Don't You Religious Nuts Have Better Things To Do?

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by jude11

 

Faith is what you believe is true is true. No matter what that truth is.

The choice is yours continue to believe in yourself or believe that the Spirit of Christ dwells in you. Whatever you believe is your faith and is your truth.

So...."faith" is "believing" in things, even when those things are demonstrably false? Isn't that usually called "willful ignorance"?

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by jude11

 

A married man sees a beautiful woman and he looks at her physical beauty, because you know what you see. This look, innocent as it may seem is the path to adultery. Do we all continue down the path, no, but way too many do. And if we are honest many of us don't go down the path, because the beautiful woman never looks back.

A married man filled by the spirit sees a beautiful and instead of admiring her physical beauty he looks away out of respect for his wife and her husband. This man will not go down the path of adultery because the Holy Spirit has interceded. For the man who is following his own consciousness has not recognized that it is God who is trying to lead him away from his sin so he only has what he knows to rely on.

If you believe that the Holy Spirit lives in you and is your consciousness than you will accept instruction from God, because you have believed that the instruction comes not from your wisdom but from the wisdom of one greater than you. The part that makes this news even greater is that it is the very Spirit of Christ who was tested in every way we are but overcame sin. Because he faced our tests and overcame we can be sure that his wisdom is sound.

For the wisdom of man is look but don't touch, but the wisdom of God is don't look don't touch. If you fail to learn the simple lesson of don't look don't touch, because you have not accepted that the instruction comes from God how can you possibly learn concepts that are more complex? The one who accepts that all instruction is from the Spirit of Christ can learn how to overcome sin, thus becoming free from sin. For the one who does not accept this will never be able to become free, because they have not accepted the instruction.

What about those of us who whom attractive women normally regard as being viable candidate for sexual interaction who don't think it really requires any tangible willpower, divine intervention, or jedi mind-tricks to stay monogamous with our spouses?

Isn't it really just more of a cause and effect sort of thing? I mean...simply the act of NOT inserting your c&^k into another female is what really "overcomes" adultery, isn't it? I am 33 and have been married 5 years. No sooner did the wedding ring go around my finger and the instances of beautiful women flirting, insinuating, or downright offering themselves to me increased about 6,000%...probably because many females find the idea of a man who can commit and live in a reasonable domestic partnership to be the most attractive quality of all.

Not once have I ever felt "tempted" or had to sit down and wrestle the "angels & demons" in either a divine OR a proverbial and secular sense. It's really very simple. If you love your spouse...don't cheat on them. If for some reason you fall out of love with your spouse at some point...try talking to them instead of sleeping around. Who knows...maybe the wife will also think "Female X" is hot and suggest a threesome or a little group action with another couple. It happens in America every single day. If all else fails, and neither of you are fulfilled any longer, perhaps a divorce is best...but this is perfectly do-able in an HONEST, open, and respectful manner...there is no need to lie and sneak around.

Does being a decent human being REALLY require "faith" in EITHER the supernatural OR in the struggle of some sort of Freudian split-personality?

reply to post by sacgamer25

What Christ is saying is if you don't believe the spirit of God lives in you and teaches you all things than you have already condemned yourself. Not necessarily to hell, but to live with only the limited knowledge that you have. Because you have believed only in yourself you are far more likely to do the things that cause anger, fear, and depression.

One more thing...from what alternate reality do you hail?

You started your post out by saying that "faith" is more or less "believing in something no matter what...even when that something is proven to be untrue or false"...but then you state that NOT "believing" that the "spirit of God lives in you" equates to be "condemned" to living with "limited knowledge".

I'm not sure what the word "knowledge" means on your home planet, but for us mere mortal earthlings, "believing" in things that are patently untrue is the very definition of "being condemned to live with limited knowledge". By YOUR OWN WORDS, REASONING, LOGIC, AND DEFINITIONS the "condemned" man is the one who has "faith".

