Archaeologists uncover pre-Christian temple in Norway

Dan, you are throwing everything out here except answering questions relating directly to your own thread.

I would ask the same question if it was said that aliens made the temple. And i have no idea what the religious tangent is supposed to mean. Maybe it is true and maybe it isnt but as it stands now we have no way of knowing. Now that me be an invitation to make stuff up but that just isnt how i see it.

So the best we can say, and i am being generous here, is maybe. Normally i wouldnt say that but what the hell, i will throw you a bone.

Originally posted by Danbones
here you go pal I hope you can read:

Although the Scandinavians became nominally Christian, it took considerably longer for actual Christian beliefs to establish themselves among the people.[1] The old indigenous traditions that had provided security and structure were challenged by ideas that were unfamiliar, such as original sin, the Incarnation, and the Trinity.[1] Archaeological excavations of burial sites on the island of Lovön near modern-day Stockholm have shown that the actual Christianization of the people was very slow and took at least 150–200 years,[2] and this was a very central location in the Swedish kingdom. Thirteenth century runic inscriptions from the merchant town of Bergen in Norway show little Christian influence, and one of them appeals to a Valkyrie.[3]

During the early Middle Ages the papacy had not yet manifested itself as the central Catholic authority, so that regional variants of Christianity could develop.[4] Since the image of a "victorious Christ" frequently appears in early Germanic art, scholars have suggested that Christian missionaries presented Christ "as figure of strength and luck" and that possibly the Book of Revelation, which presents Christ as victor over Satan, played a central part in the spread of Christianity among the Vikings

we have bribery for Jesus

In 826, the King of Jutland Harald Klak was forced to flee from Denmark by Horik I, Denmark's other king. Harald went to Emperor Louis I of Germany to seek help getting his lands in Jutland back. Louis I offered to make Harald Duke of Frisia if he would give up the old gods. Harald agreed,

crush kill destroy

Christian missionaries recognized early on that the Danes did not worship stone or wooden idols as the north Germans or some Swedes did. They could not
simply destroy an image

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Ok, I thought long and hard.
If I didn't have a hammer and I needed to hammer something... well, I couldn't since I didn't have a hammer. Lack of a religion is a lack of religion. It's no tool. There's no nonsensical imaginary land in the sky to coerce, or an oh-so-scary place below to incite fear. A total lack of religion has no process for manipulating, thus it cannot be a tool.
Atheism is not a religion. Not even in the slightest possible sense. There is no worship of a deity, no supernatural belief system in place to explain the workings of the universe, no institutionalized set of values to dictate the manner in which one lives, etc. I've found that the single hardest thing for a believer to do is to grasp the basic concept of atheism.
The whole McCarthyism thing died off decades ago. There have been socialists in this country from it's founding, believe it or not, and they aren't going to go away. Deal with it. America's common bond IS NOT christianity. In case you aren't aware there are many other religions (as well as those with none) in this country. Our freedoms are our bond. I feel offended by such a comment for all the millions and millions in this country that aren't christian. And what do I think they'd attack? Our economy. Because that's all this country seems to care about. Cash.
As much as someone would like to rant about the USSR and communism, the two never met. Communism is a stateless society. The USSR had tyrants as the head of state.
The founding fathers were not christians. Deists, yes. Christian, no. Further, they made it clear they were not founding a christian nation.
And I have no clue what First Nation peoples/Native Americans have to do with the USSR. They were pretty well wiped out and shoved onto useless land by those loving christian folk long before the Bolshevik Revolution.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Johnny, I'm curious which Institution or University have you worked for? Have you worked any sites in Illinois?

reply to post by LuckyLucian


Have you been following the thread? Have you read how it has been exposed?
Especially the author of the article?
None of the other anti-Christianites will address it.
I am waiting for a show down with them.
I am not trying to avoid your well thought out reply to me.
Thank you very much.
One point at the end of your reply I remember was about native Americans and the USSR.
My question basically was "How would they like living under Communist rule instead of Christian democracy. And ask a Russian. The Reds were anti religon, like you claim to be.
thanks for you patience. I will get back to you

As Christianity was adopted in places through Europe and the Mediterranean countries it was changed a little to adapt to each cultures ways. Christians weren't heartless people, the basis of their belief was good but they felt they could make small changes because after all it wasn't originally about killing those who didn't want to convert. As patch after patch was put on the religion the religion became screwed up and separated because of all the conflicting patches. It's like updating a computer software program by installing patches. Pretty soon the program has to be replaced with a new version. I think this may have happened to Christianity.

