HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

reply to post by nineix


That leaf for softening stone was brought up already several pages ago. Your site said someone tested this but was unable to turn the stone solid. It doesn't say it was diorite either, just "stone". Diorite is among the hardest stones in the world, there's no telling if this method would even work on it.

Anyway, also from that site:

There is strong evidence that advanced machine tools must have been used to make certain ancient Egyptian artefacts.
...
The use of advanced tools is also a possibility.

The plant theory is not the end all and be all for how Puma Punku and other very complex things were formed. It's a possibility though, yeah.

reply to post by coldlikecustard


Thanks


You got it all down, I would also like to note that I am always changing my mind. I think that is healthy, that way you do not get too embedded in to something to the point where you practice it religiously. Anyways cheers

reply to post by AdamsMurmur


My point is, the plant extract would make things very much easier.
The researcher may have not been able to un-soften the stone after the technique was applied, but, that' doesn't mean that it can't be done.
It's chemistry. The plant extract activates with the silica in the rock, causing the rigid crystalline matrix in the silicate into a malleable state, where then after a desired shape is achieved, a 2nd deactivating agent, or process could very well be involved.

As to the level of precision, if you look back to my posts regarding the evidence presented with the Cuneform Bowl, we've some strong evidence of Sumerians on the ground.

With Sumerians, you get some advanced math, science, and engineering from an established state of the art bronze age technology civilization. That's like automobile compared to horse and buggy of the local stone age technology in South America.

Keep in mind also, there's more than one plant involved. One plant softens the rock, while the other plant keeps the workers wide awake, peppy, happy, and full of energy.

reply to post by nineix


I would beg to differ on your comment about anyone could do it....because we are just discovering the mathematics involved in the building of many of these structures....the precise astronomical alignments....the reasons why the golden number keeps appearing in these structures......the reason why they had the ability to design for the resistance to earth quakes.....the Reason why they found the speed of light embedded in the inner and outer circles of the pyramid of Giza...and yes many people will say just coincidence.....but when one points out so many coincidences ....it becomes worthless....to many coincidences that it has to be more than just coincidence...

Your thoughts and ideas are well founded...but they are just thoughts.....they are not written in stone....so when others have an opinion on if it could be Aliens....dead babies....or The gods themselves that made the structures....they do not deserved to be YAWNED at because they do not meet your own analysis.....

The way they are presented in history makes what is said questionable....with all our tech today we would have difficulty constructing these sites.....so if history says man with simple tools and little understanding of the cosmos constructed these then it does not make sense to people today.....were they assisted.....or was it just a much more intellectual us.....no one really knows....but one thing is becoming certain......these structures sure make mans buildings of today look like poppycock......we build things shinny and gleaming and high....using light weight design and materials......yet we if we were tasked to build say the pyramid of giza....we would most likely fail.....and then add to that...is we were ask to incorporate the speed of light into the mix...with the golden number......and to line it up with a fixed timing device ....say a star...that moves 1degree every 72 years and know that in say ummmmm.....26000 yrs it will precisely point to that star agin...and still be on the planet....and to still be just as precise as the day it was built......hmmmmmmm.....I see trouble with that don't you?.

reply to post by coldlikecustard

Yes he did state his belief that ancient man in his mind was not capable but did not draw any conclusions as to who done it but he rather kept an open mind something that in your debunking you are clearly not doing as you are accepting mainstream science as irrefutable fact when quite frankly nothing on this subject is irrefutably proven which is why we are here discussing it. All i will say is keep an open mind and dont keep bashing people for believing something different.'

I'm sorry, did you read my post?

in your debunking you are clearly not doing as you are accepting mainstream science as irrefutable fact

I did nothing of the sort. Go back and read my post

Is it not hypocrisy to claim that science is stuck in dogmatic ideologies that refute evidence when you yourself will not accept the possibility that an ancient human civilisation could have quite possibly built it using techniques now lost?