Secondly...who says all of us atheists only "believe in ourselves". To be clear, most of us absolutely reject the notions of "Faith", "Truth", and "Belief" as proper nouns and beginning with capital letters. Mostly, because it is the territory of fools, as you pointed out in your opening sentence when you observed that these things often require individuals to subscribe to the veracity of ideas they know are false.

However, in the colloquial sense I believe in a lot of things. To be clear, I mean this in the sense that I "believe" the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776...largely because this "belief" is supported by physical evidence, the historical record, all kinds of eyewitness testimony handed down to us, and because it is a general matter of fact and record.

Likewise, my "belief" in science will not only allow...but REQUIRE me to modify this belief should new indisputable evidence come to light that the Declaration of Independence was actually signed in 1775 but for whatever reason post-dated.

Similarly, I also "believe" in my family, friends, evolution, bigfoot, aliens, and that Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone. However, these are all "beliefs" with a lower-case "b" as I am fully permitted to evaluated evidence and form a hypothesis supported by it. I am not at all required to knowingly keep "faith" in things that are patently false.

For example...we KNOW that the bible is NOT the "Word of God". Mostly because we know exactly who was at the meeting when it was rewritten, edited, and re-worked from the "Directors Cut" at the First Council of Nicea in 325AD.

...proving yet again that "religion" is utter lunacy.

Thank you for stating the obvious. Well, it's obvious to us "non believers & future hell inhabitants" I live in the southern USA. And we have the bible thumpers in bunches around here. I personally like it when you hit them with a really hard question to answer and how they "suspend reality" in order to answer it.

It's real clear the nutters as you call them have zero reading comprehension. My sister & one of my brothers are just as you say"NUTTERS". She owns the building that house's "their church" They have a friend of a preacher. freaking con man is what he is. And they do their thang every Sun.

They do their "works" as they say. They administer the Gospel...... Laughable at best. I was asked to never come back, at least not when services are being held.. It was hard for me not to "ask a few questions" and then examine the parables the stories create. They aint open for debate. They aint open to logic either.

I do know this for a fact, as I have seen it happen with my own family & friends. "" Allmost 100% of the time, when one turns to religion and church.""" There's a hardening of the heart & a narrowing of the mind""

If I'm told one more time " Your going to hell if you don't change your ways and repent and serve god"" I may puke. At least these days, we atheist's are able to even speak up. Back in the day it would have got you killed. How loving is that!!! Down here in the South we have the Jehovahs Witness's who in all honesty are the least annoying of the nutters. They come, dressed to the nines, ask to talk, hand out a Watch tower magizine and leave. Never ask for $$$$ and are allways respectfull. That WatchTower starts a fine fire..

reply to post by Lionhearte

NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that you need to tithe in order to get to Heaven

(Bold Tags My Own)

Institution of the Tithe Under the Law

The tithe is first given as law in Leviticus 27:30-33. This consisted of "all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree" (vs.30); specifically, it consisted of livestock, grain, fruit, and the like. If desired, a man could "redeem" part or all of his tithe with money, but if he did so, he was required to add 20 percent ("a fifth" - vs. 31) of the value to it (in other words, a man wishing to "redeem" his tithe [keep it for himself] was required to pay 120 percent of the value of the tithe). This apparently only applied to the tithe from the land. It seems that animals could not be redeemed. Animals were to be chosen by counting every tenth, and not deciding between "good" or "bad" animals - almost a random picking based on the animals passing before the shepherd and choosing every tenth animal. If a man wanted to substitute an animal for one of the animals to be set aside for the Lord, both animals were then considered holy, and neither could be redeemed. (The entire 27th chapter of Leviticus focuses on dedicating things to the Lord, and concludes with the tithe).

