Don't You Religious Nuts Have Better Things To Do?

Originally posted by Unvarnished
The question of whether God exists or not should be limited to the domains of philosophy and in the end, it is truly a personal matter.

Is it really, though? If you have a forty-year-old son that still believes in a santa claus and grumbles in front of your friends how he's been good all year and santa still didn't get him the toolbox he wanted for christmas, wouldn't you be totally embarrassed? Wouldn't you say something to him?

I feel the same way about people believing in gods and devils. It really is embarrassing to mankind, to the point where if aliens came down to earth and if one of us humans started explaining about a god, I just might shoot him. It's THAT embarrassing!

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

I'd rather believe there is a heaven than believe it all fades to black. So friggin sue me.

If you believe all that biblical stuff about there being a heaven, then you CANNOT deny the part of the bible where a war took place, whereby satan and his dominion were cast down and out of heaven. So, you can't believe that heaven is paradise if wars can take place up there! You can't accept one part of the bible and totally disregard another part. You either believe in all of the crap, or you don't believe at all. Which is it???

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


I am not going to spend time trying to break down your claims. Instead of defending the Christian faith I will simply share with you my beliefs. I feel it might be more constructive towards actually gaining something from this conversation.
I was raised in the Christian Church, I spend 3-4 nights a week there. Youth group, cell groups, worship band, potlucks. when I graduated high school I traveled to Turkey while attending a discipleship training school and helped spread the word of God. This has given me a rich context of experiences to draw from and assess religion from my own point of view.

I like to think of all of the worlds religions as a metaphor.
Picture the spokes of a wheel, all leading back to a central hub, and is surrounded by the outer rim.

The spokes represent all of the diverse religions around the world, but it also represents how all are interdependent on eachother and not any single spoke is enough to support that central hub and outer rim on it's own. It takes all of the spokes to get to the central hub of truth and fully support and functioning wheel.

To sum it up, I am admitting yes religions have been changed over the years but that doesnt mean they dont provide a template on how to live a fulfilling life for some people. Many lessons can be learned because we all know history repeats itself and many religious books help to forewarn us of potential evils.


the canon books of the bible were obviously chosen tactfully to create a better control of the people, and you can actually learn a lot from some of the books that were left out like the book of st thomas, judas, and enoch. The entire rastafarian is based on the book of enoch. that is another discussion on its own.

I have a very complex set of beliefs myself, but I can't stand when people who have not experienced religion for themselves go out of their way to bash it...

I probably agree with you on a lot of things like conspiracies about HAARP, illuminati, nwo, political election rigging, etc..but the one thing religion has given me is the perspective of Love. I know it sounds retarded but when you think with your Heart consciousness you see things from a completely new perspective.

I hope we can talk more and learn from eachother!

namaste.

God needs money. Lots of it. 10% of everything, in fact.

Personally, I think He's doing drugs...

reply to post by Patchman

I hope we can talk more and learn from eachother!

Thanks Patchman.

This is all I ask of anyone, religious or not.

BTW, I was raised in a Christian surrounding as well. Just didn't work for me. I will give one thing tho.

Back in the late 60's, my mother was hooked on valium (as many housewives at the time) , she was an alcoholic and also smoked 2 packs of cigs per day. The day she turned to the Church she gave it all up. In one day!

Us kids were not allowed in her bedroom for a week as we were told that she was very sick. We only found out later in our years that she was actually going through withdrawal and detoxifying.

So for her, religion worked and without her belief, she wouldn't be with us today. This is why I have a live and let live attitude towards religion. If it works for someone and makes their life better, who am I to argue? Just because it's not for me doesn't make me right...just different.

BTW, she has never back tracked.

Peace

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by AwakeinNM

I'd rather believe there is a heaven than believe it all fades to black. So friggin sue me.

If you believe all that biblical stuff about there being a heaven, then you CANNOT deny the part of the bible where a war took place, whereby satan and his dominion were cast down and out of heaven. So, you can't believe that heaven is paradise if wars can take place up there! You can't accept one part of the bible and totally disregard another part. You either believe in all of the crap, or you don't believe at all. Which is it???

That is quite a presumptuous statement on your part.

Originally posted by Patchman
reply to post by FugitiveSoul

 

I am not going to spend time trying to break down your claims. Instead of defending the Christian faith I will simply share with you my beliefs. I feel it might be more constructive towards actually gaining something from this conversation.
I was raised in the Christian Church, I spend 3-4 nights a week there. Youth group, cell groups, worship band, potlucks. when I graduated high school I traveled to Turkey while attending a discipleship training school and helped spread the word of God. This has given me a rich context of experiences to draw from and assess religion from my own point of view.