As I stated in my post.....I have not taken sides....but.....To blatantly claim that ancient man was little more than a group of hunter gatherers, incapable of building anything but simple structures is complete rot. There are plenty of examples of ancient man building structures of precision - Roman Aqueducts, etc - that would be difficult even with modern tools.

I will reiterate my point.......I don't discount the alien theory, nor the ancient human theory, as both are possible......though the later - to me - is far more plausible given the evidence we have.

We HAVE evidence that man can build these structures.

We HAVE evidence that man has had knowledge of simple machines for many thousands of years.

We DON"T HAVE evidence of aliens nor their technologies.

Maybe, in the future, we will find evidence of ET's visiting Earth.

Until then, I think that we should be applying Occam's Razor unless other evidence comes to light that says otherwise.

reply to post by plube


Great points in your posts. If anyone should be able to recreate these methods then I would love to see it in the making. I am not shooting down the theory of plants "certain plants not any plant" softening rocks but some of these places lack vegetation. In a desert, at least at the time supposedly Egypt for instance. It would take a huge amount of vegetation to do so. But then you have all these cultures practicing the same method right or something similar, what if vegetation was brought from per say south America to Egypt? Imagine the logistics and manpower involved? It boggles the mind.

I just don't see it. But can we expect a do it yourself Puma Punku Chia Pet kit in our near future to ? jk

I think we may be looking in the wrong places for the answer. I believe much of Africa holds more secrets perhaps the answer. But if we all ready found the answer perhaps we misunderstood it? Or the answer is something that man has not even invented in his mind even, that we can not fathom today. What we would recognize as gods in modern time. Makes me think of overlapping time lines ya know, like planet of the apes in a sense.

reply to post by nineix


Coke?


I haven't forgotten about Sumeria. I've actually brought that bowl up twice (I think) in this thread but from a slightly different perspective. Seeing how their writing system is among the first that we know of, I think that what they would write is something more than fairy tales. The bowl mentions a goddess, other Sumerian text talk about the "you know whos", the epic of Gilgamesh and the flood story -- coincidentally, there is evidence of flooding at Puma Punku. So I'm not going to throw out their myths as being 100% false. They wrote something down because it was important to. The fact that Annunaki are depicted with beards like a stone statue in Tiwanaku (when the natives of the area do not have facial hair), is a further connection of Sumeria and the South Americas.

Another user brought up a story of the area that talks about white men with blue eyes and facial hair that came to South America and gave the natives some knowledge, but Sumerians... were they even white?

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


When it comes to the ancient Greeks we are willing to believe they built these great structures....but when it is said that the Greeks walk with the GODS we are willing to dismiss this as farcical......We cheery pick what we feel is accomplished to what we understand today...but when it moves into the realm of the unbelievable we think of it as unreasonable...because we do not understand it.

The buildings are a mystery....even the ones built during ancient Greek times.....but then we think they built them...but when it is said that they walked amongst their gods 'we say hold on a min there' so we are willing to believe one part of their history but not another......I find that strange.....should we not embrace their entire way of thinking and look for the connections as to why they would say these things......were there beings of a god like stature walking amongst them....overseeing their daily lives...and also participating in their lives.....we say no chance there......why can we have one without the other.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
reply to post by coldlikecustard

 

Thanks

You got it all down, I would also like to note that I am always changing my mind. I think that is healthy, that way you do not get too embedded in to something to the point where you practice it religiously. Anyways cheers

I agree with the changing mind thing, I call it learning.

In a nutshell I see things as: we were created around 250K yrs ago by a very similar species (more similar than the starchild skull type) that, just as we do today, had some issues. the Earth is and has been inhabited and visited by myriad other species and we humans are only one of them or as I like to call us: the Red-headed Stepchild of the Annunaki. And this is where I need to do some more learning: we have to intellectually evolve to a point so we (hopefully) will be able to join the grownups at the galactic dinner table. My bets are, that if given the truth, we will make the right choices as a species. cheers!

reply to post by OccamAssassin

We HAVE evidence that man can build these structures.