Purpose of the Tithe, and the Second Tithe

In Numbers 18:20-32, God gives the reason for the tithe seen in Leviticus 27 - to support the Levitical priesthood (cf. Nehemiah 10:37-39). Since the Lord specified that the Levites would "have no inheritance" among the Israelites, the tithe was given to them "for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation." (Num. 18:21,31). Aaron himself was told that he would have no inheritance among the Israelites as well, but that God was his share and inheritance (Num. 18:20). God then specifies that the Levites were to give a tenth (tithe) of all the tithes they received to Aaron (Num. 18:25-29) - this was "the Lord's portion".

source
"And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD."
(Leviticus 27:30)

This scripture states that all the tithe, whether it be seed of the land, fruit of the tree, or one tenth of all that you earn, is holy unto the Lord. (Deuteronomy 14:22-29) states that "one-tenth of all that comes into your possession, belongs to God." This was God's plan to instruct His people as to the way of blessings that He had for them, I suppose. So yes, the scripture does not say in plain language that you have to tithe to get into the Christian Heaven, but it certainly does allude to just that, doesn't it? When you take into account the things the God of the Bible wanted, virgins, gold, incense, cooked meat, and money, it sure seems to me the God of the Bible is somewhat human. Why would a God need these things?

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

NO WHERE in the Bible does it say that you need to tithe in order to get to Heaven

(Bold Tags My Own)

Institution of the Tithe Under the Law

The tithe is first given as law in Leviticus 27:30-33. This consisted of "all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree" (vs.30); specifically, it consisted of livestock, grain, fruit, and the like. If desired, a man could "redeem" part or all of his tithe with money, but if he did so, he was required to add 20 percent ("a fifth" - vs. 31) of the value to it (in other words, a man wishing to "redeem" his tithe [keep it for himself] was required to pay 120 percent of the value of the tithe). This apparently only applied to the tithe from the land. It seems that animals could not be redeemed. Animals were to be chosen by counting every tenth, and not deciding between "good" or "bad" animals - almost a random picking based on the animals passing before the shepherd and choosing every tenth animal. If a man wanted to substitute an animal for one of the animals to be set aside for the Lord, both animals were then considered holy, and neither could be redeemed. (The entire 27th chapter of Leviticus focuses on dedicating things to the Lord, and concludes with the tithe).

Purpose of the Tithe, and the Second Tithe

In Numbers 18:20-32, God gives the reason for the tithe seen in Leviticus 27 - to support the Levitical priesthood (cf. Nehemiah 10:37-39). Since the Lord specified that the Levites would "have no inheritance" among the Israelites, the tithe was given to them "for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation." (Num. 18:21,31). Aaron himself was told that he would have no inheritance among the Israelites as well, but that God was his share and inheritance (Num. 18:20). God then specifies that the Levites were to give a tenth (tithe) of all the tithes they received to Aaron (Num. 18:25-29) - this was "the Lord's portion".

source
"And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD."
(Leviticus 27:30)

This scripture states that all the tithe, whether it be seed of the land, fruit of the tree, or one tenth of all that you earn, is holy unto the Lord. (Deuteronomy 14:22-29) states that "one-tenth of all that comes into your possession, belongs to God." This was God's plan to instruct His people as to the way of blessings that He had for them, I suppose. So yes, the scripture does not say in plain language that you have to tithe to get into the Christian Heaven, but it certainly does allude to just that, doesn't it? When you take into account the things the God of the Bible wanted, virgins, gold, incense, cooked meat, and money, it sure seems to me the God of the Bible is somewhat human. Why would a God need these things?

Yeah, but do you know where you went wrong?

You apparently have actually read the bible. It's way easier to be a "believer" if you don't ever both to read, much less understand any of it.

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
Thank you for stating the obvious. Well, it's obvious to us "non believers & future hell inhabitants" I live in the southern USA. And we have the bible thumpers in bunches around here. I personally like it when you hit them with a really hard question to answer and how they "suspend reality" in order to answer it.