Believe me, I'm no atheist. I too grew up in a religious home. My parents, both pagans, came from Catholic and Baptists backgrounds. When my father remarried (after my mother passed in '01), he married a lovely woman who was raised Jewish, and later decided paganism better suited her spiritual needs.
I too have travelled the world. I was fortunate enough to visit Vatican City while Pope John Paul II was blessing the crowd.

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with religion... when it's kept under wraps and/or at the very least remains respectful.

I like to think of all of the worlds religions as a metaphor.
Picture the spokes of a wheel, all leading back to a central hub, and is surrounded by the outer rim.

The spokes represent all of the diverse religions around the world, but it also represents how all are interdependent on eachother and not any single spoke is enough to support that central hub and outer rim on it's own. It takes all of the spokes to get to the central hub of truth and fully support and functioning wheel.

I can agree with that. I quite beautiful metaphor actually. There's no denying that the origin of all things, from living organisms, to rocks, light particles, even thoughts are all energy, and this energy, whether you call it "god" or not, exists.

To sum it up, I am admitting yes religions have been changed over the years but that doesnt mean they dont provide a template on how to live a fulfilling life for some people. Many lessons can be learned because we all know history repeats itself and many religious books help to forewarn us of potential evils.

Yes, but if history does indeed repeat itself, then religion is also something to be very wary of. Some of the worst atrocities in human history have been committed in the name of "god." Let's not forget that.

the canon books of the bible were obviously chosen tactfully to create a better control of the people, and you can actually learn a lot from some of the books that were left out like the book of st thomas, judas, and enoch. The entire rastafarian is based on the book of enoch. that is another discussion on its own.

Again, there is truth to this, however there is nothing in the bible that can't be, nor hasn't been learned in other places, or older places. Even the "Golden Rule" predates the bible by quite a bit.

I have a very complex set of beliefs myself, but I can't stand when people who have not experienced religion for themselves go out of their way to bash it...

I have experienced religion, and while there are those who use religion as a moral compass to live well while allowing others to live via their own path, there are many many more who use it as a weapon to condemn and demonize their fellow man with "you're either with us, or you're a product of Satan." Something I can't stand.

I probably agree with you on a lot of things like conspiracies about HAARP, illuminati, nwo, political election rigging, etc..but the one thing religion has given me is the perspective of Love. I know it sounds retarded but when you think with your Heart consciousness you see things from a completely new perspective.

Believe me, I do think with my heart, and I'm probably one of the most passive people you will ever meet, but when someone (not all Christians or other extremists mind your, but someone) tells me that I, or more importantly, my son will roast in hell because he has not been Baptized...

Well, that's the kind of issue I have with religion. People waging wars, blowing each other up, telling one man or woman how they must live. That is the problem many have with this subject, which is why I pointed another fella in this thread, who was using the book of Matthew as proof as to why it was his duty to tell people how to live, I pointed him to Matthew 6:5-6. Anyone should be allowed to follow god... or what ever they believe, but keep that faith to yourself. Don't try and force-feed dogma. It never ends well for either party.

I hope we can talk more and learn from eachother!

This I hope as well, friend.

Sometimes the best thing to do is just NOT OPEN THOSE THREADS

There will ALWAYS be someone trying to shove some belief or other down your throat. I am a christian and I believe in a creator - whether God, Alien or other - makes no diffference to me.

This is such a HUGE site and you will get ALL types, those that talk to God, Those that talk to the Devil, those that talk to Aliens, those that ARE aliens or FBI or CIA etc.

The secret to it all is NOT who is right or WHO is wrong - the secret is TOLERANCE!

Let them have their say - they are going to anyway.

I don't believe in Satan or the Devil because it was merely propaganda to get those in the days or yore to believe OR ELSE! Those days are over and demons are/were probably just government agents anyway

Chillax - have tolerance and allow people their moment on the soapbox. If it doesn't affect me personally I let them be. It's like when you are near an airport - at first you hear every single airoplane BUT eventually you don't hear them - doesn't mean they have stopped you have just become tolerant and your brain shuts them out.

You see your nose ALLLLL the time but your brain stops you from "seeing" it.

Plain and simple tolerance - forgetaboutit...

Originally posted by learnatic
I don't know when relegius people are going to realise that religion is the oldest form of mind control there this. Don't they want to be free?

Being free requires one to be fully responsible. Do you really think we would even have this forum if most people wanted to be fully responsible?

