1 and 10, key numbers were disclosed to us by the following facts: 16 died which adds to 7. The deaths were reported as 11 in one family, 9 children and evidence of the burning of bodies.

The shooter is 38 yrs old which is 11. Two villages were involved as in twins and the witness reports of the 20 plus people sightings were most likely high ranking 13 ritual participants and a 7 man protection group.

Joined Army 2 months after 911=9+2=11. Assigned 3d Bde 0911=11

The shooter mind controlled or drugged wakes up at 3 am goes on a shooting spree and then gets accused of being the lone gunmen is to hide the 20 plus people that were present for the ritual sacrifice of the 9 children and the burning alive of the children and innocent victims sacrificed by the numbers on the final part of what had begun with the earlier death of Breitbart and the default of Greece.

Since this third part of the conspiracy relies on the first two parts of this ritual being factual, I offer you my graphic evidence that if part one and two are factual then part three is the Army shooting incident which is the final proof that what we have witnessed, was a ritual sacrifice that now allows the event to be used for political and distraction purposes.



Lastly, is the use of fire excellerants on the bodies, to me denotes premeditated intent to burn bodies which I do not think one man alone could do by himself. Since the burning of the victims was the ritual, there will come a point where I am certain the shooter will not remember anything.

Thanks again for the thread.



posted on Mar, 18 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
By reports, he traded in a very successful and profitable career like many after 9/11 and signed up a little late to serve his nation.


He joined the Army after an investment opportunity in FL went bad.




There are two things I think about when I look at this, given the trickle of facts were getting. This comes aside from the fact the victims all appear to be related in some reports..giving rise to a very personal motive at work here.

1). He was a support troop in a Special Operations base dedicated to village level support and assistance programs inside the population. Hmmm... Well, I never saw quite the same flowery descriptions used for the Phoenix Program of another war...but I wonder how different the two really are in how Phoenix actually DID operate vs. the Hollywood depiction of it? The point is....What did he see as a part of his time on that base that was different from his other 3 combat tours? Why snap now? Why like this?

2). He's described by all so far as being the type of NCO that en enlisted man loves to find above him. A trooper's trooper for getting his men what they need and insuring they're well covered and cared for....

This suggestion may anger some and cause others to laugh..but consider it for at least a moment.

Is it POSSIBLE....just possible...that after seeing more horror than he'd seen before in Iraq, and after seeing a good friend blown apart shortly before this...he downed a few drinks and got to some real stupid thinking? Given his history as described by those who knew him best...is it possible that in this fuzzy state of thinking, and with a real grudge to pursue ANYWAY...it crossed his mind that an atrocity of this kind as this stage of the war could very well lead to the end of United States Involvement IN the war altogether?

Was this entirely lost on him, or was it more than just a PART of the reason he did it?

It makes *NO* difference for punishment and it should do NOTHING to mitigate the killing spree he went on. However, understanding a thing like this when it comes from a man who showed every sign of being the OPPOSITE of what this suggests is critical. It's critical if we don't want more.

One final note..... The record now indicates he was only on his 4th combat deployment. That is interesting because the material also shows he signed up right after the towers came down..so he's been in a fighting army for the entire duration of the wars. How long were those first 3? Stop lossed out to 15 months and more? I wonder... How far HAD this man been pushed beyond his personal breaking point..and how many more must we STOP pushing now before we need more room at Leavenworth for tragedies which should never happen at all?


He also had run in's with the law and financial difficulties....

- Arrested for assaulting his girlfirned in 2002.
- Involved in a hit and run and ran from the scene into the woods.
- Owns an abandoned house in Auburn Wa
- Is behind on the mortgage of his current house, wife put the house on the market.
- Tried to get re-assigned as a recruiter but was denied.
- Missed a promotion to E-7.

Add all that to his combat deployments and it probably put him over the edge. But it's no excuse for what he did.

www.thenewstribune.com...



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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I have just read the story below and thought it was interesting

Reasons not to buy the story of the "deranged" US soldier killing Afghan civilians

This stood out:


The Afghan narrative has been curiously lobotomised – censored, even – by those who have been trying to explain this appalling massacre in Kandahar. They remembered the Koran burnings – when American troops in Bagram chucked Korans on a bonfire – and the deaths of six Nato soldiers, two of them Americans, which followed. But blow me down if they didn't forget – and this applies to every single report on the latest killings – a remarkable and highly significant statement from the US army's top commander in Afghanistan, General John Allen, exactly 22 days ago. Indeed, it was so unusual a statement that I clipped the report of Allen's words from my morning paper and placed it inside my briefcase for future reference.

