It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Destiny versus Causality

page: 3
5
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 29 2012 @ 10:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by Starchild23

Originally posted by prevenge

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by prevenge
 
There are no supernatural influences consistently plucking strings in every individual life, such as gods or fates: we simply don't understand the nature of reality yet.


and HOW you know that they do not and have never existed in this infinite universe(s) .. ?

given enough time to develop technologically.. any intelligent race could develop time travel... and augment the past in order to secure a specific timeline.. or create new time lines or outcomes or multiverses


Because of the "Causality Sequence". No human is capable of ever going back and adjusting the one variable needed to change history without ****ing up all of history. It's just impossible. And not only that...it's a lethal effort, one that could cost as many as thousands of lives.


Well, from the perspective you adhere to, one with a finite number of timelines and realities (multiverses).. actually, from what I'm feeling you only 'believe' in the existence of ONE timeline and ONE universe.. even though current string-theory and quanum physicists are on the large lending towards a "multiverse model" where infinite possibilities are expressed at any given moment, but what's most LIKELY to manifest in these infinite versions of reality are the most probable ones based on causality and choice....

lending toward YOUR limited view (IMO) of ONE timeline and ONE universe existing... if someone went back and did something that prevented a number of beings in that timeline to be "conceived" (in the biblical carnal sense) ..
then in no way were those lives "lost"... "no "cost" of thousands of lives.. .. ie: they simple NEVER were conceived in the first place.. YET who's to say by that very same 'timeline adjustment" that caused those people to NOT be conceived... a much larger amount of people WERE conceived... IE.. someone kills Hitler... all the people killed by him actually conceived children and exponentially .. TODAY.. Europe has twice if not triple the amount of people in it.. making the scenario that's occurring now with the collapse of the Euro.. all that much more uncontrollable and poverty stricken....

sidenot: No Hitler... No Israel... (something to think about) ...



Why change history that has already happened? Who on earth has the right to play God like that? Who thinks they are so smart that not only do they know exactly what the world is supposed to be and how to make the correct adjustments, but that they have the right to do so as well?


Well I'd hope that any specific individual that has "instructions" from a collective board of scientists.. to go and do such a thing.. woul have it on RELATIVELY GOOD INFO.. that what he-she is doing messing with the past.. would 'adjust' their current reality into something more beneficial for the collective human existence as a whole...
Hell there's so many loopholes and issues you could pick at forever...

If you're stuck to the ONE UNIVERSE - ONE TIMELINE concept... .. .because if you're limited to ONE timeline.. then sure.. you can't exist to kill your grandfather... end of story so stop thinking about it. and never re-examine the concept..

BUT if you consider an INFINITE TIMELINES model (or whatever amount of timelines would be most probable).. meaning infinite potentiality.. yet adhering to a finite amount that considers causality as it's base and human choice with time travel potential in mind... ..then you have to relinquish the time-travel paradox of killing your grandfather.. and consider that NEW timelines are CREATED via these "adjustment" points... new "offshoot timeline-universes" while leaving the original intact..



Source is the only entity who knows exactly what to do for what effect. To change that plan is to insult the reason your world exists.


you seem to be religiously attached to the concept you've formed.. and i think that's romantic and all.. but can be quite dangerous in the sense that you've ceased questioning anything further than what the walls of your current belief system convey. Don't take what i'm saying so personally...



Arrogance. Sheer arrogance. If I knew anyone who did that...I would commit unspeakable acts.


see.. that's the kind of nutty stuff we hear fanatic radical islamists and christians say... but yours is of a different flavor...