It's real clear the nutters as you call them have zero reading comprehension. My sister & one of my brothers are just as you say"NUTTERS". She owns the building that house's "their church" They have a friend of a preacher. freaking con man is what he is. And they do their thang every Sun.

They do their "works" as they say. They administer the Gospel...... Laughable at best. I was asked to never come back, at least not when services are being held.. It was hard for me not to "ask a few questions" and then examine the parables the stories create. They aint open for debate. They aint open to logic either.

I do know this for a fact, as I have seen it happen with my own family & friends. "" Allmost 100% of the time, when one turns to religion and church.""" There's a hardening of the heart & a narrowing of the mind""

If I'm told one more time " Your going to hell if you don't change your ways and repent and serve god"" I may puke. At least these days, we atheist's are able to even speak up. Back in the day it would have got you killed. How loving is that!!! Down here in the South we have the Jehovahs Witness's who in all honesty are the least annoying of the nutters. They come, dressed to the nines, ask to talk, hand out a Watch tower magizine and leave. Never ask for $$$$ and are allways respectfull. That WatchTower starts a fine fire..

edit on 21-3-2012 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)

Wow. That really puts it in perspective for us Northerners and how good we have it. Up here in Wisconsin the Jehovah's are usually considered one of the most annoying of all the various 'Nutter denominations. As irritating as I find it...I really cannot comprehend what it must be like for an atheist down South. Although, we do get a good helping of traveling Mormons for whatever reason too. They are a whole lot more persistent and tend to come back multiple times each bicycle-season.

I find the best way to get rid of them is to just answer the door buck naked and sporting an erection. They almost never want to shake hands at that point.

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by jude11

 

Faith is what you believe is true is true. No matter what that truth is.

The choice is yours continue to believe in yourself or believe that the Spirit of Christ dwells in you. Whatever you believe is your faith and is your truth.

So...."faith" is "believing" in things, even when those things are demonstrably false? Isn't that usually called "willful ignorance"?

You look at a car a know that it had to be created. You look at a living organism that is 1000 fold more complex than a car but assume it came by chance. No one has demonstrated what i say as false. As a matter of fact psychology is on my side. Because I believe that the spirit lives in me and guides me to all truth, than that has become my reality. Because you believe that thier is no God that is your reality. The is at least as much evidence for God as thier is against him. So one of our realities is in fact not reality, but that does jot change the fact that our realities our what we believe.

I believe that the complexity of even simple life and the mathematical perfection of the universe proves their must be a creator. This is not willful ignorance but a belief that most people share, that comes from sound reasoning.

Because i believe in reasoning for myself I have done several things that most Christians have not. I have read the bible, believed in what it said, and rejected church teaching that not only contradict the message of Christ but also contradict fundamental natural truth. Because i have rejected this teaching I don't nor would I ever condemn you or anyone to Hell. Instead I urge you to see that the father will teach you all things if in fact you will believe that he is teaching you.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Like I admitted to in my post there are people who follow morality because they believe it to be right. And because you have believed it you have seen that there are other ways to avoid committing this transgression against your wife. I imagine you are quite satisfied that you have come to this conclusion. I am merely stating that this satisfaction you feel is a gift from God because you have choose to believe the truth. Remember I said it is the one who justifies thier transgression that is at risk. Because you have not justified this transgression you are not at risk.


But this is only one example. There are many transgressionsband we all fall short. The good news is you were forgiven before you were created, and God has choose to personally teach you and dwell within you.

You look at a car a know that it had to be created. You look at a living organism that is 1000 fold more complex than a car but assume it came by chance. No one has demonstrated what i say as false. As a matter of fact psychology is on my side. Because I believe that the spirit lives in me and guides me to all truth, than that has become my reality. Because you believe that thier is no God that is your reality. The is at least as much evidence for God as thier is against him. So one of our realities is in fact not reality, but that does jot change the fact that our realities our what we believe.