The basis of Christianity is good, what happened in the past was not good. Everyone has to admit killing the Native Americans was not what Jesus said in the bible. This is in the past, Christianity can be good if people just read the new testament with an open mind. I don't particularly like Revelations but then again a man imprisoned on an Island isn't going to be a happy camper. I see good in all religions and beliefs, the primary teachings of all say to treat others as you would like them to treat you.

I see that the way to control the size of populations in the past was by war. The spoils became the treasures of the conquering country, this is burned into our DNA. Did Jesus say any of this? No it is in the old testament. Did Jesus say to hate Muslims? No he didn't. We do not need to fight if we voluntarily control our populations. Keep bloodlines going but don't have so many kids. No bloodline is more valuable than another, I don't care what anyone says. I know people think they are more worthy than others but in the religions I have studied, no mention of this exists. The kings fought alongside their soldiers in days of old.

I believe this threads content is true about some buried temple. I wonder why they did not come back for the rest? Maybe something happened and the people could not return. Maybe there was another reason for burying it. Maybe people who were forced to convert buried it so that their future generations would know what they believed. A time capsule for us to dig up and ponder on. This should not bring argument, this should bring awe.

I'm a Libra so I guess I can't take sides too well, I was that way before I knew what Libra meant. So DEBATE on but don't take it personally and don't get angry at one another.

Originally posted by WhoKnows100
It's scary how the deliberate use of terms to influence or reinforce indoctrination against Christianity is swallowed up by the masses. There is zero evidence that this site was buried to "protect it" from the "marauding Christians"

A few television shows and films glorifying these ancient pagan "gods" and people gobble it up as truth. Never once are you informed of the human sacrifices that accompanied these different ancient religions because if it was, it couldn't be sold so easily. Instead, it must be glorified and dressed up as the true religion - no matter if it's Babylonian, Mayan, Norse, Extraterrestrial or whatever.

It was a religion. A religion where people were fooled into thinking that sacrificing humans appeased their "gods".

In all fairness to the Nords, only followers of Odin engaged in human sacrifice. So the question is, what god is the temple devoted to?

reply to post by korathin


I think they were skinned bears that they were BBQing. Odin's men ate bear a lot. They also burned their dead but usually at sea. If a city slicker came and saw a skinned bear on the BBQ pit they may have thought it was human. Those heathens and their evil BBQ traditions. I've read quite a bit of Ruins and a few of the ancient writings about the heathens. I think the vision of some Christians may have been blinded by their way of life.

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
reply to post by LuckyLucian

 

Have you been following the thread? Have you read how it has been exposed?
Especially the author of the article?
None of the other anti-Christianites will address it.
I am waiting for a show down with them.
I am not trying to avoid your well thought out reply to me.
Thank you very much.
One point at the end of your reply I remember was about native Americans and the USSR.
My question basically was "How would they like living under Communist rule instead of Christian democracy. And ask a Russian. The Reds were anti religon, like you claim to be.
thanks for you patience. I will get back to you

a show down
?
the authour of the post is relaying an article published by norwegian archaeologists
you didn't even know that even though the link from the article was posted three or four times
you haven't dealt with a thing on this thread
like the historical record of christian destruction I just posted
conversions for every reason but for anything the mythical christ stood for

show down???

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by korathin

 

I think they were skinned bears that they were BBQing. Odin's men ate bear a lot. They also burned their dead but usually at sea. If a city slicker came and saw a skinned bear on the BBQ pit they may have thought it was human. Those heathens and their evil BBQ traditions. I've read quite a bit of Ruins and a few of the ancient writings about the heathens. I think the vision of some Christians may have been blinded by their way of life.

very true the bears are very human looking when skinned
good point there RM

Originally posted by LuckyLucian
reply to post by longjohnbritches

 