Think about that for just a moment...

reply to post by shearder

That is so true,its what i always ask,why can't people just live and let live? Allow everyone to believe as they want, marry who they want (well as long as they both of the same species,bestiality's propably gross) etc..i have had experiences with the entity known as the Lord Jesus Christ,in fact he literaly saved my ass on quite a few occasions,eg.once during a terrifying occultic/supernatural attack,and once when i was being strangled,during an attempted murder.Yet,i will never force my belief in him on anyone,but for instance if some one had to ask for advice on what to do about negative entity attacks,i will mention what worked for me.Why not? If twitching my nose 5 times+saying abracadabra worked,thats the advice i would have given.I do get the feeling on this site,that a belief in the Jesus equals being an ignorant nitwit in the minds of many users.I also believe in ufo's-because ive seen some,and still do,there's quite a bit of activity out here.Seen and experienced some strange and unusual things,since i was a kid.I guess that makes me a Loony-Tune in many ATS-ers minds,i could'nt care less if i tried.But i digress,point being,it would make me certifiably insane to disbelieve/doubt experiences i have had,just because others ridicule me for it-but it would be as insane to try and force my beliefs on them and ridicule them for not having had those experiences+thus not sharing my beliefs.There should be mutual respect for different beliefs,and adults should be able to "agree to disagree".But i notice there are Christians who are less tolerant,same can be said of extremist Muslims,or rabid atheists.I just dont see the need for the vociferousness and seeming anger with which a lot of folks defend their belief systems..well,maybe im not a real Christian anyway-most of the Bible makes no sense to me whatsoever. I believe the entity known as Jesus exists,because ive had experiences of him,and my life philosophy is:harm none,help others if and when you are in a position to,be kind to people,and Live and Let Live.Thats pretty much it for me.

reply to post by JibbyJedi


You know Jibby. I think if there is a heaven as asserted by certain religions you are definitely going there. If there is a God with emotions, and they are comparable to human emotion, as intelligent design would dictate, then God has to have a sense of humor. I think you are going to heaven if for no other reason than the sheer comedic value! The ultimate "Told ya so!" Plus if it is a matter of "deserving it" you're in. Better quit with all the magnanimity or you "might" end up there against your wishes!

So here's my twisted take on Paschal's wager: What are the chances it's not all as peculiar, and exclusive as (insert your particular sect of religion) says? What if no one is right? What if we're all wrong? What if atheists do good things, and make the planet a better place to hang out? What if living your religious beliefs with some common sense accomplishes the same thing?

God is described in the bible as being love, His nature summed up in that of a father. I wouldn't commit, or allow horrid acts of torture, and eternal suffering to my children because they didn't know the password to join the right club, or disagreed with me on some philosophical point of contention. Only humans are that cruel to "others." Religious people love to quote religious texts yet when you apply logic the human manipulations become obvious. So the answer is throw out logic, and accept it on blind faith. No thanks I'll stick to logic, and common sense, and throw out the manipulations, and glean the ancient wisdom, historical lessons, and perspective. I do this with ALL ancient religious texts. There's great stuff in all of them, but some junk too. Yes I do "pick" the parts I believe, just like the internet, newspaper, or TV.

Seems to me that if someone doesn't like what's being posted religion wise, they could handle it like a post on aliens landing in New Jersey that look like gasoline pumps. Maybe ignore it and go on to something a tad bit more interesting?

Just thinking aloud.

Originally posted by WatcherMan

The reason i belive the threads have recently increased is because God has been telling His followers that the rapture is about to take place VERY SOON.

Have you read Matthew 24:3-31 lately?

It is a timeline that does not have a "gathering of the elect" until verse 31 and there is is a lot of stuff yet to happen before then.

Originally posted by LaughingatHumanity
The best thing to do is make light of the situation and how ridiculous it is. I could really care less if the hordes of ritual cannibals and blood sacrifice mongers come pouring in. The harder they try the more ridiculous they make themselves out to be.

These people are doing rational and critical thinking individuals a favor through their displays, the harder they push in a modern society where they have been neutered from using death and violence as a means of control and cultural subversion the easier it is to show that this kind of behavior is unacceptable.

It's why there is so much anger and vitriol when it comes to the "civilized" fundies. 200 years ago these people would have tried to cause bodily harm or much worse just for having a differing opinion or position. The time is now to let them continue to cut their own feet from under them as we show that the threats carried by their perverted gospels and views are just as culturally unacceptable as the violence they wish they could still rely on.

We don't care to hear you flap your jaws, either, Einstein. Keep your lip zipped and try to pay attention, or at least save if for the judge, not that it'll do you any good then.

reply to post by jude11


Ps 14:1 THE fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

reply to post by jude11


I have only read a small part of your opening post.
My answer to all non-believers is this...KJV Luke 10:10-12
I will now wipe the dust off of my feet.

reply to post by jude11


What do you expect from people who belive in "talking snakes"??!!
Your friendly neighbourhood atheist.