Where? I mean ancient man that is. Not modern man even all though that is yet to be proven as well.

The proof is in the pudding

We HAVE evidence that man has had knowledge of simple machines for many thousands of years.

How many thousands are we talking about? Many sounds like a half dozen, a dozen or more. Are we talking about the Antikythera mechanism here? Well that is thought to go back to the first century. There is no proof that such tech was abundant during that era but the mechanism itself. What if it was the invention of some genius? Just as example. Heck who knows if man made that either. It certainly deserved patent.

We DON"T HAVE evidence of aliens nor their technologies. Maybe, in the future, we will find evidence of ET's visiting Earth.

We, we the common citizen do not have such evidence that I am aware of. However the powers that be, government, military industrial complex or some country on earth may have knowledge or possession of such tech. And if they do and they did not want we the common citizen to know about it then we simply wont know for certain. Given the preponderance of evidence supporting the UFO subject something is happening . According to prominent witnesses, cops, pilots, astronauts. But that is a bit of another topic.

reply to post by plube


You have some valid points in regard to the mathematics and astronomy involved, but, that does not decrease, annul, or diminish my proposal that using the rock softening technique, combined with some forethought, planning, design, and sound engineering, it makes the need for power tools and some imaginative advanced technology that we don't even have (yet), entirely unneeded.

These structures, with the addition of the rock softening agent, DO NOT NEED advanced technologies to be possible.

The rock softening agent is a game changer.

As far as intelligence goes, anyone that discounts the ingenuity and perseverance of ancient peoples is looking at the whole picture with a cultural bias.

Example: Before cell phones, pretty much anyone had a stock storage of a dozen or more phone numbers they remembered. REMEMBERED. Now? How many phone numbers do you know by heart? Our memories are more reliant on computers, the cell phones themselves, and all the myriad bits of information technology we're becoming dependent on to remember things for us.

A couple thousand years ago, people were dedicating epics like the Odyssey and Iliad to memory among many other things, with capability of reciting these items dedicated to memory word for word.

How many people can do that today?

If anything, Human culture as a whole has decreased in its intelligence, and any judgement of past cultures with an assumption that because we have computers and electricity, and cars, and precision machines that we're smarter is a cultural bias fallacy.
No. Our ancestors were actually much smarter than we are, and they had to be.

Discounting their intelligence just because they didn't have the internet and machines to do their thinking and memorizing for them is ridiculous.

The means, ability, and motivation to create these structures was there, and no power tools were needed.
Today, yes, we'd absolutely have to rely on computers to do much of the thinking and calculations for us because we've become so handicapped in allowing machines to fill that role for us.
Otherwise, yes, we could indeed design monumental structures of prodigiously spectacular intricacy involving any number of variables, as well as fractal repetition of a uniting theme from the very small up to the large.

Look at the Taj Mahal
Who built that?
Are you familiar with the intricacies and astounding geometric precision that's gone into this structure?
Please, do some research on this astounding monument.
It is entirely possible for mere humans to achieve wonderous and awesome marvels of architecture without the help or aid of any advanced technological cultures from the stars.

If you wish to believe otherwise, be my guest.
i choose, however, to look for the most plausible and possible explanation because I refuse to be insulted, and refuse to let my ancestors be insulted by anyone who claims that we, humans, as a people, were too stupid to carry out feats and achieve the things we have indeed achieved without the help of someone, or something else.
It's insulting and undignified to say we needed help.

Granted, we have forgotten many things, but, as much as we've forgotten, we haven't needed an alien shaped crutch to get us down the road.

i'm in the camp that the Puma Punku ruins are of Terrestrial origin

perhaps the ancient civilization developed along a chemistry oriented technology instead of a machinery geared one as we have at present.