Ok, I thought long and hard.
If I didn't have a hammer and I needed to hammer something... well, I couldn't since I didn't have a hammer. Lack of a religion is a lack of religion. It's no tool. There's no nonsensical imaginary land in the sky to coerce, or an oh-so-scary place below to incite fear. A total lack of religion has no process for manipulating, thus it cannot be a tool.
Atheism is not a religion. Not even in the slightest possible sense. There is no worship of a deity, no supernatural belief system in place to explain the workings of the universe, no institutionalized set of values to dictate the manner in which one lives, etc. I've found that the single hardest thing for a believer to do is to grasp the basic concept of atheism.
The whole McCarthyism thing died off decades ago. There have been socialists in this country from it's founding, believe it or not, and they aren't going to go away. Deal with it. America's common bond IS NOT christianity. In case you aren't aware there are many other religions (as well as those with none) in this country. Our freedoms are our bond. I feel offended by such a comment for all the millions and millions in this country that aren't christian. And what do I think they'd attack? Our economy. Because that's all this country seems to care about. Cash.
As much as someone would like to rant about the USSR and communism, the two never met. Communism is a stateless society. The USSR had tyrants as the head of state.
The founding fathers were not christians. Deists, yes. Christian, no. Further, they made it clear they were not founding a christian nation.
And I have no clue what First Nation peoples/Native Americans have to do with the USSR. They were pretty well wiped out and shoved onto useless land by those loving christian folk long before the Bolshevik Revolution.[/quot/]

I'll try a couple befor bed. While the rest look for ways of throwing Christians to the lions.
No hammer get a rock.
Lack of anything in your brain leaves space for propaganda
It a tool for a person adept in phycology
If there is a concept then that is your belief. Do you have FAITH in it?
get it?
Joe's ideas were correct, The death of the CHRISTIAN Kennedy brothers put a break on it But my friend it is alive and well. And I am totally comfortable with it.

Are you going to tell me the number of Christians in America?
Who died to give you that ability to have a freedom bond?
If you are offended then simply deal with it.
What is your contribution to America to keep that freedom?
I don't think I said anything about the founders.

Harald II Greycloak (Old Norse: Haraldr gráfeldr, Norwegian: Harald Gråfell, Danish: Harald Gråfeld) (died 970) was a king of Norway.[1]

Harald Greycloak was the son of Eirik Bloodaxe and a grandson of Harald Fairhair. His mother was Gunnhild Gormsdatter, the daughter of King Harald I of Denmark.

After his father's death in 954, Harald and his brothers allied with their grandfather, King Harald Gormson, against King Haakon I of Norway. They fought several battles against King Haakon including the Battle of Rastarkalv near Frei in 955 and the Battle of Fitjar in 961.

After King Haakon's death at Fitjar, Harald and his brothers became kings of Norway, but they had little authority outside Western Norway. Harald, by being the oldest, was the most powerful of the brothers. In 961, their uncle King Harald Bluetooth of Denmark traveled to Norway and declared Harald Greycloak to be his vassal king in Norway.

Harald moved to strengthen his rule by killing the local rulers including Sigurd Haakonsson, Tryggve Olafsson and Gudrød Bjørnsson. Harald Greycloak thus took power over the country up to and including Hålogaland. Harald established control over the trade route along the Norwegian coast. He also undertook a Viking expedition to Bjarmaland, today the area of Arkhangelsk in northern Russia. Harald soon became less dependent on support from Harald Bluetooth.[2]

In 970, he was tricked into coming to Denmark and killed in Hals in the Limfjord in a plot planned by Sigurd Haakonsson's son Haakon Sigurdsson, who had become an ally of Harold Bluetooth. Haakon Sigurdsson had become the Jarl of Lade after his own father was killed by Harald Greycloak's men in 961. The surviving brothers of Harald Greyhide fled the country after his death. With the death of Harald Greycloak, King Harald Bluetooth won back power over Norway and he supported Haakon Sigurdsson as his vassal king

en.wikipedia.org...

well look: the blood thirsty christian king who attacked Norway just prior to 1000 ad
he suplanted Haakon the good

Haakon became earl after his father was killed by King Harald Greyhide's men in 961. He warred with King Harald for some time, until he was forced to flee to Denmark and Harald Bluetooth. In Denmark he conspired with Harald Bluetooth against Harald Greyhide.