Originally posted by WatcherMan

And if yo don't believe anything I just said, (because like I said i know this sounds fake to ppl who don't believe in God) please belive this::

When millions of ppl dissappear in a few weeks/months time, DON'T BELIEVE WHATEVER THE GOV'T OR SCIENTISTS SAY IS THE REASON IT HAPPENED. The cause of this WILL be the rapture, but the GOV'T will try to cover it up saying it's some stuff about the stupid humans being removed so ppl can ascend into the 5th dimension or some crap like that. Or they'll say the aliens did it. And by the way, the aliens that will invade Earth possibly this year, are just demons working with the Gov't putting on a show. It will happen AFTER the rapture takes place. The gov't might try to say the aliens took the christians away. IDK. But it will be jesus.

God's been trying to warn people man...that tornado outbreak 2 weeks ago...japan earthquake 1 year ago...It's only going to get worse ppl...Please at least someone believe. Cuz you don't wanna be here after the rapture. America will get the worst of the destruction. and the crazy part is everything going on in the world has been predicted in the bible, If people would just read it and belive.

Damascus, Syria just got rocked with explosions, yesterday, i think. Look what it says here in the bible about damascus:


Isaiah 17:1-3
New International Version (NIV)

Isaiah 17

A Prophecy Against Damascus

1 A prophecy against Damascus:
“See, Damascus will no longer be a city
but will become a heap of ruins.
2 The cities of Aroer will be deserted
and left to flocks, which will lie down,
with no one to make them afraid.
3 The fortified city will disappear from Ephraim,
and royal power from Damascus;
the remnant of Aram will be
like the glory of the Israelites,”
declares the LORD Almighty.

It's all there. But everyone calls it a fairytale. Last time I checked, fairy tales don't come true.

edit on 18-3-2012 by WatcherMan because: (no reason given)

Ummmm....I think this is exactly what OP was talking about.

Why would you feel compelled to spew the nonsense and bible quotes in this thread of all places? Your ignorance is positively astounding. The book of "Isaiah" was written at two different times and by two different authors between the years of 740-680BC.

Between 740BC and present day, Damascus has been "put into ruins" and had "royal power disappear" no less than TWENTY-ONE SEPARATE TIMES!!! The current turmoil in Damascus will mark #22 if the royal family is overthrown. Moreover, as of 740BC Damascus had ALREADY BEEN CONQUERED AND HAD IT'S MONARCH DEPOSED A MINIMUM OF EIGHT OTHER TIMES...possibly more.

Stating that "the spirits" have told you that "Damascus will be in ruins and lose it's king" in 740BC is a bit like someone today "foretelling" that the United States addiction to oil represents a "grave danger in the future". Oh...by the way...the first mention of the idea, concept, and word "rapture" didn't occur until 1827AD when the mere mortal John Nelson Darby popularized the idea in a special brand of fire-and-brimstone preaching in London.

This is precisely why only fools think the bible contains "prophecies". The only way you can believe this crap is to know almost nothing at all about history.

Non-believers walk by sight,believers walk by faith.
Believers warn the non-believers of the troubles ahead.
As a voice in the wilderness...prepare ye the way of
the L-rd.
Behold, He comes riding on the clouds,shining like the sun
at the shofar call.

Originally posted by jude11
reply to post by Patchman

 

I hope we can talk more and learn from eachother!

Thanks Patchman.

This is all I ask of anyone, religious or not.

BTW, I was raised in a Christian surrounding as well. Just didn't work for me. I will give one thing tho.

Back in the late 60's, my mother was hooked on valium (as many housewives at the time) , she was an alcoholic and also smoked 2 packs of cigs per day. The day she turned to the Church she gave it all up. In one day!

Us kids were not allowed in her bedroom for a week as we were told that she was very sick. We only found out later in our years that she was actually going through withdrawal and detoxifying.

So for her, religion worked and without her belief, she wouldn't be with us today. This is why I have a live and let live attitude towards religion. If it works for someone and makes their life better, who am I to argue? Just because it's not for me doesn't make me right...just different.

BTW, she has never back tracked.

Peace

Sure. Religion has turned lots and lots of life's around. It's great for helping out people addicted to substances, behaviors, and reforming criminals.

In short, it does OK in the "micro" on a personal level for those who believe in it. When we let it guide our political policies, science, reasoning capabilities, and diplomacy in the "macro" it causes nothing but war, torture, suffering, corruption, sexual abuse, and a tendency to burn "witches" alive.

Thus, if people want to quote Bible passages and need a crutch so they don't steal from other people or something...great. Do what you want. More power to you.

When you start thinking that "God speaks to you" or that ambiguous Bible passages are "prophecies" telling you to vote for the guy whose most likely going to bomb Iran and help it fulfill it's "destiny" or whatever...THAT'S VERY, VERY, DANGEROUS.

We used to do a pretty decent job of separating the two. I really don't know what the hell is wrong with us today.