Acids could eat away granite, straight line groves could be made with cords soaked in the acid and a 'sawing' action could be used, there are other ways of producing those 'machined' looking blocks


i would suggest that the ruins are even older than the 17,000 tear ago estimate


and that massive glaciers was the cause of the many ton blocks being scattered about and some even broken as some of the blocks in the panning of the scene show... ? What force would break off big chunks of some of those 'H' shaped/interlocking blocks of sculpted granite?


instead of Aliens from distant planets, we should be looking at the accepted history of humankind and the idea that culture began in Mesopotamia at the end of the ice age some 13,000 bce


lets do research on the area in Bolivia, it was not always a windswept plateau in a dry arid landscape as it is in recorded history. A whole civilization of remote humans evolved a way of building/cutting stone which did not employ diamond tipped saws or drill bores or high pressure water with computer programmed machines to do the work...but they did employ a type of assembly-line production method to create a great supply of interlocking blocks to build the 'walls' we still see standing today.


having ETs do the work with anti-gravity ray guns and dematerializing Lasers is too easy a (cop out) answer

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
The fact that Annunaki are depicted with beards like a stone statue in Tiwanaku (when the natives of the area do not have facial hair), is a further connection of Sumeria and the South Americas.

Another user brought up a story of the area that talks about white men with blue eyes and facial hair that came to South America and gave the natives some knowledge, but Sumerians... were they even white?

the Lost Book of Enki talks about gold being exposed in S America after the Deluge. Also didn't Noah/Ziasudra have blue eyes and red hair? don't they have red haired mummies in S America?

forgot to mention: what's up with the 13,000 foot tsunami exposing that gold. I hope they mean it was from the rain that occurred AFTER the flood.

LOLZ.
ridiculous show..
the only ´proof´ of ´ancient aliens´ they show in 45 minutes is one little stone head, which should remind of modern ´greys´, which of course can easily be explained as art.

the also try to link Sitchin to it, who was completely debunked. A pain in the arse.

ridiculous attempt to mindf**k sci-fi kids.

.. the mystery of puma punku stays unexplained.

reply to post by anti72

no WE look like the guys with the beards. the grays were probably sharing the planet or maybe just vacationing here at the time. it's amazing how so many different culture through history share this image. you can't call it coincidence. well you can but you'd sound funny

Originally posted by St Udio
i'm in the camp that the Puma Punku ruins are of Terrestrial origin

perhaps the ancient civilization developed along a chemistry oriented technology instead of a machinery geared one as we have at present.

Acids could eat away granite, straight line groves could be made with cords soaked in the acid and a 'sawing' action could be used, there are other ways of producing those 'machined' looking blocks


i would suggest that the ruins are even older than the 17,000 tear ago estimate


and that massive glaciers was the cause of the many ton blocks being scattered about and some even broken as some of the blocks in the panning of the scene show... ? What force would break off big chunks of some of those 'H' shaped/interlocking blocks of sculpted granite?


instead of Aliens from distant planets, we should be looking at the accepted history of humankind and the idea that culture began in Mesopotamia at the end of the ice age some 13,000 bce


lets do research on the area in Bolivia, it was not always a windswept plateau in a dry arid landscape as it is in recorded history. A whole civilization of remote humans evolved a way of building/cutting stone which did not employ diamond tipped saws or drill bores or high pressure water with computer programmed machines to do the work...but they did employ a type of assembly-line production method to create a great supply of interlocking blocks to build the 'walls' we still see standing today.


having ETs do the work with anti-gravity ray guns and dematerializing Lasers is too easy a (cop out) answer

right.
the age is unclear and how the plateau looked about 12.000 yrs ago.
one possible explanation of the engeneered looking H-blocks and others could have been cast, too.

I love the show, but can you put up some links to where the millions of haters wrote, I'm DEVASTATED by this!

reply to post by plube


Very true, I was taught it was built by mere men. So it must have been.