Proving my point yet again...nobody has EVER taught you how to think critically, and perform higher reasoning and/or analysis. Seriously...look into those logical fallacies...you desperately need them.

1. All of the burden of proof is upon the "believers". It is not mathematically possible to "prove" a negative in a strict deductive sense, therefore, the null hypothesis is that God does not exist. It's not my opinion. It's formal math and logic. Thus, if the null hypothesis CAN ONLY be that God does not exist, you must either prove that null hypothesis "true" or "not true" (there is no "false" in logic and/or mathematics. Only "true" and "not true"). Go ahead...have a crack at it. It's an impossible task.

2. Our "realities" have nothing to do with "beliefs". Gravity exists...my thoughts and belief about the matter are wholly irrelevant.

Because i have rejected this teaching I don't nor would I ever condemn you or anyone to Hell. Instead I urge you to see that the father will teach you all things if in fact you will believe that he is teaching you.

I take that this must be homeschooling of some kind, right? The same curriculum that "taught" you how to form conclusions about your world on par with small children?

Seriously. Read up on the Logical Fallacies. Study them. Then run everything you think you "know" or "believe" through that sifter and see if you still think ANY of it makes a bit sense.

reply to post by milominderbinder


How do you know its not ok to cheat on your wife? How do you know its not ok to steal? How do you know its not ok to murder? Do you know merely because you were taught this by men other people? Have you reasoned this for yourself? If you have reasoned this for yourself, how did you do that?

Is there not a moral code that even children seem to understand. You realize that small children are not racist, but through reasoning many people become racist. Is this the same reasoning at work? Why does some reasoning lead to love and morality and other reasoning lead to hate. What you have rejected is religious reasoning that leads to hate. Good for you so do I and so did Christ. Ask a child if all good people go to heaven, and they will reason yes. Ask most Christians and they will reason know without even needing to know the person. So it is apparent thier is two types of reasoning at work.

One is the Holy spirit the other is man's own reasoning. Again if you can believe what I say than all wisdom can be yours. For the wisdom of man is worthless but the wisdom of God is priceless.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Like I admitted to in my post there are people who follow morality because they believe it to be right. And because you have believed it you have seen that there are other ways to avoid committing this transgression against your wife. I imagine you are quite satisfied that you have come to this conclusion. I am merely stating that this satisfaction you feel is a gift from God because you have choose to believe the truth. Remember I said it is the one who justifies thier transgression that is at risk. Because you have not justified this transgression you are not at risk.

But this is only one example. There are many transgressionsband we all fall short. The good news is you were forgiven before you were created, and God has choose to personally teach you and dwell within you.

Please do not form idiotic conclusions about me, personally. I was not "forgiven" before I was born, nor would I want to be. Mostly, because before I was born...I didn't exist. I sincerely hope that on the impossibly small chance that there is some sort of "God" that he promptly remove this status of "forgiven" from me. I don't recall ever asking what his opinion on the matter was in the first place, and I think I have been quite clear about wanting nothing to do him under any circumstances whatsoever.

Any "god" that would behave as depicted in the Bible and whom would allow the world to devolve into so much pain, suffering, and misery is no "god" of mine.

Lastly...your missing the entire point. There is no "conclusion" to come to in the example of staying faithful to your wife. You can only come to a "conclusion" if there is honestly some sort of morally reprehensible side of you that considered betraying your spouses trust just to blow a load.

Likewise, there isn't any "satisfaction" in this, either. Why should there be? I don't walk around feeling holier than thou today because I came to the "conclusion" that I shouldn't become a serial killer. Of course, not...BECAUSE BECOMING A SERIAL KILLER DOESN'T EVEN ENTER INTO A DECENT HUMAN BEINGS MIND!!!

No "god" necessary. 100% home-grown atheist. F*^%k "god" and the horse he road in on. I formally and in no uncertain terms reject "god" and I think he's an asshole. Am I clear? Are you satisfied? I hope I have illustrated in no uncertain terms for you that there will be NO divine intervention cited as being a causal agent in MY overall ability to be decent human being and treat others as I would wish to be treated.

