HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

Originally posted by WingedBull

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
It has struck me more than once that much of this sort of discussion seems to come down to 'brown people couldn't do it'. 18th and 19th century explanation of American Mississippian culture specialises in this kind of assertion. Is there then a racist element to the 'ancient alien' thesis?

I will not debate this as it is a mere observation, and an uncomfortable one at that. But I can't help but note that nobody doubts that (white) humans built the great medieval cathedrals of Europe.

..They are stuck in the mythology that North American cultures was a primitive stone-age culture before the coming of Europeans; therefore, the ancient alien proponents cannot accept these cultures, every bit as advanced as the contemporaneous European cultures, were capable of the feats they accomplished.

The ancient astronaut proponents are absolutely, and abashedly, racist.

Maybe they are stuckto the believe that about 12000 years ago, tall, white skinned, bearded, blue eyed atlantean survivors ( HIGH TECH OF COURSE ) spread into ´primitive ´cultures around the world.
And that, because somebody told them so

reply to post by Xtrozero

man CAN do some crazy things today with the technology that has come about in the last 100 yrs or so, but the fact remains that the work done at these ancient sites such as handling a thousand ton block perfectly is not some ethereal concept based on determination alone. You guys can't even come close to explain how else it could've been done. It's not just the cutting, it's the lifting that is inescapable. You can't match what it takes to lift that much weight with logs and rope. Can't do it. Now Phage says "well they obviously used natural materials and had a lot of ingenuity." but he is just pulling that card out of his whatever. You can gloss over the reality of these feats with fantasy but you are definitely not proving your argument.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

right and it's still attached at the bottom. How do you remove it from the trench? we wouldn't/couldn't even do it that way today

I haven't been to that site, but maybe the reason it cracked is because they had already cut half of the bottom and that caused the weight of it to crack a long a weak fault point.

The proof is they did cut and shape 3 sides and you are saying they could not cut the fourth side?

Once it was freed they would just need to cut a nice smooth sloped ramp in the rock...do you think they would be only able to just lift it out...

edit on 21-3-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

laugh all you want at yourself because you haven't a clue what you're talking about. the stone is attached all along the bottom with the entire weight over top how are they supposed to cut the bottom loose? Even today stones are quarried off a clff face not out of trenches. Your blithe attitude toward the scale of work is your Acheilles heel.

Originally posted by bjarneorn
Because searching for an alien connection, is nothing less of searching for God. Instead of rational thinking, you go to a "higher" power, and as you've given up hope for a spiritual God, you seek to replace him with an alien.

I think this is a very profound statement and very true. Aliens is the atheist's modern god, I suggested in a post earlier that the fact that we can think in the abstract is what has allowed us to advance as we have, allowed us to build and create things that only existed in our brains and dream up abstractedly thoughts, like math, and apply them to our real world.

A byproduct to this great ability is religion or some form of it. I really do not think we can ever get away from it, because it is a part of how we think, and this whole aliens replacing a higher power is just a repeat from our past when we replaced all the gods of old down to one. We now have people who say there is no supreme being, but there are super advance aliens. It also explains their dogma that is unwavering no matter what is put forth.

Originally posted by anti72
Maybe they are stuckto the believe that about 12000 years ago, tall, white skinned, bearded, blue eyed atlantean survivors ( HIGH TECH OF COURSE ) spread into ´primitive ´cultures around the world.
And that, because somebody told them so.

I do find all this type of stuff fun to read about, and I'm well aware of and have read many alternate works like Immanuel Velikovsky, but one theme I keep finding in all of these works is I see huge canyons of logic that need to be crossed but these authors treat them like mere steps.

When I look at the ancient advance race of man that somehow fell a part to totally disappear except for stone works there comes a canyon of logic that needs to be crossed. That canyon is why is there nothing else?

If we look at humans today, the reason we have advance so fast in the last 1000 years and exponentially in the last 100 is because communication has continually become better and better. Also, another big factor is that there are more of us and so we are like bits in a computer program, the more we are the more powerful we become.

Now if we go back let's say before the ice age which peaked 20,000 years ago, and also almost extinct us, to 30,000 years ago and suggest there was an advance race of man I would need to apply our current model that we have today of high tech communication and lots of us for this to happen, but there is nothing to suggest this at all...nothing but stone work.

If we get really crazy and suggest millions of years ago there was an advance race we start to approach the point where man was no longer man, but some monkey like creature that branched off into many classes of the ape tree we are from. This is where one needs to cross another big canyon of logic and it is reduced to a small step by suggesting aliens made us.