I appreciate the talk here.. and discussion about all that is.. but if you're threatening violence against something you know verrrrry little about as far as the reasons for specific incursions of actions (ie: the tremendous effort of timeline - multiverse re-adjustment) .. then i think you might want to sit back .. breathe a little and consider a broader reality..

the one I've just relayed..
I just find your expressed perspective on reality very limited and in no way considering the true infinite of expression.

have fun!

edit on 3/29/2012 by prevenge because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 10:31 AM
link   
reply to post by prevenge
 




lending toward YOUR limited view (IMO) of ONE timeline and ONE universe existing... if someone went back and did something that prevented a number of beings in that timeline to be "conceived" (in the biblical carnal sense) ..
then in no way were those lives "lost"... "no "cost" of thousands of lives.. .. ie: they simple NEVER were conceived in the first place.. YET who's to say by that very same 'timeline adjustment" that caused those people to NOT be conceived... a much larger amount of people WERE conceived... IE.. someone kills Hitler... all the people killed by him actually conceived children and exponentially .. TODAY.. Europe has twice if not triple the amount of people in it.. making the scenario that's occurring now with the collapse of the Euro.. all that much more uncontrollable and poverty stricken....

sidenot: No Hitler... No Israel... (something to think about) ...


I'm failing to see where your disagreement is...


Well I'd hope that any specific individual that has "instructions" from a collective board of scientists.. to go and do such a thing.. woul have it on RELATIVELY GOOD INFO.. that what he-she is doing messing with the past.. would 'adjust' their current reality into something more beneficial for the collective human existence as a whole...
Hell there's so many loopholes and issues you could pick at forever...


You're relying on the same race that constructed the atomic bomb and committed genocide...to go back and fix history? A race that continually kills its own kin, would be responsible for every second that has ever occurred in the history of man?

You have a lot of faith in this homicidal species.

Indeed, there are many things you could fix. The problem is, I don't believe for one nanosecond that any human being, now or in the future, has the functional capability to pinpoint the precise solution for making sure that not only will those issues be resolves, but that the solution itself won't introduce a plethora of catastrophes in its own turn. In fact, the potential for the solution to cause mass chaos within our world is literally infinite...since the chain reaction will, quite conceivably, never end...because time will never end.


BUT if you consider an INFINITE TIMELINES model (or whatever amount of timelines would be most probable).. meaning infinite potentiality.. yet adhering to a finite amount that considers causality as it's base and human choice with time travel potential in mind... ..then you have to relinquish the time-travel paradox of killing your grandfather.. and consider that NEW timelines are CREATED via these "adjustment" points... new "offshoot timeline-universes" while leaving the original intact..


But does anyone know exactly how to do this? No. Why? Because no one can tell the future. No one can take trillions of variables and fit them all together, predicting exactly how these variables will interact to form new variables, and how those new variables will affect the events in question. Additionally, the future is not set in stone, because the variables are not yet in place. Do you understand time at all?

I don't think you do.


you seem to be religiously attached to the concept you've formed.. and i think that's romantic and all.. but can be quite dangerous in the sense that you've ceased questioning anything further than what the walls of your current belief system convey. Don't take what i'm saying so personally...


Seeming and being are two entirely different concepts. Religion is a deep-rooted faith in an agreed-upon interpretation. In other words, religion is a choice of perception, not truth. I am a fan of truth, not religion. Perception is just as easily delusion as it is awareness. Romantic? Hardly. It's realistic. Reality is very rarely romantic, what with all of the aforementioned variables and such.

I take what you're saying personally? No offense, but you are a bunch of words on my screen. You are little more than a voice in my . that I can shut down with a click of a button. So, no. I'm not only not taking you personally, I'm barely taking you seriously.

That's how I've survived thus far.



posted on Mar, 30 2012 @ 10:36 AM
link   
reply to post by prevenge
 


Continuing my response...



see.. that's the kind of nutty stuff we hear fanatic radical islamists and christians say... but yours is of a different flavor...

I appreciate the talk here.. and discussion about all that is.. but if you're threatening violence against something you know verrrrry little about as far as the reasons for specific incursions of actions (ie: the tremendous effort of timeline - multiverse re-adjustment) .. then i think you might want to sit back .. breathe a little and consider a broader reality..

the one I've just relayed..
I just find your expressed perspective on reality very limited and in no way considering the true infinite of expression.