However, I think your comments have said a world about your moral character. Apparently, your "god" is the only thing that is keeping you from being a sociopath.

Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

How do you know its not ok to cheat on your wife? How do you know its not ok to steal? How do you know its not ok to murder? Do you know merely because you were taught this by men other people? Have you reasoned this for yourself? If you have reasoned this for yourself, how did you do that?

.

Yes, human beings, secular philosophers, and personal experience has taught me that it's best to treat others as I would want to be treated. This idea can first be seen as having surfaced at least 8000 yrs before the supposed birth of Christ and probably a whole lot longer than that. Don't even TRY to hijack that into religion.

What you have rejected is religious reasoning that leads to hate. Good for you so do I and so did Christ. Ask a child if all good people go to heaven, and they will reason yes. Ask most Christians and they will reason know without even needing to know the person. So it is apparent thier is two types of reasoning at work.

Are you stupid? No...I'm not "rejecting religious reasoning that leads to hate". FOR THE RECORD...I AM REJECTING ANY AND ALL OF WHAT PASSES FOR RELIGIOUS "REASONING" AS WELL AS THE EXISTENCE OF "GOD"!! Furthermore, if there really was such a creature...I surely hope he stays the hell away from me. I want no part of it. Period. End of the story. Stop projecting your delusions of grandeur onto me.

One is the Holy spirit the other is man's own reasoning. Again if you can believe what I say than all wisdom can be yours. For the wisdom of man is worthless but the wisdom of God is priceless.

edit on 21-3-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)

Come back and talk to me about "wisdom" when you can build a coherent argument and understand what you read.

reply to post by Lionhearte

Besides, there's plenty of evidence, for those who actually care to look.

Can you please be so kind as to point me to this vast storehouse of knowledge you seem to have a connection to? An assertion? Please. Based on that? Friend, I have read the KJV twice, the NIV, Jubilees, Koran, Talmud, (I have both, with English translations) Quabbala, Key, and Lessor Key, Sword of Moses, and many other Ancient Religious Texts. I spent over 10 years of my life looking for any and all evidence of, articles about, proof of events, record books, Hebrew/English dictionaries, encyclopedias, haunting libraries, sending off for University Library books....and you are telling me that all I need to is look for this proof you speak of? Do you see where I am here? The burden of proof on the existence of Jesus Christ is upon you, and the others who believe he it real, not us who know better. Here is a real good place to start learning of the absolute lack of evidence:
jesus never existed

reply to post by milominderbinder

Yeah, but do you know where you went wrong?

You apparently have actually read the bible. It's way easier to be a "believer" if you don't ever both to read, much less understand any of it.

You said it, not me. It fits too, that is the mentality of an average Christian, whether a preacher or not. They believe because they do not know. They never read to find out, may discover something in there that you don't want to know. You hold up the book, proclaiming it to be the "Word of God," and yet do not know what is in the book, for Fear of reading it and gaining the knowledge. In truth, many people have shown me this, but you are the first to just come out and say it.

"And the Truth Shall Set You Free."

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by milominderbinder

 

Yeah, but do you know where you went wrong?

You apparently have actually read the bible. It's way easier to be a "believer" if you don't ever both to read, much less understand any of it.

You said it, not me. It fits too, that is the mentality of an average Christian, whether a preacher or not. They believe because they do not know. They never read to find out, may discover something in there that you don't want to know. You hold up the book, proclaiming it to be the "Word of God," and yet do not know what is in the book, for Fear of reading it and gaining the knowledge. In truth, many people have shown me this, but you are the first to just come out and say it.

"And the Truth Shall Set You Free."

No doubt. The ultimate "I give up" in terms of thinking is falling back and saying "Well..it's in the Bible".