I find these alternate theories very sexy and all, but they just do not fit into a single puzzle of our past.

I think these guys on the show are full of # most of the times. They are just pushing too hard for publicity and making their valid points seem even stronger.

When this fancy haired dude says that, log theory goes out the window because there were no trees in that altitude I just want to go up and ask him, what if they carried the logs as well to set-up this constrution site. It's pretty wicked but when Ottomans conquered Istanbul they slided battleships over logs to get them behind the hill and into the chained-off bosphorus. Puma-punku is way older but you get my drift. Old people can get very determined sometimes.

Having said that, the way the stones are cut are baffling and the close inspection of the cut marks are even more curious. The way I see it an advanced civilization is the best explanation for this site. There are some cases where believers really need to put in the effort to give their theories some ground but for this case I think the burden of proof is on the sceptics to come up with better explanations of how all this could have been done by a primitive stone age civilization.

The advanced civilization could be us in the past mind you, but I find it even more sci-fi since we don't have anything left from such a civilization. It's much harder to explaing where all that stuff went. Compared to stoneage people carving smooth right angle monuments and ancient very advanced human civilizations who disappeared without a trace, I find the theory of E.T. coming down, building it, leaving and blowing it up more beliavable.

I would like to hear some alternative suggestions from sceptics though.

Edit: Re-reading my post I realize some can take it as I don't believe the ancient people could have done this, that's why I resport to a higher power. We humans are too stupid for that.. On the contrary I believe that we are in such an advanced spot right now we should be able to explain all the tricks up these guys' sleeves. We are not lacking their creativity but also we have a couple of thousands years worth of experience and technology to base our current day solutions. If we currently can't figure out how to build these without our current technology then I see a problem there.

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by bottleslingguy

right and it's still attached at the bottom. How do you remove it from the trench? we wouldn't/couldn't even do it that way today

I haven't been to that site, but maybe the reason it cracked is because they had already cut half of the bottom and that caused the weight of it to crack a long a weak fault point.

The proof is they did cut and shape 3 sides and you are saying they could not cut the fourth side?

Once it was freed they would just need to cut a nice smooth sloped ramp in the rock...do you think they would be only able to just lift it out...

edit on 21-3-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

laugh all you want at yourself because you haven't a clue what you're talking about. the stone is attached all along the bottom with the entire weight over top how are they supposed to cut the bottom loose? Even today stones are quarried off a clff face not out of trenches. Your blithe attitude toward the scale of work is your Acheilles heel.

here is some writings on it..

How was it done: It is now known that the main tool employed for carving the granite were small balls of Dolerite which is a mineral harder than granite, as seen at the open air museum/quarry at Aswan, Egypt today. The discovery of this obelisk and several others in their unfinished states allows us to see how they were made. The means of separating the stone from the bedrock was a common technique used around the ancient world, in which small cavities were made in the stone, which were then filled with wood, which was soaked in water causing it to expand (See photo, right. Aswan, Egypt)

I can picture in my mind that they might dig under it leaving thin areas still attached a long the monolith and then using wood to push it up and break it away from the last thin attached points. while they were doing this they could dig a sloped ramp to drag it out of the pit and then they are on their way to were ever they planned to raise it.
I'm no expert and I sure do not have the skill that they had for 100, or 1000s of years... just saying.


Edit to add...

Here is a stone 2x larger than the monolith. This one was cut on all 4 sides and moved, but discarded for some reason..

reply to post by Kantzveldt



Furthur considerations, looking at the textile traditions of the Paracas style from around this period and the subsequent Inca textiles, one finds exactly what one would expect to see in terms of correspondance between these and the decorative elements of the Puma Punku and Tiahuanaco stone carving, and that these are undoubtably of the same cultural context.


There still appears a void to me in terms of architectural/technological stonework developments, but the unusual style of the site could perhaps be explained by this being the zenith of a period where there was great interest in and development of these geometric patterns, previously i demonstrated how even the 'H' motif can be derivative of such.















It still intrigues me how this approach to pattern making finds such correspondance with the early Neolithic paintings from Syria, dating to around 11,000 years ago, the answer perhaps to be found though at the start of the great Peruvian city cultures which are being found to date back to this period...


Relatively little is known about the site, as almost no physical remains other than the gigantic earthen structures and buildings the Norte Chico left behind, can be studied. Some 13 carbon datable items have been found at over 30 sites dotting the coast and further inland. Of 95 samples taken, 10 revealed very old dates, going back to 9210 BC, and others up to 3700 BC of sticks believed associated with the monumental construction projects



Notre Chico

Originally posted by anti72

Maybe they are stuckto the believe that about 12000 years ago, tall, white skinned, bearded, blue eyed atlantean survivors ( HIGH TECH OF COURSE ) spread into ´primitive ´cultures around the world.
And that, because somebody told them so.