Well, if someone was so incredibly dull-witted as to believe they could change history without repercussions, they are a danger to the present society as well...not to mention a puppet for a government that is only interested in power and control. And before you argue, yes...that is exactly how it would play out.

Take a breather? Oh, I'm calm...because I know that not only is time travel very unlikely, but that as soon as it becomes possible, we will all know. The human race is incapable of letting well enough alone, so we'll see changes everywhere. You might no longer exist, in fact.


My expressed perspective on reality is so limited, expression wise (intentionally, of course. I'm too lazy to type it all out in detail for a site that doesn't appreciate it) that you have no clue as to what's in my . right now. I suggest you dismount your high horse and stop talking to me like I'm an imbecilic child.


Have a wonderful day, my friend.



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 06:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Starchild23
 


i'll get around to replying.. don't have time just now.. though i'll help you out to see some things in a bit. thnx for the patience buddy



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 06:32 PM
link   
reply to post by Starchild23
 


There is a philosophy called the Primordian Philosophy, and one of its tenets is that if an argument is unsolvable it means that both elements contain truth. In this case, the question of life being the result of causality or of fate, the answer would be it's a bit of both. I believe that there is a certain "default" mode in life- the easy path, the obvious choice. This is the seemingly fated life that most people experience. They react to their circumstances or their environment in an all to predictable way. But, it is also true that we have choice, and that we can break free from the fated paradigm of our day to day lives by seeking action beyond the obvious. In this way we can affect the direction of our lives, and thus in a sense create our own fate. After all, isn't that what fate is- direction? We wind up at a point and we feel we've been steered to that point all along- so it's fate. But any action that we take now in essence steers us in a new direction. So perhaps it is about life being fated. The only question is whether you take an active role in creating your fate, or do you simply let the world around you write your destiny.
edit on 31-3-2012 by WILAWAI because: mistake in username



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:38 PM
link   
reply to post by WILAWAI
 


if an argument is unsolvable it means that it is opposed to truth
different true arguments meet definitely in truth and absolutely where clearly only truth would show being the exclusive existence fact

but what is truth existence, is it absolute superiority or objective absolute constancy?? both are plus so true

this is where i see what u meant, when truth is freedom objective value

then any right move out of self constant reality is possible anytime as free from itself in truth existence being out of existing constancy, freedom superiority or objective value perspective



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:42 PM
link   
reply to post by WILAWAI
 


Who says it's unsolvable?

It's explained by the "Causality Sequence", an infinitely large web of variables which all have an effect on this world and its inhabitants. There's nothing unsolvable about that...we just can't grasp it.

Just because a solution cannot be grasped by human intellect, does not make it nonexistence. It's simply imperceptible, in its full glorious extent, to the human mind.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:57 PM
link   
no matter where you go or what you do:

you will end up at a predetermined EVENT:

The concept of Destiny is intrinsically linked to the idea of Alternate Realities.

Destiny is about truth and falsehood.

The concept of destiny arises from the human desire to know: THE TRUTH.

Surely each and everyone one of you can agree...we do not know the truth.

Apparently the universe is not burdened by such things. furthermore, the universe has a way to impart this information to men...the concept of Destiny is what many call it.

the world today, lets assume is the product or sum of every event that has occurred on Earth from right now backwards until the beginning of time.

some of those events were...unfortunate.

all those who experienced an 'unfortunate' event whether they were the loser or winner of it...will have to relive the event...

...a do-over if you will...and this do-over will determine what actually happened...on that fateful day...and the outcome will determine the future from that point forward.

this do-over, for lack of a better phrase, will also reveal the nature of lying and falsehood.

here's an example:

a rich man loses everything he has because someone lied, so he says, and said he did something he did not.

a generation later, the man's son, a poor homeless wanderer, because of his father's alleged actions, will have the opportunity to relive the same set of circumstances his father faced.

but in this do-over, none of the same things occurred that were alleged to have occurred in the first event.

its immediately found that a lie was told and that the man told the truth and his son gets back everything, plus interest.

his son regains all that was his.

the liar dies.

that is the concept of destiny.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Starchild23
 


truth has no cause so never through causality, truth existence is always free superior dimension meaning objective being exlusively definitive value of freedom fact

truth exist, that is why true argument is always an absolute right reality
any contradiction point exclude truth character to arguments which then belongs to causality chains of being nothing to truth or evil powers life means



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 11:40 AM
link   
reply to post by absolutely
 


Belief is more powerful than truth.