Jarl Haakon arranged the death of Harald Greyhide around 971 with the connivance of Harald Bluetooth, who had invited his foster-son to Denmark to be invested with new Danish fiefs. Civil war broke out between Jarl Haakon and the surviving brothers of Harald Greyhide, but Haakon proved victorious.[3] After this, Haakon Jarl ruled Norway as a vassal of Harald Bluetooth, but he was in reality an independent ruler. For Harald, he attacked Götaland and killed its ruler Jarl Ottar. When Haakon was in Denmark, Harald Bluetooth forced him to accept baptism and assigned him clergymen to take to Norway to spread Christianity. When a favourable wind came for Haakon to leave, he commanded the clergymen to return ashore.[4]

Around 973-974, he went to Denmark to help Harald Bluetooth of Denmark in his defense against the Holy Roman Emperor Otto II. Otto's forces successfully opposed an attempt by Harald to throw off the German yoke. After that Haakon paid no taxes to Denmark.

Haakon was a strong believer in the old Norse gods, and when Harald Bluetooth attempted to force Christianity upon him around 975,

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Ok, I see what you were getting at. Problem with that supposition is that many Native American peoples had fairly communist communities. And I again take offense to you yet again trying to place the mantle of democracy on christians. Democracy existed long before Christ.
I am anti-religion. I think it serves no good purpose. However, it exists and we have all been exposed to it in some form. So I deal with it. Doesn't mean I like it or that I need to tolerate the incessant hate coming from those that do believe. Would I like a world without religion? Yes, please. But that will never happen.
I've been following the thread. With my nephews birthday party between the start of it and now. The articles subject hasn't been "exposed" as you say, as if it were some hoax. The writer of the article may have an agenda, but the facts are still the same. Other than that what has been exposed?

Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
reply to post by LuckyLucian

 

Have you been following the thread? Have you read how it has been exposed?
Especially the author of the article?
None of the other anti-Christianites will address it.
I am waiting for a show down with them.
I am not trying to avoid your well thought out reply to me.
Thank you very much.
One point at the end of your reply I remember was about native Americans and the USSR.
My question basically was "How would they like living under Communist rule instead of Christian democracy. And ask a Russian. The Reds were anti religon, like you claim to be.
thanks for you patience. I will get back to you

a show down
?
the authour of the post is relaying an article published by norwegian archaeologists
you didn't even know that even though the link from the article was posted three or four times
you haven't dealt with a thing on this thread
like the historical record of christian destruction I just posted
conversions for every reason but for anything the mythical christ stood for

show down???

Geta grip ole boy,

Can you produce the article?
Let's start now.

from the link in the op that was missed by so many and posted so many times:

According to Rønne, it was easy to interpret [the building] as a god temple from the Norse sources. So it was also from precisely the Trøndelag area that the largest exodus of people who would retain their freedom and not become Christians took place. A large part of them went to Iceland between 870 and 930 AD, i.e., during the time of Harald Fairhair. In all, 40 people from Trøndelag are specifically mentioned in the Norse sources. In Iceland, their descendants later wrote a large part of these sources.

"Indications are that the people who deliberately covered up the god temple at Ranheim took the posts from the stave house/pole building, in addition to the soil from the altar, to the place where they settled down and raised a new god temple. Because our findings and the Norse sources work well together, the sources may be more reliable than many scientists believed," said Rønne.

www.freethoughtnation.com...
well what do you know

Originally posted by longjohnbritches

Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by longjohnbritches
reply to post by LuckyLucian

 

Have you been following the thread? Have you read how it has been exposed?
Especially the author of the article?
None of the other anti-Christianites will address it.
I am waiting for a show down with them.
I am not trying to avoid your well thought out reply to me.
Thank you very much.
One point at the end of your reply I remember was about native Americans and the USSR.
My question basically was "How would they like living under Communist rule instead of Christian democracy. And ask a Russian. The Reds were anti religon, like you claim to be.
thanks for you patience. I will get back to you

a show down
?
the authour of the post is relaying an article published by norwegian archaeologists
you didn't even know that even though the link from the article was posted three or four times
you haven't dealt with a thing on this thread
like the historical record of christian destruction I just posted
conversions for every reason but for anything the mythical christ stood for

show down???