Allen told his men that "now is not the time for revenge for the deaths of two US soldiers killed in Thursday's riots". They should, he said, "resist whatever urge they might have to strike back" after an Afghan soldier killed the two Americans. "There will be moments like this when you're searching for the meaning of this loss," Allen continued. "There will be moments like this, when your emotions are governed by anger and a desire to strike back. Now is not the time for revenge, now is the time to look deep inside your souls, remember your mission, remember your discipline, remember who you are."

Now this was an extraordinary plea to come from the US commander in Afghanistan. The top general had to tell his supposedly well-disciplined, elite, professional army not to "take vengeance" on the Afghans they are supposed to be helping/protecting/nurturing/training, etc.


I'm wondering if they will draw the whole thing out over a few years just to let the memories fade


ETA

Lawyer for soldier accused of Afghan slaughter: ‘almost complete information blackout


John Henry Browne, the attorney for Staff Sergeant Robert Bales, the man accused of single-handedly massacring 17 Afghan villagers, is now accusing the United States government of “an almost complete information blackout” which is blocking him from preparing a proper defense for Bales.

Browne alleges that he and his legal team has been prevented from being able to interview the witnesses to the tragic incident as well as the injured civilians in southern Afghanistan.



edit on 4-4-2012 by ukWolf because: Link



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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I can't say what was going on in this guy's head, if he acted alone or with others or what.

One thing I always remember is what an acquaintance of mine talked about when it came to all of the military people he's known over the years. This guy is a career military man, something like like 15 years in the service by the time he told me this. In his experience there are basically three broad categories of people he's known who join up:

Some, like him, join because it's a very serious matter of duty and honor. He comes from a military family and was instilled with these ideals from an early age and for him and for many people like him it's a very noble, if dangerous duty and calling. These people are your best and most professional soldiers, the ones who do it for the highest reasons.

Your next category are basically those people who join up because it's either a way out of the ghetto, to learn technical trades, or to get funding for college. Nothing wrong with that in his opinion, but he also feels many if not most of these people tend to not be the most motivated soldiers and are often not psychologically prepared for the business. A lot of them have the most trouble when it comes to combat, either performing under fire or they just don't hold up well and really suffer the worst effects later from it. Not bad people, certainly, just not really up to the task and sometimes they can crack or are left damaged by their experience. In peace time it's probably fine because they do their two years or whatever and are out, and that's that. But in wartime it can be really hard for them.

The last group he encountered are the ones that really made him nervous. These were people who signed up for the military because it would give them a chance to kill and even outright murder people without any repercussions. They are just blood thirsty killers at heart and for them the military is a way they can find an "outlet" for their sick fantasies and not only not suffer repercussions for their acts, but even be lauded for them. These were the smallest group he encountered, and probably there were more who never admitted to their reasons for joining, but they are there, they are very real and he always felt they were very sick and dangerous people.

I have no idea which category this staff sergeant falls into. Was he someone who started out with noble ideals, or who got into it because a recruiter convinced him and later cracked? Or could he have been someone who always harbored fantasies about doing killings like this finally just went wild with it? Maybe his motives were more complicated than any of these things. What I do know is that war dehumanizes everyone involved. It dehumanizes the victims, at least in the eyes of those doing the killing and it dehumanizes those doing the killing, no matter how decent they are or were at heart, because only someone who has lost a part of their humanity can so easily go about killing others, even if that killing is done for noble reasons, for self defense or because there simply is no other choice. The only inevitable outcome of war is that you get atrocities like this from all sides. Even the best people fighting for the most noble causes can fall into depravity.



posted on Apr, 4 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Manhater
2 villages = multiple shooters. , Let's say it was him - he had help. I tend lean more to the theory of a group of shooters rather than just a lone gunman. The story is suspect at best.


or the witnesses are....


Since you are our resident military law expert, (certainly the best this forum has) I am curious if we know anything about when they are considering commencing the trial for him?

It is my understanding that they are still in investigation phase of this, with the statement from the US government being there is hindrance with this process due to bureaucratic difficulties concerning inter-government cooperation. Is this still the case to your knowledge?

Once the trial commences is this something that any part of will be publicized or will it be a behind closed doors affair with a simple announcement as to ruling at some late date?

Thank you for you time


And sorry OP but I am declining further comment on the issue because I have already made comment on the issue and Islam was satisfied in this regard, I feel nothing I can add is a benefit.

We DO need to stop the war however, none of it is good, and it is way past time American and Nato troops pulled out.

And sorry for off topic questions, not wanting to derail... Continue on
edit on 4-4-2012 by Jameela because: (no reason given)



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