I say that sarcastically.

You are right. I was thinking the other day that what makes today's biblical god more tangible then Zeus? Or titans like Prometheus, or Aries? When we even by today's standard appease the Greek gods in war and such in that respect. With all these religions and concepts of god/gods to this day. It is perfectly acceptable to believe in an Omnipotent being the creator whom is very much narcissistic and seeks to be worshiped.. playing a chess game with his subjects "Men" all the while using men as a conduit to speak to men and woman. Pitting man against man in what appears to be a personal amusement.

However to think beings other then man created monolithic structures is preposterous ?

Even with science itself finding planets in the goldie locks zone relatively near by in this neighborhood of the galaxy. If we have not invented a practical method of travel from point A to B then of course ET cant either even if it is a older species that probably thinks much different then us

The irony and double standard is so very obvious yes and I ask myself when will it end

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
reply to post by nineix

 

Coke?

I haven't forgotten about Sumeria. I've actually brought that bowl up twice (I think) in this thread but from a slightly different perspective. Seeing how their writing system is among the first that we know of, I think that what they would write is something more than fairy tales. The bowl mentions a goddess, other Sumerian text talk about the "you know whos", the epic of Gilgamesh and the flood story -- coincidentally, there is evidence of flooding at Puma Punku. So I'm not going to throw out their myths as being 100% false. They wrote something down because it was important to. The fact that Annunaki are depicted with beards like a stone statue in Tiwanaku (when the natives of the area do not have facial hair), is a further connection of Sumeria and the South Americas.

Another user brought up a story of the area that talks about white men with blue eyes and facial hair that came to South America and gave the natives some knowledge, but Sumerians... were they even white?

I fear to mention the 'C' word in association of the Coca plant due to terms of T&C in force regarding discussion of certain recreational substances.
It's a hamper here, as the involvement of such substance is relevant to the discussion, but, it can be alluded to.

As far as Sumerians coloring and plumage goes, as I understand it, they were were of all hues, including white, and brown, and darkest ebony. With hair color, they were also variable with dark hair, blondes, and even red-heads.
I mention the red heads as there's some significance there in stories about red-headed giants in the Americas. Compared to the native south and North Americans, of the time some 3000-4000 years ago, anyone standing up at 5'10, 6', or a taller 6'2, nothing really to blink at much by today's standards, would, however, be considered 'giant' where native cultures in the Americas rarely topped over the 5 and a half mark.

Thus, we've got, bearded, blonde, and red headed gods striding the land, dishing out wisdom, and instructing the peoples in all sorts of things like astronomy, math, engineering, forethought and planning, reason, philosophy and whatever else.
They were Sumerians, and to the native peoples they were gods, not unlike the initial reception the Spanish Conquest boys in their shiny armor got.
Sumerians had Shiny armor too. Armor of Bronze that shone gold in the sun.

Originally posted by St Udio
there are other ways of producing those 'machined' looking blocks

such as?

Originally posted by St Udio
i would suggest that the ruins are even older than the 17,000 tear ago estimate

why?

Originally posted by St Udio
and that massive glaciers was the cause of the many ton blocks being scattered about and some even broken as some of the blocks in the panning of the scene show... ?

when were there glaciers in Bolivia?

Originally posted by St Udio
instead of Aliens from distant planets, we should be looking at the accepted history of humankind and the idea that culture began in Mesopotamia at the end of the ice age some 13,000 bce

that's correct but remember the aliens were the guys with the beards too. they created us and throw us a bone every now and then because we're too stupid to live without fear and intolerance towards one another. Probably has to do with our primitive genes from the early human species that we are blended with.

Originally posted by St Udio
having ETs do the work with anti-gravity ray guns and dematerializing Lasers is too easy a (cop out) answer

it really IS the most rational one and answers all the questions to all the mysteries around the world. it's very simple