Geta grip ole boy,

Can you produce the article?
Let's start now.

produce the article?
like in the posts preceding yours?
its been linked too at least three times
plus its in th OP which you couldn't even have read
start now?
I started in POST 1 page 1

all this flaq from posters who haven't read the OP
there isn't much respect for those that don't read the OP before posting

its considered poor form

reply to post by LuckyLucian


indians and the cccp
let me summarize

the author quoted in the OP who linked to the norwegiean article quoting the Norwegian archaeologists was accused of being a zionist shill by someone who claims the whole OP is christian bashing.

while zionists killed some 35 million christians in the CCCP under Stalin some 30 million americans are christian zionists....The christian zionists claim America and Canada are christian countries, but they are founded on mostly dishonered treaties signed by christians and the deaths of some millions and million of abouriginals...like the Mayans and Aztecs

while as you say LL the US is founded on the principles of the separation of church and state it has a constitution that was PARTLY inspired by an Indian, a Huron named Deganawidah who was rumored to be a virgin birth
He now has a cross on his birth place, which was where they had the first mass in upper Canada.
he is largly forgotten know locally, its just a cross saying there was the first mass in upper Canada
few know what is under the cross.

as JC said they don't come back

he is not forgotten by the Iroquis though:
Daganawidah founded the worlds first true democracy which is also still sovereign today the Iroquis SIX NATIONS because he had visions the Christians were coming. His people the Huron who didn't listen to him
were gone within 15 years of the arrival of the jesuits and the christians
looks like he was right

so we have a pattern of conquest in norway, same as here
it is christian bashing Im told to point this all out, and becasue I asked if any one else has a holy site with a church parked on it
RM pointed out as did wikipeadia that this is relatively common in some places especially if there are lay lines in the spot....

reply to post by longjohnbritches


Again, no concept of what atheism actually is. It is not a matter of belief or faith. Religion requires you to believe in god without proof. An atheist sees no proof, thus, no god. No person living or dead has ever brought forth proof of god. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow, not because super-sky-man says so, but because mans ability to understand the world and universe around him has shown it to be true. I have faith that I'm going to be hungry in a little while because when I haven't eaten in hours... I get hungry. Get it?
What do I care about the number of christians there are? God is having a popularity contest now? I don't care if 7 billion people are wrong. They're still wrong.
Freedom Bond? Who died? Wha..? Did you just suddenly throw 9/11 into this?
Yes, I am offended. Offended by the self-righteous that take credit for the work of many races, creeds and beliefs and boldly lie, saying only they are responsible for the effort of many.
I don't have the slightest clue what freedom you're even referring to.
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I may be since your ability to form cohesive argument is lacking), but were you not referring to the American Revolution when you stated "it was mostly nothern (sic) European Christians that fought and died to give you the opportunity to speak and live more freely here"? Were our founding fathers not a part of said revolution? Were they not the leaders of it?
And McCarthy was not "correct". His witch hunt was antithetical to our very way of life. There is nothing "correct" about trying to eliminate dissenting ideas on how to run facets of our country. It's a necessary and responsible part of governance to evaluate all options and processes. Only the small minded, xenophobic, or power-mad think that way.

Re athiesm
you can't prove a negative
Im going to just simplify and ask those yelling "christian bashing",
while they are not reading the OP
and asking for proof which is well posted now
the christians were invading, the norse pagans had to move

again
please prove jesus exists

"it was mostly nothern (sic) European Christians that fought and died to give you the opportunity to speak and live more freely here"?

the first democracy was already here when the christians arrived
they have been trying to destroy it ever since

The Six Nations:
Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth

www.ratical.org...

and put a church on it



edit to add

The original United States representative democracy, fashioned by such central authors as Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, drew much inspiration from this confederacy of nations. In our present day, we can benefit immensely, in our quest to establish anew a government truly dedicated to all life's liberty and happiness much as has been practiced by the Six Nations for over 800 hundred years

reply to post by Danbones

This intrigues me...
Why do christians have to destroy and/or build on top of other people's holy sites?

I'm not quite sure about Norway. Can someone tell me if they were a part of the Roman Empire? Why I ask is that's what the Romans did to all the pagan worship temples when Christianity was made the state religion of the Empire by Theodosius I. Norway seems kinda far to me, but they may have been a part of the Empire.