Really? Which one? They ALL say different things. Do

My personal favorite is the original, unedited version of The Book of Matthew which was in circulation in the vast majority of greater Christendom prior to The First Council of Nicea. In this one, Jesus isn't just a magical, miracle-working jewish zombie who who fathered himself, and had a penchant for fine cabinetry. Oh, no....he was Jesus Christ The Dragon Master!!!

"And, lo, suddenly there came forth from the cave many dragons; and when the children saw them, they cried out in great terror. Then Jesus went down from the bosom of His mother, and stood on His feet before the dragons; and they adored Jesus, and thereafter retired."
-The Apocryphal Book of Matthew, Chapter 18

Ironically, this scene which was edited out of the Director's Cut 300 years after the supposed death of our Heavenly Beastmaster is quite possibly the most believable and least sensational thing the guy did in the whole story.

Another good thing to recall too is The Legend of Prester John in pre-crusades christian Europe. This folktale had sprung up before the Crusades that somewhere "out there"...probably in the east towards The Holy Land somewhere, was a noble king of some sort of Lost Christian Empire. This King's name was supposedly "Prester John" and all kinds of crazy notions started floating around. Everything from the idea that he was actually present at the Crucifixion and still alive today by divine intervention to being the archangel Michael himself. Supposedly he had a throne made out of pure emeralds.

By the 12th century w/ the Crusades now underway this folktale turned into full blown delusion. People became convinced that the Mongols who invaded and overthrew the Ethiopians were actually the descendants of Prester John. Pope Alexander III even starting writing letters to someone who purported to be Prester John. This would be the material equivalent of the current Pope becoming penpals with Paul Bunyan. Utter lunacy.

...yep. The "Bible" must be the direct word of God. Everybody knows those kooky Christians would never simply pull an idea directly from their ass and pawn it off to the masses as The Word of God, right? I mean...there's no historical precedent or anything...is there.

LOL.

reply to post by milominderbinder


You have rejected God because you cannot understand the concept. Instead you have accepted that we have the ability to have this conversation for no particular reason. And the outcome of this conversation is as meaningless as the outcome of any particular situation.

Because you have eliminated God from the equation you have eliminated in your mind the need to find wisdom apart from what can be proven to you by men. To make sure I do not assume anything you say that some things don't enter into a decent human beings mind, but why then do they enter anyone's mind?

You believe that by man's own superior wisdom that we have concluded that we should treat others how they wish to be treated, but yet you don't do what you say that you have concluded to be the truth. In no way have I attacked your intelligence, nor have a sworn at you, nor have I said anything derogatory about your mental health. But you have done all of these things. So by your own admission you must want me to treat you in these ways because it is your knowledge that you should treat others as you want to be treated.

You see if it was truly your knowledge that you should treat others the way you wish to be treated, than by your own wisdom you would surly follow the rule that you set for yourself. If the knowledge comes from God than it becomes more understandable why you don't follow the rule that you claim to have come up with for yourself.

With this understanding it is possible to understand why we do the things that we know we should not do. If we accept the instruction is from a loving God who wants us to see him as a father, rather than from our own wisdom, than we might do the things that we know we should do. Not because we fear God but instead because we know God loves us and only wants us to follow the path that leads to him.

Again you prove that you know only what you see. You see me as a Christian so you assume that regardless of what I say I must believe bad things about you because of what you believe and what you have said to me. If you did not believe this than there would be no reason to attack my belief. I am not attacking your belief only reasoning with you. You do not have to accept my reasoning but at the same time I find no reason that you should be attacking me.

But what you believe about me is not true. In fact the opposite response is what is required by the Holy Spirit. If I claim to have the Holy Spirit in me but fail to act any differently than anyone else than what good is that claim? But you see I am filled with the Holy Spirit and this is proof of God. This may not be proof to you but it is proof to me.