Who told them that?

They believe the 12,000 year dating for Tiwanaku/Pumapunku because that is what Ponsasky claimed during the 1940s, ignoring all the subsequent findings. They hold on to the myth that the Pre-Columbian peoples of the Americas were stone-age hunter-gatherers, because the ancient alien proponents need them to be ignorant savages.

As for the all, white-skinned bearded blue-eyed god, I think that is a myth created by the Spanish. Recent scholarship would seem to support this. As well, Aztec art work certainly does not depict Queztacoatl as a white man...



But why actually listen to what the cultures themselves had to say? We already know the ancient alien proponents are very comfortable with dismissing what the cultures were saying and replacing them with lies and generalities.

ATS policy on comments that do not add to the discussion

reply to post by sirjunlegun


Water expands when cooled and dramatically expands when frozen. Thats science for ya; providing answers where speculation can not.

Do we have any chance at all of AA using science when the science proves that their theories are invalid and therefor their cash cow of a show is just short of fraud )if viewed through scientific eyes)?

Plug these coordinates 16.555°S 68.6736°W into Google and look north of Highway 1 about 1/2 mile. Can anyone tell me what that grid is all about??? South of the highway is the Tiwanaku archeological site.

Originally posted by bilb_o
There are some cases where believers really need to put in the effort to give their theories some ground but for this case I think the burden of proof is on the sceptics to come up with better explanations of how all this could have been done by a primitive stone age civilization.

According to a Carbon 14 dating, that site is 1500 years old, not from the stone age.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by bilb_o
There are some cases where believers really need to put in the effort to give their theories some ground but for this case I think the burden of proof is on the sceptics to come up with better explanations of how all this could have been done by a primitive stone age civilization.

According to a Carbon 14 dating, that site is 1500 years old, not from the stone age.

Could you link to the post that you are referring to??? I'm having a hard time finding it so that I can verify it.

bilb_o doesn't seem to exist in the member files.


Thank you... whatever someone did. They are once again on the members list.

reply to post by shushu


I was not referring to a post, I was referring to this book. On page 230 they say:

A radiocarbon date for the wall post from a domestic structure dates 1120 ± 60 B.P. (calibrated A.D. 897, 1 sigma range, A.D. 880–986; Goldstein 1993: 32).

On page 238:

A radiocarbon date from the earliest construction epoch places it at 1510 ± 25 B.P. (A.D. 440; calibrated, A.D. 536–600).

Originally posted by bilb_o I think the burden of proof is on the sceptics to come up with better explanations of how all this could have been done by a primitive stone age civilization.

The skeptics (aka: mainstream archaeologists) have done decades of work there, making findings, studying the evidence, indepth, intensive. The believers on the other hand, have done nothing of the sort. Even if the answer, in regards to how it was built, was we don't know (but we do, the ancient alien proponents just ignore this, then lie about the stance of mainstream archaeologists), that would not mean by default the ancient astronaut belief is true. Therefore, the burden of proof is still on the believers.

reply to post by shushu


can you post a pic of what u mean?
theres nothing I can find..

I think some of you noobs have got something backward here....

reply to post by 1AnunnakiBastard


I enjoy Ancient Aliens, and I go back and forth between, "hmm, that is odd" and "wow, that's worse that Giorgio's hair". I agree the Puma Punku episode was one of the better ones I've seen in a while, and the site does raise a lot of questions, but there was still a lot of stuff that wasn't very well thought out.

Like the hinge theory on the H-blocks... where's the hole for the pin guys? If the block was shaped like a V he'd say it might be an engine and never mention the lack of moving parts.


edit to add: I'm sorry for the shot at his hair. I looked at the post above mine, and when I realized just how big of a font you can use on his forehead, I realized that the hair is serving a very important purpose... all show business is magic, and it's all about misdirection. Without the hair, he'd have to admit the enlongated skulls were just his ancestors.

Originally posted by Xtrozero


Here is a stone 2x larger than the monolith. This one was cut on all 4 sides and moved, but discarded for some reason..

There are a lot of these around, which I insist suggest one thing ... the earth changed, and these stones were suddenly to heavy to transport.

Consider these stones, at one point being "more like sandstone", and at this time actually "lighter". Many of these stones (if not all), show magnetic anomaly, that I consider suggest this.