People will die for truth, but they will kill for belief.

Also, you cannot always convince a man of the truth, but you can always make him believe a lie.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by absolutely
 


Belief is more powerful than truth.

People will die for truth, but they will kill for belief.

Also, you cannot always convince a man of the truth, but you can always make him believe a lie.


what u mean to call belief is ur true will, so it is still of truth

when truth is freedom then truth existence is objective freedom reality but also individuals free existing senses

it is all about what is true and what is not true and what is a lie, to say what exist and what do not exist and what has no right to exist



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:50 PM
link   
reply to post by absolutely
 




what u mean to call belief is ur true will, so it is still of truth


Belief is what we are capable of accepting. It has nothing to do with "true will" or truth.


when truth is freedom then truth existence is objective freedom reality but also individuals free existing senses


And who says truth is freedom? Truth can be more restrictive and imprisoning than chains at times...but only belief can change perception. Truth is universal and exact; it cannot be twisted except in how it's interpreted. Belief is uncontrollable and immense, and can make anyone do anything.

Neither belief nor truth automatically mean freedom. You have a flawed grasp on the fundamentals of reality.



it is all about what is true and what is not true and what is a lie, to say what exist and what do not exist and what has no right to exist


You can't always convince a man of the truth, but you can always make him believe a lie. Truth is no longer relevant...it's control. And manipulating beliefs results in control over the masses. This is why belief is stronger than truth...Truth can only be twisted so far, but belief makes virtually anything possible, provided you pay enough people to fake evidence and agree with you.
edit on CMondaypm070754f54America/Chicago02 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:51 PM
link   
reply to post by Starchild23
 


as it is ur will to state nimporte koi

noone will die for truth, it is totally absurd to say that so it proves that u r a liar, inventing anything for smthg else in ur mind

the definition of true is what it cant but be always superior, and any that mean truth is superior to truth so definitive always plus



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 12:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Starchild23
 


it is that claim having no grasp on anything real when u r what state lies being convincing, so obviously u mean ur life in lies constantly, while u also claim that killing is a way of being existing

so u prove alone that ur fancy about knowing anything concerning things or others concern only urself isolated . alone



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:12 PM
link   
u r an evil opportunist to an extreme extent, when u clearly mean the truth to b, u act for being above truth
and that is why u call belief what u mean being free will, the concept of belief in ur mind is to pretenses by using truth known

truth by definition is what is always and beyond so nothing to any relatif fact and definitely opposed to means

that is how only philosophers mean the truth for nothing particularly but enjoying being free minds beyond objective whole existence reality

n the argument that say how lies are powerful and powers are everything dont matter at all

when what matter is exclusively the consideration given to freedom rights and objective values in absolute terms



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:14 PM
link   
THE PLUS is what matter

enjoy the end.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by absolutely
reply to post by Starchild23
 


it is that claim having no grasp on anything real when u r what state lies being convincing, so obviously u mean ur life in lies constantly, while u also claim that killing is a way of being existing

so u prove alone that ur fancy about knowing anything concerning things or others concern only urself isolated . alone


Interesting allegation, considering you are incapable of coherent communication via posting.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 01:20 PM
link   
considering u, there cant b any interests to grasp an idea of my posts



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 04:04 PM
link   
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Love your signature. It's very similar to the Middle Ground concept of the Primordian Philosophy. It states that any unsolvable argument can only exist because each side contains an element of truth- thus the whole truth lies in the middle, not on the polar extremes. Happy day to you.



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 04:07 PM
link   
reply to post by WILAWAI
 


enlighten me with an example plz? wat is that an argument insolved? while the answer is the middle ??



new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 1  2    4 >>

log in

join