If I were to tell you God loves you and forgives you but then tell you, you are going to hell for not believing me, how could love and forgiveness be valid? Most Christians can't see that through their message they have restricted God's love to only those that believe he loves them. It is because that I believe it is the instruction from God that I treat you the way that I wish to be treated I learn not to react to your attack. It is because I have accepted God as my teacher that I can see the flaws, contradictions, and hypocrisy of Christianity. But these concepts are not found in the bible but only in man's flawed interpretation of the bible.

I was not homeschooled, nor was I indoctrinated into Christianity at a young age. I simply believed God and he proved to me that he is real. This is the promise he makes to all, unfortunately not many are truly seeking approval from God but rather approval from men. This statement was directed more at Christians who might read this post, as you clearly stated that you are not seeking his approval, and I respect your opinion.

Now that I have at least proven that I believe that God loves you by showing you kindness I have done all that I can. I do not seek your approval but only wish that you may experience a life filled with Joy free from the fears of this world.

reply to post by milominderbinder


Tithe was the law in the Old Testament. What the law of Tithing failed to do was teach you how to be humble or to care about the poor. By following the law it is possible to follow the law while you hate the poor man just as the rich man did to Lazarus in the book of Luke. You see the rich man could have easily been considered blameless by the standard of the law but still was not allowed to enter heaven because he had no compassion for the poor man.

This is precisely why the law has no value, except of course for the lawless. Since the law cannot teach a man to love or be compassionate towards others the law was replaced by a better covenant. Actually more like the covenant that God always wanted but the Israelites rejected. It was not God who decided that he would no longer accompany the Israelites on their journey but rather the Israelites who out of fear rejected God. For this reason God gave man what they asked for the law and a King that would rule over them.

Christ came to restore the way of God, which is to walk with man. This is the good news. The spirit will teach you all things if you believe. What the law could not do, teach you to have compassion and restrict your physical and material desires, the Spirit of the lord can do. God is love and will teach you to love if you accept him as your teacher. By love we learn that we should have compassion for all men and give whatever we can to help others. For the rich man gives a tenth out of his excess but the poor often give all they have. If the rich man was listening to the Spirit he would have given all he had just as the poor man did, in this way they would have given equally.

The Old Testament laws are no longer valid but instead were shadows of the better things to come which we are taught by the Holy Spirit.

Gee, how many people you labelled as religious nuts see themselves in that light?

Change the title to:

Don't You Whores Have Better Things To Do?

and see how many people come running.

Actually, your thread looks like nothing more than a bashfest and I will be darned if I am going defend myself for being a nut of any kind. Doing so would definitely be a waste of time.

reply to post by milominderbinder


My friend, being an atheist down south is, well in my on personal opinion is a "HOOT" I love it. Now being the youngest of six brothers & sister. And the fact one has a church and does all the "works for the Lord" , It makes the holidays a very special time indeed!!

No one wants to invite me & mine to dinner, so I just go ahead and invite em all to my house. Then sit back and see who has the most plausable story as to why they want be able to attend. I just love to make em sqirm around.

I have a sign at my front door. It lays out the ground rules for my castle. " Once you breech this door, Two subjects that will be spoke of no more. Religion & Politics. Or you will be asked to leave, and come no more"

My wife's ex-inlaws are the Pentacostal Holiness crap, the ones that stand and mumble and say it's God speaking thru them. I am told one speaks while another interprets what that one is saying. Good way to "run" that congregation.

It's a sham of epic proportions and will never cease to be amazed that people who are really ,really bright can be so blinded by a fairey tale. I have a small sticker on the drivers side rear window of my truck. It shows the Virgin Mary with a finger up to her lips in the "be quiet" motion. The caption reads, " Abstinence 99.99% effective"

I have on more than one occasion had to defend my right to display my sticker. I told one couple that if you rip that damn, " My boss is a Jewish carpenter" ship off yours, I;ll gladly take mine off too. I still have mine.